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Third Party Wii Games

selig

Banned
Jun 9, 2004
2,306
0
0
Nintendo offers a 28 million user-base.

Btw., i´m surprised how honest Reggie is in that interview. "Games like Bioshock 2, we´re not good at them".
 

AceBandage

Banned
Mar 22, 2007
35,547
0
0
selig said:
Nintendo offers a 28 million user-base.

Btw., i´m surprised how honest Reggie is in that interview. "Games like Bioshock 2, we´re not good at them".


Well, Nintendo has always admitted that that is a big userbase they don't specifically make games for, which is why they hire third parties like Sandlot and n-Space.
 

Penguin

Member
Jun 15, 2004
32,800
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www.nerdsontherocks.com
Yeah that's what I never got about 3rd parties go back to the Cube, is that they say there is never any mature/hardcore content, but they won't provide it. Hell, if anything I would love to be the only one playing the game, its not crowded, and you have a better chance to stand out.
 

Skorp

Neo Member
Nov 25, 2008
97
0
0
backloggery.com
Haven't been on Gaf in a while, hopefully not too late to weigh in.

I own around 40 wii games and I recently got a PS3. When the wii came out everyone got one with hopes of what would come. In between then and now games have gotten better, but they still aren't anywhere near the efforts you see on other consoles (outside of nintendo first party). I recently got a PS2 as well and it's sad there are so many PS2 games that run circles around the "newer" wii titles.

We're finally seeing decent (not really AAA though) titles now. But sadly I'm the only one of my friends left playing my wii. My friends laugh at me when I try to push Red Steel 2, Monster Hunter 3, or similar quality titles which I'm sure I could have sold them on 2 years ago. Third parties simply made a bad first impression and have lost consumer trust. I got one of my friends to get the Conduit and the lag online and glitches turned him off so much I will never get him to try another game even if it is far superior. Another friend and I got Tiger Woods 10, a great game that got a lot of advertising and most probably the best golf video game ever made. In the end though its golf. New Super Mario Brothers Wii had us all laughing and having fun together. But neither of them have any reason to get it when they can play it at my place and there's no online so we could play together otherwise. Again, two years ago, one of my friends at least would have got it.

40 wii games and very few third party titles were really enjoyable to me. Muramasa was the best game I played from a third party in a long time. Neither of them heard about it, one showed interest watching a video. Everyone I know is getting a PS3 now. You better believe nobody is going to go back to wii games after monsters like Uncharted 2 and LittleBigPlanet. What is left on wii that is compelling? High quality multiplayer offerings are nonexistent.

As much as I want to say quality and advertising would help I don't think at this point it is enough. You need more than that now because of the crap that was flung early on. You need quality, advertising, and word of mouth. You need a game that works well in splitscreen, works well online, and has a great single player. If the people still playing their wii can't sell the game to their friends who aren't anymore, the game isn't going to do well.
 

Penguin

Member
Jun 15, 2004
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Yeah, its hard to sell people on Wii games at times.

On the same hand, I saw this in the Red Steel 2 thread (which I am interested in), but I always find it odd that people feel obligated or feel they should obligate others to buy 3rd party affairs because they looked like they gave it effort.

That is noble and all, but really, it sometimes get old and annoying.
 

Kevtones

Member
Jun 11, 2005
27,614
2
0
Los Angeles, California
Skorp said:
Everyone I know is getting a PS3 now. You better believe nobody is going to go back to wii games after monsters like Uncharted 2 and LittleBigPlanet. What is left on wii that is compelling? High quality multiplayer offerings are nonexistent.


I'm sorry but you have to be trolling. LBP may have a robust level creator that I put a shit load of time into but fuck if it doesn't play like shit compared to NSMBWii.

Guess you and your friends hate fun but love watching each other slowly build wall textures...
 

