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[duckroll]

They didn't do Eternal Sonata, that was Tri-crescendo.

Your point still stands though, and I agree. Though I think it turns out Eternal Sonata shares a similar problem even if not developed by them.

I think the difference is that tri-Crescendo has like 25 employees, and tri-Ace has like 130 employees. That's a pretty huge difference.

 

[Black Republican]

I think the difference is that tri-Crescendo has like 25 employees, and tri-Ace has like 130 employees. That's a pretty huge difference.

Ducky can you give me anyhope Game Arts will do a new Grandia? fuck that online bullshit

 

[PedroPanache]

You obviously haven't heard anything from them in years, what's with your silly generalization.

I have. Most of it is mediocre. The last really good soundtrack from Square-Enix was probably Final Fantasy X-2, which is incredibly underrated. Final Fantasy XIII's soundtrack was dull and ill-fitting, especially in the cutscenes where it trampled over the dialogue with its nauseating melodrama, which were melodramatic enough without the music. That's not to say there weren't some good tracks in there, but they don't compare to the consistency of something like Valkyrie Profile.

 

[duckroll]

Ducky can you give me anyhope Game Arts will do a new Grandia? fuck that online bullshit

Takeshi Miyaji is the director of the original Grandia games, and the co-founder of GameArts. A decade ago he left the company to start up some new studio. In 2011 he died. I don't think there's any hope, sorry. GameArts is currently a fully owned subsidiary of GungHo, while Square Enix retains the IP rights. So it wouldn't be possible anyway.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Nintendo already has Monolith Soft for their JRPG exclusives.

Don't know about Sony though.

Nintendo has a home console that is tanking hard and is in desperate need of games.

I'm not even sure what the last JRPG published by Sony was. I think some Vita game but I can't remember its name. Fairly low profile stuff.

 

[Stone Ocean]

But who would want them? I think that's the real issue here. I think Hexadrive has the same issues. They're also a technically proficient studio made up of many veterans from Capcom. Unlike tri-Ace, they specialize in 3D action games. But even then they have tons of problem getting original contracts. Their development titles are stuff like The 3rd Birthday and EX Troopers, while stuff they're more known for these days are doing super HD ports like Okami HD and the new ZoE2 HD patch.

I think it's rather unfortunate, but that seems to be the reality in Japan these days.

Can't they pitch stuff to the west?

 

[MilkBeard]

tri-Ace is pretty much on their last legs. They've been taking any sort of work they can just to pay their employees but nothing makes money and no one wants to work with them anymore. After a few PSP games and a bomba 3DS for Konami, they even tried developing a social browser game which ran like crap, and the service was closed after a few months. Give up on the developer.

Where's the proof exactly? As long as they are getting work (i.e. Final Fantasy XIII-2, Lightning Returns, etc.) then they will still be in business. Haven't really heard anything bad, although I know their games generally don't sell amazingly.

If you don't have any other proof than connecting the dots then I'd rather not jump to conclusions about them going under. They have been pretty productive this generation after all. If anything, I can see SE turning them into a workhorse studio simply because they are very technically proficient.


Also, those who say JRPGs are going extinct and no one is making them anymore, I'd say Level 5 and Tales studio would want to have a word with you.

 

[Coxy]

Takeshi Miyaji is the director of the original Grandia games, and the co-founder of GameArts. A decade ago he left the company to start up some new studio. In 2011 he died. I don't think there's any hope, sorry. GameArts is currently a fully owned subsidiary of GungHo, while Square Enix retains the IP rights. So it wouldn't be possible anyway.

Square Enix do not and never had any rights to the IP whatsoever. Their only relationship to the series is publishing the 3rd game

 

[Pinko Marx]

Star Ocean: The Second Story and Valkyrie Profile 1/2 are some of my favorite games of all time. This is really hard for me to read, damn. tri-Ace games were the first games where I pretty much attempted and eventually succeeded at getting into "endgame" content.

I feel the same way. I have very fond memories of SO2 and VP1. But I came to terms with things a while ago. After their shitty HD output this gen and SO3 I pretty much wrote them off.

