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[Vinci]

Basically

That's stupid. Period. Are people seriously suggesting that Nintendo, the #1 game publisher of all time, has a great deal of competition on the Wii? Are we really going to hold up a small handful of titles that actually were worth a shit and say, "There ya go! Nintendo's competition!" That's ridiculous.

Well I guess they would have a bigger market share but I doubt that they'd be selling more software.
I mean they have nothing close to Call of Duty and Rock Band wouldn't exist if not for Guitar Hero :/

But they'd have a bigger marketshare is my point. If EA had less quality competition, their marketshare on the 360 and PS3 would likely be close to what Nintendo's is on the Wii or more, right?

...

I guess I'm failing to understand why this is so confusing to people.

 

[Sadist]

That's stupid. Period. Are people seriously suggesting that Nintendo, the #1 game publisher of all time, has a great deal of competition on the Wii? Are we really going to hold up a small handful of titles that actually were worth a shit and say, "There ya go! Nintendo's competition!" That's ridiculous.

Well, apparently (insert random publisher) would agree with Mael.

 

[Mael]

That's stupid. Period. Are people seriously suggesting that Nintendo, the #1 game publisher of all time, has a great deal of competition on the Wii? Are we really going to hold up a small handful of titles that actually were worth a shit and say, "There ya go! Nintendo's competition!" That's ridiculous.

But it's basically what's happening.
For example I know that some people are asking for Assassin's Creed 2 on Wii(psp style), I know that I'd have NO interest at all in getting that game or even trying it.
The time for half assed attempts has passed.

But they'd have a bigger marketshare is my point. If EA had less quality competition, their marketshare on the 360 and PS3 would likely be close to what Nintendo's is on the Wii or more, right?

...

I guess I'm failing to understand why this is so confusing to people.

We're in agreement here

edit :

Well, apparently (insert random publisher) would agree with Mael.

I don't know if I'm clear enough though,
my point is that : make compeling software and I'll buy it.
I go to my game store nearly every week to know if there's something new.
Well if I browse the Wii part, I sure as hell compare it to Nintendo's stuffs and if I don't see anything interesting I don't buy anything.
I mean in regards to Dead Space :
I know about the game but I feel like I can't experience it if I don't know about Dead Space first.
I already have House of the Dead and the Resident Evils(Link crossbow stuffs too), do I really need this one too?
Is there someone I know who played it?(answer NO)
There's not even any ads anywhere so I can't even go by that.
There's basically nothing that separates it from Obscure 2 at this point.

 

[robjoh]

That's stupid. Period. Are people seriously suggesting that Nintendo, the #1 game publisher of all time, has a great deal of competition on the Wii? Are we really going to hold up a small handful of titles that actually were worth a shit and say, "There ya go! Nintendo's competition!" That's ridiculous.



But they'd have a bigger marketshare is my point. If EA had less quality competition, their marketshare on the 360 and PS3 would likely be close to what Nintendo's is on the Wii or more, right?

...

I guess I'm failing to understand why this is so confusing to people.

I think the big problem is that people doesn't see this on the other plattforms because Activision, Ubi and EA are all very active.

The debate might also come from CEOs that have to explain their bad results on the Wii. It is better to say that the market is unpredicatable or the market only buy Nintendo games than saying that they have no idea what to do.

 

[JJConrad]

Yeah, Pachter was asked about the breakdown of the other systems earlier, but he responded with DS numbers. I've spelled his name properly, maybe he'll respond now.

There was discussion about PS360 totals (includes 1st and 3rd party sales) from gamastram... the year-end totals were only estimates, but it was 53 million games for 360 and 33 million for PS3. Wii thoughly beat the PS3 and would be very close with the 360 for third-party sales.

 

[Vinci]

I think the big problem is that people doesn't see this on the other plattforms because Activision, Ubi and EA are all very active.

You could probably count on two hands how many titles these companies have released combined that have made a sizable dent in marketshare. My point is, I highly doubt Pachter or anyone else would be making topics on this as a negative if EA were dominating the 360 and PS3 given that one of the other 3rd party publishers wasn't hitting those systems so hard. But if it's Nintendo dominating its own platform, suddenly we're in "OMG" territory when it's blatantly obvious why that scenario has occurred.

The debate might also come from CEOs that have to explain their bad results on the Wii. It is better to say that the market is unpredicatable or the market only buy Nintendo games than saying that they have no idea what to do.

