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This is how I see monogamy for Men

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Goro Majima

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This is unrelated but;

Was in a pub probably nearly a decade ago, in Irish pubs you tend to talk to each other. it's normal.

Went out for a cigarette and this dude bragged about how he "bought" his (wife). He recommended it.

Said something like that they'll cook and clean and sex anytime.

I was absolutely appalled that someone could even say that, honestly I was truly shocked. He spoke about it like it was an achievement.

Arranged marriages, ok. Not for me each to their own, but bragging about ownership of someone. That really stuck with me.

EDIT: I was sitting beside her at the table.

EDIT2: corrected context

I'm guessing there's a zero percent chance she was ethnically Irish.

Unless every stereotype I've ever heard about Irish girls is just absolutely incorrect - I'd sooner imagine an Irish girl stabbing someone that claimed to "own her".
 
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Of course, the interests of betas and females are not totally identical here. The female would still prefer the alpha to be the father of her child; she just wants the beta to supply the resources and care to raise it. Which seems to fit in with the chaperonage systems seen in many patriarchal systems, the stigma of bastardy, and the absolute prohibition on adultery.
I've heard different numbers about the percent of children who are not their fathers, from as low something like 5% to as high as 33% or 1 in 3. There is a story where somewhere don't know how a school teacher got their students to do paternity tests, and horror emerged as 1 in 3 or something like that was not a child from their actual father.

So the alpha seed is occuring to some degree, some countries have even made it illegal for fathers to do paternity dna tests on their children without the mother's consent.(and these radical type of gynocentric laws emerge in some countries and tend to spread over time.)

Where women gain political power, they will point their efforts towards getting total reproductive control.
women are like 51% of the population, they have the political power practically everywhere, which is why gynocentric mysandric laws spread throughout worldwide. How can you figure an unemployed man can be jailed for not paying child support? How can you figure a young boy raped by an adult woman owes her child support when he reaches the age of 18? And those are just two of the most egregious examples.
 

Ionian

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I'm guessing there's a zero percent chance she was ethnically Irish.

Unless every stereotype I've ever heard about Irish girls is just absolutely incorrect - I'd sooner imagine an Irish girl stabbing someone that claimed to "own her".

She wasn't no. Just someone he met overseas and basically bought the arrangement. Sickening the way he spoke about her.

An Irish girl would never take that. Was just saddening to witness. Nothing cool or funny about it for me.
 
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EviLore

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In the modern world, you make your own choices. Sleep around, build a lasting relationship, it's up to you. There are manipulative and treacherous human beings represented in both sexes, and there are good and decent people as well. The decisions you make about who you partner up with are among the most important of your life. Choose carefully and things can turn out very well for you in happiness, success, and fulfillment. That is why people do it.
 

OmegaSupreme

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There's value in looking at things from a high-level game theory-esque pov, and there's value in looking at things at a more personal level. Those two got conflated instantly itt, so noone is actually able to say anything meaningful.
 
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lachesis

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I think what each gender wants from their partner "instinctively" in general - haven't really changed much over past millenia, as we are genetically programmed to do so.
But people and their behavioral pattern, political, scientific, social & moral standards have changed much faster rate over past few decades, creating conflict of interest in mating game.
 
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Reality Czar

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OP assumes harems were polyamous, but this wasn't always the case.

Where historical evidence is available, it indicates that the harem was much more likely to be monogamous. For example, in late Ottoman Istanbul, only 2.29 percent of married men were polygynous, with the average number of wives being 2.08. In some regions, like Sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia, prevalence of women in agricultural work leads to wider practice of polygyny, but makes seclusion impractical. In contrast, in Eurasian and North African rural communities that rely on male-dominated plough farming, seclusion is economically possible but polygyny is undesirable. This indicates that the fundamental characteristic of the harem is seclusion of women rather than polygyny.[18]

 
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Mista K

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This thread is looking like a mens club. Sex is complicated and everyone’s needs are different. Some want more, some want less. I think that’s what it boils down to. Personally, I hope to find someone I click with both physically and emotionally, so there’s little chance to think of much else.
 

quickwhips

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This thread is looking like a mens club. Sex is complicated and everyone’s needs are different. Some want more, some want less. I think that’s what it boils down to. Personally, I hope to find someone I click with both physically and emotionally, so there’s little chance to think of much else.
It's possible. 21 years with wife 14 years married. I'm about to turn 40. Life is good. There are lots of good men and women out there don't get caught up with internet thinking.
 

plushyp

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Not specific to this thread but here is what I feel about men/women threads:

Some people have poor luck in attracting bad guys/girls and it then clouds their perception negatively about that particular gender. This leads to generalisations that do more harm than good. Instead of judging people on a whole, judge everyone individually rather than collectively putting down an entire gender because of a few. Once this tribalism is gone, we can move forward rather than insulting each other over ignorance which could be fixed but is exacerbated by insulting that only worsens the situation.
 