Vizion28

Banned
Aug 24, 2009
671
0
0
California
I hope with all the money Nintendo is making they are building new 2nd party studios especially in the West. Nintendo needs 2nd party developers to make games they couldn't make. That way they won't need 3rd parties - at least not to the extent Sony and Microsoft does.
 

donny2112

Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,797
1
1,590
Vizion28 said:
I hope with all the money Nintendo is making they are building new 2nd party studios

Project Sora is one, though it's not the West. I know I keep going back to it, but almost all the complaints about the lack of compelling Western content on the Wii would probably be taken care of if the Stamper Bros. hadn't wanted to get out of the business and become wholly owned by another company. RARE and Nintendo were a great combination. Too bad there isn't a new RARE for Nintendo to team up with.
 

Skorp

Neo Member
Nov 25, 2008
97
0
0
backloggery.com
Boney said:
Right there is your problem.

Yeah I expected better from the Conduit. Didn't realize how glitchy it was till I put a ton of time into it. I still enjoyed the game a lot because of a lack of similar offerings on the wii.

I Push Fat Kids said:
I'm sorry but you have to be trolling. LBP may have a robust level creator that I put a shit load of time into but fuck if it doesn't play like shit compared to NSMBWii.

Guess you and your friends hate fun but love watching each other slowly build wall textures...
Sorry you're right, LBP was a bad example and I may have exaggerated a little, Heavy Rain could be a better example, there are many amazing PS360 games, the specific games aren't important though, I'm just saying its hard to go back to my wii at times after playing HD games for a while. I definitely agree about LBP vs NSMBW in gameplay, we've played NSMBW at least 5 times as much I would say. I was complaining about the LBP jumping to my brother when we were playing it the other day.

Don't get me wrong I love my wii and would love my friends to play theirs with me. Perhaps they aren't a good representation of the wii userbase. But I'm still waiting to see a game that isn't niche and well made that I could sell them on. Word of mouth was and still is a huge factor in game sales. I don't think Carnival Games or Just Dance would be such successes if people weren't playing them and then showing their friends.

On a side note my friend who got the Conduit just grabbed a copy of NSMBW today for his sister in law so I still have some hope.
 

evangd007

Member
Jun 27, 2009
2,921
21
1,005
Skorp said:
Don't get me wrong I love my wii and would love my friends to play theirs with me. Perhaps they aren't a good representation of the wii userbase. But I'm still waiting to see a game that isn't niche and well made that I could sell them on. Word of mouth was and still is a huge factor in game sales. I don't think Carnival Games or Just Dance would be such successes if people weren't playing them and then showing their friends.

On a side note my friend who got the Conduit just grabbed a copy of NSMBW today for his sister in law so I still have some hope.

You could consider them "memetic Wii owners" since they can legitimately claim that their Wiis are catching dust!

On a less sarcastic note, if you are looking to try to sell them on something, you can try to convince them to give the Monster Hunter 3 demo a shot. I know you said that you tried to hawk MH3 on them before, but the demo is free to try (at least it is if you go to a cool Gamestop), so that may make it an easier sell.
 

Sadist

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Feb 2, 2008
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Penguin said:
Yeah, its hard to sell people on Wii games at times.

On the same hand, I saw this in the Red Steel 2 thread (which I am interested in), but I always find it odd that people feel obligated or feel they should obligate others to buy 3rd party affairs because they looked like they gave it effort.

That is noble and all, but really, it sometimes get old and annoying.
I agree.

Problem is, if Nintendo doesn't capture "relevant western support" in this day and age where western support is one of the most important things to have, people won't bite. Allthough I think it's a bit ironic that here in Europe there is actually a lot of interest regarding Red Steel 2.
 

MYE

Member
Jul 20, 2009
16,499
4
0
Skorp said:
You better believe nobody is going to go back to wii games after monsters like Uncharted 2 and LittleBigPlanet.

wat

edit: oh, you're talking about your friends.
 

Vagabundo

Member
Feb 10, 2007
11,730
4
0
Dublin, Ireland (Place of Legend)
Interesting quotes from reggie there. It shows that Nintendo will try have a nice and inviting platform for 3rd parties, but arn't going to bend over backwards for them. Nintendo will do what they do well and continue to make huge profits. Even if the rest of the industry ignores their platforms.

