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The Xbox Series X has a big DRM problem | Modern Vintage Gamer

M1chl

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We've been here over this, this is my take on the video, which I wrote on youtube channel, because he is not here

Well I, to be honest, this video has huge inconsistencies , you have 2 Series consoles, you have one PS5. Make sense that PS5 is home console by default, so that means that's why you are able to launch the digital games without an issue. If you would have 2 consoles, it would be the same deal as on Xbox, well to a degree worse, because PS5 does not allow you to play on second console on any other profile, than where you bought it, on Xbox, you can sign in to 2 accounts at the same time (non-home Xbox) and play it on other profile. The non-launching Xbox games (X1 games) digital on the xbox is that, the Xbox pulls the config files after the initial launch, dumb yes, scummy not really. The worst offender are the physical discs, but that's due to lenient policies as to what you have to have on disc. And with X1 games, the emulation is done in software, with Sony is done with OS layer (and HW), there isn't probably any good way to go around this, because if the config files (and maybe some other larger files) would be in OS updates, people would bitch that it's sucking too much of HDD space. Not saying that it's ideal, but how would one go around this.

But I understand the concern.

Was this present on Xbox One as well? I’m all digital on Xbox, so wasn’t aware of this.
Well X1 ran natively, so one of the issue was not present.
 
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jroc74

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Welp.

Seems MS's BC, Smart Delivery is also a gift and a curse....

I have said before I can at least appreciate the way Sony does it because its crystal clear whats PS4 and PS5.
 
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rickybooby87

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Frustrated World Cup GIF


"Smart Delivery"
 
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jroc74

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That Xbox one planned DRM sneakily put back.
It never left.

Having both a PS4 and XBO last gen, all MS did was get rid of the controversial parts of the orig policies.

On the XBO doing a license transfer from a disc to digital game is seamless. I did with tis Watch Dogs disc to the Games with Gold version.

On PS4, AFAIK you had to redownload the entire game. Not sure if its still that way.

Deleting a game update in progress would delete the entire XBO game, not sure if this is still that way. PS4 its still separate.

I'm at the part where he's talking about Returnal. And yup, I have skipped the past few updates for that game. And I can still play it. But I cant do any of the game's online stuff. Sony is a lil more flexible when it comes to this.
 

Shubh_C63

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Wow how these console reviewers missed that.

Need Internet at first time console boot - Understandable.
Need Internet at old gen title boot - I can live with that
Need internet for digitally bought game boots - Wtf, if true that's a huge deal breaker.
 

pasterpl

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So in summary, you need to be online to play;
  • any disc based games from previous generations (og Xbox, 360 and xbone)
  • most (all?) disc based games with smart delivery (physical copy with both xbone and xbseries logos), disc probably contains only xbone version
native xbseries games can be played and installed without the internet connection
 
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harmny

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It's 2021. If you can't connect to the internet you have bigger problems than not being able to play Xbox games.

I don't care what anyone says. I've been a pc (and console. But pc is 100% digital) gamer from a third world country all my life. If I was able to do it anyone can do it.
 
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dcmk7

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Here we go…..also who the fuck plays offline.
It's a good job there is at least one company out there (not sure what Nintendo does) who does care about offline players.

Can't imagine it would very difficult for MS to turn it off. Let's hope they do.

Very anti-consumer. You should be able to play the games you own, no matter where you are.
 

harmny

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I'd like to talk to you about our lord and savior gog.com <3

(on topic: This isn't a new thing, it's not the best press but it's hardly unprecedented - DRM is a valid thing, even if it's anti-consumer. I really enjoy clicking through all the loading screens and ads in PC Witcher 3)

Gog Is digital. The 0.1% offline console gamers won't like it
 

lh032

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Here we go…..also who the fuck plays offline.

Majority of people online 24/7, but that doesn't mean you should be online to be able to access your video games, that makes no sense at all.
Having the technology does not mean you have to use it if it doesnt benefit.

Must be online 24/7 to access live service online games? sure.
But single player games? hell no.
 
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Fredrik

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Wow how these console reviewers missed that.

