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[Projectjustice]

Framerate is very crappy. Overall the game just runs slow and clunky.

I really dont like the fact that I cant collect cars and hook them up like in Saints Row.

Clothes selection seems limited compared to Saints Row.

Niko on foot controls suck. I still have to keep slapping the A button to run when I have a analog stick. I hate how he turns, its like im on a bike but Im foot!

I dont like that I cant stick up a store at gun point or hold someone for randsom when you highjack their car.

The driving takes a while to getting used to and I blame the framerate of the game. You feel like you are going 10mph cause of the overall speed of the game but in game you are doing 70mph. Thus the breaking sucks cause you are so off on your judgment of the speed you were traveling at. They need to add a speedometer to the HUD whenever you enter a vehicle.

Im enjoying the game but Im not having as much fun as I did when I first played Saints Row.

 

[Scotch]

Most of these are already mentioned, but here goes:

- Press button to run. Such a TERRIBLE design decision. It means you can't look behind you (pressing rightstick) when running, and also that when aiming down your weapon while running you can't look around unless you have three thumbs. Stupid, stupid, stupid. It amazes me that the people who created this beautiful world with all this attention to detail are the same people who wouldn't notice such a flaw.

- Controlling the helicopter with four shoulder buttons. The triggers just aren't suited for middle fingers.

- Camera while driving is shit. After dozens of hours of play I find myself constantly adjusting the camera while driving because it's too low and I can't see traffic properly. Now that I think about it, I did the same in San Andreas, so it's an old problem.

- Melee combat is awful. Which is probably why not many missions ask you to use it. Even San Andreas had better melee combat, not to mention The Warriors.

- Coversystem is useless. Because there is a delay in shooting when behind cover, it's more effective to just crouch behind cover manually.

- Slight button press for free-aim doesn't work that well. But at least they give you the option to turn off auto-aim altogether.

- Scripted chase missions. Really, Rockstar, this is not why I play sandbox games.

- There is not enough to do in Liberty City. Apart from pool, darts and bowling, there's not enough other activities to do besides driving/shooting/flying. There's a theme park, a golf course, basketball courts, etc, they could've put some little minigames in them.

- It's missing a lot of toys from the previous games. No planes, tanks or chainsaws? Come on.

- Framerate is poor. I don't mind the occasional pop-in, or hiccup, or ugly texture here and there, as long as the framerate is stable, but it isn't.

- Maintaining friends is not fun. Picking up and bringing home the girls makes sense, but the guy-friends should be able to drive themselves. It would save a lot of time if you could just meet at a bar, and not having to worry about bringing them home afterwards.

- Radiostations have too many news and commercial breaks. Keep that stuff to the talkradio station. The commercials are funny once, then become annoying.

I could probably go on and on, there so many little things wrong with this game. And I still love it.

 

[Ceb]

You just explained why you suck at driving. Slow down before the turn, take the turn easily. If you understeer, you went in too fast. I hardly ever spin the car unless I want to or play badly.

I can't begin to imagine how a lot of you would do on Driver.

I find that this careful style of driving doesn't work well for chases though.

 

[Juice]

Well, most of the new stuff in SA (territories, the gyms, getting hungry and having to eat) should be skipped as they suck.

Agreed. I kind of liked being able to control the musculature of my character, but I think getting polish elsewhere was worth it being cut.

 

[Mooreberg]

My main problem is the crappy 2D on screen map that doesn't really account for depth or elevation in a 3D world. There will be those arrows in the icons trying to tell me that something is above me when it is right in front me. Characters I'm escorting will tell me I'm losing somebody in a chase even though I can still see the vehicle. This isn't exclusive to this game, the maps in BioShock drove me nuts, as did the grenade icons in COD4. Developers need to start coming up with a better way of telling you what is going on in a full 3D world. Metroid Prime was not my favorite game ever but it had a perfect map system, I wish more games had something like it.

did GTA fuck up custom soundtracks? almost every 360 title when playing custom soundtracks stop when you get to a cutscene. GTA just lets the music play over the cutscene forcing me to stop my music.

come on R*.

Do custom soundtracks start and stop as you get out of a vehicle or it just keeps playing? How did this feature get worse than it was last gen? :-\

 

[R0nn]

The one thing, besides the classic GTA annoyances, that I can't get over is what's been said a million times by now; where the fuck are all the minor evolutions the series has gone through? Why does this game completely skip over VC and SA as if they never existed? I'm loving what's actually in GTA4, but I'm hating how much that isn't there.

