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[Lactose_Intolerant]

OH ho hohoh. Let's get in another dig at Anita, because why not right?

that wasn't a dig, I'm saying if she made videos like every day/week like some people, I could have seen it be the next line.

I'm going to stop, I don't want to get banned for derailing the thread. Mod already told the thread to get back on topic.

 

[SeanR1221]

I'm not saying it's not useful. However, a simple "content warning" serves the exact same purpose without devaluing the meaning behind actual triggers.

You clearly don't understand human behavior

 

[Patryn]

No, I'm an egalitarian.

Did I say something offensive to you? Is it that inconvenient to point out sexism to you people? You could instead just think it over and stop supporting the use of a sexist insult.

You're taking a conversation about sexism towards women and twisting it to be about men.

Think about that for a second.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Because it seemed out of place in the seriousness of the tweet. It seemed to try to take something bad and try to gain out of it. Literally the next line could have been about a new video she made if she made videos regularly.

Key is though that she didn't. You are projecting this promotion onto her. At its basic level, she is posting the events that happen to her that prove the issues she tries to make everyone aware of. She didn't post a link to her site, or to her videos, or her Twitch channel or anything else. She just posted what happened but you're trying to attribute an insidiousness to it that doesn't really change the truth in anyway.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Yes, this situation is awful. However:

Does anyone actually expect the harassment to stop? The Internet excels at anonymity and there are always ways to hide one's tracks. It's just the latest example of the "Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory". As long as some people are evil, or act on their baser instincts regarding the opposite sex, things aren't going to change all that much. Unfortunately, I think we are a long way from evolving past this as a species, and unless the government clamps down on the Internet, which nobody really wants, this kind of thing is going to happen. Sad but true.

 

[njean777]

PSA: You know, using the word "manchildren" is incredibly sexist. The primary means of manipulating men, throughout history, is from outside forces claiming to be the ones who determine when someone is officially "a man." Whether it's encouraging people to join the military, whether it's a hunting ritual where you have to kill an animal, or any other form of masculine action or desired outcome, the effect is the same. It's denying the innate humanity of men, and claiming that if they don't act a way you don't approve of, they aren't "really" men.

How would it play out if we all tried to determine how women should act to "really" be considered women?

So if you actually care about issues like sexism and equality, manchildren is a pretty insulting term, rooted in the primary type of sexism leveled at men throughout history - and you should probably stop using it.

That is my problem with a lot of journalists, forum posters,and developers tweeting/writing about this stuff. Instead of acting like the people you do not like how about you approach this from another angle. Ridiculing them or flaming them is just going to stir the hornets nest even more and make them more angry.

 

[Mudron]

You're shameless.

That's what I find the hardest thing to deal with. A woman has been threatened to get raped to death, but oh no, Lactose Intolerant doesn't want to talk about that at all. No, Lactose Intolerant only wants to suggest that the victim here might be using this to her advantage.

Because it's important to make sure you criticize the woman who wants to make video games less aimed solely at boys, NO MATTER WHAT.

Look at your posts. Ask yourself if they are convincing. Ask if it's believable that they aren't being written by a bigot.

If you think so... then I guess that's one person who is falling for it.

This. The fact that so many people think that her criticizing videogames (justly or otherwise) is more fucked-up than the impossible-to-fake mountain of constant death/rape threats she's gotten.

It shows a fundamental lack of empathy and a pathological inability to see beyond's one's own self-interests.

 

[Frolow]

You clearly don't understand human behavior

Please enlighten me.

That's language for you bro. Eventually there'll will be a new word after it's arbitrarily decided that trigger warning is either too old-fashioned or not PC. Best not to worry about it.
EDIT: Anyway, back on topic...

That doesn't mean it's a good thing. Stuff like "Amazeballs" and 'YOLO" are officially considered words, but I doubt people would consider that a step forward in the evolution of language. Solely because a word has been perpetrated by Tumblr bloggers doesn't mean it should be considered a legitimate word now.

But yeah, this is getting OT so back to the topic.

 

[pants]

does anyone know what the threats were? doesnt seem to be in the article

 

[Like the hat?]

Absolutely gross.

Watched the most recent episode last night and man, some of the scenes she showed, ugh. How do people find that kind of thing entertaining?

 

[antigoon]

No, I'm an egalitarian.

Of course.

 

[LiK]

does anyone know what the threats were? doesnt seem to be in the article

She posted some screencaps in her twitter feed

 

[Toxi]

I'm not sure what's more revolting, the threats or the people speculating that Sarkeesian did this for attention.

 

[Krejlooc]

does anyone know what the threats were? doesnt seem to be in the article

Someone posted them in this topic. A lot of "I know where you live, you live at blah blah blah, also I know where your parents live, they live at bleh bleh bleh" then describing in detail how he was going to kill and rape both her and her parents.

