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Tom Warren to the anti Lockhart

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Kumomeme

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Isn't AC unity cpu bound rather than gpu? That's why it runs better on the xbox one than the ps4.
the game overall has terrible optimization..there tons of 100% high cpu usage complaint from users despite some of them even overclock their cpu....

later ubisoft itself confirmed that stuff like high npc count is not main causes of fps issue but it due to instruction progress

“We can tell you that we have detected a distinct discrepancy between what we observed in the pre-launch versus post-launch environment. In spite of our testing, it looks like the instruction queue is becoming overloaded and impacting performance.”
”We have just finished a new round of tests on crowd size but have found it is not linked to this problem and does not improve frame rate, so we will be leaving crowds as they are.”
before they even try to blame AMD for it

"We are aware that the graphics performance of Assassin's Creed Unity on PC may be adversely affected by certain AMD CPU and GPU configurations. This should not affect the vast majority of PC players, but rest assured that AMD and Ubisoft are continuing to work together closely to resolve the issue, and will provide more information as soon as it is available"
but later Amd fired back and turn out what they said is true, which is ubisoft acknowledges later

"The game (in its current state) is issuing approximately 50,000 draw calls on the DirectX 11 API. Problem is, DX11 is only equipped to handle ~10,000 peak draw calls. What happens after that is a severe bottleneck with most draw calls culled or incorrectly rendered, resulting in texture/NPCs popping all over the place. On the other hand, consoles have to-the-metal access and almost non-existent API Overhead but significantly underpowered hardware which is not able to cope with the stress of the multitude of polygons. Simply put, its a very very bad port for the PC Platform and an unoptimized (some would even go as far as saying, unfinished) title on the consoles".
and to think all this could happened to big studio with hundreds of manpower resources around the globe
 
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jakinov

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4tf Navi is still not enough to handle RTX. I dont even think PS5s 10Tfs can give us full RTX effects without making the game a slideshow. Its PR speak
Both consoles are supposed to have dedicated hardware to help with the ray tracing how effective they are in practice has yet to be seen. Microsoft purports that without the dedicated hardware they would need over 13TF to do ray-tracing but with it they dont and can offload a lot of the work to the new hardware instead of the GPU shaders. Even if the results do end up sucking, it's probably not as simple as you need X teraflops to do ray-tracing.
 
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DavidGzz

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The funny thing is that the Series S will be more capable than 90% of gaming rigs if you go by Steam statistics it may be even higher. I guess since Xbox games will be playable on PC, the PC is actually the main thing holding back next gen games. Herpaderp
 

turtlepowa

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I've seen Xbox's on sale for under 200 euro here in Ireland... which is insane in what they call 'the rip-off republic'.
Releasing a cheaper Xbox will not move the needle
It will, because it's all about the release price. Later price drops < what my friends already have
 

Bogey

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Game developers have been building PC titles for multiple GPUs for... decades
Yea, but not for their exclusive titles, which are usually the best among all console games visually. for a reason. (think pretty much any Naughty Dog game)
 
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JimiNutz

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Lockheart sounds pretty powerful and I don't think supporting it for the generation will be a problem if it's able to play the same games just at 1080p rather than 4K

The bigger problem is the original Xbox One and One X hardware. Hopefully they only support that old stuff for a year or so at most.

If Lockheart is a decent price, and I really like the XSX, then I can easily see myself buying one as a secondary Xbox for my gf.
 

massivekettle

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Dec 13, 2019
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This is stupid. If it does all of that, then why Lockhart?
Well... enlarge your potential consumer base with a more accessible price point?

There will definitely be shortcomings to the Lockhart (less RAM, weaker GPU, diskless, etc.), otherwise it wouldn't be cheaper than the XSX.
 
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Night.Ninja

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These thread just show how stupid some people are. People keep letting their warrior tendencies blind them.
 
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GiJoint

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A reason for ps4 mind share is because all mainstream media voted for it against one.
Going into next gen, Series X will play multi platform games best. Series S will play multi platform games cheapest. Imo the media will be much more favourable to MS.
It will come down to how they treat the worldwide audience not just focus on “tier” regions like the start of Xbone. Sony have solid footing with worldwide sales so Microsoft can have all the bells and whistles they want, but they are playing catch-up.
 
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DavidGzz

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referring to many of my previous posts. Microsoft is simply playing that card of "always being one step ahead" and I am starting to be a little bit fed up with their communication style.
Ok, yeah, you are the smartest on planet earth and will out-do everyone....

Just.Show.Us.Your.Damn.Show.Already.
Last I looked it's still June. This wasn't a MS tweet. Still got like 3 weeks to go, lol
 
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Tulipanzo

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Just FYI, Tom doesn't actually know the CPU speed, and wrote as much in his article.
"Some documentation" might suggest there is no down-clock, even though Verge's previous reports conflict with this.

Tom Warren is a known fanboy on both Twitter and Era, and is directly linking doubts that 1/3 GPU power and 1/2 RAM might not be good enough for a whole gen to liking PlayStation for some reason.
He should frankly stick to reporting and avoid frivolous bullshit.

