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[illmatic22]

They made the right choice.

I just don't see a game like J&D being as financially viable as Uncharted or The Last of Us. Ratchet and Sly haven't done for the PS3 what Uncharted and TLoU have.

Preach

 

[StuBurns]

I think a new Jak&Daxter would sell very well.
Lets not forget tha Naughty Dog has finally reached AAA status this gen from Uncharted, even though they have always made quality products and have always developed circles around most during the ps2 era. Their work in Crash, and Jak&Daxter is just as impressive as their current work.

Now that they have this recognition I honestly don't see why it wouldn't sell. After all

Spoiler

Jak is way more fun than Uncharted.

And I think they had already stated that Sony had nothing to do with their decisions to work on a specific project. Basically they get green lite with whatever they come up with.

Naughty Dog aren't like some sort of household name. No one outside of the core gaming audience would know who they are, and even if they did, I don't think it's going to sell copies of a game.

TLoU was not only excellent, it was also very much a part of the zeitgeist, and released during a major gaming lull. It was a perfect storm, and whilst 'From the makers of Uncharted', certainly didn't hurt, I doubt it's responsible for much of the game's success.

 

[Nightengale]

Anyone who talks about the financial viability perspective needs to go back and watch the entirety of Druckmann's presentation.

He did not say it outright, but for what it was worth, Sony had practically already greenlighted the new Jak game, and it was ND who went back to Sony and told them "sorry, we kinda have no real direction to take this game forward", and came back with TLoU instead.

 

[Himself]

I definitely didn't expect to see this many people posting that they're happy about Jak being dropped. TLoU is great and all, but a new Jak game would be incredible. Did no one note how scant good 3D platformers are nowadays? C'monnnnn PS4!!

 

[StuBurns]

Anyone who talks about the financial viability perspective needs to go back and watch the entirety of Druckmann's presentation.

He did not say it outright, but for what it was worth, Sony had practically already greenlighted the new Jak game, and it was ND who went back to Sony and told them "sorry, we kinda have no real direction to take this game forward", and came back with TLoU instead.

That seems to imply you think Sony are the only people who care about the sales. Why wouldn't Naughty Dog themselves? It must be a huge sense of accomplishment to launch a new IP to very strong sales. And I imagine there are greater financial rewards for more successful releases, along with even more creative control the next time around.

 

[Mileena]

Only want if like Jak 1. I need another Mario 64 sequel since Nintendo is busy doing 3DS game on Wii U.

Never played Jak 2 and lost interest in 3 a couple hours in. First game is good tho!

 

[doemaaan]

Bought the HD Jak collection last year. First game was fine, but I can't fucking stand the second. The biggest issue is not being able to lock-on and/or strafe. I've had so many deaths because if that. Anyway, it's not a problem for me anymore. I threw that piece of shit into a drawer somewhere. Right next to Valkyria Chronicles and FF7 Crisis Core.

 

[Byronic Hero]

This makes no sense.
They are completely different developers, besides the clear difference in Skill/ability between SuckerPunch and Sanzaru. Of course they would have done something different.
And what makes you think that they would try to make Sly more realistic? What do you mean by their style has changed? Their style didn't change they just made a different game with Infamous.

I'm going by what they have given us in the last couple of years. It's entirely possible that they would be able to make a cartoony style game again, I'm just saying that since they have had some success with their realistic style, that they would be smart to keep it going.

Them going the same way as ND would have would have been a logical decision. That's all I'm saying.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I'm going by what they have given us in the last couple of years. It's entirely possible that they would be able to make a cartoony style game again, I'm just saying that since they have had some success with their realistic style, that they would be smart to keep it going.

Them going the same way as ND would have would have been a logical decision. That's all I'm saying.

Very true. Like ND they used to make cartoony 3D platformers but then shifted to darker games with a more realistic artstyle this gen, though unlike ND they went the sandbox route.

 

[Vasili2K38]

I have completed that game.

Yes my statement still stands. I liked the story.. them controls, oh god.

I have played the game.

Its wonky stealthy uncharted. The story was nice. They got that good.

Yes.

You haven't played the game, o you're trolling.

Please elaborate how TLoU is Uncharted.

And more than two sentences.

Please.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Ehh, I love Jak, but ND's platforming design has gone completely to shit so this probably would have been bad.