Basically: NotmyproblemReggie.gif

I think it is a mistake for 3rd parties to not build their franchises on the Wii, a big mistake.

Still, we're all done for this Gen. It's all downhill from now.
 

thefro

Member
May 14, 2006
17,455
1
0
donny2112 said:
Project Sora is one, though it's not the West. I know I keep going back to it, but almost all the complaints about the lack of compelling Western content on the Wii would probably be taken care of if the Stamper Bros. hadn't wanted to get out of the business and become wholly owned by another company. RARE and Nintendo were a great combination. Too bad there isn't a new RARE for Nintendo to team up with.

I don't think Rare would have really helped except for Perfect Dark Zero.

What I'd love for someone to ask Iwata is why Nintendo isn't replicating their efforts in Japan to attract core gamers by funding/moneyhatting games that appeal to them by funding/moneyhatting some games in the West.
 

Deku

Banned
Jan 6, 2005
16,689
0
1,455
カナダ
AceBandage said:
Sadly, third parties don't seem too interested in being courted unless you basically fund the development, and even then, you aren't guaranteed a great product.
This generation is so fucked up.

That's how Microsoft got the ball rolling. But Nintendo hasn't shown an interest in that kind of stuff.

Maybe they'll change and give EA 50 million dollars for exclusive content. And 2k 100 million for exclusive DLC next gen.
 

Vinci

Danish
Oct 12, 2007
22,075
0
0
United States
thefro said:
I don't think Rare would have really helped except for Perfect Dark Zero.

What I'd love for someone to ask Iwata is why Nintendo isn't replicating their efforts in Japan to attract core gamers by funding/moneyhatting games that appeal to them by funding/moneyhatting some games in the West.

Because they haven't experienced much trouble in selling the system in the West. Japan was (and still is) a really problematic region for consoles this gen.
 
Sep 14, 2009
7
0
0
All I want is Monster Hunter for one of the GOOD consoles. Yes, Lost Planet 2 will be awesome, but it's just not the same... I want something with more of an open world, MMO feel to it rather than a linear story.
 

Effect

Member
Jun 15, 2007
21,770
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0
This is why I don't get and get annoyed by statements that Nintendo should be doing more to court 3rd party developers/publishers. What make can they do outside of simply funding development of games. Even then that is no guarantee that the end result will be good. Nintendo has done what they were suppose to do as Reggie said. Provide the customer base, platform to development on and tools. It's up to the publishers to decide to make games and convince buyers to buy them. They have no problem doing this on the PS3 and 360 but on the Wii they refuse to. It isn't a matter of them "not getting it". It's never been that I'm starting to believe. It's always been this weird intent on their part to treat Nintendo systems this way.

Best Nintendo can do is partner up with some key developers when it comes to their own IPs they don't have time or even desire at that point in time to use and to build a stronger 2nd party community. Both of which I think they are in the process of doing. They can't force 3rd parties to put out decent efforts. They aren't going to hurt their own existence and profits to get them to develop games.

I wouldn't be surprise come next generation if Nintendo continues to do it's own thing and simply has games coming from their first party studios and 2nd party companies they work close with. Not to say they'll say screw you to 3rd parties but that they simply won't put in the extra effort to get them as they know now it's really doesn't matter what they do. We could have three separate industries in a way. Nintendo, PC, and then whatever Microsoft, Sony, and 3rd party console developers are doing. Starting to look that way now I think.
 

pakkit

Banned
Feb 19, 2008
10,913
0
0
Richmond, VA
Frodo-Teabaggins said:
All I want is Monster Hunter for one of the GOOD consoles. Yes, Lost Planet 2 will be awesome, but it's just not the same... I want something with more of an open world, MMO feel to it rather than a linear story.
:lol

See ya round.
 

Loonz

Member
Jan 6, 2006
703
0
1,385
Salamanca, Spain
Skorp said:
nobody is going to go back to wii games after monsters like Uncharted 2 and LittleBigPlanet

Sorry but :lol .