Need Internet at first time console boot - Understandable.
Need Internet at old gen title boot - I can live with that
Need internet for digitally bought game boots - Wtf, if true that's a huge deal breaker.
Yeah. While I have an internet connection 99.99999999% of the time I have been without internet at certain times, like when I moved to a new house and it took 3 months until we got fibre and I had to do internet sharing through the phone just to pay bills etc.
I’m guessing this is just a quick ping to the servers though? A few kilobytes tops? So internet sharing on the mobile should work here as well. But it’s still bad. They better not close down any servers, ever.
 

Bumblebeetuna

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Half the video is him discussing not being able to launch digital games offline on a console that isn’t his home console. Why would you be able to do that? If you could play those games with no connection, people could buy the game on an account and then let anyone download the game on that account on their own console and play it offline. On his actual home Xbox console those digital titles would load offline just fine.

Idk why BC titles require an internet connection to finish installing but as he says it’s probably some config files.
 

TLZ

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It's 2021. If you can't connect to the internet you have bigger problems than not being able to play Xbox games.

I don't care what anyone says. I've been a pc (and console. But pc is 100% digital) gamer from a third world country all my life. If I was able to do it anyone can do it.
Really?
 
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Valedix

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Half the video is him discussing not being able to launch digital games offline on a console that isn’t his home console. Why would you be able to do that? If you could play those games with no connection, people could buy the game on an account and then let anyone download the game on that account on their own console and play it offline. On his actual home Xbox console those digital titles would load offline just fine.

Idk why BC titles require an internet connection to finish installing but as he says it’s probably some config files.
I mean he shows you can launch digital games offline on a PS5...
 

SlimySnake

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Morally and ethically suspect. But unless you are living in Antarctica, this shouldnt be a big deal.
 

M1chl

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Cliffs for people that don't like watching videos?
This basically

Xbox dev here.

Some very precise clarifications when installing various types of content from discs
- OG Xbox/Xbox 360. Need to be online to install as the disc is just a key that allows you to download the game and emulator (same as on Xbox One).
- Xbox One games. Need to be online one-time during install to download specific config files (separate from actual game patches).
- Smart Delivery games. Depends on how much is actually on the disc; if the X|S version is on the disc, then can install offline, but if it is a stub only, then the Smart Delivery portion is delivered as an upgrade patch. This does a hybrid install using bits from the disc and bits from Xbox Live.
- Native X|S games. Can install offline.

-Oscar

+ some non-understanding of Home console

I mean he shows you can launch digital games offline on a PS5...
On your home one, same with Xbox.
 
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Fredrik

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Half the video is him discussing not being able to launch digital games offline on a console that isn’t his home console. Why would you be able to do that? If you could play those games with no connection, people could buy the game on an account and then let anyone download the game on that account on their own console and play it offline. On his actual home Xbox console those digital titles would load offline just fine.

Idk why BC titles require an internet connection to finish installing but as he says it’s probably some config files.
He had problems with some games even after setting the console to be his home console, Ori and the Will of the Wisps for example.
 

rob305

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Need internet for digitally bought game boots - Wtf, if true that's a huge deal breaker.
I really like MVGs videos, but this was a bit disingenuous. He was game sharing his games and didnt have his xbox set up as home xbox. When you have your xbox set to your home xbox your digital games work fine. I'm game sharing with a friend of mine and when my internet goes out I can still play the games my buddy purchased digitally while i'm offline. The Playstation works the same way, only difference is that when you lose your internet, the xbox kicks you out of the game instantly and the playstation gives you 20min before kicking you out.

The smart delivery games forcing you to be online on the series x seems like an oversight, good on him for pointing that out and im sure it will be fixed eventually. Regular Series X games work fine offline when installed from disk
 

Robb

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Yeah this stuff sucks and makes me hesitant to ever purchase a game for the system tbh. It's absolutely crazy to me that I would not be able to play some of these games offline.

When it comes to Xbox I'll probably just go all out on GamePass and purchase the games I actually want to keep elsewhere.
 