 

[Itchy//Tasty]

I keep seeing this thread title but not seeing the word 'originally', and heart stops for a second. I've fallen for it like eight times now. WHY WON'T I LEARN

 

[Acrylic7]

Naughty Dog aren't like some sort of household name. No one outside of the core gaming audience would know who they are, and even if they did, I don't think it's going to sell copies of a game.

TLoU was not only excellent, it was also very much a part of the zeitgeist, and released during a major gaming lull. It was a perfect storm, and whilst 'From the makers of Uncharted', certainly didn't hurt, I doubt it's responsible for much of the game's success.

Cant really agree here.
I think that their Uncharted status helps sell their current and future games, and I also think that plenty of people know who ND are. Its most definitely part of the games success.

Toss out a Jak4 with "From the makers of 'Uncharted (GOTY)' and 'The Last of Us(GOTY)" and the numbers would be great. What Im trying to say is, I don't think that they are capable of releasing a game that wouldn't sell well at this point.

 

[StuBurns]

Cant really agree here.
I think that their Uncharted status helps sell their current and future games, and I also think that plenty of people know who ND are. Its most definitely part of the games success.

Toss out a Jak4 with "From the makers of 'Uncharted (GOTY)' and 'The Last of Us(GOTY)" and the numbers would be great. What Im trying to say is, I don't think that they are capable of releasing a game that wouldn't sell well at this point.

The Crash games sold better than the Uncharted series. I don't know why you think now is some special moment in time.

 

[bigmf]

Wait, Uncharted with zombies? Wouldn't that be... Uncharted?

 

[Acquiescence]

I keep seeing this thread title but not seeing the word 'originally', and heart stops for a second. I've fallen for it like eight times now. WHY WON'T I LEARN

They could always get on and make a Jak 4 now. Even folks who loved TLoU don't want a sequel to it anyway - everybody wins!

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Cant really agree here.
I think that their Uncharted status helps sell their current and future games, and I also think that plenty of people know who ND are. Its most definitely part of the games success.

Toss out a Jak4 with "From the makers of 'Uncharted (GOTY)' and 'The Last of Us(GOTY)" and the numbers would be great. What Im trying to say is, I don't think that they are capable of releasing a game that wouldn't sell well at this point.

For what it's worth, when I worked it retail, random people would recognize Naughty Dog's name when I sold them TLoU. A guy getting a game for his son would be like "Oh! Naughty Dog! They make good games."

They might not be a household name like Nintendo, but they aren't exactly under the radar, either.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I would have preferred Jak and Daxter, if only because there aren't very many 3D platformers and there are far too many "narrative focused" shooters.

 

[RealityPales]

I think a new Jak&Daxter would sell very well.
Lets not forget tha Naughty Dog has finally reached AAA status this gen from Uncharted, even though they have always made quality products and have always developed circles around most during the ps2 era. Their work in Crash, and Jak&Daxter is just as impressive as their current work.

Now that they have this recognition I honestly don't see why it wouldn't sell. After all

Spoiler

Jak is way more fun than Uncharted.

And I think they had already stated that Sony had nothing to do with their decisions to work on a specific project. Basically they get green lite with whatever they come up with.

They reached AAA status because they made game of the year contending, top-selling franchises. I love Jak as much as the next guy, but I really don't see it shifting hardware or units this gen or next. I think those games worked last gen and prior, but the landscape is so different these days - unless you're Nintendo.

 

[explodet]

I was at this lecture. When I saw Daxter on the projection, I immediately thought "I can't wait to hear what GAF has to say about this!"

You haven't disappointed.

 

[Acrylic7]

The Crash games sold better than the Uncharted series. I don't know why you think now is some special moment in time.

Crash was far too long ago, I honesty don't think that's a relevant point. Thats waaaay off of everyones mind.

They reached AAA status because they made game of the year contending, top-selling franchises. I love Jak as much as the next guy, but I really don't see it shifting hardware or units this gen or next. I think those games worked last gen and prior, but the landscape is so different these days - unless you're Nintendo.

No, they made AAA status because of Uncharted, even though they had always done work on par and better than Uncharted.
Uncharted doesn't move hardware either from what I understand.

