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[Jcgamer60]

All I can say is..

AY BAY BAY!

 

[mrWalrus]

I'm black and even i think Hiphop is shit now. I can't listen to the crap i hear on the radio today. I no longer limit myself to one genre.

No offense (and this is directed towards anyone who listens to the radio) but why are you listening to the radio and expecting to hear good music? Music is like a treasure that should be sought out by each individual. There are beautiful treasures to unlock all over the place. Only listening to the radio is like eating out of drive through windows where they pick out what your going to eat for you.

 

[NumberTwo]

To be honest. The mainstream front is doing exactly what it is always expected to do. Crash. So it can galvanize itself into embracing a more creative persona. This is nothing out of the ordinary to me.

I've also felt like PD. Mainstream hip hop gets lambasted for being souless disposable entertainment when the truth is every genre in the mainstream has its share of disposible tracks.

 

[Gattsu25]

I agree with PD entirely

 

[Jcgamer60]

No offense (and this is directed towards anyone who listens to the radio) but why are you listening to the radio and expecting to hear good music? Music is like a treasure that should be sought out by each individual. There are beautiful treasures to unlock all over the place. Only listening to the radio is like eating out of drive through windows where they pick out what your going to eat for you.

No, i don't only listen to the radio. There are a few good artists out there that make good music like Lupe Fiasco and Kanye, among others. What I was trying to say is that the majority of hiphop music these days are crap imo.

Also, you don't have to tell me the significance of music, for the past couple of years I have been the most open person when it comes to music.

 

[Armitage]

Mainstream music sucks, creative artists don't get the sales they deserve.

Doesn't help that the super popular artists are basically caricatures of themselves.

 

[Diablos]

If we're talking mainstream rock and rap, in general both have been going down the tubes since the mid 90's, but it really started to hurt around 1999-2000 IMO, and it's just been decaying ever since. I've never been a fan of rap, but in the 90's I could at least see what people were getting excited about.

Every now and then, something good comes out in any given genre. As a whole though, mainstream labels always aim for selling the most commercialized music possible these days, and it's a damn shame.

I disagree with what was said about rock somehow being more appealing than hip-hop, because there are different types that the mainstream digs into. This is laughable, as they are referring to what is totally commercialized garbage. There's a LOT of stuff that is completely ignored throughout the rock spectrum, and you could say the same about urban music too.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Mainstream music sucks, creative artists don't get the sales they deserve.

Doesn't help that the super popular artists are basically caricatures of themselves.

Glad you said that.

 

[oracrest]

The mainstream, maybe. With the exception of a handful of artists.

that could be said of any generalization of anything.

But, generally speaking, from most rap I have heard, it's gimmicky, and just about flaunting one's image. The talent of the music itself is very backseat.

Listening to yet another guy talk about how he's better than everyone else.... again, is destined to get boring real quick.

I've heard the occasional artistic hip-hop/rap song, but never on the radio.

 

[Skiptastic]

Blame Eminem. When he fell off, rap fell off.

 

[Jcgamer60]

Blame Eminem. When he fell off, rap fell off.

Eminem was a pretty damn good artist.

 

[Diablos]

Eminem is pretty lame. I've heard his albums, and while initially I was like "eh this isn't bad for rap", I can't listen to anything he does anymore. It's so immature and cheap.

 

[NumberTwo]

that could be said of any generalization of anything.

But, generally speaking, from most rap I have heard, it's gimmicky, and just about flaunting one's image. The talent of the music itself is very backseat.

Listening to yet another guy talk about how he's better than everyone else.... again, is destined to get boring real quick.

I've heard the occasional artistic hip-hop/rap song, but never on the radio.

Well. I purposefully made a short post because i'm tired of speaking upon deaf ears. I said it in another thread but my point is this:

If you want music with a little more substance to it. You're just going to have to search deeper than the radio or these commercialized TV stations. And the thing is, its been that way for decades. Mainstream music has always been catured to a mass audience in mind.

 

[godhandiscen]

I will be damn please the day I go to a party here in USA and they dont play that shit.

 

[oracrest]

Well. I purposefully made a short post because i'm tired of speaking upon deaf ears. I said it in another thread but my point is this:

If you want music with a little more substance to it. You're just going to have to search deeper than the radio or these commercialized TV stations. And the thing is, its been that way for decades. Mainstream music has always been catured to a mass audience in mind.

yeah I know, I was agreeing with you, it just sounded argumentative. My follow-up comment was about while even this generalization is true... rap seems to be even more narsassistic than other music genres, and I could see how that could get boring... even to the masses.

