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The Wonderful 101 |OT| Diplomacy has failed

JoeFenix

Member
Nov 17, 2005
3,580
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I don't know about the realistic blue spin-off either... I'm sure it would be a great game though so whatever works. Most of these spinoff ideas that Kamiya throws out probably won't amount to anything anyway. Someone needs to give him funding to make it happen and that's not likely to happen.
 

brandonh83

Banned
Jun 26, 2005
69,632
3
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Blue was great but only in conjunction with the other characters. I didn't like him at first but I slowly understood him and he was great in the end.
 

JoeFu

Banned
Aug 30, 2007
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0
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Blue was a jerkwad racist until he got the dosage of truth and saw how awesome of a leader Red was.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Why "realistic", though. And Blue only? Nah, stick to making new Star Fox, Kamiya

If there aren't gonna be 100 characters on the screen I need a little more definition and detail in my player character than what 101 offers.

I don't think the toy aesthetic would work as well without the 100 collectible heroes aspect as well.

It's probably never going to happen though and just Kamiya brainstorming possible sequel ideas just like any other fan.

Blue was great but only in conjunction with the other characters. I didn't like him at first but I slowly understood him and he was great in the end.

Well I mean who's to say those other characters wouldn't still be in the game in some form?
 

MilkBeard

Member
Jun 20, 2013
9,219
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Wonderful page 101 :)


Alright guys, enough gaffers showering praise got me to consider buying this game. I'm gonna stop by a store and pick it up on my way home.

One reason though, is that I just bought Pikmin 3 and I haven't played my WiiU in a while, and playing with it again made me realise how it's actually a good system with a lot of potential, and that I wanted to play more games that utilize it properly.

I'll be back with my impressions in a few days.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Sounds like he just wants to make DMC again, tbh

Lol yeah

That's kinda the reason I wouldn't want it to happen more than anything. After 101 being sort of an amalgamation of all his previous ideas, I'd personally want him to create something completely new again for his next game without borrowing so many old mechanics to flesh it out.

Tall order to ask of someone creatively I know, but that's just what I'd want to see him try.

That or a Bayonetta spinoff!
 

Hypron

Member
May 9, 2012
11,838
1
520

Since I said we should get back on topic I'll put that in spoilers.
I definitely agree with you for the most part. The Combat VR missions were challenging and really forced you to master the combat system, which I liked. Mastiffs are easy to deal with once you learn to bait their dropkicks. The non-combat VR missions really frustrated me even though they weren't as difficult. The weakest point of the game for me was the blade wolf DLC though. The stealth in this game is pretty bad and almost non existent in the main game, so why did they have to make a whole DLC around it? I s-ranked absolutely everything else in this game but this DLC was just too much for me. I got the achievements and never played it again D:.

On another note, has anyone here unlocked
Bayonetta
? I only managed to find one video on YouTube and the quality was atrocious...
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
On another note, has anyone here unlocked
Bayonetta
? I only managed to find one video on YouTube and the quality was atrocious...

I'm working on it.

Haven't been able to finish my collectable run due to exams, but I've been knocking out Platinum Paragon concurrently with it as a result.

After that everything else will pretty much fall in line as I go through the higher difficulties and Operation 101
 

Hypron

Member
May 9, 2012
11,838
1
520
Sounds like he just wants to make DMC again, tbh

Pretty much. Blue is already pretty reminiscent of Dante. I'd be totally over a game about him. But at the same time I think I'd buy anything Kamiya makes at this point.

Edit:


I'm working on it.

Haven't been able to finish my collectable run due to exams, but I've been knocking out Platinum Paragon concurrently with it as a result.

After that everything else will pretty much fall in line as I go through the higher difficulties and Operation 101

Awesome :). Let us know how
she plays once you get her
. I won't have time to play the game much for another 6 weeks :(
 

TDLink

Member
Jan 24, 2010
11,049
13
880
I agree Blue on his own would basically just be Devil May Cry again but whatever, fine by me. Like I said, I am fine with whatever Kamiya makes.

And for page 101 I just have to say one more time how absolutely amazing The Wonderful 101 is.

Best action game this year easily. Heck, I can even say (kind of cheating though) that it is the best action game of this generation!
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Awesome :). Let us know how
she plays once you get her
. I won't have time to play the game much for another 6 weeks :(

There's a video in the spoilers thread with a pretty good demonstration of her, and an accompanying description in video details

Best action game this year easily.

God yes. Although attaching that distinction is doing the game a huge disservice.

Heck, I can even say (kind of cheating though) that it is the best action game of this generation!