I have both U2 and LBP (enjoyed U2 inmensely, kinda enjoyed LBP, NSMBWii crushes them both) and right now I play more my Wii than my PS3 (Silent Hill SM is quite a bit better than Heavy Rain IMO, I have both). I switch seamlessly from one console to the other depending on the "worthyness" of the content for my tastes. And I suppose that tends to be true for most people out there.
 

Penguin

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Jun 15, 2004
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thefro said:
I don't think Rare would have really helped except for Perfect Dark Zero.

What I'd love for someone to ask Iwata is why Nintendo isn't replicating their efforts in Japan to attract core gamers by funding/moneyhatting games that appeal to them by funding/moneyhatting some games in the West.

Oh for some reason, and this is gonna come off bad, but I don't think Perfect Dark Zero would have existed if Rare was with Nintendo. I don't see them rushing it out the door for launch and I don't see them having them ship it until it was up to their standards.

That said, Nintendo tried last gen to play nice with western developers like Silicion Knight and n-Space and while I personally like Geist and Eternal Darkness, it just didn't do much for them.

I think that it was that they strayed from their core idea of just making games, and not shoe-horning themselves into this game will appeal to this audience. If they want to make a mature game, I think they should just start by making a game that is fun and decorating around that.

On the same hand, their investment in Retro Studios worked out so maybe they should find someone else like that. And what ever happened to their other American arm?
 

Swittcher

Banned
Jan 21, 2010
1,209
0
0
Frodo-Teabaggins said:
All I want is Monster Hunter for one of the GOOD consoles. Yes, Lost Planet 2 will be awesome, but it's just not the same... I want something with more of an open world, MMO feel to it rather than a linear story.

wtf
 

MYE

Member
Jul 20, 2009
16,499
4
0
Frodo-Teabaggins said:
All I want is Monster Hunter for one of the GOOD consoles.

 

MYE

Member
Jul 20, 2009
16,499
4
0
Loonz said:
Silent Hill SM is quite a bit better than Heavy Rain IMO, I have both).

I hope so, i bought one over the other.
Cant wait to slide that disc on my Wii and bump the old SM thread for sum yumi speculation :D
 

Skorp

Neo Member
Nov 25, 2008
97
0
0
backloggery.com
Loonz said:
Sorry but :lol .

I have both U2 and LBP (enjoyed U2 inmensely, kinda enjoyed LBP, NSMBWii crushes them both) and right now I play more my Wii than my PS3 (Silent Hill SM is quite a bit better than Heavy Rain IMO, I have both). I switch seamlessly from one console to the other depending on the "worthyness" of the content for my tastes. And I suppose that tends to be true for most people out there.
LBP was a bad example for sure, mostly I was referring to the multiplayer and content creation available (the latter of which I haven't tried yet). Sure the wii isn't on par with PS360 in the online department but it's not as gimped as the software offerings make it seem. I do the same thing switching between my PS3 and my wii, but we are on gaf and play games far more than the average wii owner. I spend a lot more on games than the average wii gamer. I give lots of games a chance whereas most people will only grab a few titles they are really interested in. Not talking myself up just saying we on gaf aren't the average. Everyone always brings up quality and advertising and these are definitely important, but don't explain the sales of surprise third party successes. Why would a company want to invest all this money and take a risk (I know we all wish they would) when they can try smaller budget titles and possibly get lucky with a Ubisoft/EA type success. If a company makes a good game for an HD console it will sell if its good. If they make a quality wii title can you guarentee them it will sell? Companies are still scared to put in those resources and with the development cycle for a top tier game I do think it's too late at this point. I definitely hope MH3 does well to curtail the trend though.

Shattered memories is on my wish list and I constantly hear great things about it. But it is a niche title at the end of the day, the wii userbase requires games with mass appeal.
 

donny2112

Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,797
1
1,590
Skorp said:
If a company makes a good game for an HD console it will sell if its good.

And advertised like its good. It is a total myth that somehow the numbers that journalists assign to a game can propel a game to success or failure alone. A great game on the PS360 that's not advertised is not going to miraculously sell a lot.
 
