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[Metallix87]

Playing Devil's Advocate almost immediately means you're going to be a dick. Not so here, but come on. That's played out.

And it's not a comedy show, it's a stage event for a video game console. George Carlin wouldn't pull this shit if he was MCing here.

I'm not saying he would. I'm not trying to defend the individual in question. My point was, some people on here were suggesting that some things should be off limits for even comedians, and I disagree with that.

That said, this comedian is an asshole, plain and simple, and picked the wrong venue to make such "jokes", made too many of those jokes, and refused to man up to his mistakes.

 

[Baleoce]

This is horrible, sorry you had to experience it.

 

[freenudemacusers]

That their official policy differs from what happened with no word since is the story, not that they have done things that may mitigate this action in the past.

It's Sunday 8AM PST. Give them a few moments.

 

[Trame]

If it's Microsoft's fault, then you may as well move our into the woods in Minnesota and become self-sufficient, because there isn't a multi-billion dollar company in the world that hasn't unknowingly hired people that are hateful or don't think before acting. Boycott everything and live in a hand-built cabin.

Good point, if you feel like a corporation has any responsibility for the actions of their employees in the course of performing their official job-related duties you should live in a shack in the woods for the rest of your life.

Wait, maybe this isn't the excellent, well-reasoned point you thought it would be when you posted it. Why Minnesota?

 

[JennyTablina]

C'mon now.. of course it is. You know how comedians are. They usually talk with the people they get on stage. If they had something like a dialogue going on "Hey what's your name?" "Laura" "Wooah. That's a deep voice" "Yeah I'm transgender" "Ah ok. What should I say then? He, she, it?" "Hahaha, whatever you like!" "Okay "it" it is!" Hardy har har Laura not visibly offended. "Okay then we need another real woman on stage" Hardy har har.

Yes since Laura seems quite upset about these we can assume it didn't go that way. But reaction and interaction is definitely relevant.

Uhh...people who are trans are usually pretty sensitive with the gender pronouns for many reasons. They spent a long time being something they didn't want to be, and many desire to be accepted as what they believe themselves to truly be. To call a trans person anything other than what they want to be referred to is incredibly offensive.

Also nobody wants to be called it, I'm not trans, but kids used to call me "it" or "that thing" when I was bullied at school. Dehumanising a person makes them a real easy target for cruelity.

 

[Mesoian]

If an employee at McDonald's calls me overweight, did McDonald's offend me, or did the employee offend me?

Granted, I admitted MS is wrong for not ensuring that the woman is apologized to, but in what alternate reality is Microsoft disgusting for this incident? You've misplaced some of the blame.

The employee offended you, and it's Microsoft's job to take care of the damages, just as it would be McDonald's.

And for those comparing to Kramer at the laugh factory, it's not their fault he went off the rails, but they still needed to offer apologies and refunds.

Granted, this is a tougher situation because it wasn't a comedy club, it was a presentation that occurred in a work environment, not somewhere where you would expect to be in a position where you may get made fun of like you might be in the front row of a comedy club, that's why the "Comedians can't say certain things" deal is coming up here. If it's their stage and everyone in the audience is there to see them and knows what to expect, absolutely. But a comedian can't walk down the street and get into people's faces about whatever because, "hey, I'm a comedian, anything can be funny." That just makes you an asshole.

So yeah, the comedian should have apologized and Microsoft should have used better judgment in their hiring qualifications. Not everyone is Jaime Kennedy, not everyone is Aisha Tyler.

 

[RMI]

Just because Microsoft has a legacy of being non-discriminatory, doesn't mean their employees, or people employed by them for events, can't act like total dickwads. Obviously. So I don't see how any of that has any bearing on this particular event, the guy they hired, or the MS staff covering for him.

 

[AuthenticM]

This guy?
https://twitter.com/FraserMillward

Seems like it.

 

[Chezzymann]

Have you met Chick Fil A?

I really wish people like this would stop being idiots and actually read up on a situation before saying crap like this. The owner of Chick Fil A said that he doesn't agree with the idea of gay marriage. That doesn't mean the company itself is like that at all. I know several homosexual people that work for chick fil a and love it there.

 

[theRizzle]

Good lord. Absolutely awful.