GTA used to get a free pass due to all the random stuff they'd throw at you. They didn't fix all the problems because they were busy adding mini-games and shit. Now, we're left with all the usual problems, but none of the add-ons.

Hmmm I dunno about this:

- Boats are still in (VC)
- Helicopters are still in (VC)
- Clothing is still in, though less expansive (SA)
- Eating is still in without the RPG bullshit (SA)
- Climbing is still in (SA)
- Minigames are still in and improved upon (SA)
- Swimming is still in (SA)

- Training and gaining/losing weight is gone, but was a stupid chore anyway (SA)
- Gang/turf wars are gone, which is too bad (SA)
- Car customization is gone, but did that really add anything? (SA)
- Hairstyles and tattoos are gone (SA)
- All the crazy shit like basejumping and jetpacking is gone, but would that really fit in here? (SA)
- The countryside is gone, but that was mostly a boring wasteland anyway and wouldn't really fit into the current setting (SA)
- Burglary is gone, which would've been cool in this game (SA)
- Bikes are gone, blegh (SA)
- Planes are gone, bah (VC)
- Buying and owning properties is gone, which is too bad (VC)

Did I miss anything? To me, most of the cool stuff they kept in and there are only a few things missing which should've been there, this being a sequel and all. But they also added lots of stuff:

- Euphoria physics
- Improved AI (mostly subtle, but it's there)
- More complex damage model
- Bigger scope and scale
- Dates and friends
- Internet
- TV channels
- Customizable cellphone
- Dynamic news on the radio
- New police system
- Cab system
- Jumping across building rooftops
- Far more peds activities and interactions
- Different outcomes for certain missions
- Shooting people inside cars (that's new right?)
- Public transport
- Cover system and better shooting mechanics (though still room for improvement)
- Being drunk
- The ability to crouch (or was this included in SA too?)
- Online multiplayer

That's quite a lot if you ask me. So I think Thaedolus is right, this is indeed everything a sequel should be. What are these classic GTA annoyances btw? I'm under the impression that they either fixed or at least improved upon most of the problems the previous games had. You are further into the game than I am, so maybe you can enlighten me.

I could probably go on and on, there so many little things wrong with this game. And I still love it.

It's basically the same as with Mass Effect. At least to me it is.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

I haven't heard anything about cheat codes. They're still there, right?

 

[koam]

So far

The good:
- Graphics are way better
- GPS system rocks
- You can get to the other cities before you're supposed to (granted this was also possible in san andreas)
- City has more variety
- The new cop star system is fantastic
- New decision making system is neat
- Flying out of the car is cool
- Physics are way better
- Radio stations are "funnier"
- Pedestrians are more intelligent
- Cops don't beat the shit out of you for no reason, they actually just point the gun at you and you can choose to run
- Water looks amazing
- Locking on to other cars is pretty neat

The bad:
- Controls for some vehicles is terrible
- Running controls suck, fighting feels broken
- The car doors close automatically for some reason now (what happened to doors that stay open or having your driver close them?)
- Default settings for brightness suck ass
- No more bikes
- Radio songs don't compare to the first three games (yes even gta3)
- Voice acting, especially the women (michelle i'm looking at you) is attrocious
- Can't customize your character as much as SA
- No countryside ?
- Ammunation where are you? (maybe i haven't made it far enough)

 

[R0nn]

Voice acting, especially the women (michelle i'm looking at you) is attrocious

What? I really dig the voice acting. It's overacted sure, but that's part of what makes this GTA. It's supposed to be somewhat over the top. To me the VA is much better than nearly any other game out there.

Ammunation where are you? (maybe i haven't made it far enough)

I believe I read on some ingame website that Ammunation shops are getting closed because guns are being outlawed.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Oh, there's a reason why this game is so bare boned compared to San Andreas, but it isn't a good one. It's the EA/Madden method of managing new releases in a franchise -- when the first next gen version of the franchise comes out, strip out about 75% of the features that were in the last game so you can then add them in for each new sequel.

Or it could be that nobody really liked that crap in the first place.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Oh, there's a reason why this game is so bare boned compared to San Andreas, but it isn't a good one. It's the EA/Madden method of managing new releases in a franchise -- when the first next gen version of the franchise comes out, strip out about 75% of the features that were in the last game so you can then add them in for each new sequel.