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quickwhips

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Not specific to this thread but here I what I feel about men/women threads:
Some people have poor luck in attracting bad guys/girls and it then clouds their perception negatively about that particular gender. This leads to generalisations that do more harm than good. Instead of judging people on a whole, judge everyone individually rather than collectively putting down an entire gender because of a few. Once this tribalism is gone, we can move forward rather than insulting each other over ignorance which could be fixed but is exacerbated by insulting that only worsens the situation.
Still think vier needs a dad hug.
 
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Ozzy Onya A2Z

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Whatever makes you and/your partner(s) happy. Hopefully that doesn't equate to abuse, suffering or trapping etc and delivers a life full of happiness more than anything else. Given a long enough timeline you are going to have great times and shit times in any relationship/family. There isn't a one size fits all. I've see people super happy with open relationships and step-parents curate the best relationships with their kids. It's not a cookie cutter factory and you don't have to give two shits what people think of your relationship/family. Just don't lie to yourself about what makes you happy and communicate for progress from there.
 

Vier

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I'm trying to wrap my head around your questions. It seems like you have two contradictory theories you are trying to reconcile:

1 - Women prefer alpha males and always will.
2 - Women worked with beta males so they will have less sex with alpha males.

These seem to cancel each other out, no? Your scenario makes no logical sense. If women prefer the alpha males, why would they work against them? If they want to have sex with the alpha, why invent having sex with the beta?
It's a concession. The so-called "beta males" are more successful at being providers in modern society than are those who try to be "alpha males"! Absolutely so, in a biological sense anyway. The female strategy would be to then use the beta for resources (whilst conceding sex to the beta to keep security) and then thirsting/cheating with the alpha.

quickwhips quickwhips , I hope this isn't you in 5-10 years:


I also took an intro primatology class a couple of years ago, it was very interesting. The instructor said, and the reading material seemed to agree, that humans are biologically designed for mild polygyny--most males would have one female, a few would have two or three, and a few would have none.

Makes sense to me, and I believe that's the most common non-monogamous mating pattern, but that's just my guess. And not particularly the way I'd choose to live, either . I'm glad we're technologically advanced enough that women are less dependent on men, giving us more options about our relationship styles.
 
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Relativ9

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Women want monogamy but in many cases the return is celibacy. "Look how much sex you get with me!" once they lock a man down it's off the menu.
Women (in general) enjoy sex just as much as men, monogamous or not, if it's different in your experience then I would sooner assume that you're either really shit at picking women (self obsessed gold-diggers) and find the .1% that really are honey traps, or that you're just really shit at sex or don't work on maintaining physical attractiveness.
 

nush

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A long haul flight from wherever you are.
Women (in general) enjoy sex just as much as men, monogamous or not, if it's different in your experience then I would sooner assume that you're either really shit at picking women (self obsessed gold-diggers) and find the .1% that really are honey traps, or that you're just really shit at sex or don't work on maintaining physical attractiveness.


Some of you guys really lack reading comprehension. Go back and find the quantifier in my post.

I'm neither fat or shit at sex. Also I'm speaking from personal experience of ONLY two relationships where women got their feet under the table and "Didn't need to do that any more". I've also been in many relationships where the sex was regular and good. If you want to stealth brag and dismiss opinions and lived experiences of other guys, you do you.
 

Vier

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To be in a successful relationship, women must be monogamous, not the men.. Is it a double standard, yes. But it is what it is.

Women show their commitment through being faithful sexually, men show their commitment through sharing their resources/providing security.

Odd thing is, there are a lot of men content with being monogamous .
 

p_xavier

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Jun 9, 2004
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This is unrelated but;

Was in a pub probably nearly a decade ago, in Irish pubs you tend to talk to each other. it's normal.

Went out for a cigarette and this dude bragged about how he "bought" his (wife). He recommended it.

Said something like that they'll cook and clean and sex anytime.

I was absolutely appalled that someone could even say that, honestly I was truly shocked. He spoke about it like it was an achievement.

Arranged marriages, ok. Not for me each to their own, but bragging about ownership of someone. That really stuck with me.

EDIT: I was sitting beside her at the table.

EDIT2: corrected context
I knew coworkers who had such arrangements and it worked wonders for them. Russian wife who kept 10% of husband's income and sent the money to her family.
 
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Punished Miku

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To be in a successful relationship, women must be monogamous, not the men.. Is it a double standard, yes. But it is what it is.

Women show their commitment through being faithful sexually, men show their commitment through sharing their resources/providing security.

Odd thing is, there are a lot of men content with being monogamous .
Why must women be monogamous? Seems they have 1000x more ability to date multiple people. What if the woman has a decent job?
 
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Some of you guys really lack reading comprehension. Go back and find the quantifier in my post.

I'm neither fat or shit at sex. Also I'm speaking from personal experience of ONLY two relationships where women got their feet under the table and "Didn't need to do that any more". I've also been in many relationships where the sex was regular and good. If you want to stealth brag and dismiss opinions and lived experiences of other guys, you do you.
I think it depends if she's attracted to you or not. If she's attracted to you she will likely want to have sex. But I've heard that sex with someone a woman doesn't find attractive feels to a woman like it feels for a straight man to have sex with another man.
 