The incident or some of the posts in this thread?

 

[UNCMark]

Just because Microsoft has a legacy of being non-discriminatory, doesn't mean their employees, or people employed by them for events, can't act like total dickwads. Obviously. So I don't see how any of that has any bearing on this particular event, the guy they hired, or the MS staff covering for him.

Their history means they'll get the benefit of the doubt from the LGBT community. They've earned it.

I really wish people like this would stop being idiots and actually read up on a situation before saying crap like this. The owner of Chick Fil A said that he doesn't agree with the idea of gay marriage. That doesn't mean the company is like that. I know several homosexual people that work for chick fil a and love it there.

It means exactly that the company is like that. It represents the owners stance! He actively used profits from his company to fund anti-gay marriage movements.

 

[Jenga]

everypony needs to calm down before condemning M$

 

[leadbelly]

Seems really strange that he would think that type of language was acceptable. Clearly it was obvious this person was transgendered or else he wouldn't have made the comments he did. That makes me wonder if he completely misunderstood the situation. Maybe he thought it was just a man dressed in drag and ran with that.

On the other hand, you'd imagine it was a somewhat unexpected turn of events that caught him a little off guard. Being comedian, he must have felt he needed to make something funny out of the situation. It could be that he was intentionally saying the most inappropriate things for comic effect. The joke wouldn't be aimed squarely at her, but his own awkwardness in handling it. Of course in that scenario, it would have been a very bad misjudgment on his part. Not taking into account that it might come across as extremely offensive.

I would need to know more of the details really.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for a second. While I can understand the anger from people here, I do tend to agree with the old George Carlin school of thought that anything can be made a joke of / made fun of by a comedian. Nothing should be off limits.

That being said, shame on the dude for carrying it on for so long, and for not having the balls to come out and apologize to her in person. I'm certain he must have been made aware that she was requesting to speak with him, and clearly he realized he fucked up. If anything, though, we can take some comfort in the fact that by refusing to handle the situation, he's likely hurting his own career even more than he already did.

I agree that nothing should be off-limits in general, but it's different when you are mocking a specific individual, to their face, in front of a crowd. If the joke were literally the funniest thing ever said then maybe it would justify hurting a specific, innocent person (and even then many would disagree that it's ever acceptable). Surely, calling someone "it" is not such a joke. Furthermore, it's extremely difficult for a joke at the expense of someone who is already a powerless victim to be funny. Personal attack comedy is to bring down people in higher positions (or who believe themselves to be in higher positions than they are), not for shitting on people who are already low.

E.g., you can make a funny joke about race, but if the joke is about a specific individual who was victimized due to their race, it's unlikely many people (outside of actual racists) will find it funny.

 

[Shellshock929]

How were they to know that he'd make a joke like that? It wasn't their fault they'd assume he wouldn't make such an offensive comment.

And they could've handled the aftermath better I'll admit, but you can't go blaming Microsoft for everything.

A friend of mine wanted me to post this for him. He once worked with Microsoft, and wanted to shed light on this issue.

"As someone who has worked with the video game industry and video game PR, this is a very big deal. While the comedian was not part of Microsoft the company, he would be technically called a "third party partner" in industry terms. Ergo, they picked him out, payed him, put him on stage and endorsed him with their brand and products. At that time, in PR terms, he was representing the Microsoft brand publically, and thus is a reflection of their company especially to people who do not know any better. Since Microsoft is now one of the biggest players in the video game industry to the point where at one time they WERE the industry by brand power alone, what their actions cause will convince the majority that this is what the game industry is like in general, with cherry picking supporting evidence like Rashid's public posts not helping.

Even if they had no idea he would make such a stupid action to blemish their brand, Microsoft could have done what I've seen Nintendo do (but they are usually smart enough in planning they rarely have to) which is to have at least one Microsoft rep on stage and as soon as that flew out to yank the guy off the stage, put a better rep from the company asap and apologize in person to the lady and the audience afterwards for the mistake. It would be a blemish but would be smaller and less out of control than it is now. What's worse is when you look at Microsoft's track record, this is another example telling the industry that Microsoft's left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. If they are having base problems like this with 3rd party partners and things like "nobody lives in a submarine", "buy a 360 for no DRM" and "DRM is hard to get rid of, give me the mic" that gives a hint that the entire company is this unorganized and messed up, further tarnishing the trust between the brand and the gamer."

