That sounds fine.
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The Witcher 3 - New preview details
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
That sounds fine.
SneakyStephan
Banned
See the thing is when it comes to stat point and dice roll combat there are games that do this amazingly well.
xcom and divinity original sin are amazing in this more traditional rpg combat and have super entertaining puzzle like encounter design and allow for endless experimentation and tactics.
As you say, on the realtime action combat side of things you have things like dark souls and DD
Witcher (and elder scrolls and the rest) are stuck halfway in between ,they are neither here nor there and instead of combining the best of both (which would be very difficult) they severely half ass both to the detriment of the overall gameplay and to the enjoyment I can get out of them.
This was the draw of the original dragon age origins, that they put some effort into the real time with pause top down combat mechanics and encounters.
The sequels did not, and sucked because of it.
edit: in racing games you have two approaches as well ,arcade (burnout etc) and simulation (i racing, asetto corsa, richar burns rally) , but in that genre there are games that have found a way to make the middleground work (forza horizon or project gotham to name two)
In rpgs they have not figured it out, and they really either need to figure it out, or just pick a side instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbrFIp73tbw
(lol the bunny)
the first bit can be like cock magic from south park.
Setting goals like beating some big monster 10 levels above yours isn't fun or rewarding if there isn't trinkets at the end that you can't use for next 10 levels?
lolosgolos
Banned
I actually never played DS1 with a guide or anything, never even used the sword I mentioned. Only found out about it when I was about to finish the game on a forum. One other thing Ppl must know about the Witcher is you can find ingredients and have a smith make the swords you want. In Witcher 2, there was only one important sword I got because it was for the specific quest. The rest of the weapons I had them made
Fushichou187
Member
Now I'm just wondering if I should buy physical or let this be my first digital purchase (PS4) since there's a 10% discount on the PS Store for it + the expansion pass... :\ I'm super leery of expansion passes but I also have a lot of faith in CDPR given their track record.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Well, if I'm gonna do something exceptionally challenging the reward should be something more exciting than a sword with 2% more damage than I'm currently doing. When you kill a boss in a Souls game your reward is usually progression, along with a whole BUNCH of souls that you can spend to level up and become noticeably stronger than you were before the fight. Sure, the satisfaction of beating the boss is a reward in and of itself, but that other stuff is nice too.
lolosgolos
Banned
Read the IGN Witcher Combat article and you will understand. Don't lock you vision on Souls type of item use
Richard the Lionheart
Neo Member
Its a great feature, definitely. Now I won't be so obsessive like I am in Dragon Age.
That's a strange definition of good enough and amazing you have there:
Good enough = i can use it now
Amazing = i can't use it yet (above my level)
Which means you basically can't use an amazing weapon in any video game, because amazing weapons by your definition are above your level requirement.
Some of you are forgetting few important details when raging about scaling items:
- Level cap is 60 (with the last active slot unlocked at level 50)
- Killing monsters outside of quests yields no xp
- Levelling is slow - the Russian journalist who previewed the game @ gamer.ru said that they've only hit level 2 at the end of the 3 hour demo
- Monsters generally don't drop weapons, and those who drop high-level rewards drop diagrams/crafting recipes.
- Level cap is 60 (with the last active slot unlocked at level 50)
- Killing monsters outside of quests yields no xp
- Levelling is slow - the Russian journalist who previewed the game @ gamer.ru said that they've only hit level 2 at the end of the 3 hour demo
- Monsters generally don't drop weapons, and those who drop high-level rewards drop diagrams/crafting recipes.
Majukun
Member
yeah..i would have preferred that I can equip any weapon anytime..even if it breaks the game...since i can meet enemies that would one-shot me,it's only fair that if i manage to defeat them,i get something to oneshot enemies for the foreseeable future...
oh well..I got the game for free anyway
oh well..I got the game for free anyway
And then people would be asking for guides for OP weapon locations and glitches that they can abuse to get god tier gear at level 1 making any progress design meaningless, thats not fun either. For player it gets boring quite fast and for developer it would be just work wasted.
