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TIME says rap music sucks

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basically.


When the political activist Al Sharpton pivoted from his war against bigmouth radio man Don Imus to a war on bad-mouth gangsta rap, the instinct among older music fans was to roll their eyes and yawn. Ten years ago, another activist, C. Delores Tucker, launched a very similar campaign to clean up rap music. She focused on Time Warner (parent of TIME), whose subsidiary Interscope was home to hard-core rappers Snoop Dogg and Tupac Shakur. In 1995 Tucker succeeded in forcing Time Warner to dump Interscope.

Her victory was Pyrrhic. Interscope flourished, launching artists like 50 Cent and Eminem and distributing the posthumous recordings of Shakur. And the genre exploded across the planet, with rappers emerging everywhere from Capetown to the banlieues of Paris. In the U.S. alone, sales reached $1.8 billion.

The lesson was Capitalism 101: rap music's market strength gave its artists permission to say what they pleased. And the rappers themselves exhibited an entrepreneurial bent unlike that of musicians before them. They understood the need to market and the benefits of line extensions. Theirs was capitalism with a beat.

Today that same market is telling rappers to please shut up. While music-industry sales have plummeted, no genre has fallen harder than rap. According to the music trade publication Billboard, rap sales have dropped 44% since 2000 and declined from 13% of all music sales to 10%. Artists who were once the tent poles at rap labels are posting disappointing numbers. Jay-Z's return album, Kingdom Come, for instance, sold a gaudy 680,000 units in its first week, according to Billboard. But by the second week, its sales had declined some 80%. This year rap sales are down 33% so far.

Longtime rap fans are doing the math and coming to the same conclusions as the music's voluminous critics. In February, the filmmaker Byron Hurt released Beyond Beats and Rhymes, a documentary notable not just for its hard critique but for the fact that most of the people doing the criticizing were not dowdy church ladies but members of the hip-hop generation who deplore rap's recent fixation on the sensational.

Both rappers and music execs are clamoring for solutions. Russell Simmons recently made a tepid call for rappers to self-censor the words nigger and bitch from their albums. But most insiders believe that a debate about profanity and misogyny obscures a much deeper problem: an artistic vacuum at major labels. "The music community has to get more creative," says Steve Rifkin, CEO of SRC Records. "We have to start betting on the new and the up-and-coming for us to grow as an industry. Right now, I don't think anyone is taking chances. It's a big-business culture."

It's the ultimate irony. Since the 1980s, when Run-DMC attracted sponsorship from Adidas, the rap community has aspired to be big business. By the '90s, those aspirations had become a reality. In a 1999 cover story, TIME reported that with 81 million CDs sold, rap was officially America's top-selling music genre. The boom produced enterprises like Roc-A-Fella, which straddled fashion, music and film and in 2001 was worth $300 million. It produced moguls like No Limit's Master P and Bad Boy's Puff Daddy, each of whom in 2001 made an appearance on FORTUNE's list of the richest 40 under 40. Along the way, the music influenced everything from advertising to fashion to sports.

The growth spurt was fueled by sensationalism. Tupac Shakur shot at police, was convicted of sexual abuse and ultimately was murdered in Las Vegas. But Shakur both alive and dead has also sold more than 20 million records. Death Row Records, which released much of Shakur's material, was run by ex-con Suge Knight and dogged by rumors of money laundering. But between 1992 and 1998, the label churned out 11 multiplatinum albums. Gangsta rappers reveled in their outlaw mystique, crafting ultra-violent tales of drive-bys and stick-ups designed to shock and enthrall their primary audience--white suburban teenagers. "Hip-hop seemed dangerous; it seemed angry," says Richard Nickels, who manages the hip-hop band the Roots. "Kurt Cobain killed himself, and rock seemed weak. But then you had these black guys who came out and had guns. It was exciting to white kids."

Hip-hop now faces a generation that takes gangsta rap as just another mundane marker in the cultural scenery. "It's collapsing because they can no longer fool the white kids," says Nickels. "There's only so much redundancy anyone can take."

