Awesome. I'm currently going slowly with mine and plan on shopping it around later this year early next year. Nano this year will be interesting for me hah.
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The Writing-GAF Mega Thread
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Awesome. I'm currently going slowly with mine and plan on shopping it around later this year early next year. Nano this year will be interesting for me hah.
bengraven
Member
I was thinking of someone like Jim Beaver telling this. I just picture some man who's "seen it all" and remained well-read.
That said, yeah, it will have more of the latter and less of the former. It was rough.
Those of you aspiring to get your books out there - good luck. I'm going to be releasing my second novel in the next few months, so I'm pretty hyped over that.
I'll be happy once this trilogy has been completed so that I can move onto my next project. I kind of have writer ADD in that every time I start a project I'm already thinking about the next one.
I'll be happy once this trilogy has been completed so that I can move onto my next project. I kind of have writer ADD in that every time I start a project I'm already thinking about the next one.
bengraven
Member
I just really need to write more. I always tell myself I'm a great writer and that I can't wait to wow people with what I'm going to write. Then I actually put "pen to paper" (so to say) and it's just really...not what I wanted to convey.
Need to get back into my workshop, though honestly it wasn't very good. I read something out and the leader said, "yes, gut, also change "bread shop" to "bakery"...next!". We didn't really have the time for actual discussion of our stories.
Need to get back into my workshop, though honestly it wasn't very good. I read something out and the leader said, "yes, gut, also change "bread shop" to "bakery"...next!". We didn't really have the time for actual discussion of our stories.
You need to join a critique group. That'll help you develop the confidence you need.
bengraven
Member
I think you're right. I've seen a few in the area online, but their meeting times or criteria have made it difficult. I may be moving much farther away soon, to a larger city, so I'm sure I could find that community.
I think for me it's that I've been "writing" (at least conceptualizing visually) for nearly 30 years now, since I made a little flip book story at 3. And every few years I get a bump where my writing style changes and becomes better and my concepts become better, but my voice is the issue. I don't have a voice. No one reads a Ben Graven story and goes "oh I know who wrote this".
Well, I take it back. "Ben Graven" is actually an old pen name and a character from all of the novels/stories I wrote in my early 20s. It's not my real name (spoilers!). So if you see "Ben Graven" in a story, you know that Ryan/I wrote that.
If you have a tough time making the local ones, try CritiqueCircle. I've suggested it several times in this thread, but I don't think anyone has yet taken it up. I've been a member for 6 years now and I wouldn't be where I am today without the members of that site.
Also, I figured that wasn't your real name - I don't know too many gaffers that parade around their real name on here.
tiggerkiddo
Member
I need to get back to writing some original fiction. I think I have an idea narrowed down but I'm not satisfied so I'm writing fanfiction to work on my craft until then. I need to find people who can critique my writing but sadly the story I'm working on isn't finished so I'm not sure if they go for that.
I plan to as soon as I have a completed draft. Since recent changes have made me essentially throw out that last quarter of the novel that's still a little ways out.
bengraven
Member
If you have a tough time making the local ones, try CritiqueCircle. I've suggested it several times in this thread, but I don't think anyone has yet taken it up. I've been a member for 6 years now and I wouldn't be where I am today without the members of that site.
Also, I figured that wasn't your real name - I don't know too many gaffers that parade around their real name on here.
I'll definitely register and check the community out tonight. This is nice:
"Secure posting
Only members of CC can access stories. Authors can restrict access even further and delete their stories at any time."
I also just assumed once my first draft (technically second draft since I'm re-writing 85% of the sketch I made for NaNo), I would just send a copy to some of you guys.
I actually signed up a while back, just haven't bothered doing the single critique I'd need to post my first thing yet. The challenges and my other writing group take up most of my read/critique brainspace.
bengraven
Member
Speaking of which, I need to get back to them. However, the last few months, every time I come up with a great idea that fits the theme, I'm too late.
I'm still bitter about missing the "Other Side" a few weeks ago (not really bitter, just playing around). I had a really fun Robert Bloch-inspired, Stephen King-twinged story for that. I may still write it. Maybe for the 100th challenge.
Yeah, none of the stories you post on CC are archived in google or anything like that. They keep everything private, plus there's private queues you can setup and invite people to if you want to post stories more frequently.
No worries, I know how that goes. When you get some spare time, though, I recommend giving it a whirl. Just pick a story, spend a half hour or so doing a critique and then post a chapter or short story. I think you'll be happy with the results.
bengraven
Member
http://www.pixartouchbook.com/blog/2011/5/15/pixar-story-rules-one-version.html
Someone tweeted this today, though it's a year old.
It's how Pixar boils down their stories and is pretty interesting. I'll just copy/paste it here. Some of them are things I will start doing.
Someone tweeted this today, though it's a year old.
