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[RibbedHero]

Found it. I don't think it's really all that bad, but it made a huge fuss at the time.

He's A bit of an asshole about it but he certainly has a point. I like having people like him fighting for PC customisation/options so that I don't have to.

It's like having a hardass MP or union leader; someone's got to do the dirty work and the asshole approach sometimes works.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

No. No it is not powerful and humbling. It's a fucking hashtag. I mean, I have no problem with hashtags, but even I can admit that it's just a fucking hashtag.

Twitter campaigns accomplish very little, in the end. It's fine if you want to do them, but you shouldn't be surprised or take it super personally when someone has the opinion that nothing you're doing is making all that much of a difference, because... it isn't.

They already knew there was lots of opposition to this, they already had been tweeted at a million times about it. Only thing deciding what they do next is their own decisions based on what they want and what they think most of us will put up with.

I think what TB is saying is that at this point, what is appreciated and needed is long posts explaining your thoughts and arguments against or for this issue. Not hashtags that simply confirm to these companies what they've already known.

Food for thought: Adam Boyes is a Sony employee. He seems to think the Twitter campaign is more effective than a few form letters. Obviously the twitter campaign won't change things on its own, but an astronomically high volume of complaints may have some effect. Probably a lot more of an effect than a few people writing essays to point out things they've probably already considered.

 

[DarkFlow]

This dude is a total fucking tool. Why do people like him?

 

[RPGCrazied]

This dude is a total fucking tool. Why do people like him?

I don't know why people humor him. I think its just feeding his ego though, he should just be ignored.

I know I did when he basically said buyers of used games is ripping off the developers.

 

[BlastProcessing]

No. No it is not powerful and humbling. It's a fucking hashtag. I mean, I have no problem with hashtags, but even I can admit that it's just a fucking hashtag.

Twitter campaigns accomplish very little, in the end. It's fine if you want to do them, but you shouldn't be surprised or take it super personally when someone has the opinion that nothing you're doing is making all that much of a difference, because... it isn't.

They already knew there was lots of opposition to this, they already had been tweeted at a million times about it. Only thing deciding what they do next is their own decisions based on what they want and what they think most of us will put up with.

I think what TB is saying is that at this point, what is appreciated and needed is long posts explaining your thoughts and arguments against or for this issue. Not hashtags that simply confirm to these companies what they've already known.

FYI Adam Boyes is the Head of Publisher Relations at SCEA. As in, the guy who interfaces between Sony and the publishers that are pushing for DRM. As in, this fucking hashtag got the attention of the exact people that were its intended target. Also many of these fucking hashtags have been placed conveniently near links to the long posts and arguments that you seem unable to find.

It is beyond infuriating to me to see someone argue that somehow small things don't matter. That small things are insignificant. It feels like it always comes from people who are trying to justify the fact that they never get off their own asses, so therefore getting off your ass has no value.

 

[blame space]

who is "totalbiscuit"

 

[H2Yo]

How long before Total Biscuit is an employee of Polygon? Hahaha...

 

[antitrop]

I know I did when he basically said buyers of used games is ripping off the developers.

He didn't basically say it, he said it.

 

[BlastProcessing]

who is "totalbiscuit"

Someone who is not as cool as you are.

 

[shinra-bansho]

No. No it is not powerful and humbling. It's a fucking hashtag. I mean, I have no problem with hashtags, but even I can admit that it's just a fucking hashtag.

Twitter campaigns accomplish very little, in the end. It's fine if you want to do them, but you shouldn't be surprised or take it super personally when someone has the opinion that nothing you're doing is making all that much of a difference, because... it isn't.

They already knew there was lots of opposition to this, they already had been tweeted at a million times about it. Only thing deciding what they do next is their own decisions based on what they want and what they think most of us will put up with.

I think what TB is saying is that at this point, what is appreciated and needed is long posts explaining your thoughts and arguments against or for this issue. Not hashtags that simply confirm to these companies what they've already known.

The other person in that twitter feed is the VP Publisher and Developer Relations at SCEA.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

I think the point you're missing is that we don't trust Sony or Microsoft to do it correctly.