 

[BronsonLee]

Just because Microsoft has a legacy of being non-discriminatory, doesn't mean their employees, or people employed by them for events, can't act like total dickwads. Obviously. So I don't see how any of that has any bearing on this particular event, the guy they hired, or the MS staff covering for him.

Because people were trying to claim MS wouldn't do anything about it, or that they have some sort of agenda.

It's providing historical data that shows that this isn't how Microsoft has a company acts at all (they're extremely progressive in this regard), and if history is, again, any indicator, this dude is about to get buried.

 

[kikonawa]

What a big deal over what? A guy with rainbow colored hair and an adamsappel as big zs a fist.. this is gamingnews?

 

[Impeccable]

Yeah, well , I'm sorry but can this be removed. It doesn't fit in with the whole we hate Microsoft for being bigoted pigs mantra we got going on in this thread.

Can shit like this just die already, no one has implied MS is anti-anything. The fact remains this comedy was hired on a contractual basis to host an event representing Microsoft.

With MS having a good history it is pretty obvious they WILL apologize. If they don't I would be astonished.

 

[DeviantBoi]

He might have been hired for the event, but what about the other people on stage who refused to give his name? Why were MS reps trying to protect him?

 

[Lime]

Demonise entire industry over the outrageous behaviour of the singular person. Thats why its hard to take social justice movements seriously due to the gigantic exaggerating taking place on the other side.

Anger at this happening aside, no shits going to change if you blow things hugely out of proportion.

Where is all this coming from?

 

[EightBitNate]

The employee offended you, and it's Microsoft's job to take care of the damages, just as it would be McDonald's. .

That is precisely what I just said. MS should've apologized, but that doesn't mean the comedian's views are Microsoft's views.

 

[Ashadur]

I was at Eurogamer on Thursday, and i know who she's talking about, the guy humiliated a lot of the people just trying to compete in their giveaway (which i find funny, 4 giveaways of the 360 and one giveaway of the Xbone). I understand the guy is trying to make people laugh and get people to join in, but the way in which he humiliated the people dancing on stage was not right.

 

[Rizsparky]

On her twitter page, why is she re tweeting all the hate? Block them!

 

[Imperfected]

Microsoft can't control what some comedian says on stage.

There's someone whose job it was to hire the comedian for the show. That person had the implied responsibility of properly vetting the comedian they hired to make sure he was appropriate for the show, and for briefing him on what was tolerable and expected of him in the due course of performing for the show.

I really don't understand how there are people in this thread who think multi-billion dollar corporations just hire random schmucks for high-profile press events and then wash their hands of whatever happens. At the very least, someone in Microsoft Europe's PR department was extremely negligent in his duties and should be ashamed of himself.

 

[aeolist]

everypony needs to calm down before condemning M$

this is it

this is the worst post

 

[thetrin]

The incident or some of the posts in this thread?

Both!

What a big deal over what? A guy with rainbow colored hair and an adamsappel as big zs a fist.. this is gamingnews?

...wow.

 

[Brianimaniac]

Good point, if you feel like a corporation has any responsibility for the actions of their employees in the course of performing their official job-related duties you should live in a shack in the woods for the rest of your life.

Wait, maybe this isn't the excellent, well-reasoned point you thought it would be when you posted it. Why Minnesota?

They didn't hire the guy knowing that he would do this, so how is it their fault that it happened? Of course they need to address it after the fact, but how can you blame them for the fact that it happened? What was the specific mistake they made? What did they do before the comment was made that makes this their fault?

 

[TheStevo]

That's unfortunate. Not really surprising though, but I was expecting it more from the gaming community not just a loan comedian third party contractor. Sometimes racism or sexism (or purposely offensive jokes) in comedy can cross lines. And other times we have to hold a thick skin and aptly recognize that the vast majority of comedy is not "personal" but it's a reactionary shift oriented product of what's in front of comedians. As a moderator at Gamespot, that GTAV review alone showed me how distasteful gamers can be.