Artists who never jumped on the gangsta bandwagon point the finger at the boardroom. They accuse major labels of strip-mining the music, playing up its sensationalist aspects for easy sales. "In rock you have metal, alternative, emo, soft rock, pop-rock, you have all these different strains," says Q-Tip, front man for the defunct A Tribe Called Quest. "And there are different strains of hip-hop, but record companies aren't set up to sell these different strains. They aren't set up to do anything more of a mature sort of hip-hop."

Of course, gangsta rap isn't a record-company invention. Indeed, hip-hop's two most celebrated icons, Shakur and Notorious B.I.G., embraced the sort of lyrical content that today has opened hip-hop to criticism. And the music companies, under assault from file-sharing and other alternative distribution channels, are hardly in a position to do R&D. "When I first signed to Tommy Boy, [the A&R person] would take us to different shows and to art museums," says Q-Tip. "There was real mentorship. Today that's largely absent, and we see the results in the music and in the aesthetic." That result is a stale product, defined by cable channels like BET, now owned by Viacom, which seems to consist primarily of gun worship and underdressed women.

During the past decade, record labels have outsourced the business of kingmaking to other artists. Established stars Dr. Dre and Eminem brought 50 Cent to Interscope. Jay-Z founded his own label, cut a distribution deal and began developing his own roster. But most established artists do little development. That leaves the possibility that hip-hop is following the same path that soul and R&B traveled when they descended into disco, which died quickly.

No longer able to peddle sensation, rap's moguls are switching tactics. Simmons, while still something of a hip-hop ambassador, is hawking a new self-help book. Master P, whose estimated worth was once $661 million, watched his label, No Limit, sink into bankruptcy. He recently announced the formation of Take a Stand Records, a label catering to "clean" hip-hop music. "Personally, I have profited millions of dollars through explicit rap lyrics," Master P stated on his website. "I can honestly say that I was once part of the problem, and now it's time to be part of the solution."

Chris Lighty, CEO of Violator Entertainment, whose clients include 50 Cent and Busta Rhymes, is looking at ways that record companies can work with artists in one area where rappers have been innovative: endorsement and branding. Whether it's 50 Cent owning a stake in Vitamin Water or Jay-Z doing a commercial for HP, most of these deals have been brokered by the artists' own camp. But Lighty sees in hip-hop a chance for record labels to generate more sponsorship and endorsements. "Record companies are going to have to make even better records and participate in brand extension. It's the only way they can survive," says Lighty. "We need to change the format, and this is the only way. 50 Cent is a brand. Jay-Z is a brand."

But the current hubbub over indecency poses a direct challenge to that brand strength, as the artist Akon recently discovered. While performing in Trinidad, Akon was videotaped dancing suggestively with a fan who was later revealed to be only 14. The video attracted the ire of conservatives like Bill O'Reilly. In the wake of the controversy, Akon's tour sponsor, Verizon, removed all ringtones featuring his work and retracted its sponsorship. The message was clear: Hip-hop needs a new and improved product.


http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1653639,00.html
 

karasu

Member
I grew up on hip hop, but the vast majority of what passes for hip hop/rap today just baffles me. I mean, virtually every video looks like a parody of what Robin Williams thought a B-Boy was in 1984.
 

karasu

Member
ElectricBlue187 said:
so, in other words, hip hop needs to be more commercialized.

yeah.

got it.


It can't get anymore commercialized. Once you're talking about two million dollar necklaces, you've crossed the point of no return.
 
karasu said:
It can't get anymore commercialized. Once you're talking about two million dollar necklaces, you've crossed the point of no return.

Chris Lighty, CEO of Violator Entertainment, whose clients include 50 Cent and Busta Rhymes, is looking at ways that record companies can work with artists in one area where rappers have been innovative: endorsement and branding. Whether it's 50 Cent owning a stake in Vitamin Water or Jay-Z doing a commercial for HP, most of these deals have been brokered by the artists' own camp. But Lighty sees in hip-hop a chance for record labels to generate more sponsorship and endorsements. "Record companies are going to have to make even better records and participate in brand extension. It's the only way they can survive," says Lighty. "We need to change the format, and this is the only way. 50 Cent is a brand. Jay-Z is a brand."

yeah.
screw rap music if they go further in that direction.
 

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
selling music out your trunk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> signing to Koch
 
So what you're saying is...
519ZVoeLGkL._.jpg
 

btrboyev

Member
this is a good thing.


