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[SlimySnake]

Just because a game is top down view, doesn't mean it stops rendering 3D stuff.
Both games are rendering 3D worlds. With the big diference that open areas in DG3 look good, while Starfield looks like crap, while running like crap.

Yes, Starfield indoors in pretty, but indoors is doesn't hammer the CPU.



No, the 5800X3D it is not power limited in games. It never is.
The limit it hits in games is the clock speed of 4.45 Ghz. Always.
Even in heavy plications it never is power limited. It sooner becomes temperature limited, than power limited.
I know that. I tested it extensively with y-cruncher and Prime95 small FFTs, and with undervolting.
Guess what. I can get higher performance in y-cruncher if I power limit the 5800X3D, tweaking EDC, PPT and TDC.

So why do you think the 5800x3d is being outperformed by the 7000 series CPUs like the 7600? Im not too familiar with those new CPUs. Did AMD up the clocks to finally hit 5.0 ghz? maybe this engine prefers higher clocks?

 

[winjer]

So why do you think the 5800x3d is being outperformed by the 7000 series CPUs like the 7600? Im not too familiar with those new CPUs. Did AMD up the clocks to finally hit 5.0 ghz? maybe this engine prefers higher clocks?

Could be sheer brute force of clock speed. Which is not normal for a modern game engine. Much less, on a well optimized game.

7000 series CPUs clock speeds range between 5 -5.7 Ghz. Depending on model, power and temperature limits.

The 5800X3D can also be overclocked. I have seen people pushing it above 4.7Ghz.
But that is a different matter.

 

[Gaiff]

So why do you think the 5800x3d is being outperformed by the 7000 series CPUs like the 7600? Im not too familiar with those new CPUs. Did AMD up the clocks to finally hit 5.0 ghz? maybe this engine prefers higher clocks?

Starfield loves cocks clocks. GN will do a piece of a 13900KS with LN2 and bench the game.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

Watch Fallout 4 then Starfield. Its a massive upgrade.

Bethesda engines have always been heavy on CPUs. This time around they upgraded their lighting model to be realtime GI so basically what RT and Lumen does but without using RT cores. But a clear step above last gen games. Not a single game i know of used realtime GI. I think some racing games like driveClub and GT7 but thats about it. UE4 had support for it but was pulled after launch.

they need to ditch that engine but there is stuff here that is way beyond what they did last gen and a clear upgrade over games this gen. it just doesnt show all the time because they downgraded the shit out of the open world. probably because they were worried about the backlash even higher performance requirements would cause.

Comparing their own individual advancement doesn't mean much when compared against everything else. Like I'm a pretty shitty cook, if I somehow manage to make a half decent meal I can't be like "holy shit I'm basically Gordon Ramsey!", cause compared to everything else it's probably still mediocre at best. But I do agree this is their best game in many ways when considering performance and graphics, it's a really good foundation for a sequel whenever that comes. It also in a roundabout way makes me more excited for the next Elder Scrolls cause I think whatever issues they have here they will try and take care of for that game. Hopefully they do as you said and ditch the current engine, it's really long in the tooth at this point, and if any game deserves a new engine it's the next Elder Scrolls.

 

[JimboJones]

You may need to upgrade to *insert AMD CPU/GPU*

 

[Tomeru]

They are not the most technically proficient developers around honestly. However, while it was expected, people should most def deserve a well optimised game.

 

[Dacvak]

"We optimized as far as this shitcan old engine allowed us to"

There, i fixed it.

I mean, yeah. I unironically think this is the real answer. Frankly, I’m surprised Starfield runs as well as it does on the Creation Engine. There’s got to be so much duct taped code in there, I bet it’s a huge mess.

But also I don’t know how we could expect anything better. I’m genuinely happy with the 60+ fps I get on PC, and the surprisingly steady 30 fps I get on console. It’s a dogshit engine.

 

[KXVXII9X]

Yes, Todd. Why doesn't the game run on an 960M !