Look at Steam. Now look at XBLA/XBLGoD, Windows 8 store, and Games for Windows Live Marketplace.


Now you're telling me that you think Microsoft will somehow make some sort of Steam-like utopia on their console? What in their history gives you even 1 reason to think that's true....?

I think my second point goes to your issue. We don't even have to rely on Microsoft or Sony to keep prices down, because competition among publishers and developers still exists within the closed XBL and PSN systems. Publishers know from their experience on Steam that deep discounts and long tail sales can increase their bottom line, so it seems like they should be willing to do that on their own on XBL or PSN.

Of course, publishers can already do that on the PS3 and 360 storefronts, so why don't they already? Well first, they already do, just not yet to the same extent. But there's already lots of experimenting with pricing models, even giving away games for free with PS+. As for why there is still a discrepancy between the current state of PSN/XBL and Steam, I think a lot of this depends on how much influence Gamestop and other retailers exert on prices. But we all know that physical retailers are on the way out, and they would have been a lot sooner if this no used game switchover had happened earlier. But still, as long as physical retailers exert influence it will be hard for publishers and devs to exercise the same kind of influence on their PSN and XBL pricing as they do on Steam. Luckily, digital sales gain legitimacy and popularity with every generation.

 

[Ouren]

It's like he's just an internet commentator or something!

 

[Jake Tower]

He didn't basically say it, he said it.

As I stated earlier, TB has convinced me, no one but the pub/dev should make money off the creative work. Therefore, I hope youtube removes all monetization from his game videos. He has no right to profit from them.

 

[MogCakes]

.

You did see that Adam Boyes is in fact the head of Publisher Relations as was stated twice, right? Just checking.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

As I stated earlier, TB has convinced me, no one but the pub/dev should make money off the creative work. Therefore, I hope youtube removes all monetization from his game videos. He has no right to profit from them.

Pretty much.

It's crazy for him to rail against used-games on the basis of it depriving the developer of some moneys (which studies actually show is not the case) or their right (which is just arbitrary bullshit). The former is just not true, and the latter is exactly what he and everyone else on youtube does through Let's Plays.

 

[famousmortimer]

No. No it is not powerful and humbling. It's a fucking hashtag. I mean, I have no problem with hashtags, but even I can admit that it's just a fucking hashtag.

Twitter campaigns accomplish very little, in the end. It's fine if you want to do them, but you shouldn't be surprised or take it super personally when someone has the opinion that nothing you're doing is making all that much of a difference, because... it isn't.

They already knew there was lots of opposition to this, they already had been tweeted at a million times about it. Only thing deciding what they do next is their own decisions based on what they want and what they think most of us will put up with.

I think what TB is saying is that at this point, what is appreciated and needed is long posts explaining your thoughts and arguments against or for this issue. Not hashtags that simply confirm to these companies what they've already known.

Could you please point out for me where I took it even remotely personally?

 

[rohlfinator]

I could have sworn there was some issue in the past TB was a right about, and a superb advocate for.

He's been pretty outspoken about things like always-on DRM, Mass Effect 3 DLC shenanigans, etc. Usually he tends to fall on the consumer advocacy side of things, if anything.

My take is that he's landing on this side of the used games issue because it doesn't affect him (since he primarily games on PC and gets free review copies). He'd be arguing just as vociferously in the other direction if he still had a need for used games.

 

[FStop7]

155 IQ and he can't spell "clamoring" right.

 

[Jake Tower]

He's been pretty outspoken about things like always-on DRM, Mass Effect 3 DLC shenanigans, etc. Usually he tends to fall on the consumer advocacy side of things, if anything.

ME3 sounds familiar, it might have been that.

My take is that he's landing on this side of the used games issue because it doesn't affect him (since he primarily games on PC and gets free review copies). He'd be arguing just as vociferously in the other direction if he still had a need for used games.

I can still see the justice in an issue that I don't think affects me directly. Perhaps he really is a narcissist.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

You did see that Adam Boyes is in fact the head of Publisher Relations as was stated twice, right? Just checking.