 

[Skiptastic]

Eminem is pretty lame. I've heard his albums, and while initially I was like "eh this isn't bad for rap", I can't listen to anything he does anymore. It's so immature and cheap.

I meant that statement both personally for myself (I liked Em when he was Slim Shady and self-effacing, but started to hate him as he became "serious" about himself) and for rap sales in general. Before he came into the game, rap was in a lull saleswise. Since he stopped being a good artist, rap has gone down saleswise.

Maybe it was right place, right time, but I have the feeling that his presence opened up the world of rap to a new audience, one that increasingly became weary of it when he became less of a factor.

 

[Dreamfixx]

Ya know, I went through my "I'm going to listen to nothing but underground stuff" phase a while back, and I realized that a lot of the underground artists are just as stagnant as the mainstream. Obviously there's more-diverse subject matter, that is a given. But they all seem to be in a perpetual state of nostalgia. How about going forward, using real instruments in unconventional ways, or electronic or something? The mainstream has no lyrical substance but ultimately the songs are fun. I don't wanna go after anyone's favorite underground MC, but great lyrics without a good beat behind it are just great lyrics.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Blame Eminem. When he fell off, rap fell off.

I was actually just saying to myself the other day "Where is that white rapper?"

Seriously, what happened to him?

 

[dr3upmushroom]

Your typical rap played on the TV or radio is no better than anything you'd hear out of pop music.

If you bend your ear to some music off the beaten path you might find that hip-hop isn't dead, but then again true heads have known that for ages. So before everyone just keeps saying hip-hop is dead, peep your ears to some of the following.

Madlib/Quasimoto
J Dilla
MF doom
Edan
Flying Lotus
Percee P
Oh No
Kool Keith
Blu
9th Wonder

Kool Keith is no longer the MC he once was... Sadly.
You forgot to add Del, and Atmosphere.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

The problem's prety simple - it got stale because 98% of rappers are all talking about the same things. The same 5 subject matters over & over, and so much of it is straight fantasy. There's so much bravado in hip hop that it's hard for the music to sound honest at times.

And the big labels are marketing to angry (white) youths looking for an identity, something to wrap their scared selves up in so they can feel tough instead of insecure. So the stuff that is about any kind of serious of mature subject matter tends to miss the mark. Sure there's great hip hop, but the audience for it is smaller so it gets lost in the shuffle.

 

[soul creator]

oh Tay Zonday, will you save us?

 

[ElectricBlue187]

I was actually just saying to myself the other day "Where is that white rapper?"

Seriously, what happened to him?

he got rich, complacent, he's just phoning it in now

 

[Bishman]

I am glad that Hip Hop sales are down. Let all these "hit it and quit it" rappers leave the game and leave the real MCs like Lupe, Kayne, Jay, Common, Talib, and Cham to keep hip hop alive.

All the labels are doing are looking for that one hit single and make straight profit with ringtone $$. WTF @ Soulja boy getting at deal at interscope?!

 

[Nizz]

The problem's prety simple - it got stale because 98% of rappers are all talking about the same things. The same 5 subject matters over & over, and so much of it is straight fantasy. There's so much bravado in hip hop that it's hard for the music to sound honest at times.

And the big labels are marketing to angry (white) youths looking for an identity, something to wrap their scared selves up in so they can feel tough instead of insecure. So the stuff that is about any kind of serious of mature subject matter tends to miss the mark. Sure there's great hip hop, but the audience for it is smaller so it gets lost in the shuffle.

I was about to say the same thing. I stopped listening pretty much because of this, at least on the radio. Talking about the same things over and over. And this coming from a big Hip-Hop fan. This is why I loved Wu-Tang Clan. They had that underground, dirty sound that I loved. An album I've listened to recently and kinda liked was Hi-Tek. The Roots also make good music. Me personally, I've just really started to listen to Spanish music. Funny, I'm Latino and I just recently (within the last 2-3 years) really started listening to Spanish music. Mostly Reggaeton (which you could say is just Spanish Hip-Hop). Maybe Wu-Tang will come back with a dirty, back to the roots, basement sound of their first albums.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Hip hop is no different than any other genre.

You might say "rappers say the same thing!" but that applies to every genre out there. Like every genre, there's certain acts that are on top that have no business being on top; some acts that should be on top but are bottom feeders sales wise. What is so different here?

It isn't. The genre is evolving and people no longer have the rose colored glasses with this new stuff. People are growing up and finding that their genre has changed. How many parents who listened to Led Zeppelin think highly of Fall Out Boy? The audience that likes Fall Out Boy will be aghast at the new rock music being made 20 years down the road. It doesn't matter if its the best stuff ever made, you're going to find the nostalgia crowd hating virtually every second of it.