You are being facetious. You don't even try to hide it.

 

[SlimySnake]

Could be sheer brute force of clock speed. Which is not normal for a modern game engine. Much less, on a well optimized game.

7000 series CPUs clock speeds range between 5 -5.7 Ghz. Depending on model, power and temperature limits.

The 5800X3D can also be overclocked. I have seen people pushing it above 4.7Ghz.
But that is a different matter.

Well there you go. Higher clocks it is. Blame amd for releasing so many 4 ghz cpus when Intel was hitting 5 ghz easily years ago. I was looking at 3600 benchmarks and it tops out at 4.1 ghz. Like come on, are we surprised by this? This isn’t the first game that prefers higher clocks. Matrix demo and most ue5 and ue4 games also perform better on higher clocks. The only difference between this and other games is that starfield is designed for next Gen cpus running at 3.6 ghz so it makes sense that in order to double the console framerate you would need way higher clocks than 4 to 4.5 ghz.

 

[DJ12]

You did? Could have fucking fooled me. What the hell is so next generation about the game?

It’s good, sure, but optimised it fucking isn’t.

He probably meant they optimised it when the engine was first used, nothing has changed since then right?

 

[yamaci17]

So why do you think the 5800x3d is being outperformed by the 7000 series CPUs like the 7600? Im not too familiar with those new CPUs. Did AMD up the clocks to finally hit 5.0 ghz? maybe this engine prefers higher clocks?

it could be l2 cache too

5800x 3d, even at its superior form, only has 4 mb of l2 cache
probably inferior infinity fabric

7600 and stuff has 6 mb l2 cache. and probably better infinity fabric

to be honest, all Zen CPUs tend to age horridly compared to Intel CPUs. it almost feels as if AMD specifically tunes their CPU so that it stays performant for the 2-3 year window , then falls off. zen + and zen 2 was of a similar story. I thought zen + and zen 2 aged horridly because of inter ccx latency. but somehow Zen 3 also started acting up. I seen some benchmarks in jedi survivor where 5600x was more stuttery compared to something like 10400f, a much slower CPU (at least generally).

seems like there's some gimmicky side to the overall "Zen" architecture that is a bit problematic in certain workloads.

Cyberpunk with ray tracing in jig jig for example pushes 5800x 3d below 45 FPS easily, whereas 12900k easily holds a near 60 FPS there. there's something amiss that most reviewers ignore due to them being denoted as "outliers." but sooner or later new games become CPU bound enough that those outliers become the rule rather than the exception. zen+ and zen 2 suffered the same. mostly they performed good compared to Intel CPUs, but there were outliers. but reviewers did thwarth them as "outliers". fast forward to 2022-2023, those outliers now become the norm for those architectures .

if same happens to zen 3 and zen 3 3D CPUs, I will try to persuade everyone from buying AMD CPUs. it is not really a good look in general

 

[Thirty7ven]

This guy is an hack, he should thank the universe for conjuring up the position he finds himself in because he’s full of shit.

 

[winjer]

Well there you go. Higher clocks it is. Blame amd for releasing so many 4 ghz cpus when Intel was hitting 5 ghz easily years ago. I was looking at 3600 benchmarks and it tops out at 4.1 ghz. Like come on, are we surprised by this? This isn’t the first game that prefers higher clocks. Matrix demo and most ue5 and ue4 games also perform better on higher clocks. The only difference between this and other games is that starfield is designed for next Gen cpus running at 3.6 ghz so it makes sense that in order to double the console framerate you would need way higher clocks than 4 to 4.5 ghz.

Most games scale better with cache, than with clock speed. Starfield is an abnormality.
Even 13th gen got a good boost in performance in games from doubling the L2 cache per core.
And Zen4 also doubled it's cache from Zen3.

Even UE games scale better with cache, than with clocks. For example.

 

[Bkdk]

Modders are already doing a better job further optimizing the game within a week of release. Bethesda needs to hire some of the modders and fire some of their inferior staff members.