When a top hip hop hit consists of a song which 90% is the line "party like a rock star" in a really annoying untalented group of rappers trying to sing.


Hip Hop needs a kick in the ass. Look back on the early 90's and 80's, where there was actually was rapping that had a melody.
 
btrboyev said:
this is a good thing.


When a top hip hop hit consists of a song which 90% is the line "party like a rock star" in a really annoying untalented group of rappers trying to sing.


Hip Hop needs a kick in the ass. Look back on the early 90's and 80's, where there was actually was rapping that had a melody.

BING-FUCKING-GO!

Rap and hip hop is shit now!
 

theBishop

Banned
Bullshit. Fishscale was one of the best albums of 2006.

This year, Talib Kwali and Madlib released The Liberation for free online, and it remains one of the strongest records of 2007.

Just like most genres, there's great music out there if you're willing to look for it.
 
is it possible the decline is coming from the fact that their audience the "white suburban teenagers" have internet access and are computer savvy?
 
Not only did the quality of the lyrics of rapmusic drop severely throughout the years, but also the beats. The average rapalbum has maybe one, or two at most, catchy beats, and the rest is just uninspired dogshit. Take Eminem's last albums for example, his beats were so random and whacky. It needs to be more epic and progressive.
 

SpeedingUptoStop

will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Artists who never jumped on the gangsta bandwagon point the finger at the boardroom. They accuse major labels of strip-mining the music, playing up its sensationalist aspects for easy sales. "In rock you have metal, alternative, emo, soft rock, pop-rock, you have all these different strains," says Q-Tip, front man for the defunct A Tribe Called Quest. "And there are different strains of hip-hop, but record companies aren't set up to sell these different strains. They aren't set up to do anything more of a mature sort of hip-hop."
Just about.
 
TIME walks up in the club and yells "AY BAYBAY AY BAYBAY AY BAYBAY AY BAYBAY AY BAYBAY AY BAYBAY".

99.9% of hip hop now is a fucking joke.
 

haunts

Bacon of Hope
So whats the top selling genre currently?

I also like how people condemn a whole genre purely based on songs that play on the radio.

djtiesto said:
Time for America to embrace electronic music, methinks.


The time came and passed. It wont happen now if it didn't happen in the late 90's early 2000's.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
theBishop said:
Bullshit. Fishscale was one of the best albums of 2006.

This year, Talib Kwali and Madlib released The Liberation for free online, and it remains one of the strongest records of 2007.

Just like most genres, there's great music out there if you're willing to look for it.


the problem is that its not as easily accessible as rock music of the same caliber.

q-tip said it best:

Artists who never jumped on the gangsta bandwagon point the finger at the boardroom. They accuse major labels of strip-mining the music, playing up its sensationalist aspects for easy sales. "In rock you have metal, alternative, emo, soft rock, pop-rock, you have all these different strains," says Q-Tip, front man for the defunct A Tribe Called Quest. "And there are different strains of hip-hop, but record companies aren't set up to sell these different strains. They aren't set up to do anything more of a mature sort of hip-hop."
 

Oldschoolgamer

The physical form of blasphemy
Suburban Cowboy said:
is it possible the decline is coming from the fact that their audience the "white suburban teenagers" have internet access and are computer savvy?

Naw dude. Pay no attention that other industries are suffering, because of the same thing. Its just because the nonsense that is on the radio, represents all of the genre, and people are tired of it!

I find it hilarious that people seem to think that "grown up rappers" are going to save the day. Elitism runs rampant, but, I find it astonishing that people tend to forget all of the bullshit that existed "back in the day". The internet just made it easier to broadcast. I would love to be wrong, but face it: if you had Children of Men: The album vs Wild Hogs: The album, which one is going to sell more, here in the States?

Hip Hop was doomed from the start of things. People can only take so much of the same thing, before they do indeed get tired of it: which is a shame, because hip hop isn't just rap, but a variation of artistic mediums, combined under one generalization. Fuck you all for taking down mah soul music! Diversity is nice.

I also find it damned disgusting, that the only way to remedy the situation, would be by whoring out artists, even more than they already are. People think the stuff that is on the radio is bad now, wait to you here some shit with them dropping Coca-Cola in between every line written. Fuck that future.