 

[duckroll]

Square Enix do not and never had any rights to the IP whatsoever. Their only relationship to the series is publishing the 3rd game

You're right. I just checked, and GameArts owns the trademarks and copyright to Grandia. That's pretty cool. I wonder why GungHo hasn't done anything with it then.

 

[Astery]

Can't they pitch stuff to the west?

I doubt they will have even half of the same creative freedom even if there's publishers in the west that would accept the idea(s). Meanwhile the west would likely rather stick with western studios for easier communication and more advanced tech etc. When Japanese giant publishers...like SE for example putting all faith in Eidos wing and likely ignoring whatever Tri-Ace wants to do, it's the same problem they will face.

I do believe kick starter is the best option for Tri-Ace if they have an American based office as Kick starter does not support Japan and Asia still at the moment. But the budget goal will be quite high I guess.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well at least Valkyrie Profile 2 ended on a good note. Especially since Lightning Returns is probably parodying the VP series in a way.

Didn't some programmer dude from Tri-Ace leave the company a month or so ago?

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

The worst thing is all the lost knowledge these guys have. From a graphics/engine/combat/character building perspective, they are pretty damn high tier and it's just going to go to waste outside of grunt work.

I would agree with 'pretty good', I liked those games too, but not to the extent of being super upset if they caved. I mean I feel a certain level of bad when any developer goes under, but I would not be super upset by modern Tri-Ace's fall.

SO4 was just terribad outside the battle system, it had some of the worst fucking characters and story. It's funny how Tales of had a very similar entry this generation with Tales of Graces. Considering Tales and Star Ocean started off essentially under one roof. Though Tales has redeemed themselves since then, Tri-Ace has not.

I made that connection too! NB however, is much more tied to consoles though. With another retreat in the works out of nowhere, that makes them even more distinct.

Where's the proof exactly? As long as they are getting work (i.e. Final Fantasy XIII-2, Lightning Returns, etc.) then they will still be in business. Haven't really heard anything bad, although I know their games generally don't sell amazingly.

If you don't have any other proof than connecting the dots then I'd rather not jump to conclusions about them going under. They have been pretty productive this generation after all. If anything, I can see SE turning them into a workhorse studio simply because they are very technically proficient.


Also, those who say JRPGs are going extinct and no one is making them anymore, I'd say Level 5 and Tales studio would want to have a word with you.

This isn't about every JRPG developer because of ONE JRPG developer's particular fate. Don't broadbrush this.

Besides, getting a rep as a studio who gets work on other's projects at grunt work is hard to shake after long at that task AND as Duckroll said, that work is drying up as only SE and NB have big precesnce on consoles and have the money to pay for the size that tri is capable of and therefore on call for. Note also their nice looking engine they coded not to far back to no takers. Also they've lost high ranking members, so that's another knock.

 

[Coxy]

You're right. I just checked, and GameArts owns the trademarks and copyright to Grandia. That's pretty cool. I wonder why GungHo hasn't done anything with it then.

They did Grandia Online and it was a disaster

 

[MechaX]

So basically what duckroll is saying is that I'll never get Valkyrie Profile 3: Hrist.

 

[MagiusNecros]

So basically what duckroll is saying is that I'll never get Valkyrie Profile 3: Hrist.

Blame Wylfred.

 

[duckroll]

They did Grandia Online and it was a disaster

I'm sorry I asked.

 

[Valentus]

The Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile IPS are owned by Tri-Ace?

If that's the case, you know what to do Sony to revive your pathetic Japan Studio.

 

[ekka4shiki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cuXgRVMvZ0

Still waiting something comes out of this tech demo...

Spoiler

 

[Nightengale]

If that's the case, you know what to do Sony to revive your pathetic Japan Studio.

Why buy a half-dead company now when they can buy at their death's door instead?

 

[Asd202]

Also, those who say JRPGs are going extinct and no one is making them anymore, I'd say Level 5 and Tales studio would want to have a word with you.

With the recent Level 5 conference I find that sentence hilarious .

 

[MagiusNecros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cuXgRVMvZ0

Still waiting something comes out of this tech demo...

Spoiler

Don't get your hopes up.

 

[Manu]

It's a real shame we'll never see Valkyrie Profile 3. 2 was one of the best looking games on PS2. I really think it looked better than God of War 2.

