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[MisterR]

This is good. There is more going on here then "muh guns". Leftists won't understand in general as they are either not conscious enough of reality (they eat everything CNN tells them happily) or don't posses the intelligence needed to understand deeper concpets and longer laid out plans.

This is beyond dumb. Teachers aren't soldiers and they likely have no desire to be soldiers. It's funny that the right wants to defund their pension, constantly attack them, but also want them to serve a second job as security, I'm sure for no additional pay. The last thing schools need is a shootout between the gym teacher and someone with an AR15. Your idiotic post trying to express superiority over people who have way more sense than you is also an embarrassment.

 

[koosa]

2nd amendment is the worst right in the history of mankind

 

[MisterR]

It makes people who want to shoot at a school less wary because there could be armed people around for one. What I think he is saying is that this would be a part of the plan along with many other things (per example bump stock ban, raise the legal age, better background checks, better mental health screening) just to name a few.

Most people who go to shoot up a school are suicidal anyway and end up killing themselves afterwards. What makes you think teachers want to be armed guards and the type who do are probably not the types we want having guns most likely.

 

[The Awesomest]

Has no one considered the possibility of an increase in teacher suicides if given access to guns?

 

[TrainedRage]

As someone who works in a high school, I can support the concealed carry. Especially if it includes benifits or an increase pay like Trump suggested. Also taking down those "guns are banned in this school" signs would be a good start. At this point I'm willing to try most things.

 

[mrkgoo]

Hahaha that tweet is pretty much this. I can already hear this joke on the Late Night shows.

I was ready to concede that maybe earlier comments were just Wild and wacky ideas admitting gotta do something, let's propose anything and everything and cull back the dumb ideas.

With the latest tweets....uh .... seems like he was serious.

 

[pj]

Completely ignoring the vast difference in population concentration in Australia.

Australia, 3.4 people per sqkm America? 33...

Maybe I'm a stupid liberal but this seems like a completely ridiculous point. Average population density in Australia is totally meaningless since there's thousands of miles of nothingness between the coasts.

"Australia has an average population density of 3.2 persons per square kilometre of total land area. With 89.01% of its population living in urban areas, Australia is one of the world's most urbanised countries."

 

[mrkgoo]

what is needed is a cop or private security which are armed with guns guarding the schools. Even if you tighten regulation on guns, people will just buy it in the black market.

Ever understood this mentality. Tightening restrictions will put a barrier to entry for some. Not all, sure, but definitely some. Would it be enough to deter the super determined? No, probably not, but you gotta start somewhere.

 

[lil puff]

Has no one considered the possibility of an increase in teacher suicides if given access to guns?

I am not sure there is even a precedent. To some degree, I cannot help but to think those who support this kind of measure are being intellectually dishonest. I am trying to be fair and see both sides, but I can't. What would the vetting process be to determine which teachers get the technical and psychological training for this?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

This sounds like a wonderful plan to sell a whole lot of guns!

Honestly. I’m very liberal. I work in public schools.

My first vote is for gun control reform. My second vote is for increased police presence. Where I work each school has one SRO. Maybe each school needs an SRO for every parking lot and every entrance. I dunno. I would happily support funding for this positions though.

Arming the school staff isn’t ideal in my opinion but if my only two options are that or nothing changes, I guess I will take the guns. I just hope the training is extensive. I could see numerous incidents of wrong person getting shot. Say a kid is in the bathroom when a shooting starts. He runs and busts into the closest classroom for shelters. Teacher panics and thinks the student is the shooter. Boom dead.

I dunno. Seems scary

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Also, maybe every single school entrance needs to be redesigned to make it more difficulf
to just simply enter and some sort of “panic buttton” installed to lockdown the doors at first sign of any suspiciousness whatsoever.

That won’t stop anyone indefinitely but it could buy some time to initiate lockdown procedure.