Way fucked up shit.

 

[JBourne]

does anyone know what the threats were? doesnt seem to be in the article

Here.

 

[EdibleKnife]

does anyone know what the threats were? doesnt seem to be in the article

Just check this Tweet.
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/504718160902492160

Yea, Internet is a scary place.

.

 

[CambriaRising]

She posted some screencaps in her twitter feed

Yeah, it was some pretty hateful stuff.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

You're shameless.

That's what I find the hardest thing to deal with. A woman has been threatened to get raped to death, but oh no, Lactose Intolerant doesn't want to talk about that at all. No, Lactose Intolerant only wants to suggest that the victim here might be using this to her advantage.

Because it's important to make sure you criticize the woman who wants to make video games less aimed solely at boys, NO MATTER WHAT.

Look at your posts. Ask yourself if they are convincing. Ask if it's believable that they aren't being written by a bigot.

If you think so... then I guess that's one person who is falling for it.

More like this.

I know a lot of the time I don't have the energy or the means to take a stand against internet hostility when I see it. There's no use, I think. Or I'll get banned, I think. Or there's no changing them, I think. But for whatever size population of hateful monsters exist in the internet's darkest echo chambers there needs to be a population who is willing to fight against them.

More like this.

 

[Shinta]

Of course.

So ... you're implying that I'm lying? Based on what?

That's not a very fair thing to do. Everyone here has been criticizing Thunderfoot for assuming that Anita is lying, and I can agree with that criticism.

Unless you have some kind of argument, I'd appreciate it if you didn't imply that I'm a liar. Thanks.

 

[RMI]

I'm not sure what's more revolting, the threats or the people speculating that Sarkeesian did this for attention.

this shit right here.

People ought to be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

"The internet." Is just you.

It's people.

Stop inserting a level of remove that isn't there. The internet is simply the means by which people are talking to each other. It's not a sentient being. "The Internet" is just people talking.

Less focus on "the internet" and more focus on the people making shit worse for everybody.

 

[Damerman]

what are you trying to say

what he is trying to say is begging the question, because he is focused on one part of a person's response. Its like "i'm a german, but i don't hate jews and the nazi party ruined my national image." he/she is essentially criminalizing some one who is disclosing that they may share the similarities as the radicals.

 

[antigoon]

I will never cease to be amazed at the lengths some men will go to in order to make everything about them.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I'm against sexism against any gender. As I tried to explain to you, if we all sat around trying to determine how women should act to really be considered women, and not "women children," we'd all be banned.

Instead of just making fun of me for pointing out a completely legitimate instance of sexist slang, you should think about it for a while and consider not using it anymore. Thanks.

How about discussing the actual issue at hand instead of pivoting on a trivial use of manchildren?

"The internet." Is just you.

It's people.

Stop inserting a level of remove that isn't there. The internet is simply the means by which people are talking to each other. It's not a sentient being. "The Internet" is just people talking.

Less focus on "the internet" and more focus on the people making shit worse for everybody.

Again with the Semantics

Can we even carry a legitimate discussion or are we gonna keep derailing and pretending we dont have a common understanding of what people mean when referring to "the internet" in this context.

 

[Anton Sugar]

PSA: You know, using the word "manchildren" is incredibly sexist. The primary means of manipulating men, throughout history, is from outside forces claiming to be the ones who determine when someone is officially "a man." Whether it's encouraging people to join the military, whether it's a hunting ritual where you have to kill an animal, or any other form of masculine action or desired outcome, the effect is the same. It's denying the innate humanity of men, and claiming that if they don't act a way you don't approve of, they aren't "really" men.

How would it play out if we all tried to determine how women should act to "really" be considered women?

So if you actually care about issues like sexism and equality, manchildren is a pretty insulting term, rooted in the primary type of sexism leveled at men throughout history - and you should probably stop using it.

Manchild=an adult male who is acting with the maturity and comprehension of a child. How does "manchild" translate to devaluing men?

 

[Gestault]

that wasn't a dig, I'm saying if she made videos like every day/week like some people, I could have seen it be the next line.

I'm going to stop, I don't want to get banned for derailing the thread. Mod already told the thread to get back on topic.

I think it's very unlikely that more frequent content updates would have any influence on the sorts of harassment that she's facing. If anything, I'd imagine them becoming more concerted. These threats aren't part of normal, rational criticism of her work.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Yes, this situation is awful. However:

Does anyone actually expect the harassment to stop? The Internet excels at anonymity and there are always ways to hide one's tracks. It's just the latest example of the "Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory". As long as some people are evil, or act on their baser instincts regarding the opposite sex, things aren't going to change all that much. Unfortunately, I think we are a long way from evolving past this as a species, and unless the government clamps down on the Internet, which nobody really wants, this kind of thing is going to happen. Sad but true.