I would have loved to see what these guys could do in this current gen or the next.

Good riddance.

 

[chaosblade]

I would have loved to see what these guys could do in this current gen or the next.

They made Resonance of Fate.

 

[Manu]

They made Resonance of Fate.

Sorry, I meant strictly on Valkyrie Profile 3 (I haven't played Resonance of Fate yet, it's definitely on my radar)

 

[MilkBeard]

With the recent Level 5 conference I find that sentence hilarious .

Not really sure what they are working on going into the future, but a full-fledged rpg was localized and released worldwide a few months ago. I think that counts enough. Honestly I don't really like their games, to be honest. I was more of a Tri-Ace fan, ha ha.

Sometimes I wonder how Bandai Namco can keep Tales going strong while everyone else flounders. Seems they know how to cater to their fans, and also how to cut corners in cost where it matters.

Tales of Xillia is a very good game, but like all JRPGs this gen, it has some drawbacks. But playing it has taken me back to a time when I really loved to play them. Tales games have a lot of the spirit of Star Ocean so I'm going to continue to support them.

--
Back on topic, I'm not going to count Tri-Ace out. It's true that they haven't been able to get any original work but that could change for this new generation of consoles.

That being said, even with the mixed bag that was Star Ocean 4, I still really enjoyed it in the end (actually once you get to

Spoiler

Earth

things pick up, and by the time you are on planet Roak, pretty much all the problems I had with the game disappeared). I've actually been feeling like replaying it lately. Even if they made a Star Ocean 5 and it happened to have the same problems as 4, I would still buy it, play it to completion, and end up enjoying it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

We already got a new Star Ocean. From GREE.

 

[MilkBeard]

This isn't about every JRPG developer because of ONE JRPG developer's particular fate. Don't broadbrush this.

Oh yeah, as for this...I was speaking about a separate topic but didn't really indicate that very well. There were a few posts earlier in the thread about how JRPGs are extinct, or what have you, but I just found that to be not true. After all, the Tales series itself seems to thrive no matter what; I think that series is the everlasting steam-engine of JRPGs. It can thrive on sub-million sales and continue to be a success. But then there are still the small developers as well that have been mentioned in this thread.

But you know that already.

 

[Asd202]

We already got a new Star Ocean. From GREE.

aaaaa Kill it with fire!!! But seriously I would really want to play new Star Ocean especially if fury from SO 3 made a comeback that was a great mechanic that prevented spam I really disliked rush in SO 4 and overall SO 3 BS > SO 4 BS.

 

[Nightengale]

Sometimes I wonder how Bandai Namco can keep Tales going strong while everyone else flounders. Seems they know how to cater to their fans, and also how to cut corners in cost where it matters.

Fanboys buy the games. Fangirls buy the merchandise.

And Tales were never cutting edge in graphics, anyway.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well I must restate this quote:

"If most JRPGs-regardless of the size of their budgets-have abandoned any attempt at progress and retreated to the safety of past successes, then isn't that the real reason the world is moving on without them?" - Tetsuya Takahashi

 

[LiquidSolid]

The Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile IPS are owned by Tri-Ace?

If that's the case, you know what to do Sony to revive your pathetic Japan Studio.

Wrong. Square Enix own both series.

And I'm struggling to understand how Japan Studio is pathetic or how buying Tri-Ace would fix anything.

 

[Asd202]

Well I must restate this quote:

"If most JRPGs-regardless of the size of their budgets-have abandoned any attempt at progress and retreated to the safety of past successes, then isn't that the real reason the world is moving on without them?" - Tetsuya Takahashi

Wow he really said that? My hero if so.

 

[MilkBeard]

We already got a new Star Ocean. From GREE.

This, as well as the Emperor's SaGa card game, broke my heart. It pains me to see my favorite rpg series turn out like this.

I am a big SaGa fan; SaGa Frontier was one of my favorite games and I sunk hundreds of hours into it.

Spoiler

Guess my profile picture ;P

 

[MagiusNecros]

Wrong. Square Enix own both series.

And I'm struggling to understand how Japan Studio is pathetic or how buying Tri-Ace would fix anything.