That's great. Let them bullshit folks. That doesn't mean GAF has to act as chorus to their nonsense.

 

[poppabk]

Basically


Well I guess they would have a bigger market share but I doubt that they'd be selling more software.
I mean they have nothing close to Call of Duty and Rock Band wouldn't exist if not for Guitar Hero :/

But Call of Duty wouldn't exist without Medal of Honor.

 

[Mael]

But Call of Duty wouldn't exist without Medal of Honor.

Considering that EA killed Medal of Honor all by themselves...

 

[Neomoto]

Maybe they could try following Nintendo's lead. Or is that too obvious?

 

[Vinci]

Maybe they could try following Nintendo's lead. Or is that too obvious?

They did. Superficially anyway.

 

[Mael]

Maybe they could try following Nintendo's lead. Or is that too obvious?

Apparently it's something way to hard for them to even try, I mean a game with an implementation of the wiimote that don't suck ass? peridsh the thought.
Personally if the net result is that they stop flooding the market with their crap I won't buy, I don't see the problem.
It's not like I'll get their games on the ps3 instead (believe me, I didn't buy CoD MW on Wii and I never intend to buy it on ps3 or even pc, same for nearly every games out there)

 

[Sadist]

The only one who actually tried following Nintendo would be EA with EA Sports Active.

 

[robjoh]

You could probably count on two hands how many titles these companies have released combined that have made a sizable dent in marketshare. My point is, I highly doubt Pachter or anyone else would be making topics on this as a negative if EA were dominating the 360 and PS3 given that one of the other 3rd party publishers wasn't hitting those systems so hard. But if it's Nintendo dominating its own platform, suddenly we're in "OMG" territory when it's blatantly obvious why that scenario has occurred.

I agree and the only reason I can think of is troll material so I am not going to mention that theory

But I simply think it is because Nintendo wasn't supposed to win so we have to find a reason why Wii is bad for the industry.

 

[Mael]

The only one who actually tried following Nintendo would be EA with EA Sports Active.

And looky here, they were successful!

edit :

You could probably count on two hands how many titles these companies have released combined that have made a sizable dent in marketshare. My point is, I highly doubt Pachter or anyone else would be making topics on this as a negative if EA were dominating the 360 and PS3 given that one of the other 3rd party publishers wasn't hitting those systems so hard. But if it's Nintendo dominating its own platform, suddenly we're in "OMG" territory when it's blatantly obvious why that scenario has occurred.

Seems we're in agreement again

 

[Vinci]

I agree and the only reason I can think of is troll material so I am not going to mention that theory

But I simply think it is because Nintendo wasn't supposed to win so we have to find a reason why Wii is bad for the industry.

Eh. I think it just goes back to an old viewpoint: Nintendo systems sell Nintendo games and nothing else. That's a deep-seeded perspective that the Wii appears to be confirming... if you're a total fool with absolutely no sense of reality. The reality is simple: Nintendo does what it does best; everyone else drops the ball. I'm shocked they don't have 50% control of the damn thing.

 

[Mael]

Eh. I think it just goes back to an old viewpoint: Nintendo systems sell Nintendo games and nothing else. That's a deep-seeded perspective that the Wii appears to be confirming... if you're a total fool with absolutely no sense of reality. The reality is simple: Nintendo does what it does best; everyone else drops the ball. I'm shocked they don't have 50% control of the damn thing.

Huh, what were we arguing again?
I mean that's basically my point

 

[robjoh]

Eh. I think it just goes back to an old viewpoint: Nintendo systems sell Nintendo games and nothing else. That's a deep-seeded perspective that the Wii appears to be confirming... if you're a total fool with absolutely no sense of reality. The reality is simple: Nintendo does what it does best; everyone else drops the ball. I'm shocked they don't have 50% control of the damn thing.

More or less what I meant, I am just not very good in English.

I do agree with you on the 50% part, I am not a Wii owner yet but am planing to buy one to play some NSMB Wii. When I look at the line up I can't find many 3rd party games that I want to play before a Nintendo game. However I do have more than 50% 3rd party games on my DS, and my most played DS game is probarbly Civ Rev.

 

[Vinci]

Huh, what were we arguing again?
I mean that's basically my point

I'm not arguing with you, I'm arguing beside you.