And your right, the landscape has changed. There are basically no platformers on the market except for a few that have no recognition and support. A Jak 4 from ND wouldn't push hardware but definitely sell well.

 

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

So they made the only genuinely good ND game since Crash Bandicoot 3?

I'm okay with this.

edit: Well CTR was pretty fucking badass as well, but the point still stands.

 

[RurouniZel]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!

I'd rather have played a new Jak and Daxter! >>;

 

[Jomjom]

They made the right decision.

 

[arne]

For what it's worth, when I worked it retail, random people would recognize Naughty Dog's name when I sold them TLoU. A guy getting a game for his son would be like "Oh! Naughty Dog! They make good games."

They might not be a household name like Nintendo, but they aren't exactly under the radar, either.

My anecdotal experience is that we did a great job attaching "Naughty Dog" to the Crash series and the Jak series, but the connection wasn't that strong when it came to Uncharted, and now TLOU. I've run across plenty of who recognize our studio, and talk about Crash or Jak, but didn't really notice we made Uncharted.

Granted, there are more wrinkles than that, but that's what I've found. Mostly from people at restaurants, coffee shops, etc. seeing my employee badge and going "Oh, Crash!" or "Oh, Jak and Daxter!"

 

[HueyFreeman]

I'm glad they went with TLOU

And yet my brain actually shatters to think what this team - UC2 and TLOU pedigree - could have done to change platformers. Sigh.

I just don't see a game like J&D being as financially viable as Uncharted or The Last of Us. Ratchet and Sly haven't done for the PS3 what Uncharted and TLoU have. I think Sony would rather have ND focus their attention on T-M rated demographics. They have the right idea - have first-party studios focus on their existing franchises while they outsource yesteryear properties to teams like Sanzaru, Superbot, etc.

Also, what do you genuinely believe will shift more PS4 units? Jak 4 or Uncharted 4. Come on. Imagine ND trying to justify Jak 4 over an Uncharted 4 in front of SCE execs.

Sanzuru is not an a list developer and Insomniac has become pretty spotty this gen, nowhere near the pedigree that the UC2 Naughty Dogs have. It's not that we would have had just another j&d title - it's that we would have had a JD title by these guys

 

[Aureon]

Solid financial decision.

Spoiler

I HOPE WHOEVER IS RESPONSABLE FOR THIS RAPIDLY RECOGNIZES HIS CRIMES AGAINST VIDEOGAMING AND ART AS A WHOLE

 

[Coffee Dog]

You haven't played the game, o you're trolling.

Please elaborate how TLoU is Uncharted.

And more than two sentences.

Please.

It is an incredibly linear narrative and setpiece focused 3rd person shooter. How do you need more than two sentences for that? Unless you're going to try and state that the presence of stealth elements suddenly makes it not a shooter then it's not really contestable that from a design standpoint, it shares very many elements with uncharted.

 

[Byronic Hero]

My anecdotal experience is that we did a great job attaching "Naughty Dog" to the Crash series and the Jak series, but the connection wasn't that strong when it came to Uncharted, and now TLOU. I've run across plenty of who recognize our studio, and talk about Crash or Jak, but didn't really notice we made Uncharted.

Granted, there are more wrinkles than that, but that's what I've found. Mostly from people at restaurants, coffee shops, etc. seeing my employee badge and going "Oh, Crash!" or "Oh, Jak and Daxter!"

This makes me smile.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Solid financial decision.

Spoiler

I HOPE WHOEVER IS RESPONSABLE FOR THIS RAPIDLY RECOGNIZES HIS CRIMES AGAINST VIDEOGAMING AND ART AS A WHOLE

My thoughts exactly.

It is an incredibly linear narrative and setpiece focused 3rd person shooter. How do you need more than two sentences for that? Unless you're going to try and state that the presence of stealth elements suddenly makes it not a shooter then it's not really contestable that from a design standpoint, it shares very many elements with uncharted.

You're right in that the two series follow the same basic formula, but the change in focus from "jump on stuff and then shoot people" to "hide from people and then shoot them" makes a huge difference. Joel might look tougher than Nate, but you feel much more frail and vulnerable in TLoU than in Uncharted. The basic "go here - shoot people - watch beautiful setpiece" is the same, yeah, but the change from adventure to stealth makes all the difference.