 

[gohepcat]

Gun control on an island continent that is of similar size to the entirety of the US while having a population size of 24 million vs the 320(?) million the US has. Compelling case.
Also, there is no way a gun buyback program like in Australia would get any sort of traction in America, and rightfully so.

Do people truly not understand the concept of per capita? 24 million people is a gigantic sample size.

 

[jufonuk]

make bullets illegal

 

[I_D]

Even if you tighten regulation on guns, people will just buy it in the black market.

This is mostly untrue.
Sure, there would be some people out there who can still illegally buy guns; mostly gang members and high-income drug dealers.

For the average person, though, the cost of buying a black market weapon, much less finding a person who has access to them, would eliminate essentially any chance of ever getting their hands on a firearm.

Admittedly, so many people in the US own guns that the black market would thrive for quite a few years. We probably wouldn't see any significant change in gun-crime for a substantial amount of time. Once the gun-owners stopped selling their weapons, weapons were confiscated over time, guns wore down, etc., though, the issue would be all but eliminated. And yes, I realize that could take a very long time. It would still be a viable long-term solution, though.

 

[mckmas8808]

"Shameless" nailed it:

Is this a TV show or movie?

 

[mckmas8808]

I am not sure there is even a precedent. To some degree, I cannot help but to think those who support this kind of measure are being intellectually dishonest. I am trying to be fair and see both sides, but I can't. What would the vetting process be to determine which teachers get the technical and psychological training for this?

The BOLDED is the part that most people will forget about. Even if you pass a technical shooting range test, are you psychologically trained and ready to deal with something like this? Or will you be willing to pull the "9" out and point it at a student if they are cursing you out in class?

 

[Gray Rentable]

ok. this is a dumb solution, Donald. More guns will not help.

I love that no one is dogpiling pro-trump posts. Discuss, discuss, discuss.

 

[SirNinja]

This is good. There is more going on here then "muh guns". Leftists won't understand in general as they are either not conscious enough of reality (they eat everything CNN tells them happily) or don't posses the intelligence needed to understand deeper concpets and longer laid out plans.

This is either sarcasm or the most egregious case of projection I've seen in a while. Especially the parenthetical.

 

[VAL0R]

I think arming a subset of teachers who voluntarily agree to become "guardians" of the students is brilliant. Of course they should have to pass strict background and training tests to qualify. I say give them a yearly bonus for the added responsibility and effort and the value/safety they'd bring to the table. Of course there would have to be protocol and standards on weapon types, ammo types, trigger locks, etc. I think in order to qualify for monetary compensation they should have to sign an oath saying that in the event of an active shooter situation they will respond with their weapon.

A neighbor of mine is both a teacher and a gun enthusiast and I would certainly feel more safe knowing that he was armed and present at a school where one of my children went. An ex-Marine and weapon's instructor attends mass at my Catholic church every Sunday with a loaded pistol ready to defend the church. Not everyone knows, but I do and the priest does. I'm glad he's there when I bring my family.

 

[jonnyp]

Hehe you cannot make this stuff up...

 

[Durask]

The evidence is already there , you keep talking about this 1/4 drop show me the stats. But a 1/4 drop in deaths is fucking amazing in any circumstance. I dont have time to sit here and educate you about all the wonderful benefits of gun control and banning assault weapons, but what i can do is throw every stats and peer review that has examined the drop in deaths in Australia because of the buyback and reform. So heres anice little study done by Harvard University that looks just into this.



This might sound hard to hear but gun control works amazingly well, as it has in Australia, arming teachers to fight of potential murderers has no place in modern society.

There are other studies which showed that there is not enough data to make conclusions.
Neighboring NZ despite having more relaxed gun laws experienced a similar drop in homicides

For example

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2530362

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-deaths-mass-shootings/

Also, this.

http://thegoldengist.blogspot.com/2016/09/young-dumb-and-armed-how-melbourne.html

So no, no evidence that it works "amazingly well". A correct answer would be "ehh maybe sorta".