HerroRygar
Member
I tried playing 1 and 2. 1 I didn't really enjoy at all. 2 I actually did, but for some reason never could find the time to play more than few hours. I'm considering trying to beat 2 before 3, but, eh.
3 looks amazing though. I'm confident I'll love it. Already preordered on PSN, and I'm seriously considering scheduling a vacation day on May 19th.
To you and me maybe, but I say if a player want to ruin his single player game with mods/cheats/save scumming/following a guide more power to him or her. In my experience all the developers efforts at addressing this usually end up being worse then the problem in the first place. Plus its fun for those who replay a game to be able to go back and just totally break the game wide open.
I don't get the item scaling thing. If monsters don't scale with player level, why not put appropriately leveled items behind appropriate monsters for that level?
It's not that I want the powerful item now, I just don't want them to diminish the impact of higher leveled items being in difficult dungeons. Even if I miraculously get through a dungeon or area that I shouldn't be able to and manage to snag a weapon that I can't use yet, it gives me MORE INCENTIVE to level up to want to use it. I really like the idea of that, and this saddens me that they're not going that route.
Ain't the end of the world though. It really, really doesn't matter all that much.
It's not that I want the powerful item now, I just don't want them to diminish the impact of higher leveled items being in difficult dungeons. Even if I miraculously get through a dungeon or area that I shouldn't be able to and manage to snag a weapon that I can't use yet, it gives me MORE INCENTIVE to level up to want to use it. I really like the idea of that, and this saddens me that they're not going that route.
Ain't the end of the world though. It really, really doesn't matter all that much.
Why is that weird? Its a challenge.
And loot scaling is terrible. Looks like modders are gonna have to fix the game.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Wouldn't it make more sense to let you use the item but have it scale down until you reach its level then there's no more scaling?
JeffG
Member
I always just got rid of it. When you get to level 18 you would find better stuff anyways. Never used the storage in DA:I
Yeah, in a loot game...
Exentryk
Member
1. Ideal situation: Weapons don't have any scaling or level lockout.
2. Compromise: Weapons downscale when you get them, but can upscale to full potential eventually.
3. Compromise + punishment: Weapons downscale, but stay locked at the level you get them thus nerfing them permanently.
Witcher 3 uses the third option. =/
2. Compromise: Weapons downscale when you get them, but can upscale to full potential eventually.
3. Compromise + punishment: Weapons downscale, but stay locked at the level you get them thus nerfing them permanently.
Witcher 3 uses the third option. =/
Majukun
Member
if they want to ruin the game for themselves,let them do it
it's not like this game has online battles where it matters if someone finds good weapons..or is it?
Exentryk
Member
Some people enjoy playing optimally and having an optimum save in their games. Have you heard about perfect saves?
KyanMehwulfe
Member
Haven't watched enough video previews (trying to go into it somewhat blind) but maybe some can answer:
Does the game have persistent gore, damage? So, blood that stays on your armour during cutscenes a la Dragon Age INQ... face and body scars and cuts a la Sleeping Dogs?
Not a big deal, just curious.
GravityMan
Member
I strongly disliked the way loot worked in Oblivion...once it dawned on me that loot drops depended on your level, it killed a lot of my desire to explore the world. Every ruin, cave, etc. pretty much became the same.
However, the item scaling in The Witcher 3 doesn't sound so bad, especially if it only down-scales a little bit. I don't think a default Level 20 sword that's found by a highly skilled and adventurous Lv 5 player is going to scale all the way down to Lv 5. Average skilled players probably wouldn't successfully acquire the sword until they're at or near Lv 20...they'd get their asses kicked at lower levels. As long as the GOOD loot in the world (aside from the stuff that you can only get via crafting) is only attainable by completing challenging quests or surviving areas teeming with powerful enemies, CDPR's approach to item scaling doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as Oblivion or Skyrim. Still, I don't like that they stay locked to the level you found them at, although I understand their reasoning for that.
Ideally I'd prefer no item scaling or level requirements to wield weapons or wear armor at all. Or even a system similar to how the Souls games work.
We need to keep in mind that while there's plenty of weapons and armor and stuff, The Witcher series is less loot-focused than Elder Scrolls (and obviously way less loot-focused than Borderlands).