 

[UNCMark]

On her twitter page, why is she re tweeting all the hate? Block them!

Negativity fuels some people. Let her handle it the way she wants.

 

[killer_clank]

People using this to bash Microsoft are idiots, but this guy is also a total idiot. It's 2013, can't we be getting past this stuff?

 

[Metallix87]

I agree that nothing should be off-limits in general, but it's different when you are mocking a specific individual, to their face, in front of a crowd. If the joke were literally the funniest thing ever said then maybe it would justify hurting a specific, innocent person (and even then many would disagree that it's ever acceptable). Surely, calling someone "it" is not such a joke. Furthermore, it's extremely difficult for a joke at the expense of someone who is already a powerless victim to be funny. Personal attack comedy is to bring down people in higher positions (or who believe themselves to be in higher positions than they are), not for shitting on people who are already low.

E.g., you can make a funny joke about race, but if the joke is about a specific individual who was victimized due to their race, it's unlikely many people (outside of actual racists) will find it funny.

Agreed, but again, as I said, I'm not defending this individual, just fighting claims that some things are off-limits.

 

[freenudemacusers]

everypony needs to calm down before condemning M$

10/10

 

[twobear]

On her twitter page, why is she re tweeting all the hate? Block them!

To make it as difficult as possible for people to bury their heads and pretend that 'gamer culture' doesn't have a problem with transgendered people (as well as minority/disenfranchised groups more generally).

 

[Cmagus]

I'm not saying he would. I'm not trying to defend the individual in question. My point was, some people on here were suggesting that some things should be off limits for even comedians, and I disagree with that.

That said, this comedian is an asshole, plain and simple, and picked the wrong venue to make such "jokes", made too many of those jokes, and refused to man up to his mistakes.

The difference in this situation though is sure comedians can be raunchy and offensive but this was certainly not the time or place. It's one thing to go and see a comedian in a comedy venue where if you're familiar with this guy and you know his comedy and what to expect then you kind of know what you're getting but this was a public event.

Sucks for the journalist no one should be made of an example of like that and Microsoft should have done more to ensure an appropriate apology was made. The comedian should have also apologized the journalist must have felt like shit at that point.

 

[inky]

Pretty scary to live in a world where people are this kind of human garbage:

What a big deal over what? A guy with rainbow colored hair and an adamsappel as big zs a fist.. this is gamingnews?

 

[KarmaCow]

On her twitter page, why is she re tweeting all the hate? Block them!

Nah, I'd rather she continue to publicly shame them with their own words. Helps us know who these kind of people are and what she has to deal with from dickbags.

 

[Superman]

Disgraceful.

 

[jdmonmou]

I was at Eurogamer on Thursday, and i know who she's talking about, the guy humiliated a lot of the people just trying to compete in their giveaway (which i find funny, 4 giveaways of the 360 and one giveaway of the Xbone). I understand the guy is trying to make people laugh and get people to join in, but the way in which he humiliated the people dancing on stage was not right.

Interesting...can you recall some of the things he said towards the people dancing on stage?

 

[Deleted member 10571]

On her twitter page, why is she re tweeting all the hate? Block them!

'Cause she wants to show the world what she probably gets to hear very, very often. I can understand that, and if nothing more she's revealing those idiots to society.

Another quote from her:

Oh god there's a NeoGaf thread. Putting it out there, I don't support threatening him or using foul language. Don't fight his poor choic[e of words, I guess] ...

So yeah, not that I think GAF would do that (there are better avenues for that kind of social business), but just think about it before you start campaigning.

edit: What is this, three bans now? What is up with GAF today ._.

 

[EightBitNate]

A friend of mine wanted me to post this for him. He once worked with Microsoft, and wanted to shed light on this issue.

"As someone who has worked with the video game industry and video game PR, this is a very big deal. While the comedian was not part of Microsoft the company, he would be technically called a "third party partner" in industry terms. Ergo, they picked him out, payed him, put him on stage and endorsed him with their brand and products. At that time, in PR terms, he was representing the Microsoft brand publically, and thus is a reflection of their company especially to people who do not know any better. Since Microsoft is now one of the biggest players in the video game industry to the point where at one time they WERE the industry by brand power alone, what their actions cause will convince the majority that this is what the game industry is like in general, with cherry picking supporting evidence like Rashid's public posts not helping.