 

[Mowcno]

No Todd it runs like ass. My 3060 basically gets Series S performance. I'm running on lowest settings at 720p resolution locked to 48fps just to try and get a consistent framerate. That's ignoring cities of course they're a lost cause.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Modders are already doing a better job further optimizing the game within a week of release. Bethesda needs to hire some of the modders and fire some of their inferior staff members.

I will never not understand why this isn't more of a thing.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

This guy is an hack, he should thank the universe for conjuring up the position he finds himself in because he’s full of shit.

Pat yourself on the back “hack” we’re all waiting on your game that your directing from the development studio that you’ve been running for the past 25 years.

Why would get so mad about what he said. Are you playing Starfield? Are you a fan of any Bethesda game. Why??
You sound so mentally unhealthy, remember it’s a video game. Entertainment purposes only.

 

[decisions]

7900XTX/7800X3D here. Essentially the ideal PC to play Starfield on right?

Game crashed for me 3 times in the first hour so I refunded it. I think it was because I have an ultrawide monitor based on some other discussions, but I really have no idea.

Playing Cyberpunk now on Ultra settings and now that this game is fixed it makes Starfield look 10 years behind!

 

[dorkimoe]

Better work on 60fps Xbox patch cuz this is kinda dumb

 

[Madflavor]

Pat yourself on the back “hack” we’re all waiting on your game that your directing from the development studio that you’ve been running for the past 25 years.

Why would get so mad about what he said. Are you playing Starfield? Are you a fan of any Bethesda game. Why??
You sound so mentally unhealthy, remember it’s a video game. Entertainment purposes only.

Great logic. You're not allowed to critique the food unless you go to culinary school for 4 years, take out a loan, open your own restaurant, hire staff, cook a meal on the menu, and serve it to the same person you critiqued. Then you can say "I don't like the taste of this chicken."

 

[Bruno_Arrais85]

Todd and Tom Warren. Name a better duo.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

This game should be able to run 1440p at 60 fps on a 3060. Maybe not with every single detail, but at least medium settings.

if it did that, then I'd agree that that it was well optimized.

but right now, it barely hits 4K/60 at max settings on a 4090/7800X3D.

Optimized my ass.

 

[SlimySnake]

Starfield loves cocks clocks. GN will do a piece of a 13900KS with LN2 and bench the game.

I’m too lazy to pull up old posts of mine from 2020 where i brought up concerns about how pc cpus will have issues doubling the framerate of these next gen games designed around 3.5 ghz 8 core 16 thread CPUs.

Easy for PC gamers to find GPUs with double the tflops but now they have to find a proper CPU upgrade too.

Thankfully the game is well optimized on 7000 series CPUs and GPUs. The nwe $500 7800xt should offer 6800xt levels of performance which is outperforming a freaking 3090 Ti in this game. Not as good as a $1,200 4080 but very close. With a $500 GPU upgrade and a $300 CPU upgrade, people should be able to easily get 2-3x more performnace than the xsx version.

Most games scale better with cache, than with clock speed. Starfield is an abnormality.
Even 13th gen got a good boost in performance in games from doubling the L2 cache per core.
And Zen4 also doubled it's cache from Zen3.

Even UE games scale better with cache, than with clocks. For example.

Last gen games dude. Starfield vs hogwarts and borderlands 3 is like asking why tlou part 1 runs at 60 fps no PS5 and starfield doesnt.

 

[winjer]

Last gen games dude. Starfield vs hogwarts and borderlands 3 is like asking why tlou part 1 runs at 60 fps no PS5 and starfield doesnt.

UE4 is still being used by several games, most of which look way better than Starfield.
And Fortnite is UE5 and it still scales better with cache, than with clocks.

But you are free to post some benchmarks.

 

[Sleepwalker]

You know Todd, maybe you should invest in your NPCs not looking like garbage from 2013 before telling people to upgrade their pcs.

OR at least don't zoom into their faces everytime they address you, this game is not LA noire, it doesnt need that.