Having worked in game dev it doesn't work as easily as you think. When you create a new engine it isn't as simple as just plugging in what worked last gen. Things break or change radically when you switch code bases and it often requires a ton of time to get them back working if not re-engineering them completely. Not to mention some choices were likely made just because they were deemed not to fit the focus of the current title.

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

Aiming is so broken in this game. I've died multiple times now because the autoaim doesn't work. I'd say the gun/hand to hand combat is the worst outta all the Gta's. I feel like playing San Andreas just so I can actually shoot someone without hassle.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Aiming is so broken in this game. I've died multiple times now because the autoaim doesn't work. I'd say the gun/hand to hand combat is the worst outta all the Gta's. I feel like playing San Andreas just so I can actually shoot someone without hassle.

God no. Where are you stuck? The best advice I can give is to take it slow and easy.

 

[Dabanton]

Aiming is so broken in this game. I've died multiple times now because the autoaim doesn't work. I'd say the gun/hand to hand combat is the worst outta all the Gta's. I feel like playing San Andreas just so I can actually shoot someone without hassle.

Crackdown still has the perfect shooting system free aim or lock on.

Simple and easy i can target head,body,arms or legs why is that so hard R*?

Why force me to fight with the controls?

Really.

 

[NinjaFridge]

The motorbikes are terrible, like trying to control a 70mph turd on 2 wheels

 

[aku:jiki]

Hmmm I dunno about this:

- Boats are still in (VC)
- Helicopters are still in (VC)
- Clothing is still in, though less expansive (SA)
- Eating is still in without the RPG bullshit (SA)
- Climbing is still in (SA)
- Minigames are still in and improved upon (SA)
- Swimming is still in (SA)

Helis are still in, but we lost airplanes! I know the excuses; no use for them, no place to land, blah blah. Who cares? SA taught me the wonders of crashing planes into skyscrapers or just going as high as possible and skydiving. I want to do it again, and I couldn't give less of a shit if there's no runway for me to land on. I don't think anybody else cares either, honestly.

- Training and gaining/losing weight is gone, but was a stupid chore anyway (SA)

Never understood this complaint. My CJ never got fat if I didn't exercise or anything like that. It was just a nice little feature to change my character after 20 hours of play, for me.

- Gang/turf wars are gone, which is too bad (SA)

Yes. Turf wars were great. They don't fit in with GTA4 thematically, but what did we get instead? Nothing!

- Car customization is gone, but did that really add anything? (SA)

It made you care about cars and wanting to work to keep your favorite. I was looking forward to them stealing from Saints Row and having an "infinite" (50 cars in SR) garage where you can always pick up your pre-modded cars. Instead we got the same old shit where you're always looking for a decent car and are stuck with shitty ones most of the time.

- All the crazy shit like basejumping and jetpacking is gone, but would that really fit in here? (SA)

It didn't fit into SA! Straight gangstaz from the hood aren't known for their passion for extreme sports and neither are slavic criminals. It would've fit in fine in GTA4 if it fit in SA.

- The countryside is gone, but that was mostly a boring wasteland anyway and wouldn't really fit into the current setting (SA)

It was also the most atmospheric place in the game, and riding along a coastal highway at sunset with the right radio station blaring is one of my best memories of GTASA.

Plus, it offered optional ways of getting around. You could take the train, a car, a bike or a plane between each city. All you have in GTA4 are narrow bridges and the subway. The countryside made getting around less boring, as there were always places you hadn't passed through often if you wanted some variety.

- Burglary is gone, which would've been cool in this game (SA)
- Bikes are gone, blegh (SA)
- Planes are gone, bah (VC)
- Buying and owning properties is gone, which is too bad (VC)

All of these removals really suck. Especially buying property, as it would've fit in perfectly in this game.

Did I miss anything?

Several things, I think. My favorite that you forgot was driving the god damn train in GTASA. Useless? Yes. Awesome? Yes.