 

[Mael]

I'm not arguing with you, I'm arguing beside you.

Okay, well I guess my reading comprehension sucks in English after a day of work

 

[Version 3.0]

The only one who actually tried following Nintendo would be EA with EA Sports Active.

Actually, there were a few fitness games. Jillian Michaels (sp?) did alright IIRC.

And looky here, they were successful!

Compared to what? I mean, most successful 3rd party games on the Wii are carbon-copies of Nintendo games and do a fraction of the sales of what they're copying. EA Sports Active is a success, but compared to Wii Fit it's peanuts. The same is true for the Wii Sports clones that have had some success (Game Party, We Ski, etc)

That's fine--profit is profit--but I still think they can do better by not copying Nintendo directly, instead just copy their basic philosophy. Nintendo leaves huge holes in the genre makeup of the Wii, and nobody is building a market in them.

 

[Vinci]

That's fine--profit is profit--but I still think they can do better by not copying Nintendo directly, instead just copy their basic philosophy. Nintendo leaves huge holes in the genre makeup of the Wii, and nobody is building a market in them.

This is what I meant when I said that they 'superficially' followed Nintendo's lead.

 

[Mael]

Compared to what? I mean, most successful 3rd party games on the Wii are carbon-copies of Nintendo games and do a fraction of the sales of what they're copying. EA Sports Active is a success, but compared to Wii Fit it's peanuts. The same is true for the Wii Sports clones that have had some success (Game Party, We Ski, etc)

That's fine--profit is profit--but I still think they can do better by not copying Nintendo directly, instead just copy their basic philosophy. Nintendo leaves huge holes in the genre makeup of the Wii, and nobody is building a market in them.

Actually We Ski is REALLY not that bad (and I mean as a competent software, it needs a little more focus and it'd be the best ski game ever).
And you can't expect people to buy a game they don't know about.
I mean We Ski and Game Party had NO advertisement whatsoever, for them to sell as well as they did is a fucking miracle.
Wiifit had an ad campain on par with HALO 3,
did EA Sport Active have the same ad campaign?
Or should we cry over the fate of numerous fps that did a fraction of what Halo 3 did too?

And NO they never copy their basic phylosophy or we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

 

[Indyana]

But it's basically what's happening.
For example I know that some people are asking for Assassin's Creed 2 on Wii(psp style), I know that I'd have NO interest at all in getting that game or even trying it.
The time for half assed attempts has passed.

I don't think a lot of people are asking a half assed Assassin's Creed on Wii (neither on PSP). I think the PSP support is used, at least by me, because the reasons to not develop on Wii crash into pieces when you look at the PSP.

Artistic Vision, bigger market (or trying not to split it), multiplatform development, technical power... are used again and again to explain the lack of Wii support. But, somehow, this limitations haven't avoided the PSP support.

You could probably count on two hands how many titles these companies have released combined that have made a sizable dent in marketshare. My point is, I highly doubt Pachter or anyone else would be making topics on this as a negative if EA were dominating the 360 and PS3 given that one of the other 3rd party publishers wasn't hitting those systems so hard. But if it's Nintendo dominating its own platform, suddenly we're in "OMG" territory when it's blatantly obvious why that scenario has occurred.



That's great. Let them bullshit folks. That doesn't mean GAF has to act as chorus to their nonsense.

I know the tag is already taken, but right now you seem too resonable for this forum.

Playing the devil's advocate, Nintendo's marketshare reduces Wii market more than Sony's or Micrsoft's on their consoles. EA, Activision, Ubisoft... develop games for every platform. What changes in each market is the size of the first party marketshare.

 

[farnham]

Actually We Ski is REALLY not that bad (and I mean as a competent software, it needs a little more focus and it'd be the best ski game ever).
And you can't expect people to buy a game they don't know about.
I mean We Ski and Game Party had NO advertisement whatsoever, for them to sell as well as they did is a fucking miracle.
Wiifit had an ad campain on par with HALO 3,
did EA Sport Active have the same ad campaign?
Or should we cry over the fate of numerous fps that did a fraction of what Halo 3 did too?

And NO they never copy their basic phylosophy or we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

i liked we ski quite a lot.. i think 1up.com overrated it a bit.. but it had great art, good gameplay and basic balance board support

 

[Eteric Rice]

Is there anyone still surprised that Dead Space did badly? I mean NO ONE wanted the bloody game, if you make cow flavored ice cream in a really cold area of India don't be surprised you go out of business.
If anything it seems the 3rd parties have done their very best to fail on Wii

If I recall, GAF was pretty hyped until we found out it was a rails game.