So relax.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Do any rappers rap about anything other than drugs, guns and whores?

 

[VistraNorrez]

Mainstream music has always been catured to a mass audience in mind.

True, of course, but mainstream music doesn't always mean bad. The Beatles were mainstream through and through, even when they got into drugs, they still made pop music, and it was great.

Musics for the mass audience isn't a bad idea, it's only when one second guesses one's ideas for something they think will appeal to a lot of people that things go sour.

 

[p_xavier]

Do any rappers rap about anything other than drugs, guns and whores?

Yes, bling.

 

[mrWalrus]

Education time peoples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfh0lPX22A4

Madlib:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HB_vbEoykM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHEdGDyDiG0&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srp73UMcp3o

Dudley Perkins prod. by Madlib
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfWY4ytlF-w

Madvillain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSbErs-H6Pw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NFzkbY7NbU

MF Doom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlTIo89z2ck

King Geedorah (aka MF Doom):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vET-sG1McCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z05FFcaj5Y

Lootpack:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOqChMLbtt8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DotGwdrNyM&mode=related&search=

J Dilla:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdU3LthTHYY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxofsXyW4uU

Edan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cpShqcqptY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRWIPzS_QBw

Kool Keith:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEvbyHT0GOo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Vw8wMr5s4

Flying Lotus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrncxyd33dY


'hip-hop is dead' threads be gone.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

Yes, bling.

Point and case, they have a limited audience due to their song content.

 

[NumberTwo]

True, of course, but mainstream music doesn't always mean bad.

Oh, of course not. In fact, I think the a lot of the blame falls on the public itself for buying into this shitty music. What we hear on the radio in a nut shell reflects the tastes of the general public.

 

[Greenpanda]

So whats the top selling genre currently?

Pre-teen pop, I'd imagine.

Hannah Montana, High School Musical, etc. are all huge and top sellers. The HSM1 soundtrack was the #1 selling album of last year.

edit:

My feeling is the real reason why those kind of albums sell so well is that parents BUY those albums for their kids, whereas hip-hop & rock albums are targeted to teens & college students who just illegally download them.

I think over the next couple years we're really going to see downloading trends reshape the music industry. Genres where the fans are more apt to buy CDs -- teen/tween pop, country, Christian -- are going to become ascendant, whereas the pop, hip-hop, and rock listeners may really find themselves regretting not giving more money to their favorite artists...

 

[Yixian]

The majority of hip hop is bullshit. Same's true of of classical music - for every Bach there were a hundred mediocre composers. But that's beside the point -

The point is hip hop is the pulse of a modern working class generation, for better or worse it's one of the indicators of the philosophical changes in the societies of some of the world's poorest. It's constantly changing to reflect the aspirations of the least privileged in the communities whom it has come to represent. There's something to be learnt from even the worst of rap - bling is more than just a fashion statement, it's what happens when people use materialism to elevate themselves over the social ostricisation of their parents. Gangsta rap is more than just attitude, it's the sign of communities imploding under their own social frustrations.

In my opinion there's the most tragic and the most noble of the modern world in hip hop, there's so much about it I despise, and so much about it that inspires me.

This is what people like TIME misunderstand, it's not about the Top 40, it's like life itself, for better or worse it's not something I could ever bring myself to ignore, I have to listen, I have to listen.

Ignoring rap would to me be like chucking away the Dead Sea Scrolls because "I'm not a fan of the artwork".

The number one rule when listening to hip hop: it's not what they are saying, but why they are saying it. The rappers may or may not even be conscious of "why" themselves. As soon as you realise that it becomes a window on much of the urban and third world.

 

[Mumbles]

Ya know, I went through my "I'm going to listen to nothing but underground stuff" phase a while back, and I realized that a lot of the underground artists are just as stagnant as the mainstream. Obviously there's more-diverse subject matter, that is a given. But they all seem to be in a perpetual state of nostalgia. How about going forward, using real instruments in unconventional ways, or electronic or something? The mainstream has no lyrical substance but ultimately the songs are fun. I don't wanna go after anyone's favorite underground MC, but great lyrics without a good beat behind it are just great lyrics.

From my perspective, most of the mainstream stuff *isn't* fun. I'd say the same thing about the beats that you did about the underground guys, except that the mainstream manages to come up with annoying hooks and clumsy lyrics that don't work with the beats at all.

 

[HolyStar]

good thing we have Kanye West. He is the best thing we have in rap today.

 

[HolyStar]

^

And his wack ass album helped keep it that way.