Whoever made those threats, he or she(because even with a name we can't assume because of anonymity, but most likely a man) has crossed a very real line for someone who's sociological work is in a field that is very new and the medium and industry is young.

 

[Sephzilla]

I'm just curious, did Anita make that screen grab of the tweets herself or was that provided to her by someone else?

 

[SliceSabre]

Disagreeing with her is fine. Sending death threat against her is not.

 

[sntstbn]

It's all the "gee isn't this CONVENIENT TIMING!" And similar Sarkeesian-blaming comments that make me sad for humanity. There's just something so depressing about people being so opposed to Sarkeesian that they need to find a way to make her at fault or some degree of guilty in her own harassment that is upsetting, because I'm sure these people think they're being totally reasonable, while the death threat assholes probably at least acknowledge their behavior is not OK.

I feel the same way.

It's natural to get defensive when someone criticizes you or the group you belong to. It's not mature to not take the time to process that criticism and analyze your feelings, and instead lash out at the person criticizing you.

Denying her even the right to express herself about the abuse she is suffering is an extremely abhorrent way of lashing out.

You should take some time to think about what you are doing.

 

[Neidii]

How a person can get so upset about someone voicing an opinion about a gaming related subject is beyond me, that person must be really mentally unstable. A normal person who would disagree with someone's opinion would just move on with his life. This is just disgusting behavior.

 

[Orayn]

Shinta, I think people might be more sympathetic to your point of view if you didn't derail the thread and act like a patronizing asshole.

Thanks.

 

[pants]

Here.

Yikes. Dude sounds like a vampire rapist.

 

[JBourne]

Manchild=an adult male who is acting with the maturity and comprehension of a child. How does "manchild" translate to devaluing men?

Because we don't call women "womanchild."

For real. That's it.

 

[Shinta]

How about discussing the actual issue at hand instead of pivoting on a trivial use of manchildren?

Not a whole lot to discuss really. Threats are pretty terrible. She did the right thing by calling the police and I hope they catch the people who did it.

Reading through the thread, I just thought I'd add my point to it as I have seen people using that term repeatedly.

So sorry that the thread is so delicate it couldn't handle one tangential point. I'll just leave then.

Shinta, I think people might be more sympathetic to your point of view if you didn't derail the thread and act like a patronizing asshole.

Thanks.

Wow. I'd insult you back, but I know I'm the only one who would get banned.

Nice, mature response there.

 

[gutterboy44]

But this is about people disliking her videos, and reacting in extreme ways because of it.

"I dislike her videos, but I'm a rational person" is an absolutely reasonable response.

It is reasonable to state and understand that basic concept of disliking a youtube video but not wishing bodily harm to someone, but I don't think that is the motive behind the posts with the qualifiers. Take the example of dead celebrity threads. "I don't think Robin Williams is funny but RIP". It is strange for the need to first establish a boundary between you and the subject matter, in this example and the ones I was referring to in this thread, by first taking them down a peg, only then to put forth a conciliatory sentiment immediately after. I does nothing to illuminate the absolute basic form of humanity that of course you can disagree with someone's opinion/work and not think they deserve rape threats or death. Do you see why it comes off as odd that some people are compelled to say that first? It is the very core of being a decent human being to understand such a simple fact. I feel it implies there are videos she could start releasing where a threshold can be reached where it becomes ok to start saying, "well her videos were really bad, so..." Imagine how absurd it would be to visit the Ferguson thread and have post after post starting with, "Well I don't like black culture, but it seems like this cops shooting unarmed teens thing has gone too far" I don't see any merit in expressing things in that format.

Given the nature of these threads in the past, and seeing the way a lot of people view women and Anita, even on GAF, I think it is being generous to assume the people who feel the need to qualify sentiment toward the deceased, abused or harassed are some how just reminding us of the basic human right that it is ok to disagree with someone and not want them dead. I remain of the opinion that I find it odd that people need to start off their posts with stating that.

 

[Orayn]

I'm just curious, did Anita make that screen grab of the tweets herself or was that provided to her by someone else?

If you believe /v/, she took it herself after logging out of her Twitter account because she made those tweets as a false flag operation.

It's a good thing no person of sound judgment would believe /v/.

 

[flyover]

I will never cease to be amazed at the lengths some men will go to in order to make everything about them.

Seriously. I don't know if the bigger problem is that these delicate men can't extend their empathy to others, or if it's that they think of women as "others" in the first place.

 

[TheHall]

I really like how in a thread about a woman having to leave her home due to real life threats (because of a video about games) people get most upset about semantics.

disclaimer: I don't like it at all, it's ridiculous.

 

[plagiarize]

So ... you're implying that I'm lying? Based on what?

That's not a very fair thing to do. Everyone here has been criticizing Thunderfoot for assuming that Anita is lying, and I can agree with that criticism.