EDIT: He also swears the Lockhart has an SSD, despite never mentioning it in his articles. Still, good enough to argue with people confused by lack of info
 
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Jon Neu

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Jan 21, 2018
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As we enter a world where 4K is a luxury resolution
Dunno, 4K tv’s are dirty cheap right now. You can find them in the 200/400 range easily. And in 5 months they are going to be even cheaper, when 8K tv’s start to gain attention.

If the point is making a console for the people who doesn’t have a 4K tv and that can’t afford a more expensive console in the economic crisis we will face, then target 720p instead of 1080 and do the console even cheaper, because the rumored 199€ will still be a lot of money in that scenario.
 
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Sony

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What kind of Twilight zone are we in to call the Verge a Micorosft PR extention? Did the Verge change leadership? I remember back in the Topolsky days that the Verge hated everything Microsoft did and rode that Apple wiener hard.

By the way, Lockhart isn't announced yet/ formally doesn't exist. How do you expect MS to do PR for it..?
 

eastwood333

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This guy doesn't even work for MS shockingly yet even he's getting defensive and insecure about this console.

If they just revealed it people could properly judge. On the face of it though, it seems a stupid idea.

Someone pointing out common sense now = "insecure"?

I'll challenge you on the "stupid idea"

If the XSX/PS5 are 499-550 in this economic climate with a global pandemic, massive economic downturn, etc... then it makes PERFECT SENSE to release a cheaper alternative that if priced right (299) can play next gen games, just at lower specs, will more than likely be a huge win for MS gaining more marketshare. If MS's goal is to add as many people to there ecosystem, then it's a very smart move. Pricing is the # 1 determination in how successful a platform will be.

If you think Lockhart will hold next gen back, let me give some examples. I saw the new Ratchet and Clank and Gran Turismo at the sony show. Both looked solid, but nothing to wow anybody with. I have no doubt those two games could run on PS4 and still look good. Take away the 1 second loading/warping segments in the Ratcher game, decrease other assets like ray tracing, particle affects, draw distances, resolution etc... and you could have that game running on a PS4. Same with Gran Turismo.

Lockhart will have a Zen 2 Cpu, RDNA 2, SSD, weaker Gpu. Having a 299 next gen box that can play all the next gen games and is 200 bucks cheaper will be big for MS and gaining marketshare. They will have the most powerful high end console and the low end version. It's a good mix. Having the cheapest next gen console paired with gamepass and you've got a very attractive/affordable platform that can not be denied. It's also attractive to those who'd would like to have an Xbox as a secondary/3rd console to play Xbox exclusives, who'd never consider Xbox otherwise without the cheaper price and value of gamepass.

Some fans of a particular platform knows how important priceing is and know this could be very successful for Xbox. Thats why they're scared and are putting so much effort into concern trolling.
 
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yurqqa

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That tweet looks very unprofessional to me. Just read the replies lol, a lot of angry people in there.
False conclusion - the tweet is unprofessional.

Real conclusion - there are a lot of angry people.

I think the tweet is quite clear and Lockart have a chance to sell a lot (especially with Gamepass) to more casual players.
 
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Tulipanzo

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False conclusion - the tweet is unprofessional.

Real conclusion - there are a lot of angry people.

I think the tweet is quite clear and Lockart have a chance to sell a lot (especially with Gamepass) to more casual players.
The tweet contains information Tom Warren couldn't vouch for in his own article. It is very unprofessional, and far from the first time he does this.
 

massivekettle

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Dec 13, 2019
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What kind of Twilight zone are we in to call the Verge a Micorosft PR extention? Did the Verge change leadership? I remember back in the Topolsky days that the Verge hated everything Microsoft did and rode that Apple wiener hard.

By the way, Lockhart isn't announced yet/ formally doesn't exist. How do you expect MS to do PR for it..?
And they still do on both counts... Tom Warren is just the Microsoft coverage guy within Verge.

I would argue he's probably more balanced overall than Jason Schreier is (with Sony).
 

eastwood333

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The tweet contains information Tom Warren couldn't vouch for in his own article. It is very unprofessional, and far from the first time he does this.
How do you know? He has access we do not and is clearly in the know about a lot of things.
 

Jakub1904

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Jan 6, 2020
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The PC analogy doesn't really make sense to me. If a studio decides to develop a PC exclusive game, they are going to target some HW specifications and if your PC doesn't meet them, it will run badly or it won't run at all. When talking about consoles, they simply have to support the weakest console they want to launch on. Also, multiplatform games are almost always made for consoles and then ported to PC with some graphical improvements.

And to be clear, I understand why they want to release Lockhart. From the business point of view, it makes a lot of sense. I just find it weird that some people are oblivious to the possible impacts it could have on game development.
 

Tulipanzo

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How do you know? He has access we do not and is clearly in the know about a lot of things.
I read his article(s), that's how I know. If he's convinced the CPU is not down-clocked, then he should have written as much before jumping to be a warrior on Twitter.
Similarly to how he doesn't report on an SSD in Lockhart, but will say you're spreading misinformation if you say it's unclear.
 