 

[LordPezix]

Lets get those numbers up! In the U.S. alone there were 346 mass shootings in 2017, or about one per day.

Fuck it, lets arm teachers! So lets say, a teacher did manage stop an active shooter from killing 20 kids but rather got to him only after they shot 9 kids. Cool we have less dead, lives saved, awesome!

Doesn't solve the issue of them getting the weapon.

Arm every fucking person in the country, an unstable person, IS STILL GOING TO KILL PEOPLE.

 

[SatansReverence]

I haven’t seen such an out of your ass pulling fact since i ran across a tapeworm video. Since the goalposts have moved to five different stadiums in the thread do we have to start putting up densely populated cities with low murder rates now?

So, uh, how badly do you want to lose this argument?

Ignoring the district of columbia because, you know using the most densely populated district that also has the most murders per 100,000.

The top 10 states for population density vs the bottom 10, there is an 18% difference in murders per 100,000. Guess which end has less?

But hey, you got your spicy gif in didn't you!

In theory less homicides - simply because killing with knives is not that effective. And planting bombs is also not that easy.
Suicides ... well it may vary - might increase and might decrease. After all those who wanted to die by being shot due to their shooting are more likely to consider simpler suicide. And at the same time suicide by gun is also simpler.
But in theory. The polarized USA society might not handle it quite well.

See, not that hard.

What evidence shows in Australia is that once guns were heavily restricted, the overall suicide and homicide rates remained the same. So really, what positive was gained?

But, BraveOne I'm still waiting for you to explain away basic maths

1,000 people are killed a year due to homicides and suicides.

100 of those are homicides due to firearms.

200 of them are suicide by firearm.

Now, ban firearms. What is the expected result in the overall deaths?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Let's give some weapons to children too and we can do the battle royale at schools

 

[BraveOne]

What a fucking joke, should shut up anyone that is asking for more guns in schools

 

[BraveOne]

So, uh, how badly do you want to lose this argument?

Ignoring the district of columbia because, you know using the most densely populated district that also has the most murders per 100,000.

The top 10 states for population density vs the bottom 10, there is an 18% difference in murders per 100,000. Guess which end has less?

But hey, you got your spicy gif in didn't you!



See, not that hard.

What evidence shows in Australia is that once guns were heavily restricted, the overall suicide and homicide rates remained the same. So really, what positive was gained?

But, BraveOne I'm still waiting for you to explain away basic maths

1,000 people are killed a year due to homicides and suicides.

100 of those are homicides due to firearms.

200 of them are suicide by firearm.

Now, ban firearms. What is the expected result in the overall deaths?

Overall deaths from firearms will drop , that’s common sense. Have you not seen the gun related deaths drop from 1996 to 1998 it’s almost a vertical slope. You must be blind or are being extremely disingenuous if you think guns are not the issue. You do you I’m done talking to someone that has not bothered to conduct basic research and is unable to do any level of critical thinking.

 

[Halo0629]

How about hiring more competent security guards for schools?

 

[SatansReverence]

Overall deaths from firearms will drop , that’s common sense. Have you not seen the gun related deaths drop from 1996 to 1998 it’s almost a vertical slope. You must be blind or are being extremely disingenuous if you think guns are not the issue. You do you I’m done talking to someone that has not bothered to conduct basic research and is unable to do any level of critical thinking.

1,000 people are killed a year due to homicides and suicides.

100 of those are homicides due to firearms.

200 of them are suicide by firearm.

Now, ban firearms. What is the expected result in the overall deaths?

Still waiting.

And it's laughably ironic that you say I'm not conducting "basic research".

 

[BraveOne]

1,000 people are killed a year due to homicides and suicides.

100 of those are homicides due to firearms.

200 of them are suicide by firearm.

Now, ban firearms. What is the expected result in the overall deaths?

Still waiting.

And it's laughably ironic that you say I'm not conducting "basic research".

oh god

 

[SatansReverence]

oh god

The irony.

It's been fun but at the end of the day, you've lost. Soundly.