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Spukc

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may i also remind the people when you can't play a game you legally bought on your own xbox.
But you still want to. Then piracy will become the better option.. That is pretty damn stupid tbh.

Takes me back to using cracked exe's on PC because the legal way was more hassle. To play the copies of games i owned.
 

jroc74

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So in summary, you need to be online to play;
  • any disc based games from previous generations (og Xbox, 360 and xbone)
  • most (all?) disc based games with smart delivery (physical copy with both xbone and xbseries logos), disc probably contains only xbone version
native xbseries games can be played and installed without the internet connection

This basically

Xbox dev here.

Some very precise clarifications when installing various types of content from discs
- OG Xbox/Xbox 360. Need to be online to install as the disc is just a key that allows you to download the game and emulator (same as on Xbox One).
- Xbox One games. Need to be online one-time during install to download specific config files (separate from actual game patches).
- Smart Delivery games. Depends on how much is actually on the disc; if the X|S version is on the disc, then can install offline, but if it is a stub only, then the Smart Delivery portion is delivered as an upgrade patch. This does a hybrid install using bits from the disc and bits from Xbox Live.
- Native X|S games. Can install offline.

-Oscar

+ some non-understanding of Home console


On your home one, same with Xbox.

Yeah, but this answers some thing some of us got into a huge debate with someone about:

Smart Delivery games that are just the XBO version on disc. Things get fuzzy when its downloaded from the store.

All Smart Delivery games dont contain the Series versions on disc or in 1 download, despite what some ppl think. Some will have to be downloaded to the correct platform. All this came up recently in a debate about game size and compression.

And this all points to some of the cons about Smart Delivery and the way MS's does BC. Its a good thing, but it can easily be confusing.
 
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Dane

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We've been here over this, this is my take on the video, which I wrote on youtube channel, because he is not here



But I understand the concern.


Well X1 ran natively, so one of the issue was not present.

So technically it seems that the Xbox One BC layer is working almost exactly as the same from the Xbox 360 BC, with the diffrence is that you download the required stuff as opposed to the whole game for the 360. I don't think it's a good idea, but didn't know that Series X only games could actually be installed offline. It's an akward thing, which is why i support the removal of the online necessity if possible.
 
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harmny

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may i also remind the people when you can't play a game you legally bought on your own xbox.
But you still want to. Then piracy will become the better option.. That is pretty damn stupid tbh.

Takes me back to using cracked exe's on PC because the legal way was more hassle. To play the copies of games i owned.

To pirate games you need an internet connection
 
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M1chl

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So technically it seems that the Xbox One BC layer is working almost exactly as the same from the Xbox 360 BC, with the diffrence is that you download the required stuff as opposed to the whole game for the 360. I don't think it's a good idea, but didn't know that Series X only games could actually be installed offline. It's an akward thing, which is why i support the removal of the online necessity if possible.
Yeah you are right, that the difference is smaller file. It is an awkward thing, however the issue is that solving this issue pose challenges, which sucks, but they are or how to put it.
 
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Three

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Half the video is him discussing not being able to launch digital games offline on a console that isn’t his home console. Why would you be able to do that? If you could play those games with no connection, people could buy the game on an account and then let anyone download the game on that account on their own console and play it offline. On his actual home Xbox console those digital titles would load offline just fine.

Idk why BC titles require an internet connection to finish installing but as he says it’s probably some config files.
On xbox there are a bunch of games it doesn't matter if it is your home console or not it will not launch.
 
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Dane

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Yeah you are right, that the difference is smaller file. It is an awkward thing, however the issue is that solving this issue pose challenges, which sucks, but they are or how to put it.
IIRC you also need to be online, or at least in your phone to configure the xbox for the first time, and well, the harsh truth is that no one wanted to play online only because of server issues as seen in diablo and ubisoft games, but hadn't been from that, wouldn't surprise me if people accepted it, after all, imagine that almost every or every console went online at least once and the big majority is mostly online. Nowadays with all their markets having internet 24/7, people would just accept at least an online instalation process just like PC Gamers do with steam.