It's how Pixar boils down their stories and is pretty interesting. I'll just copy/paste it here. Some of them are things I will start doing.
Those tips from Pixar are really interesting, and insightful. A few of them I've already been doing, I guess subconsciously or because I just naturally developed it as a habit over time.
When I was younger (in High School) I used to write a lot. Eventually I just stopped writing, however I never stopped developing stories and worlds in my head. I'm also an artist, so I draw quite frequently and visually develop ideas as well. Here and there through college I wrote short works just to develop small ideas (one shots, if you will), but it has been years since I ever wrote anything substantial.
I have a few ideas that I think are really good, some more developed than others. Some I feel would fit better into other media, though, just based on how I developed the idea over time. I have a few that I would love to turn into graphic novels, a few that I would love to write about, and one that (if given the chance some day) would love to actually turn into a game. Each of them actually span different genres of fiction, as well.
The few that I want to write about I actually want to begin sometime soon. One of my graphic novel ideas is fairly simple, so I can continue to develop that on the side as well.
I'll definitely be looking into Critique Circle, thanks for posting that! Many years ago I was a member of another writing site that helped immensely in my development, so I look forward to delving into that community a bit.
When I was younger (in High School) I used to write a lot. Eventually I just stopped writing, however I never stopped developing stories and worlds in my head. I'm also an artist, so I draw quite frequently and visually develop ideas as well. Here and there through college I wrote short works just to develop small ideas (one shots, if you will), but it has been years since I ever wrote anything substantial.
I have a few ideas that I think are really good, some more developed than others. Some I feel would fit better into other media, though, just based on how I developed the idea over time. I have a few that I would love to turn into graphic novels, a few that I would love to write about, and one that (if given the chance some day) would love to actually turn into a game. Each of them actually span different genres of fiction, as well.
The few that I want to write about I actually want to begin sometime soon. One of my graphic novel ideas is fairly simple, so I can continue to develop that on the side as well.
I'll definitely be looking into Critique Circle, thanks for posting that! Many years ago I was a member of another writing site that helped immensely in my development, so I look forward to delving into that community a bit.
Ether_Snake
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I'm facing a big problem.
The story, without going into details, deals with a specific religion being "true", but it also indirectly makes it an antagonistic religion from the point of view of the protagonist since he rejects the idea of submitting to a seemingly irrational belief system.
Currently it is Judaism, but it could be Islam or Christianity if I changed the plan a little a bit too. I feel it works much better with Judaism, it's like a big light bulb lights up when you find out about it, and it also makes it far more likely that the reader would feel conflicted about accepting this concept or rejecting it, while if it is Islam most readers would reject it, and if it is Christianity it screws up other aspects of the story (nothing that can't be fixed though) and feels a bit boring and angry-teenager-rant to be honest.
Problem? Saying the OT God is the real one makes it sound anti-Semitic, since the protagonist clearly resists submitting, so it makes Jews and those who convert look like antagonists. I mean, this isn't a story where God is all nice and tries to make people understand that he loves them. This is Old Testament God, he doesn't fuck around. But you know OT God, someone who doesn't accept him would see him as evil.
I thought of making the protagonist Jewish to help a bit, it actually makes it more interesting, but I can't imagine a single Jew, even if not religious, who would not be awed by the return of God to Earth and the confirmation that the tribes are the chosen people and Israel his "home".
And even if he was an atheist-Jew, it wouldn't change the impression that the story is anti-Semitic anyway because of the confrontation the protagonist has to deal with. It would just be seen as thinly veiled anti-semitism.
If I make it that the true God is Allah, then it makes the story sound like an Islamophobia rant (the way society would work in a post-judgement day world, according to Islam, is very different from Judaism, which has more of a happy ending and "people keep living normally, but with God" vibe, once you get through the war and conversion part), and the confrontation becomes too one-sided, the reader won't be conflicted about rejecting submission. It works better than Judaism only if I take such a non-conflictual approach, since Islam means submission, etc. It's too in-your-face to my liking, I wouldn't enjoy writing it, it would feel cheap.
Am I really gonna have to make it Christianity, just cause no one cares about picking on Jesus?
And yes, I could say that the true religion was some dead religion like Greek Mythology or better yet Babylonian/Sumerian, but the problem becomes like the Islam issue, it becomes easy to say "fuck that shit we're not submitting to that lol". The other solution I have, which would change a lot of things but not the overall theme or ending, would be to make it unclear, like having the hero find out God has come back to Earth without being able to get the details on what exactly is happening (might be away from Earth, whatever). But it would force me to fill a big "new" gap, have the hero be away from Earth so I'd have to create some environment for the story to take place, and since we never find out clearly what the religion really implies, it outright kills the reader's personal conflict in accepting or rejecting God.
tdlr; Old Testament God is real, protagonist rejects the idea, makes the story sound anti-Semitic
The story, without going into details, deals with a specific religion being "true", but it also indirectly makes it an antagonistic religion from the point of view of the protagonist since he rejects the idea of submitting to a seemingly irrational belief system.