Anyway, this item scaling, depending on its implementation, could generate a strong backlash against CDPR and The Witcher 3. Item scaling isn't really divisive...it's outright widely disliked by most hardcore gamers. If this news surfaced 6-12 months ago, then I think a lot more people would be on the fence about buying the game.
However, the item scaling in The Witcher 3 doesn't sound so bad, especially if it only down-scales a little bit. I don't think a default Level 20 sword that's found by a highly skilled and adventurous Lv 5 player is going to scale all the way down to Lv 5. Average skilled players probably wouldn't successfully acquire the sword until they're at or near Lv 20...they'd get their asses kicked at lower levels. As long as the GOOD loot in the world (aside from the stuff that you can only get via crafting) is only attainable by completing challenging quests or surviving areas teeming with powerful enemies, CDPR's approach to item scaling doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as Oblivion or Skyrim. Still, I don't like that they stay locked to the level you found them at, although I understand their reasoning for that.
Ideally I'd prefer no item scaling or level requirements to wield weapons or wear armor at all. Or even a system similar to how the Souls games work.
We need to keep in mind that while there's plenty of weapons and armor and stuff, The Witcher series is less loot-focused than Elder Scrolls (and obviously way less loot-focused than Borderlands).
Anyway, this item scaling, depending on its implementation, could generate a strong backlash against CDPR and The Witcher 3. Item scaling isn't really divisive...it's outright widely disliked by most hardcore gamers. If this news surfaced 6-12 months ago, then I think a lot more people would be on the fence about buying the game.
I don't see downscaling as such a big problem.
Let's say there is no scaling and I'm lvl 10, when I find cool 20 lvl sword with some extras, I can't use it. When I finally get to lvl 20 the sword is just OK (or meh) with some extras. Why not use it right know and just get the extras? Seems sensible to me.
But what if I find this lvl 20 sword and there is no lvl locking, then I end up with overpowered sword and I complain that the game got boring and everything is easy.
Also I don't think it will be common situation that lower lvl Geralt will be able to get so much higher level equipment, unless some glitches allow it or other fancy techniques.
It will be fine.
Let's say there is no scaling and I'm lvl 10, when I find cool 20 lvl sword with some extras, I can't use it. When I finally get to lvl 20 the sword is just OK (or meh) with some extras. Why not use it right know and just get the extras? Seems sensible to me.
But what if I find this lvl 20 sword and there is no lvl locking, then I end up with overpowered sword and I complain that the game got boring and everything is easy.
Also I don't think it will be common situation that lower lvl Geralt will be able to get so much higher level equipment, unless some glitches allow it or other fancy techniques.
It will be fine.
I got through about half? or more of Witcher 1 before I got bored with it or a new game came out, I can't remember which. Witcher 2 I didn't like at all. I think the gameplay just didn't click for me at all, and it didn't help that the beginning sucked.
Everything about Witcher 3 sounds fucking great though. So yeah, I'll be there.
Denton
Member
Right, I just find it weird that is is possible to defeat everything without leveling up. I mean, in Gothic for example you would not be able to do that at all. Witcher is more like Gothic in this regard I guess.
Though we'll see, maybe it will be possible in TW3, who knows.
universalmind
Member
Well they said you will always find upgrades as you progress, so by the sounds of it when you hit level 6 you will likely be replacing that level 20 sword with the next sowrd that drops.
The way it should be.
I think whether the scaling is an issue will depend on what type of loot you can actually get in the world. From the sound of things the really good stuff will be crafted and it doesn't seem like dropped crafting materials will scale to your level. It's possible that the game will just keep feeding you acceptable to decent weapons/armor from world drops to keep you going while the good stuff will be crafted.
zkorejo
Member
I would have zero problems with it if its like that in TW3.
Why do people think that scaling loot=loot with level requirements?
What CDPR should do is no scaling loot and no level requirements for loot. If they really want something to be hard to obtain that is good they can put it behind a high level monster or make it very expensive to buy/craft instead.
Level requirements for loot is in most cases just stupid.