Jul 30, 2009
225
0
0
38
East Lansing
Skorp said:
Haven't been on Gaf in a while, hopefully not too late to weigh in.

I own around 40 wii games and I recently got a PS3. When the wii came out everyone got one with hopes of what would come. In between then and now games have gotten better, but they still aren't anywhere near the efforts you see on other consoles (outside of nintendo first party). I recently got a PS2 as well and it's sad there are so many PS2 games that run circles around the "newer" wii titles.

We're finally seeing decent (not really AAA though) titles now. But sadly I'm the only one of my friends left playing my wii. My friends laugh at me when I try to push Red Steel 2, Monster Hunter 3, or similar quality titles which I'm sure I could have sold them on 2 years ago. Third parties simply made a bad first impression and have lost consumer trust. I got one of my friends to get the Conduit and the lag online and glitches turned him off so much I will never get him to try another game even if it is far superior. Another friend and I got Tiger Woods 10, a great game that got a lot of advertising and most probably the best golf video game ever made. In the end though its golf. New Super Mario Brothers Wii had us all laughing and having fun together. But neither of them have any reason to get it when they can play it at my place and there's no online so we could play together otherwise. Again, two years ago, one of my friends at least would have got it.

40 wii games and very few third party titles were really enjoyable to me. Muramasa was the best game I played from a third party in a long time. Neither of them heard about it, one showed interest watching a video. Everyone I know is getting a PS3 now. You better believe nobody is going to go back to wii games after monsters like Uncharted 2 and LittleBigPlanet. What is left on wii that is compelling? High quality multiplayer offerings are nonexistent.

As much as I want to say quality and advertising would help I don't think at this point it is enough. You need more than that now because of the crap that was flung early on. You need quality, advertising, and word of mouth. You need a game that works well in splitscreen, works well online, and has a great single player. If the people still playing their wii can't sell the game to their friends who aren't anymore, the game isn't going to do well.

A contributing factor to my lack of friends is that I decided to buy a Wii rather than a PS3/60. My friends from the college days did the latter.
 

Skorp

Neo Member
Nov 25, 2008
97
0
0
backloggery.com
Very true the advertising does help a lot, but if a quality game on the HD consoles isn't advertised I still think it will sell better than a quality wii game that isn't advertised. Just saying advertising is more important to the wii.

Zero Tolerance said:
A contributing factor to my lack of friends is that I decided to buy a Wii rather than a PS3/60. My friends from the college days did the latter.

Yeah all my friends got wii's after I got one, but most of them are older than me and married with less time to play. Most of my college friends are getting PS3's now after the price cuts. I think another factor is that lots of parents buy wii's for their children whereas many HD owners buy them for themselves. They can afford to buy HD games that they hear about and interest them, whereas the parents aren't going out and buying their children niche third party wii titles. You really need something with mass appeal to be successful on a larger scale on the wii.
 

Loonz

Member
Jan 6, 2006
703
0
1,385
Salamanca, Spain
MYE said:
I hope so, i bought one over the other.
Cant wait to slide that disc on my Wii and bump the old SM thread for sum yumi speculation :D

Bear in mind that I wrote "IMO". I think Shattered Memories is the better game from my biased point of view (I love SH), IMO it's more of a game and it's better done.

That said, you should try HR anyway. I found it deeply flawed, but it's an interesting experience nonetheless. Rent it and decide yourself (it's a short ride, you could probably see it all in a couple of days).
 

Eteric Rice

Member
Jan 13, 2007
16,608
160
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Skorp said:
Very true the advertising does help a lot, but if a quality game on the HD consoles isn't advertised I still think it will sell better than a quality wii game that isn't advertised. Just saying advertising is more important to the wii.



Yeah all my friends got wii's after I got one, but most of them are older than me and married with less time to play. Most of my college friends are getting PS3's now after the price cuts. I think another factor is that lots of parents buy wii's for their children whereas many HD owners buy them for themselves. They can afford to buy HD games that they hear about and interest them, whereas the parents aren't going out and buying their children niche third party wii titles. You really need something with mass appeal to be successful on a larger scale on the wii.