No, just no.

 

[Stoney Mason]

The point is hip hop is the pulse of a modern working class generation,

 

[cool_dude_2049]

but seriously I don't know why some of these songs say "featuring" on them when all they do is grunt in the background. Some of that stuff shouldn't even be playing on the radio. They might as well just have the beat going in the background without the words; same thing.



Bring back the Chronic.

 

[mrmrec2]

good thing we have Kanye West. He is the best thing we have in rap today.

That's not saying much. ONE artist for an entire genre of music. Yikes!

 

[mckmas8808]

^

And his wack ass album helped keep it that way.

Bullshit. Nas is still top 5 alive today. It's Radio stations fault for playing A BAY BAY 50 times, but not playing songs like "For the People" by Common.

There's no diversity. The samething would happen to the videogame industry too. Imagine a world where games like Madden, GEARS, and GTA were the only games that sold. And imagine if those games were the only games being pushed by the videogame industry execs.

 

[Fina1e]

Mainstream rap has become so damn bad. It's so unbearable at times, they are repeating the same lyrics and lines almost every song. Every song is about money, hoes, cars, bling, or something around that.

Bring back Warren G.

 

[weepy]

Do any rappers rap about anything other than drugs, guns and whores?

Do you mean hip hop now or hip hop in general cause this question is really exposing your ignorance towards the genre.

 

[mckmas8808]

Hip hop is essentially going through a similar movement that metal/rock went into during the 80s. For a time hair metal ruled the airwaves, sold well, and spawned millions of Def Leppard clones. Eventually sales fell, and finally the entire movement was killed in the early 90s by a new movement (grunge).

In hip hop's case, it's been stuck in a "hair metal" esque slump for far longer, yet is still alive. I'm still waiting for something to pop up and change the genre but instead the mainstream shit just gets louder. It's like a many headed dragon: once the east coast flossing/bling era died, the south took over with stupid "dances" and retarded coon-ery.

Today rap is seen as nothing more than disposable music. People dance to it at the clubs, download their favorite songs on iTunes, and purchase ring tones of the latest jams. What they aren't doing is buying the albums which is telling. As the article shows, no other genre has taken a bigger hit. While mainstream rock is just a bad, people are still going out and buying those albums. Why is this? To me it comes down to the disposable aspect of most mainstream rap: it's seen as nothing else but a few catchy songs to dance to. You don't see any loyal fanbases for these rappers because of this; every 15 minutes a new rapper comes out with a newer, hipper song to dance to, thus making the older ones obsolete. While emo rock and other mainstream rock genres resonate with certain people, rap simply doesn't, at least not to the white people who buy it. No one is out hustlin till the mornin, popping glocks, etc. It's seen as entertainment, while other genres connect to people's actual lives.

In September rap sales are going to go up due to 50 Cent and Kanye West's releases. To me, both represent opposite sides of the spectrum. 50 represents everything that's wrong with rap: the constant fake gangsta bullshit, the repetitive money/hoes/bitches lyrics, etc. People are tired of that, although I'm sure his album will still sell well. Kanye is able to make relevant music without resorting to that bullshit, and actually is able to resonate with people's lives, beliefs, feelings, etc. But Kanye is basically the only rapper who is able to do that and still maintain success with the public. That's going to have to change

Excellent post PD. And I blame radio stations for this too. The DJs and program directors just don't care about releasing new hit songs anymore.

Hell you have youtube creating more hits songs than you radio stations. A lot of dance songs have started on the internet. Then it becomes a meme and people start to notice that a particular dance has like 2 million hits of youtube so they start playing it on the radio.

The thing is in some cases that artist wouldn't even have an album coming out soon. And also there's a couple of times when the radio stations get the song 6 months late because they are too busy playing the same 20 damn songs in a row. This is a HUGE problem imo.

 

[mckmas8808]

Labels have only wanted to promote gangsta rap for a long time. All along there were other kinds of rap out there, but gangsta got the budget. Older people I know pretty much listen to nothing but older rap music because what they hear on the radio is crap. Not to say all rap on the radio sucks, because it doesnt. Hell, all gangsta stuff doesn't suck. But there needs to be some variety, some world that Talib can get played right after 50 in heavy rotation.

It is more complicated issue as just saying "rap sucks" or something silly like that. There is good music out there, it is going to have to take something to get it out there though. something simple as a popular movie coming out with Talib Kweli doing the entire soundtrack that will get labels looking for their Talib clone. Label reps have to be the most unoriginal, non-out of the box thinking people ever, so success for an underrated strain of rap will get them all jumping on the bandwagon. But only if they think there is money in it. Most labels would put out a CD of phone conversations if they thought it would go gold.