Ninja Gaiden 3 robbed of its default throne
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Jan 29, 2008
36,140
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Australia
Rising's combat brilliantly toes the line between challenge and simplicity, and the parry system (coupled with zandatsu) is a brilliant way to differentiate the combat system from other character action games, while also very satisfying to pull off. I thought the game was also smartly designed around parry and zandatsu, making the encounters and boss fights diverse and fun to play. Getting into a chain of parries against the heavy troops is soooo goooood.

It also has, I think, a more traditional, old school difficulty curve. Both Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101 don't leave the full raw challenge until last, and neither has a final boss that really punishes you in difficulty, as rewarding and fun as they may be. Rising, on the other had, gets progressively more and more difficult, and the final boss is a full test of mechanic mastery.

That being said, of the three Rising also, to me, feels the most incomplete and rushed. Maybe it's me projecting based on what we all know about the development history, but it does feel like a game that was pushing a long crunch, desperate to get out as soon as possible. The level design is a bit lacking, the game is quite short, and it doesn't have the weight of unlockables and tighter ideas that Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101. This is why I'm excited for what I'm sure will be Rising 2, Platinum given a full development cycle from the start, rather them salvaging a dead project from elsewhere.

The Wonderful 101 is unquestionably Platinum's biggest game. I noticed this more when I jumped into another playthrough of Bayonetta. Bayonetta is big, but The Wonderful 101 is definitely bigger, not just in game content and diversity, but in production too. It recycles less content, and where it does recycle it does so interestingly. It has ten times the mechanic diversity, and each of these is far more polished than Bayonetta's. And you just go so many places and see so many things throughout the campaign. Must have cost Nintendo a pretty penny!
 

Snapshot King

Member
Feb 16, 2008
8,710
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0
Totally agree with ya EC, only thing I'd put against 101 is the puzzle/gamepad sections. The one early in the game with you piloting the ship using buttons is just awful.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
Totally agree with ya EC, only thing I'd put against 101 is the puzzle/gamepad sections. The one early in the game with you piloting the ship using buttons is just awful.

It's easier with the pad screen in picture on the TV screen.

I'm actually surprised how well most of the sections work with picture in picture. The only problem is that menus in the bottom corner still being there when it's on your tv. As far as i know there's no way to get rid of it without the game pad and at times it can obscure button prompts.

But so far I've never had a problem with it obscuring action on the TV or vice versa. Really good design if they kept that in mind when creating those sections
 

hatchx

Banned
Jun 30, 2009
7,266
3
0
Toronto
EatChildren, I've enjoyed everyone of your posts dissecting Platinum's action games.


Totally agree with ya EC, only thing I'd put against 101 is the puzzle/gamepad sections. The one early in the game with you piloting the ship using buttons is just awful.



I quite enjoyed that section, it was crazy.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
It has ten times the mechanic diversity, and each of these is far more polished than Bayonetta's

I have no idea what this even means

and Rising always seemed more comparable to Vanquish in content to me, so I'm not sure how much that had to do with dev time.(I mean even if it was, it still had more content than Vanquish, which had a full dev cycle under an experienced director.)

So far only Kamiya's titles have been able to pump out the content on that scale. All their other titles have been on the sparse side.(I think Bayo 2 will break that pattern though)
 

brandonh83

Banned
Jun 26, 2005
69,632
3
0
38
I have to say I like Wonderful 101 more than Bayonetta, and I fucking LOVE Bayonetta.

With Bayonetta 2, PG's input on Wii U could just be absolutely legendary.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Jan 29, 2008
36,140
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I have no idea what this even means

I meant the gimmicky sections, sorry, rather than the core mechanics. Bayonetta has Route 666, the missile, and the Jeanne's motorcycle climb. Playing this again, they're pretty damn rough around the edges. The Wonderful 101 embraces the idea of gimmicky gameplay segments to a greater degree over Bayonetta, has a wider diversity of these, and each also plays a lot better than Bayonetta's motorcycle and missile stages. To me, anyway.

Not that I'd expect that kind of design from Bayonetta, mind you, which focuses a lot more on the core combat system (much like Rising). But it was more a point of how big The Wonderful 101's production must have been, to not go "we're going to put in two gimmick stages", but instead pack the game full of them.
 

JoeFenix

Member
Nov 17, 2005
3,580
0
0
Rising's combat brilliantly toes the line between challenge and simplicity, and the parry system (coupled with zandatsu) is a brilliant way to differentiate the combat system from other character action games, while also very satisfying to pull off. I thought the game was also smartly designed around parry and zandatsu, making the encounters and boss fights diverse and fun to play. Getting into a chain of parries against the heavy troops is soooo goooood.

It also has, I think, a more traditional, old school difficulty curve. Both Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101 don't leave the full raw challenge until last, and neither has a final boss that really punishes you in difficulty, as rewarding and fun as they may be. Rising, on the other had, gets progressively more and more difficult, and the final boss is a full test of mechanic mastery.