SO and VP are Enix properties that have been absorbed into the Square Enix name. To say that Square Enix flat out owns the IP is a little bold.

Wow he really said that? My hero if so.

Worth a read.

http://xenoverse.xenotensei.com/takahashi/takahashi_nintendo_power_2012.htm

 

[GunBR]

I think people got a glimmer of hope when that tech demo surfaced and I'd surely love it, but..... I don't think we will see it unfortunately. I think jrpgs on consoles are pretty much dead too. Nobody wants to make them anymore....

EDIT: Friggen' Duckroll saying the same thing seconds before me, lol.

Star Ocean is the second biggest JRPG franchise outside Japan (bigger than Dragon Quest in sales). And since SNES we always have one game per generation

So, maybe SO V isn't gonna happen, but the hope is big yet.

 

[MilkBeard]

Fanboys buy the games. Fangirls buy the merchandise.

And Tales were never cutting edge in graphics, anyway.

I think publishers/developers need to learn to find that sweet spot.

I'm perfectly okay with Xillia's graphical fidelity. It has it's weaknesses, but it has artistic beauty in some designs as well. Plus, dat Tales battle system, and those optional skits/sub quests are very satisfying.

Ni no Kuni also has a very good balance of visual fidelity and expansive world design. I'm not a huge fan of the game but it's easy to tell that Level 5 struck a good balance in the game.

EDIT: It's really all about smart design, and being able to keep things going despite whatever the market looks like. Those developers know how to meet their audience and stay afloat. It's that simple really. They don't get caught up in trying to expand beyond their means, chasing after that Call of Duty level of success.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Well, in all seriousness, what options does a studio like tri-Ace really have? They're a mid-sized developer with technology and skills which lean towards larger console projects rather than small portable stuff, and they specialize in making RPGs for the Japanese audience.

How many publishers can you think of who are even interested in producing console RPGs in Japan today? Not many? Well let's narrow it down even further. How many of those publishers don't have their own internal problems and are cutting back on production of large scale console projects? Now how many of those publishers left don't have their own production staff and are interested in funding a project by an outside developer? None? Yup, that's what I thought.

What can tri-Ace do? The industry has moved on.

Kickstarter!!

....

I'm too sad, we'll never see VP3...

 

[Cornbread78]

Star Ocean is the second biggest JRPG franchise outside Japan (bigger than Dragon Quest in sales). And since SNES we always have one game per generation

So, maybe SO V isn't gonna happen, but the hope is big yet.

The same can be said for
Suikoden
Grandia
Dragon Quest (console/ non MMO)
Legend of Mana
etc....


After skipping the entire PS360 Gen., that flicker of hope is fadign more and more... Bro gamers and casuals have flooded the market.

 

[Lumyst]

I've wondered, where are the people who enjoyed JRPGs in the 90s, are they also deciding to game on mobile devices, have they turned casual too, have they grown up and left gaming behind? Aren't there new kids/teenagers who want to play JRPGs and will become the JRPG fans of the future? I know you say bro gamers/casuals have flooded the market, but did they replace the JRPG fans or are they in addition to the JRPG fans? I really hope it's all a cycle that will correct itself in the future, maybe what it takes is a game that captivates people like FFVII did despite being a JRPG. Luckily for me I was a Nintendo console gamer (only JRPGs I played in the past were Quest 64, Pokemon, and Paper Mario series) so I was not exposed to many JRPGs and only recently discovered I liked them, so at least I've got the full extent of the past to explore (Super Nintendo, ALL the PlayStation JRPGs, handhelds...) should the future be bleak. That should last me until a JRPG renaissance hopefully happens in the future. . . or maybe I'll find that the future is Compile Heart >_<

 

[GunBR]

The same can be said for
Suikoden
Grandia
Dragon Quest (console/ non MMO)
Legend of Mana
etc....


After skipping the entire PS360 Gen., that flicker of hope is fadign more and more... Bro gamers and casuals have flooded the market.

But we have a Star Ocean to the PS360...
That's why the hope still lives

 

[isual]

so much in this thread , so painful to take in .