 

[MrRegularGuy]

So from the looks of it, we all want a Jak, but just like the original... Colourful, big open world collectathon with none of the edginess that tained 2 and 3?
I wouldn't mind if vehicles were scraped too.

I work at Naughty Dog

Shouldn't you be giving us Uncharted 4 and a new Jak?
You're all just playing on those dev kits, aren't you?

 

[rjc571]

People bigging up the more purely platforming focused sections of Jak 2 are failing to note that they constitute a shockingly small part of the game, the bridge to the baron's palace is over in like 3 minutes.
Mar's Tomb fortunately lasts longer and even that gets soured by the poor camera placement for Daxter's chase section.

Otherwise the majority of the game is spent participating in a variety of awful tasks (Turrets, escort missions, enemy waves and checkpoint races, like a weakest hits collection of video game missions) and traversing the most cumbersome and filler open world i've ever had the misfortune of spending an extended amount of time in while the remnants of platforming that remain get jumbled together with the games thoroughly unsatisfying combat, what a wretched game it is.

Go back and play it again. The ratio of platforming to non platforming gameplay is about the same as it was in Jak 1. There's only one turret mission, a couple of escort missions, and one required checkpoint race in the whole game. Just like I said earlier, you're letting your preconceived notions about the type of game it is get in the way of the facts.

Bought the HD Jak collection last year. First game was fine, but I can't fucking stand the second. The biggest issue is not being able to lock-on and/or strafe. I've had so many deaths because if that. Anyway, it's not a problem for me anymore. I threw that piece of shit into a drawer somewhere. Right next to Valkyria Chronicles and FF7 Crisis Core.

PSSST... You're not supposed to play it like a third person shooter. It's a platformer.

 

[RealityPales]

I'm glad they went with TLOU

And yet my brain actually shatters to think what this team - UC2 and TLOU pedigree - could have done to change platformers. Sigh.

Sanzuru is not an a list developer and Insomniac has become pretty spotty this gen, nowhere near the pedigree that the UC2 Naughty Dogs have. It's not that we would have had just another j&d title - it's that we would have had a JD title by these guys

I don't think Bruce Straley and Neil Druckman have interest in making a Jak game after TLoU, to be honest. Seems like a peculiar deviation.

That's like Rockstar North going back to Lemmings...

 

[cebri.one]

http://youtu.be/Le6qIz7MjSk?t=16m25s

What a great story, kind of like it more than the one they finally chose.

 

[Byronic Hero]

So from the looks of it, we all want a Jak, but just like the original... Colourful, big open world collectathon with none of the edginess that tained 2 and 3?
I wouldn't mind if vehicles were scraped too.

Not me. I'd be fine if they expanded on the 2 & 3 formula a bit more. Mix in a bit of Uncharted/TLoU style set-piece moments an I'd be golden.

 

[arne]

It is an incredibly linear narrative and setpiece focused 3rd person shooter. How do you need more than two sentences for that? Unless you're going to try and state that the presence of stealth elements suddenly makes it not a shooter then it's not really contestable that from a design standpoint, it shares very many elements with uncharted.

But, but... you just described probably maybe 30% - 50% the games in the action-adventure genre with that sentence.

 

[Acrylic7]

I don't think Bruce Stanley and Neil Druckman have interest in making a Jak game after TLoU, to be honest. Seems like a peculiar deviation.

That's like Rockstar North going back to Lemmings...

man, its nothing like that.
Jak is a very good game.

I will rep Jak 2 until I die.

 

[whoszed]

Say what now?

I'll be a whole lot more interested in PS4 when ND has a game on it. I mean, I'm loving every game they put out these days so how could the streak stop.

 

[NervousXtian]

A very sound financial decision for sure. No way Jak would sell all that many units.

I know different, but the last few Ratchet games didn't exactly light up the charts, and this would have been doomed to mediocre sales.

man, its nothing like that.
Jak is a very good game.

I will rep Jak 2 until I die.

So was Lemmings... game of a different era is the point.

 

[HueyFreeman]

I don't think Bruce Stanley and Neil Druckman have interest in making a Jak game after TLoU, to be honest. Seems like a peculiar deviation.

That's like Rockstar North going back to Lemmings...

I'm not even saying they should. I'm just saying that the game that would have resulted from that would have been a fucking landmark. And I think the platformer genre deserves a non Mario game like that, in this day and age.