I dunno, Bionic Commando wasn't advertised, and it died pretty harshly I think.
 

Sadist

Member
Feb 2, 2008
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Skorp said:
Everyone always brings up quality and advertising and these are definitely important, but don't explain the sales of surprise third party successes. Why would a company want to invest all this money and take a risk (I know we all wish they would) when they can try smaller budget titles and possibly get lucky with a Ubisoft/EA type success. If a company makes a good game for an HD console it will sell if its good. If they make a quality wii title can you guarentee them it will sell? Companies are still scared to put in those resources and with the development cycle for a top tier game I do think it's too late at this point. I definitely hope MH3 does well to curtail the trend though.

Shattered memories is on my wish list and I constantly hear great things about it. But it is a niche title at the end of the day.
Because that's a bad business model as well? How can you justify for instance 10 $ 2 million projects (including advertisement money) and think: "well, hopefully one will take off"? That's insane. You can spin it all you want, but the facts are third parties just took a huge dump on Wii and afterwards they were stunned that it didn't sell.

I hope for the next Nintendo console they won't cram it full of shovelware....
 
Jun 11, 2006
9,239
0
0
Sadist said:
I hope for the next Nintendo console they won't cram it full of shovelware....
I hope that they actively fight shovelware for their next console. They used to be very discretionary, but now they seem to have the attitude that they should let 3rd parties fling everything at the wall and just see what sticks.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
Jan 13, 2007
16,608
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Sadist said:
Because that's a bad business model as well? How can you justify for instance 10 $ 2 million projects (including advertisement money) and think: "well, hopefully one will take off"? That's insane. You can spin it all you want, but the facts are third parties just took a huge dump on Wii and afterwards they were stunned that it didn't sell.

I hope for the next Nintendo console they won't cram it full of shovelware....

I wish Nintendo would start doing quality control, or limiting certain types of games and rewarding companies who make good, well recieved games with deals (reduced license fees, reduced dev kit costs, etc).

The Wii's number of shovelware is retarded.

I hope that they actively fight shovelware for their next console. They used to be very discretionary, but now they seem to have the attitude that they should let 3rd parties fling everything at the wall and just see what sticks.

They stopped because that was one of the reasons the Playstation took down the N64. Basically, Sony gave devs more freedom to do whatever than Nintendo did.

Personally, I think they should bring it back now. All companies seem to have some quality checking in place except Nintendo.
 

Skorp

Neo Member
Nov 25, 2008
97
0
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backloggery.com
Eteric Rice said:
I dunno, Bionic Commando wasn't advertised, and it died pretty harshly I think.
I was under the impression it wasn't an amazing game. A metacritic of 70 isn't indicative of top notch quality I would say. Haven't played it though so it may be a great game. I dunno, there are always going to be counterexamples. I'm more referring to a game that has a metascore of like 85 or higher, I can't see it doing bad on an HD console. Whereas wii titles that get scores around there still don't get attention all the time.
 

Sadist

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What Nintendo really needs is a better understanding of western third parties, that would help a lot.

As for Japanese developers... the same applies. Allthough now they're releasing DQ IX, MH Tri and Samurai Warriors 3 in Europe though :lol
 

Penguin

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The problem is Nintendo jumped between the two extremes, the n64 had the terrible Dream Team, which limited the number of developers on the console.

And the Wii will make anyone who deems themselves a game developer making a game for it.

I'm not really sure what the stance on the Cube was. :lol
 

Sadist

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http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/n...smatch-for-madworld-says-sega-west-president/

"I guess there's a reference to MadWorld there. Critically it got a lot of acclaim, but commercially it wasn't the success we wanted it to be. Clearly that was a mismatch with the Wii audience - particularly in terms of the amount of cross-ownership between Wii and the other home platforms. If you're going to play a mature-rated game, you're going to get your 360, PC or PS3 out to do so. But you can't knock us for having a go.” - Sega West President and COO Mike Hayes

Hmmm... uhh...