That being said, of the three Rising also, to me, feels the most incomplete and rushed. Maybe it's me projecting based on what we all know about the development history, but it does feel like a game that was pushing a long crunch, desperate to get out as soon as possible. The level design is a bit lacking, the game is quite short, and it doesn't have the weight of unlockables and tighter ideas that Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101. This is why I'm excited for what I'm sure will be Rising 2, Platinum given a full development cycle from the start, rather them salvaging a dead project from elsewhere.

The Wonderful 101 is unquestionably Platinum's biggest game. I noticed this more when I jumped into another playthrough of Bayonetta. Bayonetta is big, but The Wonderful 101 is definitely bigger, not just in game content and diversity, but in production too. It recycles less content, and where it does recycle it does so interestingly. It has ten times the mechanic diversity, and each of these is far more polished than Bayonetta's. And you just go so many places and see so many things throughout the campaign. Must have cost Nintendo a pretty penny!

Mostly agree with everything here, although I will say that you're definitely not projecting. The game was clearly rushed and could have really benefited from more time in the oven. This was a ridiculous schedule they were working with, I think Saito and P* did an amazing job considering the circumstances.

I also really appreciate Rising for it's unique mechanics, like I've said before, it's not the deepest action game out there but there is definitely alot to master. It's not a total complete package like 101 and Bayonetta but it's still a really kickass and unique action game. So much untapped potential for a sequel!

With regards to the minigames/gimmick sections in W101 compared to the ones in Bayonetta you are spot on. The ones in Bayonetta were quite frankly pretty terrible, they would have been bland and tolerable if they were shorter but they had nothing interesting going on and went on for way too long. I appreciate the homage and they were novel at first but in the end they were easily the weakest part of the package. On the other hand those sections in 101 have alot of thought put behind them and do a good job of mixing up the action. They're pretty much all decent fun to play and getting a good score on them forces you to discover that they have a surprising amount of nuance and depth. The
SMHUP section in 6-B had ALOT of cool things going on. You have options like in Gradius and you can set them to different formations depending on your current unite morph. You can grab the power ups by extending a wonder-liner. You have a shield in the form of the pudding counter. You have a neutral dodge that gives you alot of I-Frames. Then you figure out you can use different morphs to kill certain enemies much faster. It's all really good stuff. I could go on about the Dakaar drill section in 5-B in the same way, keeping the combo going through all of it was really fun!
 

TDLink

Member
Jan 24, 2010
11,049
13
880
Totally agree with ya EC, only thing I'd put against 101 is the puzzle/gamepad sections. The one early in the game with you piloting the ship using buttons is just awful.

That was one of my favourite gamepad moments. In fact, that part where you have to simultaneously play on both screens was the moment where I finally understood how the gamepad can open up new possibilities in terms of gameplay. The only bad part about it is that there weren't a couple more sections like it.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
I meant the gimmicky sections, sorry, rather than the core mechanics. Bayonetta has Route 666, the missile, and the Jeanne's motorcycle climb. Playing this again, they're pretty damn rough around the edges. The Wonderful 101 embraces the idea of gimmicky gameplay segments to a greater degree over Bayonetta, has a wider diversity of these, and each also plays a lot better than Bayonetta's motorcycle and missile stages. To me, anyway.
.

Ok. I agree with that. I think the mini-games are alot more fun and have alot more depth in 101 than in Bayo. Easily.(Gradius and Punch Out sections are fantastically designed.)

but I don't think they didn't try to make them fun in Bayonetta. I just think they were alot less experienced as a studio at the time and that was just one of the ways that manifested itself in the game. (having the camera spin when you dodged during Space Harrier was a dumb decision, on top of length issues)

If anything I think 101 is the game it is because of lesson's learned from Bayo
 

TnK

Member
Jun 2, 2013
2,489
0
0
fuck my friends. no one will listen to me about this game.

OK GO PLAY SOME MOBILE SHIT, HAVE FUN

Show them the game, not just tell them about it.

The Wonderful 101 is unquestionably Platinum's biggest game. I noticed this more when I jumped into another playthrough of Bayonetta. Bayonetta is big, but The Wonderful 101 is definitely bigger, not just in game content and diversity, but in production too. It recycles less content, and where it does recycle it does so interestingly. It has ten times the mechanic diversity, and each of these is far more polished than Bayonetta's. And you just go so many places and see so many things throughout the campaign. Must have cost Nintendo a pretty penny!

When I first went through W101, it felt like they had spent more money and time on it compared to Bayonetta. You'd think with a game like this, Nintendo would have spent more on its marketing. Why Nintendo did not properly market this game is beyond me.