Currently it is Judaism, but it could be Islam or Christianity if I changed the plan a little a bit too. I feel it works much better with Judaism, it's like a big light bulb lights up when you find out about it, and it also makes it far more likely that the reader would feel conflicted about accepting this concept or rejecting it, while if it is Islam most readers would reject it, and if it is Christianity it screws up other aspects of the story (nothing that can't be fixed though) and feels a bit boring and angry-teenager-rant to be honest.
Problem? Saying the OT God is the real one makes it sound anti-Semitic, since the protagonist clearly resists submitting, so it makes Jews and those who convert look like antagonists. I mean, this isn't a story where God is all nice and tries to make people understand that he loves them. This is Old Testament God, he doesn't fuck around. But you know OT God, someone who doesn't accept him would see him as evil.
I thought of making the protagonist Jewish to help a bit, it actually makes it more interesting, but I can't imagine a single Jew, even if not religious, who would not be awed by the return of God to Earth and the confirmation that the tribes are the chosen people and Israel his "home".
And even if he was an atheist-Jew, it wouldn't change the impression that the story is anti-Semitic anyway because of the confrontation the protagonist has to deal with. It would just be seen as thinly veiled anti-semitism.
If I make it that the true God is Allah, then it makes the story sound like an Islamophobia rant (the way society would work in a post-judgement day world, according to Islam, is very different from Judaism, which has more of a happy ending and "people keep living normally, but with God" vibe, once you get through the war and conversion part), and the confrontation becomes too one-sided, the reader won't be conflicted about rejecting submission. It works better than Judaism only if I take such a non-conflictual approach, since Islam means submission, etc. It's too in-your-face to my liking, I wouldn't enjoy writing it, it would feel cheap.
Am I really gonna have to make it Christianity, just cause no one cares about picking on Jesus?
And yes, I could say that the true religion was some dead religion like Greek Mythology or better yet Babylonian/Sumerian, but the problem becomes like the Islam issue, it becomes easy to say "fuck that shit we're not submitting to that lol". The other solution I have, which would change a lot of things but not the overall theme or ending, would be to make it unclear, like having the hero find out God has come back to Earth without being able to get the details on what exactly is happening (might be away from Earth, whatever). But it would force me to fill a big "new" gap, have the hero be away from Earth so I'd have to create some environment for the story to take place, and since we never find out clearly what the religion really implies, it outright kills the reader's personal conflict in accepting or rejecting God.
tdlr; Old Testament God is real, protagonist rejects the idea, makes the story sound anti-Semitic
Pixar's rules are great. Here's some more that were forced out of Barry Hannah.
Also, in reply to Ether_Snake, don't worry about your story being offensive to anyone. Never compromise. I would read what you have going there. I would never read what you had to do to avoid criticism.
Mike Works
Member
Explain to me how the religion is "true"? Does God literally appear and confirm his existence? Does this "trueness" convert staunch atheists? How?
It's a little difficult to tackle the "which religion should be the right one" until you work out these details.
edit: Basically I'm not sure why a person would reject a religion if it's proven to be the only one that could get you into heaven or whatever. You could have the character reject it on a very strong moral ground (ie God says you can only have sex once in your life if you want to get into heaven, or you must kill anyone who doesn't believe in this religion), but if God showed up tomorrow and said, "Hey Mike and the rest of GAF: the only way you can have eternal life is if you go to church on Sundays," I'm pretty sure I'd be going to church on Sunday.
It's a little difficult to tackle the "which religion should be the right one" until you work out these details.
edit: Basically I'm not sure why a person would reject a religion if it's proven to be the only one that could get you into heaven or whatever. You could have the character reject it on a very strong moral ground (ie God says you can only have sex once in your life if you want to get into heaven, or you must kill anyone who doesn't believe in this religion), but if God showed up tomorrow and said, "Hey Mike and the rest of GAF: the only way you can have eternal life is if you go to church on Sundays," I'm pretty sure I'd be going to church on Sunday.
Ether_Snake
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Yeah I'm telling myself that, and maybe once it's all written down, a reader wouldn't necessarily get the impression I had in this regard.
Well did you ever read the OT, especially Ezekiel, or even The Book of Enoch (not part of the OT as we know it today, but likely once regarded as canon)? Imagine that the OT God comes back to Earth, Israelites are the chosen people, Israel the home of God, etc. That God is not going to negotiate. He protects his people, and kills off all those who come to attack them. The rest of the world can and does (some of them at least) end up living in peace with Israel and basically from there on it's peace and even the lion does not eat the gazelle.