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Tulipanzo

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The PC analogy doesn't really make sense to me. If a studio decides to develop a PC exclusive game, they are going to target some HW specifications and if your PC doesn't meet them, it will run badly or it won't run at all. When talking about consoles, they simply have to support the weakest console they want to launch on. Also, multiplatform games are almost always made for consoles and then ported to PC with some graphical improvements.

And to be clear, I understand why they want to release Lockhart. From the business point of view, it makes a lot of sense. I just find it weird that some people are oblivious to the possible impacts it could have on game development.
Yeah, the PC analogy is especially weak on a lot of aspects, as you've pointed out.

1) PCs still require optimization so ports don't run terribly, even on more powerful hardware
2) Consoles not needing as much because they're closed boxes is one of their major advantages over PCs
3) You can alter PC req. specs over a gen, and push graphics very low knowing it'll be fine for some people (eg those running games at 720p but 60fps)
4) The Lockhart will have to play games at 1080p no matter what, and MS is reportedly pushing it as a 1440p box, which it isn't powerful enough to do if PS5/XSX are at 4K

Warren here is openly dismissive of potential problems, and in fact mocking those who don't understand Lockhart as PS fanboys. He's being very childish for somebody who works for a (supposed) tech magazine.
 
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Tulipanzo

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If the games look like they do on the Series X but just with 1080p on the S, this will sell like hotcakes..
The major concern is they most definitely will not. Lockhart is already underpowered given MS's reported target to developers.

You can't just press a "port to Lockhart" button.
 
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Stiflers Mom

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The major concern is they most definitely will not. Lockhart is already underpowered given MS's reported target to developers.

You can't just press a "port to Lockhart" button.
It's all just rumors. Nobody knows anything.

We will see...
 
Mar 6, 2016
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I've seen Xbox's on sale for under 200 euro here in Ireland... which is insane in what they call 'the rip-off republic'.
Releasing a cheaper Xbox will not move the needle, it results on more dev time being put into a platform that sells the least software and has a subscription service that undermines new releases......

It all comes together to make it the most developer unfriendly platform and I believe developers already are voicing their annoyance.
Good point. Xbox one already has 3 skus along with MS wanting to supporting the old platform abit linger and the releasing two more skus sounds like more of a nightmare for develops having to waste all this time with a many skus.
 

Tulipanzo

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It's all just rumors. Nobody knows anything.

We will see...
Well, you can just try math and see it doesn't work. This is also discounting tech that will push PS5/XSX to below 4K.

While we do indeed not know (in large part because MS refuses to talk about Lockhart), development will not be as easy as "just lower the res to 1080p". Making a game is a tad more complex than clicking the resolution option on Youtube.
 
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If the games look like they do on the Series X but just with 1080p on the S, this will sell like hotcakes..
Depends on the price. It's a 1/3rd of the Series X in tflops, which is MS numbers game, but it obviously won't cost a 1/3rd (the CPU and memory are closer).

So $200 it will sell great. $300 it'll be too expensive for a 4tflop machine imo, especially if PS5 digital is only $100 more.
 
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Sethbacca

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Soooooo.... He's telling us that games couldn't be better if devs were allowed to disregard old underpowered shit and just focus on developing for new hardware?

I call bullshit....
 

Tulipanzo

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Good point. Xbox one already has 3 skus along with MS wanting to supporting the old platform abit linger and the releasing two more skus sounds like more of a nightmare for develops having to waste all this time with a many skus.
I'd add there's going to be a lot of confusion, since they've been marketing the Series X since E3 2018 (as Scarlett) and will have shown the MAIN box for 9 months come August.
The Lockhart will be lucky to get 3 months before it hits shelves and I can't imagine that'll play great.
 
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ZywyPL

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Developers have been scaling up and down the games/engines since forever on PCs, and now consoles are based on the same X86 architecture, build on the same AMD parts, so whether someone likes it or not, consoles are PCs now. Even during recent UE5 presentation Epic said it's scalable and will run across all sorts of PCs and both current and upcoming consoles. If the engine developer's word is not enough to convince someone then I guess nothing will.



Then why have the XSX at all? Why not release Lockhart as the main console and then release XSX next year with even BETTER specs (ie 14 TFs with more RAM Bandwidth) for full 4K gaming?
So the games will be made with both systems in mind from the get-go. What you suggest is exactly what happened with Pro/1X, where many many games were left behind and never received appropriate patch. Not to mention why would MS need to wait when they already have a console that's up to the task for "full 4K gaming"?
 

Stiflers Mom

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Well, you can just try math and see it doesn't work.
Okay, show me your math.

It's not like I am 100% convinced that Lockhart will be 1080p and being able to show XSEX like graphics, but I would not rule it out at the moment.

Maybe you can enlighten us with your superior knowledge.

While we do indeed not know (in large part because MS refuses to talk about Lockhart), development will not be as easy as "just lower the res to 1080p".
Actually, yes, that's the easiest way to lower the grunt the CPU and GPU have to deal with.

Making a game is a tad more complex than clicking the resolution option on Youtube.
Choosing a resolution is like not even really part of "game dev".

Your statement is not making any sense.
 
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