The fact of the matter is, that America doesn't want to listen to people rap/bitch/whine/sing about the realities of certain issues. Music like that, really hasn't been popular, since...forever. I mean...people don't give a shit about what the fuck goes on down the street, if it doesn't affect them.

I pray that the greedy ass industry will get off of Jobs fucking nuts, and embrace DRM-Less music. Maybe then, people will start buying shit again, so that they don't have to deal with retarded ass drm messing with their mp3 players. And maybe, people will actually support the artists, buy actually buying shit...in general.
 

jehuty

Member
Time is right that mainstream hip-hop is dying, but look at the underground. Thats where its really at. Even acts i dont like like weezy an T.I are selling millions of their mixtapes.
Rap is simply leaving the suburbs and returning to the where it belongs.

Commercial acts will still have their hits and as long as rappers like Nelly, kanye, T.I exist. Rap/hip-hop will always be mainstream, i mean, what the hell else are you gonna dance to in a club? Rock?

All thats gonna happen is that you'll see rap merge with different forms of rock to make some truely unique stuff (see kanye and daft phunk ala stronger).

But yeah, hip-hop needs to be cleansed by fire and it seems that its happening. long live the underground.
 

Enron

Banned
I haven't heard any good hip hop since the early 90s back in the days of A Tribe Called Quest, Leaders of the New School, etc. etc.
 
just remember: Country + Rap = C R A P



(saw that on a t-shirt in New Braunfels, Texas yesterday)










The consensus among my close thirty or so college friends is that they're into more intelligent hip hop. If it's the crap stuff on the radio, it needs to be dissected and cut into parts, blended, and morphed into something different by a competent dj.
 
Hip hop is essentially going through a similar movement that metal/rock went into during the 80s. For a time hair metal ruled the airwaves, sold well, and spawned millions of Def Leppard clones. Eventually sales fell, and finally the entire movement was killed in the early 90s by a new movement (grunge).

In hip hop's case, it's been stuck in a "hair metal" esque slump for far longer, yet is still alive. I'm still waiting for something to pop up and change the genre but instead the mainstream shit just gets louder. It's like a many headed dragon: once the east coast flossing/bling era died, the south took over with stupid "dances" and retarded coon-ery.

Today rap is seen as nothing more than disposable music. People dance to it at the clubs, download their favorite songs on iTunes, and purchase ring tones of the latest jams. What they aren't doing is buying the albums which is telling. As the article shows, no other genre has taken a bigger hit. While mainstream rock is just a bad, people are still going out and buying those albums. Why is this? To me it comes down to the disposable aspect of most mainstream rap: it's seen as nothing else but a few catchy songs to dance to. You don't see any loyal fanbases for these rappers because of this; every 15 minutes a new rapper comes out with a newer, hipper song to dance to, thus making the older ones obsolete. While emo rock and other mainstream rock genres resonate with certain people, rap simply doesn't, at least not to the white people who buy it. No one is out hustlin till the mornin, popping glocks, etc. It's seen as entertainment, while other genres connect to people's actual lives.

In September rap sales are going to go up due to 50 Cent and Kanye West's releases. To me, both represent opposite sides of the spectrum. 50 represents everything that's wrong with rap: the constant fake gangsta bullshit, the repetitive money/hoes/bitches lyrics, etc. People are tired of that, although I'm sure his album will still sell well. Kanye is able to make relevant music without resorting to that bullshit, and actually is able to resonate with people's lives, beliefs, feelings, etc. But Kanye is basically the only rapper who is able to do that and still maintain success with the public. That's going to have to change
 

Tokubetsu

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Hip hop is essentially going through a similar movement that metal/rock went into during the 80s. For a time hair metal ruled the airwaves, sold well, and spawned millions of Def Leppard clones. Eventually sales fell, and finally the entire movement was killed in the early 90s by a new movement (grunge).

In hip hop's case, it's been stuck in a "hair metal" esque slump for far longer, yet is still alive. I'm still waiting for something to pop up and change the genre but instead the mainstream shit just gets louder. It's like a many headed dragon: once the east coast flossing/bling era died, the south took over with stupid "dances" and retarded coon-ery.