Even if they had no idea he would make such a stupid action to blemish their brand, Microsoft could have done what I've seen Nintendo do (but they are usually smart enough in planning they rarely have to) which is to have at least one Microsoft rep on stage and as soon as that flew out to yank the guy off the stage, put a better rep from the company asap and apologize in person to the lady and the audience afterwards for the mistake. It would be a blemish but would be smaller and less out of control than it is now. What's worse is when you look at Microsoft's track record, this is another example telling the industry that Microsoft's left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. If they are having base problems like this with 3rd party partners and things like "nobody lives in a submarine", "buy a 360 for no DRM" and "DRM is hard to get rid of, give me the mic" that gives a hint that the entire company is this unorganized and messed up, further tarnishing the trust between the brand and the gamer."

I agree with most of this, that the situation was handled like piss, but I was just saying it's wrong to pin the guy's views on Microsoft.

There's someone whose job it was to hire the comedian for the show. That person had the implied responsibility of properly vetting the comedian they hired to make sure he was appropriate for the show, and for briefing him on what was tolerable and expected of him in the due course of performing for the show.

I really don't understand how there are people in this thread who think multi-billion dollar corporations just hire random schmucks for high-profile press events and then wash their hands of whatever happens. At the very least, someone in Microsoft Europe's PR department was extremely negligent in his duties and should be ashamed of himself.

As I've stated before, there's no proof yet that this didn't happen. It most likely did happen.

I really don't understand how there are people in this thread who think multi-billion dollar corporations just hire random schmucks for high-profile press events and don't give them strict guidelines and contracts. We know absolutely nothing of what happened prior to the event, but do you really think that such rules weren't laid down? The guy just thought it would be funny and ignored the rules.

 

[freenudemacusers]

...wow.

I know right? I like that these are getting deleted, lets the next one step up unfettered by ban fear.

 

[Rickenslacker]

.

Not even gonna keep the quote; I don't know what is with the difficulty some have with being respectful towards others.

 

[theRizzle]

They didn't hire the guy knowing that he would do this, so how is it their fault that it happened? Of course they need to address it after the fact, but how can you blame them for the fact that it happened? What was the specific mistake they made? What did they do before the comment was made that makes this their fault?

Nothing. That's how this shit works.

If you don't properly vet the people you hire or make very clear what they CAN and CANNOT say (which is especially important when hiring a comedian), stuff like this can and will happen. When you hire someone, you are responsible for them. You can't just put someone on a stage with no direction.

 

[Silky]

To make it as difficult as possible for people to bury their heads and pretend that 'gamer culture' doesn't have a problem with transgendered people (as well as minority/disenfranchised groups more generally).

I like the phrase 'general equality.'

 

[Whompa]

Wow...that all sounds awful

 

[The_Monk]

Without offending and judging those GAFfers who made really bad and pointless posts, thank you fellow Mods for removing them.

Not even gonna keep the quote; I don't know what is with the difficulty some have with being respectful towards others.

I truly agree with this post.

 

[wakajawaka]

What a big deal over what? A guy with rainbow colored hair and an adamsappel as big zs a fist.. this is gamingnews?

At least these posts have something good... they help cleanse gaf a bit

 

[charsace]

When hiring a comedian to do something like this you have to be very careful. They have charisma and can think quickly on their feet, but they will make fun of every and anything. I've seen guys take a news paper on stage and just read through the obituary, cracking jokes the whole time.

 

[Mesoian]

They didn't hire the guy knowing that he would do this, so how is it their fault that it happened? Of course they need to address it after the fact, but how can you blame them for the fact that it happened? What was the specific mistake they made? What did they do before the comment was made that makes this their fault?

They hired him. They are still responsible for his words and actions, even if those words and actions aren't their own. That's what it means to have someone speak on behest of your company. That's why live events and television editorials have the, "the ideals of this person do not necessarily represent the ideals of our company" disclaimer before they go on the air.

They're still on the hook for this.

 

[nothingxs]

People try to find any little thing to bash MS.

I don't know that this is just "any little thing"