 

[SlimySnake]

This guy is an hack, he should thank the universe for conjuring up the position he finds himself in because he’s full of shit.

So if Neil Druckman or Cory comes out and says that their next game is next gen game only and tells PS4 owners to upgrade, would you say they are hacks?

This is a next gen game. Designed around the xsx 12 tflops specs.

This game should be able to run 1440p at 60 fps on a 3060. Maybe not with every single detail, but at least medium settings.

lmao. why?

a 3060 is the same as a 2070. The XSX which runs this game at 1440p 30 fps is equivalent to a 2080. Why in the work would a 360 double the framerate despite being 20% less powerful. What logic is this?

And you CAN run this at 60 fps using a 2080. My friend is doing that right now. You just need a powerful CPU like the 7800x3d. I think hes using medium settings at 1080p which makes perfect sense since xsx is running it at almost double the resolution at 30 fps.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Todd's right in the sense that Starfield performs comparably to the console version on a PC with comparable specs. It isn't badly ported or optimized to the platform, it's just targeting a current-gen console spec or better, and many PC gamers aren't there. Also most PC gamers don't want to play at 30fps and 1080p like console gamers and have a higher expectation.

For as much as people talk about PC gamers as elitists who are always upgrading to the latest and greatest to play at high refresh rates on UItra, the reality reflected in the Steam hardware survey is that most of them are on 5+ year old hardware; 4-6 core CPUs, budget tier graphics cards... As we push out of the cross-gen period, a lot of those people are getting left behind, and it isn't just Starfield.

 

[Knightime_X]

I bet someone out there who barely gets 30fps in half-life 2 expects Starfield to be playable on their PC.
And its not optimized if they can't play it well or at all.

 

[SF Kosmo]

This game should be able to run 1440p at 60 fps on a 3060. Maybe not with every single detail, but at least medium settings.

The comparable hardware in the XSX runs it at 1080 upscaled and 30fps. How would a 3060 run it that much better?

You could argue that this game isn't well optimized broadly, but it's harder to argue that the PC version is struggling compared to the console.

 

[Lokaum D+]

You know Todd, maybe you should invest in your NPCs not looking like garbage from 2013 before telling people to upgrade their pcs.

OR at least don't zoom into their faces everytime they address you, this game is not LA noire, it doesnt need that.

and yet you must upgrade you GPU to run this crap ass engine running this crap ass animations, look at this shit and compare with the other two









Anime dating sim has been doing this static NPC interaction since the 90', time to upgrade that shit Todd.

 

[MikeM]

Is it just my system or is AMD overlay not showing FPS in Starfield?

 

[Sorcerer]

edit

 

[SlimySnake]

Todd's right in the sense that Starfield performs comparably to the console version on a PC with comparable specs. It isn't badly ported or optimized to the platform, it's just targeting a current-gen console spec or better, and many PC gamers aren't there. Also most PC gamers don't want to play at 30fps and 1080p like console gamers and have a higher expectation.

For as much as people talk about PC gamers as elitists who are always upgrading to the latest and greatest to play at high refresh rates on UItra, the reality reflected in the Steam hardware survey is that most of them are on 5+ year old hardware; 4-6 core CPUs, budget tier graphics cards... As we push out of the cross-gen period, a lot of those people are getting left behind, and it isn't just Starfield.

Thats true, but look at the steam reviews. mostly positive reviews. PC gamers arent stupid. they know what their cards can or cannot do. I remember buying a 2080 in 2019 to run all PS4 games at native 4k 60 fps and i did until i ran into ray tracing games like control which i had to run at 960p internally to get a locked 60 fps. did i bitch and moan? I dont know maybe i did. But its the price i was willing to pay for ray traced debris at 60 fps. Every pc gamer who has tried to run ray traced games since 2018 knows what their PCs can and cannot do.

We have seen games like TLOU and Star Wars debut on steam with awful reviews. This is not the case here so my guess is that most people are either ok with the performance or understand the high requirements.