But before you get to that end point, imagine the implications. Would most people accept this god? A god who says "Do as I say or die!"? A god who asks for seemingly irrational customs to be followed to the letter, etc.? Today, or even in the future (story actually takes place in the future, so secularism is even more common)?
I'm sparing some details as to the nature of God. It is never spelled out that YES, this is really "God", as in the only God, creator of the universe, but it is clearly the "god" of the OT. It's important in the story to never confirm the nature of this "god", it's a pillar to keep it a conflict for the protagonist (and the reader), to be unable to ever know with certainty (ties in to faith). It's not a religious story actually, it's more sci-fi. I'm avoiding going in the details, I'll add more later if necessary.
But the point remains: you have a God that sends his angels into cities and wipes out humans, piles up the bodies of the unfaithful and those who reject him and who fight against Israel, etc. Really bloody stuff as expected (and described) in the OT. Imagine seeing that happening. And meanwhile, where God has been accepted, you see this post-war world, where people go to the temples and pray and seem to live in submission and a sort of collective stasis, for peace. There is no cinema, no restaurants, no bars. It is the life of lambs and a shepherd (the lambs are not eaten though
).Edit: I'll clarify things tomorrow, must go to bed. Remember it's not a religious story, it's sci-fi, with potential Gnostic undertones, but I say potential because I never want to clearly say that the OT god is not God, it's essential not to answer that question.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
I don't think you want to get involved in that mess. Religious people are not known for their great sense of humor. I don't think they even have one, to be honest. Having some entity claim itself "to be god" is quite a bit different from the god that was written and rewritten and proclaimed to a people to be "theirs", to be quite honest.
If anything, your main figure here seen from the OT perspective is the Sat-an, the questioner, the critic / sceptic, that sort of person. His refusal of JHWH would be similar to the concerns of the "Satan" (which is derived from a Hebrew word which has a completely different meaning from what Christians have made of it) in relation to JHWH's claims.
The book of Job in particular comes to mind as a direct result of Jehova trying to prove a point (and a very nasty one at that). If you wanted to make a similar case in your story (there is no shortage of drama here, after all), it would become very hard for anyone to 'like' this god and you would have to move very carefully as to what you ultimately want this entity to be.
I would suggest creating sufficient doubts and flaws on its part to allow readers to think that this entity could surely not be god, yet at the same time remain close enough to the source material to suggest that it might be anyway. Just not the "real real one", if you know what I mean.
The real question of course, is what makes those Sat-an character(s) so different from everyone else that this 'god' does not just kill them outright while claiming them to be unbelievers. There has to some kind of motivation to why this god cannot just do these things. After all, while religions may thrive on religious criticism (according to some), there are very fine lines to thread while making such criticism heard.
And what happens when "angels" are destroyed by the unbelievers? (in a materialist fiction, and certainly one where god is not perfect and a character, this is a likely result)
Does the god entity win this war, validating itself as the 'true' god, or does something occur that changes things and instantly (this is important to realize) demotes him to "not-god"?
I just learned that a short story of mine has been called 'sacrilegious'. Yay for god as a character!
(honestly I don't give a fuck since I'm not religious, but you might, and that's where you need to make some tough choices in how you want people to not just read it, but also reflect in part, back onto you. This can't be avoided unfortunately, considering the primary antagonist. I would follow the 'don't compromise' line, but if you are yourself even a little religious, it's not all that easy. Good luck either way. )
If anything, your main figure here seen from the OT perspective is the Sat-an, the questioner, the critic / sceptic, that sort of person. His refusal of JHWH would be similar to the concerns of the "Satan" (which is derived from a Hebrew word which has a completely different meaning from what Christians have made of it) in relation to JHWH's claims.
The book of Job in particular comes to mind as a direct result of Jehova trying to prove a point (and a very nasty one at that). If you wanted to make a similar case in your story (there is no shortage of drama here, after all), it would become very hard for anyone to 'like' this god and you would have to move very carefully as to what you ultimately want this entity to be.
I would suggest creating sufficient doubts and flaws on its part to allow readers to think that this entity could surely not be god, yet at the same time remain close enough to the source material to suggest that it might be anyway. Just not the "real real one", if you know what I mean.
The real question of course, is what makes those Sat-an character(s) so different from everyone else that this 'god' does not just kill them outright while claiming them to be unbelievers. There has to some kind of motivation to why this god cannot just do these things. After all, while religions may thrive on religious criticism (according to some), there are very fine lines to thread while making such criticism heard.
And what happens when "angels" are destroyed by the unbelievers? (in a materialist fiction, and certainly one where god is not perfect and a character, this is a likely result)
Does the god entity win this war, validating itself as the 'true' god, or does something occur that changes things and instantly (this is important to realize) demotes him to "not-god"?