 

[jay]

They did. Superficially anyway.

Superficially indeed.

This is an issue I'm sure has been discussed a billion times. Third parties think Nintendo is making shitty casual games and selling millions. Most of their successful casual stuff has their best talent behind it. Shigeru Miyamoto has worked on these games.

 

[Version 3.0]

Actually We Ski is REALLY not that bad (and I mean as a competent software, it needs a little more focus and it'd be the best ski game ever).
And you can't expect people to buy a game they don't know about.
I mean We Ski and Game Party had NO advertisement whatsoever, for them to sell as well as they did is a fucking miracle.
Wiifit had an ad campain on par with HALO 3,
did EA Sport Active have the same ad campaign?
Or should we cry over the fate of numerous fps that did a fraction of what Halo 3 did too?

I'm not knocking We Ski, not at all. Making a Wii Sports-esque take on a sport that isn't in Wii Sports is not a bad idea. And making a fitness game on a system that's sold a billion copies of Wii Fit isn't a bad idea either. But it's also not the path to greatness. I'm saying that an untapped market has more potential than a crowded one, that's all.

And NO they never copy their basic phylosophy or we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. First let me say, though, that it's pathetic to think that "consistently make good games" is an idea that needs to be demonstrated or copied.

But plenty of game companies have the same (obvious principles as Nintendo, even if they're not as good at delivering on them. I'd say Capcom, for example, despite their complete mishandling of the Wii, do try to always turn out a quality product. Then there are the big boys, Activision and EA, who often do, but consider quality a lower priority vs other factors. And there are the SEGAs, who sadly can't even tell if a game is good or not. And then there are the Ubisofts of the world, who very deliberately divide their games into "maximum effort" and "minimum effort" categories, and put most of the games in the latter category on the Wii and DS, and very few of the former.

 

[NeoUltima]

Do you have any clue what you're comparing? Just because 1 sells doesn't mean the other won't sell. I actually own all the games that just happened to sell well. Why? Because they're good and something I wanted. Why would people want Dead Space Extraction? One more light-gun example and I'm gonna go nuts on you guys.

Considering it was a pos, Wii Music has done amazing.

The bolded is part of my point, I don't think you have been following the conversation.

I don't claim to say hardcore games are destined to fail on Wii. Not at all. I have said they can do well. But there is less risk on the other two systems. Signs point for 3rd parties to make hd games. It's evidence-based management. They are doing what evidence suggests.

Don't read so deep into little examples I have in a post I typed up in 20 minutes. Replace DSE with Madworld or something else.

You're correct about one thing: sales do speak volumes. Look what's selling on the Wii: excellent, well-marketed games (that happen to be from Nintendo), a handful of carbon copies of the same, and a few random titles that basically "won the lottery" and clicked with a few percent of the audience. That says it all. But unfortunately, the logical conclusions are never drawn from it. Not by 3rd parties, and not by you. Instead, every success is written off as a fluke and every failure is taken as proof that success is impossible.

It's one thing to say "make high quality, highly marketed games" and a whole other to do that. Many of the top selling Wii games I guess are ones you would consider "won the lottery"...There's never any lottery winning on the other consoles. You make a piece of crap it will not sell. Clearly there is some sort of random effect(its not really random, its making a decent casual game that can click).

The risk of making a core game stems from many things. For one, there is a fundamentally different market composition on the Wii. Go ahead and say you disagree w/e. In addition, there is only a certain amount of consumer dollars to be spent. An incredibly large amount of those dollars are spent on Nintendo games. Quite frankly, 3rd parties would have to produce amazing things to take away from that. It is less risky to build an hd multiplat.

Again...I don't claim to say hardcore games are destined to fail on Wii. Not at all. I have said they can do well. I guarantee if MW3 was Wii exclusive it would sell millions. But evidence suggest more can be made with hd games. Regardless what you think the reality is, that is not what the evidence suggests.

 

[Vinci]

Playing the devil's advocate, Nintendo's marketshare reduces Wii market more than Sony's or Micrsoft's on their consoles. EA, Activision, Ubisoft... develop games for every platform. What changes in each market is the size of the first party marketshare.