What CDPR should do is no scaling loot and no level requirements for loot. If they really want something to be hard to obtain that is good they can put it behind a high level monster or make it very expensive to buy/craft instead.
Level requirements for loot is in most cases just stupid.
This. and if someone manages to cheese a high level monster early, good on him.
Exactly, more freedom to play the game the way you want. With all the talk of open worlds and freedom to go anywhere this is the biggest culprit in making games feel more linear than they should IMO.
flipswitch
Member
Am I too late to the penis party? DF face-off would've been interesting.
Looks like the only next-gen penis we're going to see is from The Order 1888 for now, unless there's the DL content in the works.
Enough of penis now,
I've never played any witcher games before, just like I've never played any Souls game before purchasing Bloodborne, so I'm coming in fresh and with my foreskin intact.
I just need to finish off Bloodborne and perhaps upgrade my HDD.
Looks like the only next-gen penis we're going to see is from The Order 1888 for now, unless there's the DL content in the works.
Enough of penis now,
I've never played any witcher games before, just like I've never played any Souls game before purchasing Bloodborne, so I'm coming in fresh and with my foreskin intact.
I just need to finish off Bloodborne and perhaps upgrade my HDD.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Interesting to see how the item scaling is handled. I hope as Geralt reaches the default level requirement, the potential of the weapon is eventually restored to its initial state?
zkorejo
Member
It wont. Once it is down scaled, it will not upscale.
All we can do is hope that the weapons wont downscale ridiculously.
A quote from Bloodsworth in the OP is comforting to read though.
Everyone's so concerned with what is probably the most ambitious game of the current generation.
Dear folks. I know you want this to be perfect, and blemishes on this otherwise spotless gem might cause for cancelled pre-orders.
But please take a quiet moment of reflection to see what it actually is you're concerned about, and have a bit of faith in developers doing what they think is best for the player.
Dear folks. I know you want this to be perfect, and blemishes on this otherwise spotless gem might cause for cancelled pre-orders.
But please take a quiet moment of reflection to see what it actually is you're concerned about, and have a bit of faith in developers doing what they think is best for the player.
The apparent lack of floppy dong in the game.
Bloodworth
Member
Clearly we're getting a better goat simulator than even Goat Simulator.
A month that will feel like a year.
TheAssist
Member
And again people go up in flames for something they havent even played yet.
Lets see how it works out. I would assume that exploring and killing high level monsters is still worth it just for the extra stats of a weapon. Maybe that weapon better fits your current playstyle, because it upgrades a certain sign or makes evasion better or whatnot.
Also, if you are able to take out all the monsters in a dungeon, your level is probably good enough for the stuff you find in the dungeon.
Someone said it before, but this game is tilted slightly into the direction of character skill. So no matter good of a player you are, some monsters will crush you and make it impossible to obtain certain gear.
Not everything has to be Souls' like.
I personally dont like getting gear that I cant wear. I had this in DA:I. I fought some crazy hard mage, got some gear that was 4 levels above mine. And leveling in that game takes a long time. So I horted that item for hours, which lead to more micromanaging of my inventory (not fun) and in the end I found something better before I was even able to equip it.
That system is as least as stupid as loot scaling.
I'll just wait and see how it works.
Lets see how it works out. I would assume that exploring and killing high level monsters is still worth it just for the extra stats of a weapon. Maybe that weapon better fits your current playstyle, because it upgrades a certain sign or makes evasion better or whatnot.
Also, if you are able to take out all the monsters in a dungeon, your level is probably good enough for the stuff you find in the dungeon.
Someone said it before, but this game is tilted slightly into the direction of character skill. So no matter good of a player you are, some monsters will crush you and make it impossible to obtain certain gear.
Not everything has to be Souls' like.
I personally dont like getting gear that I cant wear. I had this in DA:I. I fought some crazy hard mage, got some gear that was 4 levels above mine. And leveling in that game takes a long time. So I horted that item for hours, which lead to more micromanaging of my inventory (not fun) and in the end I found something better before I was even able to equip it.
That system is as least as stupid as loot scaling.
I'll just wait and see how it works.