I just learned that a short story of mine has been called 'sacrilegious'. Yay for god as a character!
(honestly I don't give a fuck since I'm not religious, but you might, and that's where you need to make some tough choices in how you want people to not just read it, but also reflect in part, back onto you. This can't be avoided unfortunately, considering the primary antagonist. I would follow the 'don't compromise' line, but if you are yourself even a little religious, it's not all that easy. Good luck either way. )
Write what you consider to be true, or alike to the truth. So far your justifications, one way or another do not, to me, demonstrate, a good grasp of the material you are claiming to write from.
What do I know really? But you don't want to be a historian who can only name a handful of emperors. Research is key. If you are writing from the Jewish viewpoint, but criticising the Jewish god like an outsider, it may ruin the authenticity of the storytelling.
What do I know really? But you don't want to be a historian who can only name a handful of emperors. Research is key. If you are writing from the Jewish viewpoint, but criticising the Jewish god like an outsider, it may ruin the authenticity of the storytelling.
Ether_Snake
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It will be clear to the reader that the entity really is the same entity described in the OT. It will not be clear to the reader what this entity really is in the universal sense.
The story implies that the last time God was around, something happened that caused him to to end up working on borrowed time. It's clear to the reader that God cannot or does not want to intervene too much (the extent remains blurry to the reader, gives me lots of margin). The fact he was working with limited time is why he left, but has now finally returned, as he knew he would one day, and this is important to explain why he needed "a people" among all of the people of the Earth.
Might as well explain what actually happens to some extent: God was overseeing two humans (Adam and Eve), but shit happened and the creatures multiplied. God put his watchers in charge, because there was too many people to deal with. The goal was to make sure all humans would continue to worship him, so that when he would return thousands of years later, he would not be in a position of confrontation with what would likely be a much more advanced race than they were at the time. That is the point of "worship"; to be welcomed as God on his return, with open arms, rather than be welcomed as a space-invader-thing, with a nuke to the face.
But it didn't work, humans worshipped the Watchers, saw them as gods, etc., tried to outdo each others in feats (Sumerians/Babylonians/Tower of Babel, etc.). God was angry with the work of the Watchers and the impact on mankind's development, caused the flood to try and start things over with limited numbers of humans again. Old problems arose again over time, and God said "fuck it, I can't control all of mankind, it doesn't work, it only leads to problems and too much micro-management, there's no way they'll still be worshipping me on my return, their in-fighting will lead to enlightenment and rapid advancement and the rejection of God(s)". So he chose to make himself "a people among the people" who would worship him until his return, he would just really put more effort to make sure they would be likely to still be worshipping him even if he had to leave for a long time, and since they would be exclusive they would naturally be more likely to "try to survive/maintain their beliefs", especially if he provides them with an ever-lasting "promised land". That way he could ignore the rest of mankind, and simply keep these ones as his people, regardless of how the others would behave. It would be up to them to try and survive and keep their faith, but it was the best plan according to his goal. So upon his return, while most of Earth might see him in a confrontational manner, there would still be a people waiting for him. He'd just have to get rid of the others, or ask them to fall in line. To him this is the better alternative, rather than risk war with all of mankind on his return and having to start ALL over again.
That's the writer's perspective I'm explaining, my intention is not to make this obvious to the reader, as to me it's vital that the reader wonders if the protagonist is really doing the right thing. A lot of details (God's plan, etc., are not mentioned here).
The main question of the book, in a way, is "An existence of immortality in submission, or a mortal life with freedom?". The hero chooses the later, but he and the viewer must wonder if ultimately it really was the best decision. The hero ends up leaving into the "void of space", which is the reminiscent of the rejection of God, or the equivalent of choosing hell. But is it really hell, or actually heaven, figuratively speaking? Hell = void, away from god, emptiness. But space also represents the sky, the stars, hence heaven?
That's the gist of the story. There are more parallels of the sort but that's the idea. And the overall decision the protagonist has to take, in a way, is a true exercise of faith, since the consequences of his choice are unknowable.
No worries, I'm really summing up things quickly here. There is a margin of error in terms of what the OT says and what really happened, since in my book the OT was still just written by humans, and is not an actual recording of past events, just a written account from the perspective of those who wrote it, but a relatively good indication of what happened from a human perspective.
bengraven
Member
BTW, befriending and/or hitting on cute and published urban fantasy writers is a great strategy to have someone owe you favors for when you need to market your book.
Add me to your Critique Circle when you do because I haven't found a writer who matched my backstory as well as you do - especially all the bolded. You're my clone.
I think you already found your answer. There are plenty of Jewish born folk who don't follow the doctrines and are atheists now and who's to say one or two might still reject Je when he returned?
I think this would also be a fantastic idea for a novel, because rejecting your own kind is something fascinating to me.