 

[BraveOne]

.

The irony.

It's been fun but at the end of the day, you've lost. Soundly.

This chart ended the discussion a while ago, a chart you wilfully chose to ignore , but i let you off and let you go on your offtopic tangent. But ill help you understand it since every visual stat i've posted you don't seem to understand. Total gun deaths sits at 515 in 1996 but drops to 312 by 1998, thats an 39% decrease in gun deaths. Its the steepest change in the whole chart. So lets examine and clear up some common questions.

Where gun deaths in decline?

Yes , Gun deaths where in decline , but note that the difference in change was not much and it spiked multiple times. In the years before 1996. In 1993 deaths where at 513 and by 1995 at 470, that's an 8% decrease.

What did gun reform do, well as you can clearly see from the early 2000's firearms deaths have stagnated in the low 200's . Now what do you think contributed to that drop between 1996 and 1998? You purposely dodged the question yesterday but i let that slip, but you now have the gull to consistently ask me a question that not even you can answer, i can only commentate from what has happened by looking at patterns from the past, and those patterns show after gun reform deaths dropped significantly, more then the average drop since 1986. If anything learn how to interpret charts and figures around issues. We are talking about guns and guns only.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

.


This chart ended the discussion a while ago, a chart you wilfully chose to ignore , but i let you off and let you go on your offtopic tangent. But ill help you understand it since every visual stat i've posted you don't seem to understand. Total gun deaths sits at 515 in 1996 but drops to 312 by 1998, thats an 39% decrease in gun deaths. Its the steepest change in the whole chart. So lets examine and clear up some common questions.

Where gun deaths in decline?

Yes , Gun deaths where in decline , but note that the difference in change was not much and it spiked multiple times. In the years before 1996. In 1993 deaths where at 513 and by 1995 at 470, that's an 8% decrease.

What did gun reform do, well as you can clearly see from the early 2000's firearms deaths have stagnated in the low 200's . Now what do you think contributed to that drop between 1996 and 1998? You purposely dodged the question yesterday but i let that slip, but you now have the gull to consistently ask me a question that not even you can answer, i can only commentate from what has happened by looking at patterns from the past, and those patterns show after gun reform deaths dropped significantly, more then the average drop since 1986. If anything learn how to interpret charts and figures around issues. We are talking about guns and guns only.

The question is whether the overall number of deaths decreased or not due to that. Were the "gun deaths" offset to the different kind of death?
I mean if we ban knives, the total number of knife deaths will decrease too. If we ban cars, the total number of car deaths will also decrease.

 

[SatansReverence]

BraveOne I've already addressed that chart (before you brought it up the first time I'm pretty sure). The reduction was about 1/4 after some basic smoothing to account for spikes and was following a downward trend.

You still refuse to address the point that homicides and suicides on the whole were unaffected.

 

[brap]

I don't know why anybody thinks this is a good idea (no specifically talking about people in this thread). When I was in 7th grade my english teacher would scream and yell at us sometimes when we got questions wrong. Not a doubt in my mind he would pull a gun out on us if he had one. If teachers are allowed guns there will definitely be at least one class shot up.

 

[BraveOne]

BraveOne I've already addressed that chart (before you brought it up the first time I'm pretty sure). The reduction was about 1/4 after some basic smoothing to account for spikes and was following a downward trend.

You still refuse to address the point that homicides and suicides on the whole were unaffected.

515 in 1996 to 211 in 2015 is a 1/4 reduction ?

Its 59% drop in firearm deaths. That's 3/5.

My argument was never about overall deaths and suicides, it was about a reduction in mass shootings , You decided to interject your own argument into mine. Hence why i posted a full list of mass shootings pre and post?

 

[SatansReverence]

515 in 1996 to 211 in 2015 is a 1/4 reduction ?

Its 59% drop in firearm deaths. That's 3/5.