If this game bombs (it most probably did), is it possible for us to see a sequel? Or will Nintendo simply shrug it off and say the game does not sell?

One of the reasons that I think this game did not do well is its reveal. I remember the game's trailer was on GameTrailer.com after E3 as if the game was not important. With a game this big, you would think Nintendo would show it in their conference. Bah, I am really salty at Nintendo right now.....this should have been Wii U's system seller.
 
D

Deleted member 125677

Unconfirmed Member
Page 101 for 50-posts pr page bros.

Champagneallovermynakedbody.gif
 
Oct 1, 2006
34,016
1
0
Kamiya himself said he is working about 10% on Bayonetta 2 as a supervisor but he is there for the most critical elements of the game.

I don't even think he needs to be around but you know he's not going to let his "baby" go unwatched.
 

D-e-f-

Banned
Apr 28, 2012
7,973
0
0
Germany
Kamiya himself said he is working about 10% on Bayonetta 2 as a supervisor but he is there for the most critical elements of the game.

I don't even think he needs to be around but you know he's not going to let his "baby" go unwatched.

Kamiya loves to watch dem cute babes. Bayo is his personal cute babe. You can bet he watches over her :p
 

popyea

Member
Aug 24, 2012
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www.popyea.tumblr.com
Regarding the last boss,
is that part after the Virgin Victory smashes into Jergingah and makes him spin around all stunned a reference to anything? I got major deja vu when I first saw it.

Also, my avatar is strangely reminiscent of him. Blocky looking wondermask and all.
 

D-e-f-

Banned
Apr 28, 2012
7,973
0
0
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51 if you have a premium account.

Should be obvious which one's superior now ;)

edit: OH NO!

I BROKE IT! :( sorry

 

Forever

Banned
Jul 7, 2010
6,717
0
0
He was the producer of the first game, I'm pretty sure that we have nothing to be worried about.

Metal Gear Rising was directed by the lead programmer of Bayonetta and that turned out wonderfully, I'm sure Bayonetta 2 will deliver. Platinum hasn't done wrong in the action genre yet.
 

Roto13

Member
Dec 5, 2008
26,051
1
820
Uhm, I need help here... how do you make the geath circles appear ? I'm on mission 3 and I haven't seen any of them.

Sometimes they're squirrelled away in hidden places. Other times they appear in places you've already been if you backtrack after certain points, which is kind of annoying and dumb.
 

Vyse24

Member
Sep 13, 2009
1,534
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0
Brooklyn
Sometimes they're squirrelled away in hidden places. Other times they appear in places you've already been if you backtrack after certain points, which is kind of annoying and dumb.

Yeah I hated that in Bayonetta and I hate it here more. It's worse when they have a stipulation to having them appear like
in 004-B, you have to hit the elevator buttons with the Unite Claw before it appears near the beginning of the area.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
Mar 5, 2006
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critical-gaming.com
Gota say. The 1 to 2 frames of lag on my HD TV really hurts me sometimes. In those instances, Off Screen Play is BRILLIANT!! A-1, the 18-wheelers falling from the sky. With a couple frames of lag I cry "how am I supposed to play this part". Same section on Off-Screen, my reactions are so clean it feels as if I'm skipping right over those slow, complex processing parts of my brain and tapping straight into my high speed fight or flight functions. Feels good.
 

PKrockin

Member
Sep 6, 2010
8,249
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0
Gota say. The 1 to 2 frames of lag on my HD TV really hurts me sometimes. In those instances, Off Screen Play is BRILLIANT!! A-1, the 18-wheelers falling from the sky. With a couple frames of lag I cry "how am I supposed to play this part". Same section on Off-Screen, my reactions are so clean it feels as if I'm skipping right over those slow, complex processing parts of my brain and tapping straight into my high speed fight or flight functions. Feels good.

Don't hold Y and time will slow down just before they land giving you tons of time to react.

But, yeah, HDTV lag is awful and sometimes I think the lower resolution is worth it.
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
Feb 17, 2005
15,982
26
1,675
45
Gota say. The 1 to 2 frames of lag on my HD TV really hurts me sometimes. In those instances, Off Screen Play is BRILLIANT!! A-1, the 18-wheelers falling from the sky. With a couple frames of lag I cry "how am I supposed to play this part". Same section on Off-Screen, my reactions are so clean it feels as if I'm skipping right over those slow, complex processing parts of my brain and tapping straight into my high speed fight or flight functions. Feels good.
Same reason that makes FIFA 13 a joy to play on the GamePad.
 

Neiteio

Member
Nov 10, 2007
54,436
6
0
I think I'll start this tonight, now that my PS3 has pooped itself out and my GTAV playthrough is on hold.

WONDER-TITS, REPORTING FOR DUTY.