Did you respond to the right person?

 

[rohlfinator]

155 IQ and he can't spell "clamoring" right.

He even could have gotten away with "clamouring"!

I can still see the justice in an issue that I don't think affects me directly. Perhaps he really is a narcissist.

Yeah, he just seems out of touch on this issue. I mean he starts the video saying "it's strange that PC gamers would care about this since it can't benefit them in any way."

 

[antitrop]

Yeah, he just seems out of touch on this issue. I mean he starts the video saying "it's strange that PC gamers would care about this since it can't benefit them in any way."

I'll take empathy for 400, Alex.

 

[Jake Tower]

Yeah, he just seems out of touch on this issue. I mean he starts the video saying "it's strange that PC gamers would care about this since it can't benefit them in any way."

Which is false, since GameStop sells Steam cards, so used console games can be traded in for Steam monies.

 

[antitrop]

Which is false, since GameStop sells Steam cards, so used console games can be traded in for Steam monies.

Mind fucking blown.

 

[unbias]

Mind fucking blown.

Ya, I did not know this. I have not been in a gamestop for a long time.

 

[Gold_Loot]

Fuck, I used to like this guy's videos but after reading all this I might have to do a personal ban on him.

There's nothing wrong with having your own opinion on the matter but if you're going to act like the worlds biggest internet douche, well...

Maybe he can do a "WTF is personality" video.

 

[AppleMIX]

All these twitter posts make me realize how little a fuck I give about what someone says on twitter.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

I don't know who this guy is, but he sure does act self important. Internet celebs, pathetic.

 

[NZNova]

Fuck, I used to like this guy's videos but after reading all this I might have to do a personal ban on him.

There's nothing wrong with having your own opinion on the matter but if you're going to act like the worlds biggest internet douche, well...

Maybe he can do a "WTF is personality" video.

And of course any attempt to point this out will be met with a block or a ban, as the "I can't hear you over the sound of how many subscribers I have" train thunders on by.

 

[AppleMIX]

And of course any attempt to point this out will be met with a block or a ban, as the "I can't hear you over the sound of how many subscribers I have" train thunders on by.

Sure but in the end that doesn't really matter. What matters is the argument he presents.

 

[NZNova]

Sure but in the end that doesn't really matter. What matters is the argument he presents.

That's true, and usually he makes a pretty good case. However, it seems it's very hard to disagree with the guy without him whipping out the "haters gonna hate" card and shutting the discussion down.

 

[EatinOlives]

It's bizarre he's taking such a strong and petulant stance on this. Or maybe he's always been petulant, it's only now that he's every said something I'm entirely disagreeing with.

He's pretty much a Youtube commentator, who makes money off the industry by critiquing games or industry trends. In short, he doesn't produce anything, yet still profits off it. So why exactly is he presenting his opinion as gospel when he really doesn't actually contribute to the industry in any real way? It's entertaining to listen for the everyday consumer, but he's getting really far up his own ass on rants like these.

 

[May16]

Lul, Game Revolution is a little more bombastic, but okay.
http://www.gamerevolution.com/featu...you-also-lets-discuss-used-games-ps4-xbox-one

Normally, I'm the kind of guy who, if taken hostage with a group, would volunteer his own life to protect others. If the terrorists said "Okay, they haven't met our demands! Time to execute the first hostage!" I would be like "Me first, yo," to protect other innocent people. An exception to this, however, is if I find out that you think used software sales harm the game industry. In that case, if you're there with me, and the terrorists ask for their first victim, I'd point to you and say, "Hey! Pick this guy! He think used game sales hurt the industry!"

Personal examples blah blah

Borrowing Breath of Fire III from my neighbor turned into my own new purchase of the game, and then buying it again, new, as a PSP Import from Europe. It also led to me, my brother, my then-girlfriend, and my other brother (living out of state) buying Breath of Fire IV and later Dragon Quarter. I even bought a new copy each of Breath of Fire and BoF II when the GBA ports were released. Capcom sold 12 games because I was able to borrow one.