Of course, but that's naturally going to happen regardless of who's capturing those sales. Be it Nintendo, EA, etc. and so on. The point is, the fact that EA has nearly 30% marketshare in such highly contested markets as the PS3 and 360 is somehow not a bigger deal than Nintendo capturing less than 10% more on one platform with next to no real competition. And honestly, the fact that the latter is seen as a negative and the former a positive is just mind-boggling.

 

[boiled goose]

Considering it was a pos, Wii Music has done amazing.

I dont think you have played Wii Music. It was overhyped and overpushed by nintendo. Which is why it sold well initially. The lack of system driving power and legs is the result of it not being on par with Sports or Fit.

It sold because it was marketed and people were aware of it. It didnt continue to sell because it wasnt that great. Still not a POS.

 

[Vinci]

I dont think you have played Wii Music. It was overhyped and overpushed by nintendo. Which is why it sold well initially. The lack of system driving power and legs is the result of it not being on par with Sports or Fit.

It sold because it was marketed and people were aware of it. It didnt continue to sell because it wasnt that great. Still not a POS.

I've often called Wii Music a fraud Nintendo perpetrated, perhaps unintentionally, on its audience. It was packaged and advertised as if it were of the same design philosophy as Wii Sports... but it wasn't. At all. It was a totally different sort of experience, but its initial sales resulted from people thinking it was more of the same.

The quality of the product isn't what hurt it; the philosophy behind it was just different.

 

[boiled goose]

Of course, but that's naturally going to happen regardless of who's capturing those sales. Be it Nintendo, EA, etc. and so on. The point is, the fact that EA has nearly 30% marketshare in such highly contested markets as the PS3 and 360 is somehow not a bigger deal than Nintendo capturing less than 10% more on one platform with next to no real competition. And honestly, the fact that the latter is seen as a negative and the former a positive is just mind-boggling.

Exactly...

There is way way more competition on the HD platforms. Nintendo has 30% on wii, EA has 30% on PS360. That 70% is way more contested on the HD consoles than it is on the Wii.

With the shit that is released on Wii, I'm surprised third parties are still taking 70% of the market. If they released quality software, they sure as hell would have a higher percentage.

I've often called Wii Music a fraud Nintendo perpetrated, perhaps unintentionally, on its audience. It was packaged and advertised as if it were of the same design philosophy as Wii Sports... but it wasn't. At all. It was a totally different sort of experience, but its initial sales resulted from people thinking it was more of the same.

The quality of the product isn't what hurt it; the philosophy behind it was just different.

I agree. I was highlighting the fact that it was marketed as the next Wii game. Hence the initial sales.
Marketing> everything else
when it comes to initial sales. And marketing is much more than just advertising.

 

[crazy monkey]

Yes.

Okay, just for fun, I included 3rd-party Wii titles in brackets.

> 400k:

Wii - 7 (1)
DS - 6
360 - 4
PS3 - 2
PS2 - 0
PSP - 0

> 200k:

Wii - 15+ (5+)
DS - 10+
360 - 5+
PS3 - 5+
PS2 - 0
PSP - 0

> 100k:

Wii - 40+ (30+)
DS - 40+
360 - 15+
PS3 - 10+
PS2 - 0+
PSP - 0+

> 50k:

Wii - 90+ (75+)
DS - 90+
360 - 30+
PS3 - 30+
PS2 - 5+
PSP - 5+

> 20k:

Wii - 200+ (175+)
DS - 190+
360 - 70+
PS3 - 60+
PS2 - 25+
PSP - 35+

Dalthien posted this in npd thread. Quite interesting.

 

[Vinci]

I agree. I was highlighting the fact that it was marketed as the next Wii game. Hence the initial sales.
Marketing> everything else
when it comes to initial sales. And marketing is much more than just advertising.

Yeah. People saw adverts for it, thought of its lineage (Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc.) and bought into it as being part of that same mindset. Only it wasn't. Which is really too bad - it might have been something truly special for people and music if it had been designed with the same goals in mind.

 

[Aaron Strife]

I also think Wii Music was hurt by coming out after Guitar Hero and Rock Band had exploded in popularity, even if it's not really the same. Wii Sports was packed in and Wii Play came with a Friimote (I'm sorry), so those two had/were incentives. Wii Fit was the first fitness game on the console so it essentially invented the genre, while Wii Music was... well, a music game. Not much going on there.