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Peggies

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I think it depends if she's attracted to you or not. If she's attracted to you she will likely want to have sex. But I've heard that sex with someone a woman doesn't find attractive feels to the woman like it feels for a straight man to have sex with another man.
It depends on the amount of alcohol you have in your system.
But I guess it's the same with men.
 
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BigBooper

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Really weird how all the MGTOW type are treating it like it's a new gender or religion.
 
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case closed? 50% end in divorce, of the other 50%, 10-20% end in sexless marriages, and those are results from studies not anecdotal. Now if you don't think people are gonna lie, that most are gonna be honest about being in sexless marriages I've got a bridge to sell you. The number in sexless marriages are likely vastly underestimated due to dishonesty.

And even if there's some sex, that does not mean a happy relation. So the majority are unhappy long term anyway you look at it.
 
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StormCell

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a good chunk of the 50% who remain married are unhappy, and a significant number is even stuck in sexless marriages.(note chart was done by youtuber based on anecdotal information from reasons given by others in relations.)
Chart data is mostly made up of source's anecdotal evidence.
 

StormCell

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So I was thinking - it's really amazing what boring classes at college can do for your thought life, pity they don't work that way for my sex life. Anyway, I suppose everybody here is familiar with the genetic theory of human mating strategies : Sperm is cheap to produce, so men seek sex with as many women as possible to maximize the amount of children. On the other hand, women can only have a few children, so they seek the best possible males, maximizing the quality of their children.

On the other hand, humans are not completely products of our genes. If we judge by other primates, and oversimplify a little, the equilibrium state in a tribe is for an alpha male to have all the females, with a bit of illicit sex on the side. Clearly this does not favor the ninety percent of males who are not getting any, or very little. (As an aside, vestiges of this system can still be seen in high schools, not the most civilized of places, where a few males get all the sex, and most have none).

I wonder, then, if monogamy could be seen as a stratagem of the beta males and the females, against the alpha males? The beta males get regular sex, which they would not have under the old system. The females get help in raising their children, which a single alpha cannot supply for the whole harem - not, at any rate, as efficiently as a beta who can concentrate his whole attention on one nuclear family. The alphas get nothing, but they are a small percentage of the population and cannot very well work together anyway, since they seek a winner-takes-all situation.

Is this theory useful for understanding our behavior? I do not offer it as a replacement for the purely genetic theory, but a supplement.

Of course, the interests of betas and females are not totally identical here. The female would still prefer the alpha to be the father of her child; she just wants the beta to supply the resources and care to raise it. Which seems to fit in with the chaperonage systems seen in many patriarchal systems, the stigma of bastardy, and the absolute prohibition on adultery.

Much more interesting than astrophysics, for sure. :messenger_winking_tongue:
You're focused a little too much on one very fine and particular aspect of a society - the sex. I don't think it's really all about sex. For one, if it was, then only the finest and most best-looking male specimen would be the king of the males. This is clearly not the case. That brings us to a crucial question: what even is an alpha? He is strong enough. He is an effective decision maker. He understands how to lead others. Most importantly, others want to follow him.

The more successful societies, which can be seen by military might and technological advancement, come about as a result of alpha males who understand that in order for their tribe or group to survive they must truly be a fit society. This requires having an ability to identify and cultivate in others skills and strengths. Basically, your tribe is just going to get wiped out and all your women will become slaves of some other group if you can't build and construct a means of defending yourself in addition to feeding yourself (as a whole).

Sex is always there, but it's equally important to understand that in order for your society to continue to grow you need the right people procreating. A good king (alpha) understands this. To take this talk biblical, it was literally King David's downfall that he lusted after the wife of one of his officers and sent that man to the front line with orders for that man's soldiers to step back when he stepped forward into the enemy... Oof.

This has more to say about our desires and ability to be happy than it does about sex for it's not just sex that we frequently find ourselves needing something else or something more. We're always waiting for the next video game. We're always wondering what's under some girl's clothes. We're always acutely aware of our fantasies. News flash: it's not the sex that is the source of the unhappiness. It's not your spouse's fault, either.

I've not been married as long as some others, but I know just enough to know that I have exactly everything I need to be happy. I could pursue sex with a different flavor of woman, but after the sex is done what will I have? Another set of demands. What will it bring me? More servitude, surely. If I left one woman to be married to another, will I not find just another personality to adapt to and learn to live with? Will it be an improvement? If that depends on me, will I not simply find my reflection staring back at me through another personality? My wife is pretty wonderful, and knowing my taste I could find pretty wonderful girl out there who would look back at me much the same as my wife and ask me the same questions she would. Well, except this one would be aware of what we did that was wrong. Still... the point is that it's not just about alphas and betas getting sex.

I don't really subscribe to the self thought that I'm an alpha. In fact, in my history I was a very unassuming individual but one who continually found himself leading because it was apparent to me the position was vacant. Take it for what it's worth that alpha/beta standing is more of a modern social media type of construct but in a societal sense the real alphas are the ones who lead with an understanding of how their group will grow to survive. Without that ability to identify and cultivate the right males (in this context) your group is going to get wiped out very quickly.
 
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