- Euphoria physics
- Improved AI (mostly subtle, but it's there)
- More complex damage model
- Bigger scope and scale
- Dates and friends
- Internet
- TV channels
- Customizable cellphone
- Dynamic news on the radio
- New police system
- Cab system
- Jumping across building rooftops
- Far more peds activities and interactions
- Different outcomes for certain missions
- Shooting people inside cars (that's new right?)
- Public transport
- Cover system and better shooting mechanics (though still room for improvement)
- Being drunk
- The ability to crouch (or was this included in SA too?)
- Online multiplayer

Come on now. You're right about a few things, but you're obviously padding the list to make it look larger. You really count the internet -- having to travel to a certain spot so you can read text boxes -- as a noteworthy addition?

On top of that, most of these improvements are things that should've been a given. Things that have to be improved for a sequel. It's the kind of thing you deduct points for if the devs miss it, but not the kind of thing you add points for if they don't. There's a certain standard for sequels, one of them being "it can't be the same damn game again." There being minor improvements in AI and control is a given, and we count on that happening with every sequel that gets made. Why GTA4 should get special bonus points just because it took them like 7 years to get a usable aiming system going is beyond me.

I mean, a game having online multiplayer in 2008 is not something to praise. Every game has it! It's a standard now; you criticize a game if it doesn't have it. And a more complex damage model will never, ever make for me not being able to jump out of a moving plane. Ever.

By the way, you're surely kidding about GTA4 being bigger than GTASA...right? It doesn't even matter if you mean geographically, feature-wise or how "epic" the missions become. GTASA trumps GTA4 in every size-related category.

(Bolded are things that are not new in GTA4, by the way. There was lots of dating in GTASA, for example.)

What are these classic GTA annoyances btw? I'm under the impression that they either fixed or at least improved upon most of the problems the previous games had. You are further into the game than I am, so maybe you can enlighten me.

The usual; control/combat, driving, glitches, stupid physics. I'm not one of the people who think GTA does these things irredeemably terrible, but it doesn't do them well either. And in 2008, it's time we start expecting blockbusters to at least have competent controls. I can still enjoy the game despite these flaws, but I really shouldn't have to look past large parts of the game.

 

[Alphahawk]

The developers of this game have a really weird definition of "Autosave" sometimes the game will save no hassle, but othertimes it asks me to select my storage device and confirm if I want to overwrite my saved game, this is utterly ridiculous since the definition of autosaves implys that it would be in the background.

Also it takes about one minute to even get into the game itself, I understand the game is loading and that this was an issue back in the old GTA 3 days but it's still annoying.

Lastly the camera while driving is pretty WTF, I mean who exactly thought it was a good idea for the camera to bob up and down while you were chasing somebody?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I don't like how the pointless car washes are shown as icons on the map but train stations/subways aren't.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

The developers of this game have a really weird definition of "Autosave" sometimes the game will save no hassle, but othertimes it asks me to select my storage device and confirm if I want to overwrite my saved game, this is utterly ridiculous since the definition of autosaves implys that it would be in the background.

Also it takes about one minute to even get into the game itself, I understand the game is loading and that this was an issue back in the old GTA 3 days but it's still annoying.

Lastly the camera while driving is pretty WTF, I mean who exactly thought it was a good idea for the camera to bob up and down while you were chasing somebody?

The game asks if you want to overwrite the autosave slot whenever you start playing again. Which is important as people playing for fun would overwrite your save if not.

Also the internet is the best addition to any game ever.

 

[Greg]

The game would suck without Euphoria.

 

[LakeEarth]

Oh, there's a reason why this game is so bare boned compared to San Andreas, but it isn't a good one. It's the EA/Madden method of managing new releases in a franchise -- when the first next gen version of the franchise comes out, strip out about 75% of the features that were in the last game so you can then add them in for each new sequel.

The game cost 100 million dollars and was already delayed 6 months. How long would we have to wait if they made it as fully featured as San Andreas?

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

The game would suck without Euphoria.

Well, this is exaggerated. But I think that the amount of 10s is getting doesn't make sense.

 

[Liabe Brave]

If there was ever a mission needing a checkpoint in the middle its

Spoiler

Three leaf clover

. Jesus fucking christ, this game seems more like a chore to play now.

Yeah, that's a hard one; took me three tries to finish. But you get a comparatively huge cash reward at the end to make up for it.

Spoiler

Plus, you get to play out the bank heist from Heat--steal from the best, Rockstar!

 

[Greg]

Well, this is exaggerated. But I think that the amount of 10s is getting dones't make sense.

The only things that impressed me about the game have come from euphoria.

Actually, I'm also impressed at the fact that they managed to make the combat system worse while including game-crashing bugs - that alone deserves a few points bonus in the the gameplay category.