Today rap is seen as nothing more than disposable music. People dance to it at the clubs, download their favorite songs on iTunes, and purchase ring tones of the latest jams. What they aren't doing is buying the albums which is telling. As the article shows, no other genre has taken a bigger hit. While mainstream rock is just a bad, people are still going out and buying those albums. Why is this? To me it comes down to the disposable aspect of most mainstream rap: it's seen as nothing else but a few catchy songs to dance to. You don't see any loyal fanbases for these rappers because of this; every 15 minutes a new rapper comes out with a newer, hipper song to dance to, thus making the older ones obsolete. While emo rock and other mainstream rock genres resonate with certain people, rap simply doesn't, at least not to the white people who buy it. No one is out hustlin till the mornin, popping glocks, etc. It's seen as entertainment, while other genres connect to people's actual lives.

In September rap sales are going to go up due to 50 Cent and Kanye West's releases. To me, both represent opposite sides of the spectrum. 50 represents everything that's wrong with rap: the constant fake gangsta bullshit, the repetitive money/hoes/bitches lyrics, etc. People are tired of that, although I'm sure his album will still sell well. Kanye is able to make relevant music without resorting to that bullshit, and actually is able to resonate with people's lives, beliefs, feelings, etc. But Kanye is basically the only rapper who is able to do that and still maintain success with the public. That's going to have to change

I always love when you post in hip hop threads. Somehow you manage to get out what I have going on in mind and to those saying rap in general sucks now, it doesnt, you're just gonna have to look a bit harder for the good shit.
 

mrWalrus

Banned
Your typical rap played on the TV or radio is no better than anything you'd hear out of pop music.

If you bend your ear to some music off the beaten path you might find that hip-hop isn't dead, but then again true heads have known that for ages. So before everyone just keeps saying hip-hop is dead, peep your ears to some of the following.

Madlib/Quasimoto
J Dilla
MF doom
Edan
Flying Lotus
Percee P
Oh No
Kool Keith
Blu
9th Wonder
 
Tokubetsu said:
I always love when you post in hip hop threads. Somehow you manage to get out what I have going on in mind and to those saying rap in general sucks now, it doesnt, you're just gonna have to look a bit harder for the good shit.

There seems to be a double standard with hip hop. While most people on this board seem to only like more underground, unpopular rock/indie type bands, you rarely see any "rock sucks" threads here. Both genres are going through similar problems in terms of musical quality in the mainstream, but both offer great stuff if you look hard enough. Whether it's The Black Keys or Atmosphere lol
 

dskillzhtown

keep your strippers out of my American football
ElectricBlue187 said:
so, in other words, hip hop needs to be more commercialized.

yeah.

got it.


Actually the article said exactly the opposite.


Phoenix is right. It is just the maturation of the genre. But Q-tip's quote pretty much says it all:

"In rock you have metal, alternative, emo, soft rock, pop-rock, you have all these different strains," says Q-Tip, front man for the defunct A Tribe Called Quest. "And there are different strains of hip-hop, but record companies aren't set up to sell these different strains. They aren't set up to do anything more of a mature sort of hip-hop."

Labels have only wanted to promote gangsta rap for a long time. All along there were other kinds of rap out there, but gangsta got the budget. Older people I know pretty much listen to nothing but older rap music because what they hear on the radio is crap. Not to say all rap on the radio sucks, because it doesnt. Hell, all gangsta stuff doesn't suck. But there needs to be some variety, some world that Talib can get played right after 50 in heavy rotation.

It is more complicated issue as just saying "rap sucks" or something silly like that. There is good music out there, it is going to have to take something to get it out there though. something simple as a popular movie coming out with Talib Kweli doing the entire soundtrack that will get labels looking for their Talib clone. Label reps have to be the most unoriginal, non-out of the box thinking people ever, so success for an underrated strain of rap will get them all jumping on the bandwagon. But only if they think there is money in it. Most labels would put out a CD of phone conversations if they thought it would go gold.
 

Jcgamer60

Member
I'm black and even i think Hiphop is shit now. I can't listen to the crap i hear on the radio today. I no longer limit myself to one genre.
 
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