As for the controversy, I understand how you feel. I had a similar issue in the past, though I honestly can't remember it now. I think I just chose not to use it and if it had been a great enough idea, I would have stuck with it.
Awesome, thanks for these. When it comes to story, Pixar is one of my most trusted to put out a clean, nearly flawless narrative. I would love to write a novel that "feels" like you're watching a Pixar film.
And of course Ghibli, since the standards of Pixar are someone a reflection of Ghibli's influence.
Add me to your Critique Circle when you do because I haven't found a writer who matched my backstory as well as you do - especially all the bolded. You're my clone.
I think you already found your answer. There are plenty of Jewish born folk who don't follow the doctrines and are atheists now and who's to say one or two might still reject Je when he returned?
I think this would also be a fantastic idea for a novel, because rejecting your own kind is something fascinating to me.
As for the controversy, I understand how you feel. I had a similar issue in the past, though I honestly can't remember it now. I think I just chose not to use it and if it had been a great enough idea, I would have stuck with it.
Awesome, thanks for these. When it comes to story, Pixar is one of my most trusted to put out a clean, nearly flawless narrative. I would love to write a novel that "feels" like you're watching a Pixar film.
And of course Ghibli, since the standards of Pixar are someone a reflection of Ghibli's influence.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Had a rough review tonight with the writing group. My chapter needed help. Too wordy, too... wandering. I got it to do what I wanted it to do, but the road getting there was too long and winding.
The group called me on it pretty good.
So...
Sigh.
I have a 789 page novel that needs trimming. So the scissors come out. Doesn't feel a lot like writing at the moment. Feels like cutting and bandaging.
The group called me on it pretty good.
So...
Sigh.
I have a 789 page novel that needs trimming. So the scissors come out. Doesn't feel a lot like writing at the moment. Feels like cutting and bandaging.
bengraven
Member
I have to stop world building. I'm having a ton of fun building multiple worlds though. I have a fantasy world, a traditional horror fantasy world, a ghost story/fantasy YA world, at least two sci-fi worlds (and I don't write sci-fi, only for GAF), and two different dystopian worlds.
Oh and then there's the world in the ACTUAL novel I'm writing, which I've probably "world-built" the least of, since I wanted it to be very low low fantasy and more historically correct. Maybe I should turn my attentions to the novel's world instead of making another place to rest my head each night.
But the problem is, as the Pixar bits remind me continuously, I don't have a very cohesive plot for almost any of them. Oh I have two or three great plots, but which world would the plot fit or should I just create a world around the plot is my next issue.
Example, I actually came up with a great plot over the last three days. A great story bringing in some themes and scenes I've thought about and written down over the last 10 years. And this plot I decided should get it's own world - I didn't WANT to world build it. I know it will be slightly post-apoc, slightly sci-fi (backwater planet, think Borderlands 1, very soft sci-fi), but as much as I love building worlds, I want to let the story be first priority. I have the story, I have several characters. I know it's going to be sad and it's going to be funny. I know that it's going to be pretty cool and probably the most mainstream thing I'll ever write. I know it's going to be my first female lead in 7 years. My first black lead, ever. My first actual sci-fi novel. And probably the first YA book I ever fully commit to.
Maybe I'll just bang out the story over the next few weeks in between fantasy/western writing and I'll have two books half done. And then I can go back and do actual world building for both.
I think you'd be excused for not wanting to write at the moment. Not only because of the obvious toll that being told the harsh realities may take, but because you've already written quite a bit.
And now I feel guilty for not writing every single day. ;/
Oh and then there's the world in the ACTUAL novel I'm writing, which I've probably "world-built" the least of, since I wanted it to be very low low fantasy and more historically correct. Maybe I should turn my attentions to the novel's world instead of making another place to rest my head each night.
But the problem is, as the Pixar bits remind me continuously, I don't have a very cohesive plot for almost any of them. Oh I have two or three great plots, but which world would the plot fit or should I just create a world around the plot is my next issue.
Example, I actually came up with a great plot over the last three days. A great story bringing in some themes and scenes I've thought about and written down over the last 10 years. And this plot I decided should get it's own world - I didn't WANT to world build it. I know it will be slightly post-apoc, slightly sci-fi (backwater planet, think Borderlands 1, very soft sci-fi), but as much as I love building worlds, I want to let the story be first priority. I have the story, I have several characters. I know it's going to be sad and it's going to be funny. I know that it's going to be pretty cool and probably the most mainstream thing I'll ever write. I know it's going to be my first female lead in 7 years. My first black lead, ever. My first actual sci-fi novel. And probably the first YA book I ever fully commit to.
Maybe I'll just bang out the story over the next few weeks in between fantasy/western writing and I'll have two books half done. And then I can go back and do actual world building for both.