 

[StarEye]

The game asks if you want to overwrite the autosave slot whenever you start playing again. Which is important as people playing for fun would overwrite your save if not.

Also the internet is the best addition to any game ever.

This must be on the PS3 version, the X360 version only asks which drive you want to save the autosave on once per session. Then if you turn off autosave, it won't save at all, if you turn it on it will be a background thing.

I absolutely love the autosave feature here - you can still have several saves, and the autosaves doesn't touch those regular saves that you do by going to bed in your apartment. Auto-save as a seperate save from the regulars is the way to go, always. You can choose to leave only use auto-save, but when friends come over and accidently overwrite your auto-save, you've only yourself to blame for not making "backups".

 

[DaCocoBrova]

The one thing, besides the classic GTA annoyances, that I can't get over is what's been said a million times by now; where the fuck are all the minor evolutions the series has gone through? Why does this game completely skip over VC and SA as if they never existed? I'm loving what's actually in GTA4, but I'm hating how much that isn't there.

GTA used to get a free pass due to all the random stuff they'd throw at you. They didn't fix all the problems because they were busy adding mini-games and shit. Now, we're left with all the usual problems, but none of the add-ons.

Yeah, you nailed it. Well said.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

This must be on the PS3 version, the X360 version only asks which drive you want to save the autosave on once per session. Then if you turn off autosave, it won't save at all, if you turn it on it will be a background thing.

I absolutely love the autosave feature here - you can still have several saves, and the autosaves doesn't touch those regular saves that you do by going to bed in your apartment. Auto-save as a seperate save from the regulars is the way to go, always. You can choose to leave only use auto-save, but when friends come over and accidently overwrite your auto-save, you've only yourself to blame for not making "backups".

Edit: sorry for the confusion.

 

[fudgey_lumpkins]

I don't like how my save file is corrupted. :-(

 

[RSP]

I have to say, 22 pages of bitching about a game that receives straight A's all around is a little bit awkward to me. And I have to agree, there is a LOT wrong with this game. It's a good game, but damn it has some major flaws.

I didn't notice this amount of problems with other recent major releases. Sure, there is always the occasional bitch-thread when a new game comes along, but this is a huge list of things that you just expect to be in a game like GTA4, and not have to complain about.

 

[Sylar]

Being drunk was also in VC.

- Jumping across building rooftops
- Shooting people inside cars

Was in VC also.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

I have to say, 22 pages of bitching about a game that receives straight A's all around is a little bit awkward to me. And I have to agree, there is a LOT wrong with this game. It's a good game, but damn it has some major flaws.

I didn't notice this amount of problems with other recent major releases. Sure, there is always the occasional bitch-thread when a new game comes along, but this is a huge list of things that you just expect to be in a game like GTA4, and not have to complain about.

Personally I have no explaination to this. Anyway, I don't think that all reviewers are deliberating doing that.

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

Framerate is very crappy. Overall the game just runs slow and clunky.

I really dont like the fact that I cant collect cars and hook them up like in Saints Row.

Clothes selection seems limited compared to Saints Row.

Niko on foot controls suck. I still have to keep slapping the A button to run when I have a analog stick. I hate how he turns, its like im on a bike but Im foot!

I dont like that I cant stick up a store at gun point or hold someone for randsom when you highjack their car.

The driving takes a while to getting used to and I blame the framerate of the game. You feel like you are going 10mph cause of the overall speed of the game but in game you are doing 70mph. Thus the breaking sucks cause you are so off on your judgment of the speed you were traveling at. They need to add a speedometer to the HUD whenever you enter a vehicle.

Im enjoying the game but Im not having as much fun as I did when I first played Saints Row.

I don't agree about the framerate at all. The game runs incredibly well for me I would say it's a locked 30fps most of the time. I didn't feel that was the case early on in the game, but the game feels pretty much perfect right now in the framerate department for me. Of course I can tell instances where it goes lower, but not once has it ever prevented me from doing exactly what I wanted to do during gameplay. If framerate isn't getting in the way of play then I don't consider it a big deal. Considering all this game is doing, what small framerate dips that do exist aren't problematic at all.