Also it's Bruce Straley.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I don't think Bruce Stanley and Neil Druckman have interest in making a Jak game after TLoU, to be honest. Seems like a peculiar deviation.

That's like Rockstar North going back to Lemmings...

You know, it would be pretty interesting if devs who are now known for gritty games go back to making cartoony games again. I'd pay top dollar for that. Shows us what they can do with all they learned during the past years.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

If it would have been like the first one, then YAY. Didn't like 3 and never really bothered to play 2.

 

[KalBalboa]

I imagine a new Jak game would feel a bit like Fallout or Red Dead in some respects, sans some RPG elements.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

man, its nothing like that.
Jak is a very good game.

I will rep Jak 2 until I die.

Oh man, me too. Jak 2 was fantastic, even if, like many others, I much prefer the mysterious and whimsical setting of the first game. Jak 2's main problem was lack of focus and growing pains - like the game was trying to figure out how to evolve from a strictly 3D platformer into a broader genre while still feeling like Jak. As a result, there were some wonky design decisions (the infamous checkpoints - or lack thereof) and the disproportionate amount of platforming compared to shooting and driving. And escorting...

Yeah, Jak 2 had issues, but it was great. The sheer size of Haven City was amazing back in 2004, and even though the bright and fantastical had become the dark and gritty, it still definitely felt like Jak's world.

 

[8byte]

Hasn't this been basically known for some time, just never confirmed?

 

[RealityPales]

man, its nothing like that.
Jak is a very good game.

I will rep Jak 2 until I die.

hey now, Lemmings was awesome too!

I just think oldies like us need to cope with the fact that just like us, Naughty Dog has grown up.

 

[MrRegularGuy]

If it would have been like the first one, then YAY. Didn't like 3 and never really bothered to play 2.

2 was "we Ratchet and GTA now". You were basically locked in a small city and could only go out to small areas... The city had hijackable cars and police (which were toned down in 3), but if you pissed off the police (which was often) then they'd ram the hell out of you.
Also the beginning of the age of edgy Jak. Pretty much my least favorite one, though 3 definitely improved on 2's flaws.

I seriously miss the original ;_;

 

[RealityPales]

I'm not even saying they should. I'm just saying that the game that would have resulted from that would have been a fucking landmark. And I think the platformer genre deserves a non Mario game like that, in this day and age.

Also it's Bruce Straley.

Haha! I know. But that's what I get for copying and pasting their names from a quick google search without looking at the result.

 

[Vasili2K38]

It is an incredibly linear narrative and setpiece focused 3rd person shooter. How do you need more than two sentences for that? Unless you're going to try and state that the presence of stealth elements suddenly makes it not a shooter then it's not really contestable that from a design standpoint, it shares very many elements with uncharted.

WHAT? Holy shit, the next thing I'll read in this thread is that TLoU is a Gears of War clone. Ok, I'll bite:

- "Incredibly linear": Ok, you could say that in the first third in the game, the game holds your hand and you almost have no tools to deal with the encounters. But then you reach Pittsburg, and the game OPENS A LOT, you have a lot of big levels with various options to engage or avoid the enemies. And a lot of big environments to explore and scavenge, obviously not open world but certainly not "incredibly linear" -_-.

- "Setpiece focused": What..the..fuck? Have you played the game? How many setpieces you have compared to any Uncharted? And if you say that every level is a setpiece, then every zone in a Metal Gear or in Dishonored is a setpiece .

- "3rd person shooter": I'm only able to consider TLoU as a shooter if you play in Easy, and you don't give a shit about exploring the levels and you blast your way shooting everything that moves.. because if you play in Normal or Hard and you try to play this game as a shooter you're screwed. Its more a survival game with the need to scavenge resources, the healing system, the item crafting..

It boggles my mind how after all the shitty-COD scripted cinematic-corridor shooters with shallow mechanics and poor gunplay we got this gen, then someone plays TLoU and think its the same shit. Incredible.

EDIT I'm beginning to think that some people have seen a few videos of TLoU and because of the similarities in the cinematic sequences and the engine they think TLoU is a glorified Uncharted clone with "zombies" and "a good story". My god -_- .

 

[Satchel]

At first I was like "motherFUCKER!"

But then I saw the art style :/