Still amazing that 3 million is considered a flop.

 

[farnham]

But it's basically what's happening.
For example I know that some people are asking for Assassin's Creed 2 on Wii(psp style), I know that I'd have NO interest at all in getting that game or even trying it.
The time for half assed attempts has passed.

but that assassins creed 2 would have sold better then bloodlines..

still bloodlines PSP gets the green light and wii gets the shaft.. what does that tell you ?

I also think Wii Music was hurt by coming out after Guitar Hero and Rock Band had exploded in popularity, even if it's not really the same. Wii Sports was packed in and Wii Play came with a Friimote (I'm sorry), so those two had/were incentives. Wii Fit was the first fitness game on the console so it essentially invented the genre, while Wii Music was... well, a music game. Not much going on there.

Still amazing that 3 million is considered a flop.

Only by fanboys

 

[AlternativeUlster]

I would like to know what 30 plus 3rd party titles sold more than 100k.

 

[NeoUltima]

I dont think you have played Wii Music. It was overhyped and overpushed by nintendo. Which is why it sold well initially. The lack of system driving power and legs is the result of it not being on par with Sports or Fit.

It sold because it was marketed and people were aware of it. It didnt continue to sell because it wasnt that great. Still not a POS.

I don't disagree with you(though I'd add some stuff). Just pointing out that it didn't "tank" as the guy I was responding to said.

 

[Flakster99]

Is pachter still here?

If he is, what do you think of Ubisoft, Namco and EAs reasoning of putting Assasins Creed, Soul Calibur, Dante's Inferno, and Army Of Two on the PSP and not Wii?

This alone makes me go !Que!

Would like to understand said reasoning as well.

Fascinating thread!

 

[boiled goose]

I also think Wii Music was hurt by coming out after Guitar Hero and Rock Band had exploded in popularity, even if it's not really the same. Wii Sports was packed in and Wii Play came with a Friimote (I'm sorry), so those two had/were incentives. Wii Fit was the first fitness game on the console so it essentially invented the genre, while Wii Music was... well, a music game. Not much going on there.

Still amazing that 3 million is considered a flop.

I agree with the GH statement. GH3 did extremely awesomely on Wii. It was a fullfledged release. Custom guitar for Wii, online play, etc.

Local Multi, accesible, fun, etc. It got there before Wii music and in many ways it was better.

Would like to understand said reasoning as well.

Fascinating thread!

I think the sony moneyhats explanation given earlier is the only possible thing that could make some sense....

Even then, if they already have a downgraded engine, why not port it to wii? Even if it is not an awesome port and doesnt use motion controls or anything.

All of those games would have sold better on Wii than PSP no question.

 

[crazy monkey]

Would like to understand said reasoning as well.

Fascinating thread!

same.

 

[Agnates]

All of those games would have sold better on Wii than PSP no question.

And maybe with two platforms to cater for they'd actually be better games too. Cheap PSP knock-off with barely any returns could become a medium budget side story with good returns and pave the way for grander projects...

Is Wii getting the new Force Unleashed since the first sold so well? I'd not be surprised if it didn't regardless. If it's still on, they're the minority, but kudos anyway.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Is Wii getting the new Force Unleashed since the first sold so well? I'd not be surprised if it didn't regardless. If it's still on, they're the minority, but kudos anyway.

360/PS3/Wii/DS/PSP

Maybe they'll give the Wii version a little more effort... nah.

The new Prince of Persia (the one that continues off the Sands of Time trilogy/movie) is also getting a Wii version, so that might be one to look out for

 

[Sadist]

360/PS3/Wii/DS/PSP

Maybe they'll give the Wii version a little more effort... nah.

It had that Wii exclusive fighter/vs. mode thingy with all the important Star Wars Characters. Krome did a pretty okay job.

The new Prince of Persia (the one that continues off the Sands of Time trilogy/movie) is also getting a Wii version, so that might be one to look out for

Ubisoft Quebec. So no.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Ubisoft Quebec. So no.

I never said it wouldn't suck

 

[Sadist]

Fair enough.