See the problem is it's not gansta rap's fault. When gangsta rap was in big time rap sales were great.

In 1999 some of the biggest rappers were guys like Jay-Z, DMX, Nas, Rockafella music, Ruff Ryder music, Cash Money Music, No Limit Records music, etc.

Nowadays you have songs like AY BAY BAY and Party Like a Rock Star getting the most spins.

Those songs aren't gangsta. People need to realize that when the gangsta started to leave hiphop music that's when sales declined.

 

[evilromero]

CB4!

 

[Flo_Evans]

Hip hop is essentially going through a similar movement that metal/rock went into during the 80s. For a time hair metal ruled the airwaves, sold well, and spawned millions of Def Leppard clones. Eventually sales fell, and finally the entire movement was killed in the early 90s by a new movement (grunge).

In hip hop's case, it's been stuck in a "hair metal" esque slump for far longer, yet is still alive. I'm still waiting for something to pop up and change the genre but instead the mainstream shit just gets louder. It's like a many headed dragon: once the east coast flossing/bling era died, the south took over with stupid "dances" and retarded coon-ery.

Today rap is seen as nothing more than disposable music. People dance to it at the clubs, download their favorite songs on iTunes, and purchase ring tones of the latest jams. What they aren't doing is buying the albums which is telling. As the article shows, no other genre has taken a bigger hit. While mainstream rock is just a bad, people are still going out and buying those albums. Why is this? To me it comes down to the disposable aspect of most mainstream rap: it's seen as nothing else but a few catchy songs to dance to. You don't see any loyal fanbases for these rappers because of this; every 15 minutes a new rapper comes out with a newer, hipper song to dance to, thus making the older ones obsolete. While emo rock and other mainstream rock genres resonate with certain people, rap simply doesn't, at least not to the white people who buy it. No one is out hustlin till the mornin, popping glocks, etc. It's seen as entertainment, while other genres connect to people's actual lives.

In September rap sales are going to go up due to 50 Cent and Kanye West's releases. To me, both represent opposite sides of the spectrum. 50 represents everything that's wrong with rap: the constant fake gangsta bullshit, the repetitive money/hoes/bitches lyrics, etc. People are tired of that, although I'm sure his album will still sell well. Kanye is able to make relevant music without resorting to that bullshit, and actually is able to resonate with people's lives, beliefs, feelings, etc. But Kanye is basically the only rapper who is able to do that and still maintain success with the public. That's going to have to change

excellent post! It seems there is no room for truth in music anymore. I was watching "Dixie Chicks: shut up and sing" documentary the other day... Now I hate the fucking dixie chicks and country in general, but what happened to them is sad. They went form #1 to blacklisted because they spoke out against the war. To me that is what music is, people expressing their thoughts through their art. When there is no thought its forgettable throw away trash. That seems to be the only thing that can get airplay now. SAD.

 

[Useff]

Do any rappers rap about anything other than drugs, guns and whores?

No. It's impossible.

 

[HolyStar]

excellent post! It seems there is no room for truth in music anymore. I was watching "Dixie Chicks: shut up and sing" documentary the other day... Now I hate the fucking dixie chicks and country in general, but what happened to them is sad. They went form #1 to blacklisted because they spoke out against the war. To me that is what music is, people expressing their thoughts through their art. When there is no thought its forgettable throw away trash. That seems to be the only thing that can get airplay now. SAD.

Well, to be fair, Country music is for "good ol folks" and represents america, at least to its fans. Look, you just dont say stuff against that demographic.

 

[StanTheCaddy]

rap is garbage now, its amazing how 10-15 years ago my cd collection was primarily hip hop/rap with a splash of rock/alternative to a complete 180 with it primarily being rock/alternative now with maybe 2-3 hip hop albums a year

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

Country is knocked, and I don't like a vast majority of it, but cumulatively it generally sells the most.

Rap has turned into a self-parody. What was once menacing and different is now cheesy and predictable. It's the same material ad nauseam. Women, cars, sex, clubs, jewelry, etc. People are tired of hearing about it. Can anyone honestly take any of these mainstream rappers seriously? I sure as hell can't but you can bet your ass that they take themselves too seriously.

Rock music, on the other hand, is making a comeback. The surge of independent artists getting noticed and the re-emergence of older acts such as NIN, The Smashing Pumpkins, and Radiohead keeps things going. There are many genres in mainstream rock, but mainstream rap is nothing more than several minutes of bragging over a lazy beat. And people are fucking tired of it. 50 is threatening retirement and lets pray that others will join him.