Twilight Princess
Member
good talk with good boy
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Trump and Putin had 'good' talk about ending Syria war, White House says
- Thread starter AcademicSaucer
- Start date
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
What if I told you that regardless of what we might call our actions,
This:
Produces the same results as this:
In terms of international destabilization.
In some cases, we're worse. Which country wins the "most governments overthrown in the last 20 years" award? Or the "most foreign civilians killed" award?
Our foreign policy isn't very democratic. Trump bombed Syria on a whim, without even consulting our representatives in congress.
But historically, internal government structure hasn't had a huge impact on foreign policy. There's some evidence to suggest democracies are slightly less bellicose, but the brutality of the US empire shows aggression the flag of liberal democracy can be just as destructive as aggression under a totalitarian flag.
Our policy has installed and supported innumerable dictators, empowered reactionaries across the world, destroyed dozens of legitimate democratic governments, and wrought great horrors upon a good portion of the world's countries.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
You can enforce "safe zones" without shooting at Russian soldiers. Especially if the safe zone project is a join USA-Russia operation to begin with. And it's definitely a lot different than droning and bombing the shit out of the entire country.
The military industrial complex makes too much profit from war and conflict. Find a way to make peace profitable, and then I'll have more confidence that it'll be different.
Lord Frieza
Member
Oh, so the US is worst than Putin lead Russia. Well, this is one way to go
200,000 children starving to death in Yemen must be very grateful that their country is being bombed and blockaded by a liberal democracy.
"Would it be so bad for us to get along with Russia?"
*another hospital full of refugees is blown to pieces*
"A possible cease fire in the works."
*50 tomahawk missiles are shot to bolster approval ratings*
Fuck these guys.
Lord Frieza
Member
You know, I am tempted to take this up, but if this what you guys believe, there's probably no real convincing you otherwise. Putin might be a good guy underneath it all, let's hope, I guess.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
That's a very general characterization of my very specific criticism. Not a good exercise in accurate paraphrasing.
Lord Frieza
Member
Sorry, you have to remember, you're way above my simple blind partisanship blinded mind.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Again, responding to my specific point, with an unrelated and irrelevant self-inflicted insult. Don't do that. I'm trying to help here.
Journeywalker
Member
Our policy has installed and supported innumerable dictators, empowered reactionaries across the world, destroyed dozens of legitimate democratic governments, and wrought great horrors upon a good portion of the world's countries.
Wait, when did we try to assassinate the leader of France?
Gnome Scat
Member
Not happening, all that's going to happen is that we leave Assad alone so long as he gives up the use of chemical weapons. Trump will most likely want to distance himself from getting involved too deeply with the conflict and turn the responsibility over to Putin as well as seeking inoffensive policies towards Russia's interest in Syria.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
There is not enough evidence to know for sure.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/16/general-de-gaulle-cia-assassination-plot-1975
Version 3.0
Member
Trump and Putin. Yes, certainly from among all the world leaders of the past half century, these are the two who will come up with a viable plan for stabilizing the Middle East.
TestOfTide
Banned
Then you would be flat out wrong considering that the western world has been very stable for decades thanks to thing like NATO and the Marshall Plan.
Democracy doesn't literally mean that every foreign policy action has to be taken up to a vote.
And when that foreign policy appears to have fucked up publicly, it tends to lead to backlash in elections. Look at reaction to LBJ for Vietnam and reaction to Bush for the Iraq war.
My point is that with a democracy as the world's superpower, there is at least SOME accountability from that super power's voters. Meanwhile there is no such accountability for Russia or China.
Our policy has installed and supported innumerable dictators, empowered reactionaries across the world, destroyed dozens of legitimate democratic governments, and wrought great horrors upon a good portion of the world's countries.
And when did I say that the US's FP history was perfect? But you are kidding yourself if you think that it wouldn't be even worse with Russia or China taking the US's role.
Except that if it involves Russia, then it's guaranteed to be useless safe zones that don't include places like Aleppo where Assad and the Russians are bombing civilians.
That doesn't answer my question. Why can't a Marshall Plan work in the Middle East?
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I'm talking about recently. The world isn't the same as it was back then. You can't look at that and ignore the conflict and destabilization we've spread around the world since then.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The military industrial complex makes too much profit from war and conflict. Find a way to make peace profitable, and then I'll have more confidence that it'll be different.
TestOfTide
Banned
And you know what we haven't had in a while? A Marshall Plan to help nations rebuild.
But overall, the west has been really fucking stable compared to the early twentieth century.
Peace is easily profitable. It's called free trade. Oh wait you guys hate free trade deals like NAFTA and TPP.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Becaaauuuuseee:
The military industrial complex makes too much profit from war and conflict. Find a way to make peace profitable, and then I'll have more confidence that it'll be different.
"You guys"? lol.
Nobody in this thread is pro-Putin. It's possible to hate both Putin and Trump at the same time!
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
As a side note to this comment, you should look up how many governments we've overthrown because the former ones were not hospitable enough to our corporate interests in trade.
Journeywalker
Member
Well, there's no option that involves the United States shrinking its sphere of influence without China or Russia expanding their sphere of influence. Putin would never honor a "deal" that doesn't involve Syria becoming a Russian puppet state.