Unless you have some kind of argument, I'd appreciate it if you didn't imply that I'm a liar. Thanks.

Full disclosure.

EVERY thread on neogaf about sexism aimed at women that I have posted in has had a whole bunch of men come forward to post 'but what about the sexism men face?' as if that question somehow means we shouldn't talk about the separate and real issue of the sexism women face.

No, we aren't allowed to just talk about women. We have to talk about men too. Or it seems, preferably, instead.

I gave the benefit of the doubt to people doing this for a while... but EVERY thread. Without fail. You'll see my first post I even mentioned this before you posted something along the same lines.

I can't pretend to read your mind to see if you genuinely think discussing the term manchild is equally important as the issue of a woman receiving specific death threats against herself and her family... but even if you do, that presents a serious issue.

The effect of your post is to shift the discussion away from a real problem even if that isn't your intent. Which is what a bigot would do.

So I'm going to presume you are a bigot. If you'd like my presumptions to change, stop doing what a bigot would do.

 

[SerRodrik]

I genuinely don't understand how people can see the type of insults and threats that someone like Sarkeesian gets (and the sheer volume of it) just for trying to express an opinion and still not perceive that there might be a greater problem that needs to be addressed. Like, how can you see those tweets that were sent to her and believe that all this sexism talk is just a bunch of nonsense? It's kind of baffling.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

So what happens now? Is there any form of action we take or is it just arguing the precise definition of the threats all this thread is good for?

I'll say it again. We should have been supporting the flawed but important idea from the start
But I guess thoughtful arguments only occur on GAF

 

[SkyOdin]

Yes, this situation is awful. However:

Does anyone actually expect the harassment to stop? The Internet excels at anonymity and there are always ways to hide one's tracks. It's just the latest example of the "Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory". As long as some people are evil, or act on their baser instincts regarding the opposite sex, things aren't going to change all that much. Unfortunately, I think we are a long way from evolving past this as a species, and unless the government clamps down on the Internet, which nobody really wants, this kind of thing is going to happen. Sad but true.

This is a cultural problem, a sociological problem, born from the kinds of behaviors that people on the internet have tacitly condoned for a couple decades now. Blaming "human nature" or "evil people" simply ignores the degree to which human behavior is shaped by social norms. We absolutely have the power to change these things, primarily by not condoning this behavior.

The internet is not some unchanging or monolithic thing, it is a society. And a society is ruled by social norms. If there is a problem, you can ultimately blame it on the rest of that society. So if you blame "the internet", you must also recognize that all of us are part of the society that comprises the internet, and in turn recognize that all of us shoulder some of that blame.

 

[Toxi]

The worst part about this is that it won't stop. People already know where she lives. Jesus Christ, I can't imagine how paranoid I would be in her shoes.

 

[Crocodile]

This is depressing

"I don't like what you're saying so I'm going to threaten you!"

This thought process is completely alien to me and I can't logically figure out its cause. Why is this a thing that happens

I hope it works out well in the end

 

[antigoon]

So ... you're implying that I'm lying? Based on what?

That's not a very fair thing to do. Everyone here has been criticizing Thunderfoot for assuming that Anita is lying, and I can agree with that criticism.

Unless you have some kind of argument, I'd appreciate it if you didn't imply that I'm a liar. Thanks.

I'm not implying that you're a liar.

I just see "I'm egalitarian!" far too often as a coverup for views that simply perpetuate the status quo and/or equivocate prejudice or discrimination toward majority groups with actual sexism/racism/homophobia.

 

[pixlexic]

Why do people feel like they need to take action or be heard .. instead of just ignoring someone?

It's like another level of ignorance to make death threats to someone on the Internet that you disagree with who is speaking against the ignorance you already have that is making you so mad! Lol.

It's like ignorance inception.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

Oh come on, I don't agree with some of his videos but sending that kind of threats is fucking BS.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Not a whole lot to discuss really. Threats are pretty terrible. She did the right thing by calling the police and I hope they catch the people who did it.

Reading through the thread, I just thought I'd add my point to it as I have seen people using that term repeatedly.

So sorry that the thread is so delicate it couldn't handle one tangential point. I'll just leave then.



Wow. I'd insult you back, but I know I'm the only one who would get banned.

Nice, mature response there.

Well too that end

I thought of something else. Is local enforcement enough?

What if this is some punk in some random part of the world that just happened to get all this info from the internet (or some other local person that knows her)

I think the scariest part is that enforcement can only go so far.

 

[KojiKnight]

I really like how in a thread about a woman having to leave her home due to real life threats (because of a video about games) people get most upset about semantics.

disclaimer: I don't like it at all, it's ridiculous.

These threads are never about her... They are about 2 sides of the feminism debate airing their dirty laundry at each other.