 

[chaosblade]

I've wondered, where are the people who enjoyed JRPGs in the 90s, are they also deciding to game on mobile devices, have they turned casual too, have they grown up and left gaming behind? Aren't there new kids/teenagers who want to play JRPGs and will become the JRPG fans of the future? I know you say bro gamers/casuals have flooded the market, but did they replace the JRPG fans or are they in addition to the JRPG fans? I really hope it's all a cycle that will correct itself in the future, maybe what it takes is a game that captivates people like FFVII did despite being a JRPG. Luckily for me I was a Nintendo console gamer (only JRPGs I played in the past were Quest 64, Pokemon, and Paper Mario series) so I was not exposed to many JRPGs and only recently discovered I liked them, so at least I've got the full extent of the past to explore (Super Nintendo, ALL the PlayStation JRPGs, handhelds...) should the future be bleak. That should last me until a JRPG renaissance hopefully happens in the future. . . or maybe I'll find that the future is Compile Heart >_<

It's not really that JRPGs were vastly more popular then, it's that they were cheaper to make and cheap localizations that would be completely unacceptable today were pretty much standard.

Considering the scope many gamers want out of JRPGs it's not really a cheap genre to develop, especially if you want to make it graphically competitive. And with bigger, more detailed worlds you end up with more text, needing higher quality localization, so expenses are increased all around. And yet, despite this, there aren't really many more people buying these games than there were in the 90s.

 

[MilkBeard]

I've wondered, where are the people who enjoyed JRPGs in the 90s, are they also deciding to game on mobile devices, have they turned casual too, have they grown up and left gaming behind? Aren't there new kids/teenagers who want to play JRPGs and will become the JRPG fans of the future? I know you say bro gamers/casuals have flooded the market, but did they replace the JRPG fans or are they in addition to the JRPG fans? I really hope it's all a cycle that will correct itself in the future, maybe what it takes is a game that captivates people like FFVII did despite being a JRPG. Luckily for me I was a Nintendo console gamer (only JRPGs I played in the past were Quest 64, Pokemon, and Paper Mario series) so I was not exposed to many JRPGs and only recently discovered I liked them, so at least I've got the full extent of the past to explore (Super Nintendo, ALL the PlayStation JRPGs, handhelds...) should the future be bleak. That should last me until a JRPG renaissance hopefully happens in the future. . . or maybe I'll find that the future is Compile Heart >_<

The funny thing is....sales for these types of games haven't really gone down, they are about the same, relatively. At least, from what I've seen. For most JRPGs outside of Final Fantasy, selling 1 million worldwide seems to be a success, it was the same then and now. Looking on Tri-Ace's own website, Star Ocean 2 & 3 both sold just over a million worldwide.

I think the issue is that the budget to continue making these games in this market has blown up exponentially without the extra sales to match. It's a sad reality. But if the small studios can do it, as well as mid-level development such as what Bandai Namco does with Tales, then it can still work out in this market. That balance just needs to be found.

But if one thing is true, it's that these games will never be mainstream, save for a random success here and there, outside of Final Fantasy. Even that series is in a bit of a jeopardy.

 

[Gintoki313]

It's sad to hear the news of tri-Ace doing bad. I looked up the games they made and I didn't even know that they made Star Ocean Second Story and Start Ocean Till The End of Time. At first I thought Square Enix made the Star Oceans but they actually just publish them to my surprise.

Too bad, I wouldn't mind another Star Ocean as long as they keep the battle system but make more bearable characters.

 

[Kincaido]

RIP ;_;

 

[LiquidSolid]

SO and VP are Enix properties that have been absorbed into the Square Enix name. To say that Square Enix flat out owns the IP is a little bold.

Are you kidding? It's not bold at all, it's a fact.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

Just to keep things coming for Tri Ace and Square Enix no longer being homies

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455981

 

[duckroll]

Just to keep things coming for Tri Ace and Square Enix no longer being homies

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455981

I like how that thread started with a tweet from Kitao about how tri-Ace was working on FFXIII-2, and the thread ended with a tweet from Kitao saying he has left tri-Ace. Sad.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Are you kidding? It's not bold at all, it's a fact.

So you meant currently. Then yes you are correct. My fault.