...

I was the third owner of my copy of Final Fantasy Tactics, and I bought a used copy of FF7 from my friend at high school. This turned into untold amounts of new Final Fantasy purchases (including more than 2 years of being an FFXI subscriber).

I understand that today I could possibly download Disgaea instead of being all but required to hunt for a used copy. You know what, though? I fucking hate that. In the era of bandwidth caps, expensive memory cards, and hard drives that fill up way too fast, that's the last thing I want; an all-digital gaming future would make me completely quit buying new games. Exactly how much money does a game developer or publisher get from someone who quits gaming?

Includes NeoGAF reference.

Take a look at popular gaming community NeoGAF for an example. The original "Official Thread" for Spec Ops: The Line currently has 786 posts. Meanwhile, the "Late to the Party" thread has over 2,000, despite being created six months later. Think the increase in discussion and participants was because of a bunch of people buying new copies of the game from store shelves? No. That was used games and heavily discounted digital sales — and then later, the PS+ giveaway. If that game gets a sequel, you can bet it will sell a lot more than The Line did.

Of all the things to talk about in the games industry, why are we wasting time trying to thwart used games sales instead of talking more about the growing problem of half-finished games? If your game's players can upload compliation YouTube videos of the wackiest gltiches in your game, and it's less than a month old, um, you've got bigger things to worry about than second-hand software sales.

Etc.

But yeah. Take away used games, then you take away quite a few gamers -- ones who are indeed putting money into the industry.

 

[gatti-man]

I agree twitter isn't important but we need fast action on this topic. A letter campaign could take months to get rolling. In this situation it was twitter or busy imo.

 

[antitrop]

Includes NeoGAF reference.

Take a look at popular gaming community NeoGAF for an example. The original "Official Thread" for Spec Ops: The Line currently has 786 posts. Meanwhile, the "Late to the Party" thread has over 2,000, despite being created six months later. Think the increase in discussion and participants was because of a bunch of people buying new copies of the game from store shelves? No. That was used games and heavily discounted digital sales — and then later, the PS+ giveaway. If that game gets a sequel, you can bet it will sell a lot more than The Line did.

FUCK



YES

Highest of fucking fives to whoever wrote that shit, that's what I'm talking about.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

I don't get it, why is there an assumption that later sales need to be used sales?

 

[antitrop]

I don't get it, why is there an assumption that later sales need to be used sales?

That's a pretty silly connection, I think.

I was more just happy about the recognition of the difference between the Spec Ops OT and LTTP, a fact I've pointed out several times here on NeoGAF. I don't really think it has shit to do with used games at all, though, haha.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Ah, OK. I also think it's cool when games can overcome an initial lukewarm reception and sell strongly later based on word of mouth. I just didn't understand why that guy equated that with used games being awesome.

 

[Big Takeover]

I don't get it, why is there an assumption that later sales need to be used sales?

If there is, it's the wrong assumption. Cheaper prices sell more games, and in the case of Spec Ops, new copies were dirt cheap almost immediately. Used does factor in of course, but it's just a slice of the pie just like any other.

 

[quickfire13]

Well, just touching on why I agree with everyone about TB and this thread with a personal story of my own.

I bought a PS3 on December 31, 2006. Around November 2007, the Blu-Ray Drive went in my original PS3 and I was without the ability to play PS3 games until August 2009 when the Slim came out(on release fay of the SKU). Obviously in the near two years that I didn't have a functioning PS3, I was not purchasing video games at all so I missed out on a lot. However, when franchises like Uncharted and Resistance came out with newer installments, I felt the need to play the older ones first...without Used Games, I would never have been able to do that at the time.

 

[antitrop]

Well, just touching on why I agree with everyone about TB and this thread with a personal story of my own.

I bought a PS3 on December 31, 2006. Around November 2007, the Blu-Ray Drive went in my original PS3 and I was without the ability to play PS3 games until August 2009 when the Slim came out(on release fay of the SKU). Obviously in the near two years that I didn't have a functioning PS3, I was not purchasing video games at all so I missed out on a lot. However, when franchises like Uncharted and Resistance came out with newer installments, I felt the need to play the older ones first...without Used Games, I would never have been able to do that at the time.