I think you'd be excused for not wanting to write at the moment. Not only because of the obvious toll that being told the harsh realities may take, but because you've already written quite a bit.
And now I feel guilty for not writing every single day. ;/
AngmarsKing701
Member
Thanks. Part of the other problem is that this group has about 10-12 members. So my stuff only gets reviewed maybe once every other month. So it's a verrrrrry sloooooow process to get feedback.
bengraven
Member
Yep, that's the issue I had at my workshop. But also we had a very strict time limit. Our leader was an old man, a survivor of the Nazis and the Russians both and didn't have a lot of time to sit and talk to us about our stuff. It was literally, "Yes, yes, ferry gut, ferry gut, next".
I think just getting that feedback is a huge plus for you.
And as was said earlier, maybe you should also look into the online critiques circles. You'll still have that valuable F2F time with your local group, but also get faster feedback between sessions.
I do the same thing. It's wonderful to think of all kinds of different places and worlds for characters to inhabit, I just have absolutely no idea what the hell the characters do in the world. I wish I had more of a knack for drawing, since I clearly like making places more than stories.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
I purposely do everything I can to avoid world-building.
What did the toilets look like in the cantina on Tatooine, considering all the fucked up alien species that are there?
Yeah, I want to avoid putting thoughts to that
bengraven
Member
It's what I do every night before going to bed and during the day while sitting and chilling with my kid. He's on the carport coloring with chalks and I'll just sit and zone out and think of weird aircraft flying around a Lovecraftian dimension.
I wish I could make maps, but even my roughly sketched maps actually hinder me. I find limiting yourself to working inside a world's laws is fun, but once I draw something I always feel like I took away some of it's potential. I know it's odd, but it feels like I lessen a place by drawing it out.
I purposely do everything I can to avoid world-building.
What did the toilets look like in the cantina on Tatooine, considering all the fucked up alien species that are there?
Yeah, I want to avoid putting thoughts to that
Thanks, now I'm thinking of multi-species toilets in backwater cantinas. I picture a large, tiled shower with three large black PVC pipes sticking ominously out, above is open air covered only by a loose bantha skin that flaps in the dusty breeze, letting in the hot Tattooine sun.
But I will say that I never did do much world building. It wasn't until I turned 30. I think having a kid and not getting as much time to watch films or play games, instead finding lots of time to read and plot and write changed things.
Reading I started to wonder what was all in the valley Sam and Frodo and Pippin were looking at on top of that hill on their way to Farmer Maggot's or what the total makeup of pure blue ice, gritty ice, dirt, errant sticks, etc in The Wall was when Jon was sitting there talking to Benjen.
It could also be that I started reading much more imaginative writing with much better and much more high concept and clever worlds, which made me want to make them.
bengraven
Member
You know, I had some very pulpy ideas in the last 6 months. As frightened as I was that my "wizard of the wild west" (holy shit, new title suggestion? ) idea was, I had some great plans for worlds that really reminded me of turn of the 20th century pulp stories. As if I were Doyle or Wells or later Lovecraft or Howard.
I'm thinking my ideas are ridiculous, but then I was reading Harry Turtledove's bibliography. Some of his ideas are more ridiculous than mine, but he's still churning out BOOKS UPON BOOKS every. single. year about these crazy ideas. And yes, Turtledove is one of the reigning kings of the airport novel, but he's also well respected by his legions of fans.
So maybe my crazy ideas aren't so bad.
So soon expect me to talk about Hickok in Space, Dinosaur Barbarians, and the second colonization of America in another dimension.
) idea was, I had some great plans for worlds that really reminded me of turn of the 20th century pulp stories. As if I were Doyle or Wells or later Lovecraft or Howard.I'm thinking my ideas are ridiculous, but then I was reading Harry Turtledove's bibliography. Some of his ideas are more ridiculous than mine, but he's still churning out BOOKS UPON BOOKS every. single. year about these crazy ideas. And yes, Turtledove is one of the reigning kings of the airport novel, but he's also well respected by his legions of fans.
So maybe my crazy ideas aren't so bad.
So soon expect me to talk about Hickok in Space, Dinosaur Barbarians, and the second colonization of America in another dimension.
"wizard of the wild west" (holy shit, new title suggestion?
Make the villain a woman, and call it "The Wicked Witch of the Wild West."
bengraven
Member
In all seriousness, though, I have considered doing something with WoO and the wild west, set in Kansas 1890.
You don't even want to know how embarrassingly large my binder of Old West ideas is. I think I've made it obvious I want the genre back in other posts, but you have no idea how far I'm willing to go...NONE...
For all y'all's info: Writing Challenge #100 is a go. Anniversary extravaganza!
"The alarm went off at the same time of every day, 7:00AM. Dwayne Ericsson opened his eyes while stretching over his bed. After some focusing on the ceiling he pressed the SNOOZE button in his holographic alarm clock. By his side Sancho Villa, his gray cat, meowed and pressed itself by his right thigh.