How you could enjoy Saints Row more than this is beyond me

Who cares about the clothes selection. It's obvious Rockstar didn't want to give the player the ability to do or purchase things that would fly in the face of the character they wanted to present. All the clothes available is perfectly in line with his kind of character. Whatever goes onto this character has to be the type of stuff that fits his character. That wasn't really a concern in Saints Row as they pretty much gave you the tools to look as ridiculous as you wanted to be falling in line with as many stereotypes as you want in the process.

Breaking is zero trouble in the game you just for whatever reason can't seem to get use to it. The driving is the best it has ever been for a game of this type. The vehicle physics are spot on and I never have trouble judging how to break to make a sharp turn.

Nike's on foot controls are very well done I don't see how someone could have a problem there.

Just differing opinions, but I don't have the smallest issue with the games performance. It runs extremely well on all accounts.

 

[EviLore]

I don't agree about the framerate at all. The game runs incredibly well for me I would say it's a locked 30fps most of the time.

And it becomes 60fps at night, right?

 

[Liabe Brave]

This must be on the PS3 version, the X360 version only asks which drive you want to save the autosave on once per session. Then if you turn off autosave, it won't save at all, if you turn it on it will be a background thing.

I absolutely love the autosave feature here - you can still have several saves, and the autosaves doesn't touch those regular saves that you do by going to bed in your apartment. Auto-save as a seperate save from the regulars is the way to go, always. You can choose to leave only use auto-save, but when friends come over and accidently overwrite your auto-save, you've only yourself to blame for not making "backups".

Actually, the PS3 version is better rated then the X360 version.... LOL at reviewers.

Since you obviously don't know (and StarEye was mistaken; read the post he was responding to), this is exactly how the PS3 save system works as well. If you have autosave on, the first autosave attempt per play session asks you if you want to overwrite the old one. From there on, it's in the background until you quite the game and restart. Manual saves don't touch the autosave. It is indeed a good system.

 

[Nameless]

The GAF Hall of "fucking idiots" is growing by the page in this thread.. WOW

 

[JonnyBrad]

Two things really. Having played thru crackdown, the on foot controls in GTA4 seem completely archaic. I can't believe you have to tap a button to run. Also i find that shooting cars to stop them in chases never seems to get them to stop. I usually just try to get close enough to ram them now. I had really trouble with the first mission for Brucie because of it.

 

[Mooreberg]

but othertimes it asks me to select my storage device

I find this weird considering that I have only the hard drive and not a memory card plugged into the system. What devices am I supposed to be choosing between?

Overall I like the auto save feature a lot though. Like I said in the main GTA IV thread, not having to go back to the safe house so you don't lose your progress is a big improvement.

I have to say, 22 pages of bitching about a game that receives straight A's all around is a little bit awkward to me. And I have to agree, there is a LOT wrong with this game. It's a good game, but damn it has some major flaws.

I didn't notice this amount of problems with other recent major releases. Sure, there is always the occasional bitch-thread when a new game comes along, but this is a huge list of things that you just expect to be in a game like GTA4, and not have to complain about.

The game isn't perfect but at the same time this forum will blow anything out of proportion. If there is one thing that the reviews completely failed on it is the issues that people are having with getting the game to actually run properly. I don't know if this is because they all play on debug units or didn't bother to try the game on the different SKUs each console has, but for it to be completely absent from reviews is baffling. I just consider myself lucky that it looks like I'll make it through the main campaign without catastrophe. I'm getting disc read errors but so far it is only happening at non-crucial points. I'm sure that will change though.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I have to say, 22 pages of bitching about a game that receives straight A's all around is a little bit awkward to me. And I have to agree, there is a LOT wrong with this game. It's a good game, but damn it has some major flaws.

I didn't notice this amount of problems with other recent major releases. Sure, there is always the occasional bitch-thread when a new game comes along, but this is a huge list of things that you just expect to be in a game like GTA4, and not have to complain about.

More people will buy this game than practically any other so that leads to an impression of more bitching. It's a free world game with the problems free world games have (See Oblivion). It's the fourth in a series of games so it's pretty consistent with what has come before it just like nearly all series are. It got perfect 10's which riles up the hardcore community since that means it's a 10 and perfect to them even though 10 doesn't mean perfect everybody wants to be that guy that proves the point. And if you boiled down the thread it's probably about 3 pages of legit complaints with most people coming in to repeat the same ones over and over again or some people arguing the case against.