 

[DryvBy]

Get a better engine, Todd. This game isn't a visual masterpiece.

 

[BossLackey]

3080ti and i7-11700k

Almost zero difference between medium and ultra settings for me. I'm getting 40-50 fps in New Atlantis and it looks like absolute dog shit. Game can look fucking amazing, but New Atlantis is an area from a 360 game.

 

[dreamstation]

You might need to upgrade your engine.

 

[Destruction-1002]

and yet you must upgrade you GPU to run this crap ass engine running this crap ass animations, look at this shit and compare with the other two









Anime dating sim has been doing this static NPC interaction since the 90', time to upgrade that shit Todd.

Bethesda release the first TES in 1994, in 1996 they released TES 2: Daggerfall

The combat of Elder Scrolls hasn't changed since then

 

[Solidus_T]

Hopefully they do as you said and ditch the current engine, it's really long in the tooth at this point, and if any game deserves a new engine it's the next Elder Scrolls.

Elder Scrolls VI is using the same engine as Starfield IIRC. It's got some improvements according to BGS, but it's the same at its core.

 

[Putonahappyface]

This fucking guy seriously. I bet he smells his own farts.

 

[XesqueVara]

Most games scale better with cache, than with clock speed. Starfield is an abnormality.
Even 13th gen got a good boost in performance in games from doubling the L2 cache per core.
And Zen4 also doubled it's cache from Zen3.

Even UE games scale better with cache, than with clocks. For example.

It´s Not Clocks actually, it´s Bandwith, Starfield Scales Very well with Ram Speed.
That's why Raptor-Lake fly on that Game, a 6-wide core with high Ram speed Capabilities.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Us console peasants lurking in the thread watching PCMR go mad:

 

[Putonahappyface]

Us console peasants lurking in the thread watching PCMR go mad:

 

[Sleepwalker]

Us console peasants lurking in the thread watching PCMR go mad:

Your neogaf gold refreshes the thread at 30fps

 

[winjer]

It´s Not Clocks actually, it´s Bandwith, Starfield Scales Very well with Ram Speed.
That's why Raptor-Lake fly on that Game, a 6-wide core with high Ram speed Capabilities.

Not really.
Both Zen4 and 13Th gen only gain 10% from memory bandwidth.

 

[Deerock71]

He learned from the best

Yeah. Just get a 360, bitches!

 

[Badlucktroll]

It looks a tid washed out on my oled. Fix coming?

 

[Icymanipulator]

The character models look horrendous.
I don’t think an upgrade to a PC is gonna help that much. I suppose it would run more smoothly though. But that dead eye stare is hard to not notice. I guess people will just have to wait for the modding community to fix things. As usual for their games.

 

[Boss Mog]

Is that his normal voice? He sounds like he just sucked on a helium balloon.

 

[SlimySnake]

3080ti and i7-11700k

Almost zero difference between medium and ultra settings for me. I'm getting 40-50 fps in New Atlantis and it looks like absolute dog shit. Game can look fucking amazing, but New Atlantis is an area from a 360 game.

Neon City and Akila City look way better.

ignore the dumb tumbler filters, i couldnt find any other gifs of those two cities.

Dont worry too much about performance in new atlantis or any of these hub worlds. there is no combat here. its not indicative of anything other than your CPU. trust me it could be worse. i have the same CPU and its destroying some zen 2 and zen 3 cpus in new atlantis.

p.s there is definitely a difference between medium and ultra settings. change to high from ultra and you should see a difference in atlantis. im getting 45-55 fps on a 3080 there using fsr quality. this video is back when i had it at 62% so a little bit below fsr quality, but im definitely in the same ballpark as you and you should be getting at least 15% better performance.



Enable resizeable bar as well in nvidia profile inspector. not a big upgrade but you should get 3-4 fps.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is that his normal voice? He sounds like he just sucked on a helium balloon.

Yes. He's a lil guy.