I do understand why this is a compelling story in favor of used games, but I do not think it's a particularly effective one at showing why you disagree with someone like TB or the guys at Giant Bomb. They have demonstrated that they are willing to give up used games in order for an all-DD future where you would be able to download those games for a discounted price at will.

Actually, I think it ends up supporting their argument because in an all-DD future you would have been able to play your game console without an optical drive, haha.

 

[Acorn]

So total biscuit continues to be a total belligerent cunt.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

without Used Games, I would never have been able to do that at the time.

Uhh... really?

 

[TheLight]

Could you please point out for me where I took it even remotely personally?

Don't bother, captain. He came in with his own agenda.

 

[quickfire13]

I do understand why this is a compelling story in favor of used games, but I do not think it's a particularly effective one at showing why you disagree with someone like TB or the guys at GiantBomb that are willing to give up used games in order for an all-DD future where you would be able to download those games for a discounted price at will.

Actually, I think it ends up supporting their argument because in an all-DD future you would have been able to play your game console without an optical drive, haha.

Sorry, forgot to add in the relevant part to my disagreement. But I will sum part of it up in a short list:

1) Do not have THAT stable of internet connection
2) Prefer physical media (eventually will have to deal without this)
3) I live in an area affected by Hurricane Sandy, I was without power for almost two weeks and the thought of not being able to play games without fighting a process or whatever needs to be done after such an event is an extremely frustrating thought. I can only imagine the frustration and headache the DRMs et all that go along with an all-DD future for someone in a more vulnerable spot.

I DO see an all-DD FUTURE but the way it is being implemented is too narrow-sighted and isn't supported by the current architecture of internet connections in most places (not just the USA). Therefore, I think saying we must accept it and move on is inconsiderate of alot of serious concerns.

 

[DarkFlow]

Uhh... really?

$15.69 vs $4.29 for a private used sale. Which one do you think most people would pick?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Always thought the guy was an irritating blowhard. I guess he's worth watching if you like seeing someone who's shit at games masturbating over option screens.

 

[antitrop]

Sorry, forgot to add in the relevant part to my disagreement. But I will sum part of it up in a short list:

1) Do not have THAT stable of internet connection
2) Prefer physical media (eventually will have to deal without this)
3) I live in an area affected by Hurricane Sandy, I was without power for almost two weeks and the thought of not being able to play games without fighting a process or whatever needs to be done after such an event is an extremely frustrating thought. I can only imagine the frustration and headache the DRMs et all that go along with an all-DD future for someone in a more vulnerable spot.

I DO see an all-DD FUTURE but the way it is being implemented is too narrow-sighted and isn't supported by the current architecture of internet connections in most places (not just the USA). Therefore, I think saying we must accept it and move on is inconsiderate of alot of serious concerns.

Yup, sure, I understand and agree with all that.

 

[quickfire13]

Uhh... really?

Resistance 1: I got for somewhere between $10-15 from a Blockbuster going out of business around the time

Uncharted 1: I had purchased from Gamestop for only a bit more from that nearly 4 years ago.

I think the relevancy to Used Games helping someone on a budget is considerable. Also, in 2009, I would have been 16(?) so I did not have my own debit card, so it was alot easier going into a Gamestop with an adult and buying than trying to convince someone to order from Amazon for me.

That age range, where alot of us were entranced by games, are the ones most affected by this, at least in my opinion. Especially as someone whose mother didn't necessarily support video games, I had to buy both PS3s ($599-saved for so long- and 1st Slim) by myself and alot of times she would refuse to order online, but going into a store with an uncle or something after going to the movies (Gamestop is right by there) and buying a used game with my own money was so nice.

 

[Game Guru]

Mind fucking blown.

Indeed, only GameStop and Best Buy have Steam Gift Cards for sale to the best of my knowledge. You could literally trade in your used games for games on Steam.