“You are up early,” the young man whispered to the cat. Sancho just yawned back at him.
The curtains in the apartment opened automatically a second later, showing off a third floor view of New York City."
OK Writing-GAF, I've made it a point that I want to write. I WILL write this summer, but I just want a very short and honest review of that (short) snippet I posted. Its basically the introductory paragraph of something I am writing.
Have at it. Tell me what I am missing, what I need, etc. I feel its rigid but I want some external input. Any would be appreciated!
“You are up early,” the young man whispered to the cat. Sancho just yawned back at him.
The curtains in the apartment opened automatically a second later, showing off a third floor view of New York City."
OK Writing-GAF, I've made it a point that I want to write. I WILL write this summer, but I just want a very short and honest review of that (short) snippet I posted. Its basically the introductory paragraph of something I am writing.
Have at it. Tell me what I am missing, what I need, etc. I feel its rigid but I want some external input. Any would be appreciated!
Too many subordinate clauses. You end a sentence with one (while stretching...) and start the new one with one (After some focusing...). Simplify your sentences. You don't need to directly tell me Sancho Villa is a cat and have him meow in the same sentence. He meowed. Of course he's a cat. Again for emphasis: simplify your sentences.
Etrian Oddity
Member
I can't believe I haven't participated in this thread.
I'm not penning any fiction or stories, but I do have about four scholarship essays to write this summer. They're going to be really boring for anyone to read, but if anyone actually enjoys proof-reading or peer-reviewing I'll probably come back around when they're done.
I'm not penning any fiction or stories, but I do have about four scholarship essays to write this summer. They're going to be really boring for anyone to read, but if anyone actually enjoys proof-reading or peer-reviewing I'll probably come back around when they're done.
I need to do the same, so I wouldn't mind proof-reading essays, especially if they can help me identify some of my own mistakes.
Mike Works
Member
Here's a very quick edit of your stuff Relix just to show you how much things can be contracted. Here's the original and the edited side-by-side:
As for that last sentence, it could have a lot more (or at least needs more following it). Give us a strong image of what you see, instead of saying a third floor view of NY (which will automatically give us an image of current-day NY).
This is the stuff I want to see. Thanks a million guys. English isn't my primary language so its hard, but I prefer to write in it. Once again, thanks!
Ok I rewrote that opening following the suggestions. I am basically rewriting a story I wrote years ago and that I believe is time to pick up and do something serious, and I want to set the tone and style good since the beginning.
Is that better? Thanks a bunch Writing GAF
Is that better? Thanks a bunch Writing GAF
A friend of mine is doing a writing-related Kickstarter. Head over and contribute if it tickles your fancy.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cgronlund/hell-comes-with-wood-paneled-doors
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cgronlund/hell-comes-with-wood-paneled-doors
I'll never put money in for something like that.
Mike Works
Member
Why does he need money to launch an ebook?
My guess is that it's an attempt to make a quick buck after his failure the first time around. It mentions in the kickstarter that it's a "relaunch" which is kind of ridiculous for an ebook. He probably had little to no sales, and so hopes that with this kickstarter he can rake in some easy cash (since the book will probably have the same results the second time).
Plasticine
Member
This is a great thread, so I thought I'd join in.
I've been writing for a long time, and even took a few creative writing classes while I was in college. I focused on short stories before moving off to screenplays. About a year ago I decided to return to fiction, and recently self-published my first novel. It's called LIVE UNDEAD and is a real nasty story about a vampire rock band. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087TFO8O/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I'm currently working on my second novel, which is shaping up to be a nasty piece of work in its own right. Unfortunately it's been going slower than I anticipated, so I'm sure I'll pop in here to vent every so often. I hope to publish it in September, but I'm not sure how likely that is at this point. So maybe October?
Thanks for such an awesome thread!
I've been writing for a long time, and even took a few creative writing classes while I was in college. I focused on short stories before moving off to screenplays. About a year ago I decided to return to fiction, and recently self-published my first novel. It's called LIVE UNDEAD and is a real nasty story about a vampire rock band. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087TFO8O/?tag=neogaf0e-20
I'm currently working on my second novel, which is shaping up to be a nasty piece of work in its own right. Unfortunately it's been going slower than I anticipated, so I'm sure I'll pop in here to vent every so often. I hope to publish it in September, but I'm not sure how likely that is at this point. So maybe October?
Thanks for such an awesome thread!
Plasticine
Member
Professional editors aren't cheap -- they can range from $300 - $500 depending on the length of your novel and the amount of work required. Toss in some professionally designed cover art ($100 - $200) and some ads on various Kindle sites and you've just burnt through that $750 without breaking a sweat.
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