 

[RSP]

I don't agree about the framerate at all. The game runs incredibly well for me I would say it's a locked 30fps most of the time. I didn't feel that was the case early on in the game, but the game feels pretty much perfect right now in the framerate department for me. Of course I can tell instances where it goes lower, but not once has it ever prevented me from doing exactly what I wanted to do during gameplay. If framerate isn't getting in the way of play then I don't consider it a big deal. Considering all this game is doing, what small framerate dips that do exist aren't problematic at all.

Everytime the time of day changes to morning / afternoon, I start driving around in a car or save my game to pass the time. I just don't want to be in a mission when the framerate is dropping everytime I look into a street. I don't know what platform you're playing on, but on X360 the framerate is everything BUT locked to 30 fps. The time of day that is the most playable seems to be night time.

In my experience;
- Framerate dips are a bothersome issue.
- The issue occurs very frequent.
- I use lock-on targeting, simply because the framerate doesn't let me aim accurately enough to use free-aim.
- When driving at full speed on a broad street (2 lanes each way, or on bridges) the framerate _always_ drops, regardless of time of day, or direction i'm driving in (because of the angle of the light)

 

[StarEye]

Since you obviously don't know (and StarEye was mistaken; read the post he was responding to), this is exactly how the PS3 save system works as well. If you have autosave on, the first autosave attempt per play session asks you if you want to overwrite the old one. From there on, it's in the background until you quite the game and restart. Manual saves don't touch the autosave. It is indeed a good system.

I was referring to Alphahawks post on Rockstar's "weird idea of autosaving", but I was quoting Son of Godzilla. I should've made that clearer.

 

[EviLore]

It got perfect 10's which riles up the hardcore community since that means it's a 10 and perfect to them even though 10 doesn't mean perfect everybody wants to be that guy that proves the point. And if you boiled down the thread it's probably about 3 pages of legit complaints with most people coming in to repeat the same ones over and over again or some people arguing the case against.

So basically, because of these hardcore gamers' delusions about 10s being perfect they feel the need to bash the game when they wouldn't otherwise, but they don't have any *legitimate* complaints because the game really is perfect!

 

[vumpler]

In my experience;
- Framerate dips are a bothersome issue.
- The issue occurs very frequent.
- I use lock-on targeting, simply because the framerate doesn't let me aim accurately enough to use free-aim.
- When driving at full speed on a broad street (2 lanes each way, or on bridges) the framerate _always_ drops, regardless of time of day, or direction i'm driving in (because of the angle of the light)

WTF its like we're playing 2 completely different games? Is there really that much inter xbox 360 difference?

You know if the screen is blurring that doesn't mean its framerate drop right? Thats supposed to happen in the turismo or other high end vehicle?

The high speed driving has been amazing for me.

The only problem is with the cover system to me. Its broken. You can't really look around well at all with it. For example theres a few missions so far where you go into large factories or large areas with lots of enemies. If you try to hide on a certain side of a pillar sometimes it doesn't want you to hide there. Or you'll lock on to the wrong wall. Even better sometimes it won't let you off that wall no matter how many times you hit Rb.

 

[Stoney Mason]

So basically, because of these hardcore gamers' delusions about 10s being perfect they feel the need to bash the game when they wouldn't otherwise, but they don't have any *legitimate* complaints because the game really is perfect!

Actually as I said their are about three pages of legit complaints (Which is plenty with 50 or so posts on a page and multiple criticisms within a post). I've made plenty myself. I said there were 19 other pages of people repeating those same complaints and other people arguing the opposite case in certain instances.

I said a ton of people have the game so a ton of posts are going to be there anyway and yes there is a segment of "hardcore" who want to tear down anything they perceive to be declared perfect just to be that guy.

I'm not sure why you picked my post to try to get anal on unless I'm missing the purpose of your reponse to my post. I thought I was pretty clear with the original post and I've been pretty consistent with all my posts on GTA 4.

 

[EviLore]

Actually as I said their are about three pages of legit complaints. I've made plenty myself. I said there were 19 other pages of people repeating those same complaints and other people arguing the opposite case in certain instances.

I said a ton of people have the game so a ton of posts are going to be there anyway and yes there is a segment of "hardcore" who want to tear down anything they perceive to be declared perfect.

I'm not sure why you picked my post to try to get anal on unless I'm missing the purpose of your reponse to my post. I thought I was pretty clear with the original post and I've been pretty consistent with all my posts on GTA 4.