 

[The Technomancer]

IGN just posted an interesting editorial about NBA Jam and third parties in general, and this quote struck me:

It's a strategy that could work to the system's favor. While the more powerful systems fight it out with aggressive Mature-focused, high-budget productions that push visuals in the HD era, the less-capable Wii can appeal to the clearly segmented "casual" and "hardcore" markets with familiar, straightforward experiences that bring them up to 2010 standards that gamers can accept. Tried-and-true, challenging game designs with mechanics can be reborn with new presentations that don't overwhelm the "new audience" that Nintendo is attracting. While doing this, it's approaching mechanics that were once considered hardcore, returning to the demographic that currently feels abandoned by the company that introduced them to videogames.

Now, I disagree with "clearly segmented", and the rest of article seems to be based around the idea that these should mainly be remakes and revivals of classic franchises, which I'm less on board with (new stuff would be nice too please), but overall, this is an ideal I can get behind.

Full article:http://wii.ign.com/articles/106/1063846p1.html

 

[Effect]

I've often called Wii Music a fraud Nintendo perpetrated, perhaps unintentionally, on its audience. It was packaged and advertised as if it were of the same design philosophy as Wii Sports... but it wasn't. At all. It was a totally different sort of experience, but its initial sales resulted from people thinking it was more of the same.

The quality of the product isn't what hurt it; the philosophy behind it was just different.

I agree with this to a degree. Wii Music overall is a well done product. It most certainly isn't a POS. Anyone that says it is I have to question if they've even touched the game and even tried it. (IGN for example showed how stupid they really where when it came to this game. They of all people, being in the media with access to Nintendo and other companies should have known exactly what this game was but they clearly didn't and I don't understand how. They had to have played it before it came out.) However Nintendo didn't really seem to get across well what it actually was to the general public, same for the gaming media industry (maybe they didn't want to as well due to being Rockband and GH crazy at the time).

What I think went wrong with it was that people thought it might be closer, wrongly I might add but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case, to Rock Band and Guitar Hero. It's a music game from Nintendo where you play various instruments. Not that big of a leap to make. However Wii Music is a music creator/manipulator. Nintendo should have gone out and said exactly that. I don't believe they were ever that straight forward in regard to the game. That would have cleared up the confusion. It still would have sold extremely well. That it wasn't a rhythm game in the normal sense. I knew that going into it but I didn't pick up the game when it first game out because I was busy with other things at the time. Having taken the time to play for some time now (off and on when I feel like being musical ) the biggest flaw with the game itself is the song selection and not being able to add new songs to it. I can see what was attempted here and I think they did well but could still do better. Like Wii Sports and Wii Fit it needs it's own Resort/Plus sequel.

 

[Version 3.0]

It's one thing to say "make high quality, highly marketed games" and a whole other to do that. Many of the top selling Wii games I guess are ones you would consider "won the lottery"...There's never any lottery winning on the other consoles. You make a piece of crap it will not sell. Clearly there is some sort of random effect(its not really random, its making a decent casual game that can click).

The risk of making a core game stems from many things. For one, there is a fundamentally different market composition on the Wii. Go ahead and say you disagree w/e. In addition, there is only a certain amount of consumer dollars to be spent. An incredibly large amount of those dollars are spent on Nintendo games. Quite frankly, 3rd parties would have to produce amazing things to take away from that. It is less risky to build an hd multiplat.

Again...I don't claim to say hardcore games are destined to fail on Wii. Not at all. I have said they can do well. I guarantee if MW3 was Wii exclusive it would sell millions. But evidence suggest more can be made with hd games. Regardless what you think the reality is, that is not what the evidence suggests.

You're crazy if you think "crap" doesn't sell--on any console. It most certainly does, and always has. If you'd like an example, just grab the nearest movie tie-in game.

But that's subjective, and it's not what I meant by "win the lottery". What I meant was that these games were made with the hope that they might click with someone and sell, rather than the genuine belief in their quality and effort put forth to ensure (as much as possible) that they would.

Also, I agree that "hardcore" games are an easier sell on the HD consoles. The audience has been built and well-served, and everyone knows what to expect. I'm not saying that HD games should be cancelled in favor of Wii games. I'm saying publishers should do both, and I don't mean throw together some cheap shit and push it out the door. I mean, basically, treat the Wii the same way they treated the PS2. I'm repeating myself here, but resources are going to waste; studios are being shut down even as a huge market is being neglected. It's a shame.

 

[J-Rock]

Make good games. And advertise them.

Make good games. And advertise them.

Make good games. And advertise them.

Make good games. And advertise them.

Pretty much.