You don't understand statistics. You cannot attribute the already existing downward trend with the firearms "ban". I'm already giving you a 1/4 drop due to the "ban" on this which, to be frank, is generous.

And you are still refusing to address the fact the overall suicides and homicides were unaffected by the "ban".

 

[BraveOne]

You don't understand statistics. You cannot attribute the already existing downward trend with the firearms "ban".

And you are still refusing to address the fact the overall suicides and homicides were unaffected by the "ban".

What attributed to the 39% drop from 1996 to 1998, the steepest drop since 1986 ?

Answer my original question that i posed to you yesterday. Look at the chart and understand it then answer. Infact take it further and show me that statistic for your 1/4 reduction

 

[SatansReverence]

What attributed to the 39% drop from 1996 to 1998, the steepest drop since 1986 ?

Answer my original question that i posed to you yesterday. Look at the chart and understand it then answer.

Check my edit.

And I addressed it in reply #99 which was before you brought it up mind you.

How many times do I have to point out that you cannot use an over time graph without reducing the noise? You cannot just say "well it was 516 in 1996 then 312 in 1998! Look, reduction!"

What you are doing, is looking at a bitcoin value over time graph but only looking at it's value over 5 minutes and trying to establish an accurate trend over months.

 

[DonJimbo]

Trumps is a genius
Everything he says is true

 

[SatansReverence]

Trumps is a genius
Everything he says is true

Disagreed *shrug*

 

[KevinKeene]

Has no one considered the possibility of an increase in teacher suicides if given access to guns?

They're adults. Nobody gives a fuck about adults. Once you stop being a child, you don't matter.

(Sorry, that's probably a whole different discussion. But I hate how adults (aka older children) are treated so much less valuable than children)

 

[highrider]

I haven’t seen such an out of your ass pulling fact since i ran across a tapeworm video. Since the goalposts have moved to five different stadiums in the thread do we have to start putting up densely populated cities with low murder rates now?

That’s kind of his thing though. And he’s got some free time

 

[Chairman Tickles]

On the one hand he wants to raise minimum gun ownership age to 21, and increase background checks, on the other hand, arm select commando teachers.

The balancing act is real. American politics is so polarized, it is now a constant source of entertainment, even during national tragedies such as this latest school shooting. (my condolences to the poor kids and families)

 

[camelCase]

What’s the slogan? An apple on every desk, a cap in every ass! Has a ring to it.

Family guy season 1-3?

 

[lil puff]

I don't know why anybody thinks this is a good idea (no specifically talking about people in this thread). When I was in 7th grade my english teacher would scream and yell at us sometimes when we got questions wrong. Not a doubt in my mind he would pull a gun out on us if he had one. If teachers are allowed guns there will definitely be at least one class shot up.

LOL

I had a few teachers that I would NOT trust with a gun. I went to a rough high school, some of the students were like adults themselves, they would seriously challenge the teachers - we had some teacher/student fist fights, teachers stealing students GFs, all kinds of mess.

Knowing Mr Jones has a gun would definitely change the dynamics of the classroom. Mr Jones says do something and gives you that side eye towards the gun cabinet.

 

[rokkerkory]

Glad Rick Scott disagrees: https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/us/florida-governor-reforms/index.html

His 3 part plan is a decent start.

Part 1: Keep guns away from dangerous people
Part 2: Keeping students safe
Part 3: Expand mental health initiatives

 

[mckmas8808]

Did some post get deleted from this thread just now?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Does this mean that in the future we'll see students shot for pulling up their pants? Hey he could have been going for a gun, teaching is a dangerous profession and they just want to make it home alive.

 

[blu]

Fight fire with fire, like a true firefighter!.. Oh, wait.

I'm sure somebody in this thread has expressed support for this idiocy by now.. *checks* yep!

 

[Fbh]

What a fucking joke, should shut up anyone that is asking for more guns in schools

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people asking for more guns have never fired one in a life or death situation and love to fantasise about some holywood-like scenario where they quickly kill the attacker and save the day