Different people repeating the same complaints in a list your complaints thread, instead of coming up with original complaints for each new post? I'm aghast.

 

[Stoney Mason]

People repeating the same complaints in a list your complaints thread, instead of coming up with original complaints for each new post? I'm aghast.

Yeah, I don't really get what your going for here but I'm I'll drop it anyway

My issue was directed at his post that it was a 22 page complaint thread and how troublesome that was. I was clarifying that when you break it down it isn't really a 22 page complaint thread of unique complaints. It's a lot of other stuff mixed in there and at some points has been pure discussion. If you are suggesting that is somehow redundent or pointing out the obvious I'll concede the point. Not really sure what we are arguing.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

So basically, because of these hardcore gamers' delusions about 10s being perfect they feel the need to bash the game when they wouldn't otherwise, but they don't have any *legitimate* complaints because the game really is perfect!

The game is not perfect and most importantly, the "perfect score" should be deserved to games that are turn-around for the industry, i.e. that are a revolution in the sense that a new standard has to be set in the determined genre.
GTAIV is excellent in most key fields, but it's not a revolution: it is in line with GTAIII and so, it doesn't deserve the maximal score (and anyway defects are present in this game. How annoying these are it's a matter of opinions, but they're present).

It's logic. You understand this point by yourself.

What really is annoying is that in the past, high profile games have been criticised as non-innovating and so, their scores were lower then the sum of their strentghs. And this was, in my opinion, a right way to judge a game, because innovation count more then re-definition and addition of content.

I pretend only to see this rule applied to every game, without exceptions. If you decide to consider that the sum of the qualities of a game is what count and that innovation is secondary, for me it's ok. But please be coherent and apply this to every game that comes out.

 

[Acid08]

I don't like all these fucking technical problems. Other than that I love the graphics, new shooting, cover system, radio, story, and new characters. Basically I love the game, but the tech shit that R* has had trouble with tarnishes it.

 

[Stoney Mason]

The game is not perfect and most importantly, the "perfect score" should be deserved to games that are turn-around for the industry, i.e. that are a revolution in the sense that a new standard has to be set in the determined genre.
GTAIV is excellent in most key fields, but it's not a revolution: it is in line with GTAIII and so, it doesn't deserve the maximal score (and anyway defects are present in this game. How annoying these are it's a matter of opinions, but they're present).

It's logic. You understand this point by yourself.

What really is annoying is that in the past, high profile games have been criticised as non-innovating and so, their scores were lower then the sum of their strentghs. And this was, in my opinion, a right way to judge a game, because innovation count more then re-definition and addition of content.

I pretend only to see this rule applied to every game, without exceptions. If you decide to consider that the sum of the qualities of a game is what count and that innovation is secondary, for me it's ok. But please be coherent and apply this to every game that comes out.

What some of us are arguing in a large sense repeatedly is that the failing is with the scoring system and how they use it. A lot of complaints are that the game got a perfect 10. Which is a legit complaint. But when you look at the scores, the problem is an industry wide problem of how you view games. That 10 being the magical score is the problem. Not that GTA is the first one to get it. Halo 3 ( a non-revolutionary title) but very good game got a 9.5. Same with Twilight Princess. If GTA had gotten a 9.5 or a 9.6, I bet there would a lot less posts but because it hit 10, suddenly the game has been declared perfect in some people's eyes. I've always argued we are arguing an absurd distinction. The difference between 9.5 and 10 is nothing. It's ridiculous to even believe we can quantify games into these small slivers of distinction.

 

[Mooreberg]

The game is not perfect and most importantly, the "perfect score" should be deserved to games that are turn-around for the industry, i.e. that are a revolution in the sense that a new standard has to be set in the determined genre.

A 10/10 doesn't mean "perfect" among the vast majority of reviewers. The only games that are really perfectible are fighting and sports games since they build upon the same foundation over and over again. They could add everything that was in San Andreas back into the next GTA, but if the layout of the city isn't as interesting, the game certainly wouldn't be "perfect."

 

[Liabe Brave]

I was referring to Alphahawks post on Rockstar's "weird idea of autosaving", but I was quoting Son of Godzilla. I should've made that clearer.

Whoops. I should've understood it better, probably! In any case, Mithos was confused; the save systems on 360 and PS3 are nigh-identical (just that PS3 doesn't ask where you want the autosave to go, since there's no memory cards).