More here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-sale-human-rights-yemen-latest-a7721106.html
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Trump trying to push through multi-billion dollar arms sale to Saudi Arabia
- Thread starter Oersted
- Start date
More here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-sale-human-rights-yemen-latest-a7721106.html
Lock if old
To be unfair, whataboutism is a horrible non-argument in the face of human rights abuses.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
We shouldn't, though.
What a great salesman.
Although, hasn't the KSA been considering / undertaking loads of weird IPOs? If so maybe that speaks to the oil price crash hitting them (or they're finally looking for more diversification).
Edit: If they can conduct further endeavours like their Yemen thing... Fuck.
Although, hasn't the KSA been considering / undertaking loads of weird IPOs? If so maybe that speaks to the oil price crash hitting them (or they're finally looking for more diversification).
Edit: If they can conduct further endeavours like their Yemen thing... Fuck.
UnemployedVillain
Member
So? What was your point with this? If everyone is doing something bad, we should as well??
Nobody except politicians likes SA but nobody's successful at making their politicians not sell weapons to them.
Host Samurai
Member
Something something emails something
Psychoward
Banned
Well yeah but one we shouldn't and two, Trump and his voters shit on Hillary for SA all the time, even though she was just taking money from them.
hydrophilic attack
Member
i mean, i don't think they would be interested in buying his hands
Prototype Viktor
Member
Those are countries we should follow the lead of? We shouldn't even follow our own lead at times
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yep yet another reversal of Obama policy that was only bad for those who loves money and hate brown people
gutter_trash
Banned
Saudi Arabia is the worst opressive regime on planet Earth after North Korea
but eh, they gots oilz so lets be friends with Saudi Arabia but not with North Korea.
Western powers should no longer be friends with these oppressive regimes;
but eh, they gots oilz so lets be friends with Saudi Arabia but not with North Korea.
Western powers should no longer be friends with these oppressive regimes;
hobblygobbly
Member
Western powers sell arms to the Saudis in full knowledge of the war crimes they commit, such as right now in Yemen.
Yet they get outraged when other non-western countries do the same, like Russian jets flying in Syria.
Whether a Russian jet bombs a civilian in Syria, or military equipment that funds the Saudi war machine by western powers in exchange for money (in various forms) while in full knowledge what they are using it for in the region is absolutely no different from a moral perspective.
Saudis are also blockading Yemen stopping humanitarian aide and causing famine but no single western power gives a single fuck about it.
The world doesn't give a fuck about human rights, human rights are geo/political cards to be played when appropriate.
Yet they get outraged when other non-western countries do the same, like Russian jets flying in Syria.
Whether a Russian jet bombs a civilian in Syria, or military equipment that funds the Saudi war machine by western powers in exchange for money (in various forms) while in full knowledge what they are using it for in the region is absolutely no different from a moral perspective.
Saudis are also blockading Yemen stopping humanitarian aide and causing famine but no single western power gives a single fuck about it.
The world doesn't give a fuck about human rights, human rights are geo/political cards to be played when appropriate.
Spoiled Milk
Banned
Ok, here's an even better argument. Saudi Arabia is a critical ally in the middle east and is less bad than the other nation attempting hegemony there. So if they ask for big guns, they'll get them.
But his EMALS.
radios shipping overview
Member
More propping up the Saudis in their cold war with Iran.
We're perfectly happy to support theocratic autocracies that support terrorism as long as they are also enemies of our enemies.
We're perfectly happy to support theocratic autocracies that support terrorism as long as they are also enemies of our enemies.
That is not an argument. It is a factual statement without source. Provide a source and than make an argument why you should do such a deal with them.
Narpas Sword0
Member
No she wasn't
andythinkpad
Member
Sure, why not. They will be used for sectarian conflicts anyway.
Yup. How dare Russia arm Syria and clamp down on Rebels, lemme just turn the blind eye as US made F-15's and European Eurofighter Typhoons rain down bombs on Yemeni civilians and Houthi rebels...
I am honestly laughing when I think of Trump voters and how Donald conned them all. They'll still go to sleep dreaming of their wall to keep out Mexicans while more Goldman Sachs execs are given jobs, $100 million is wasted attacking a Syrian runway, and Trump gets more and more involved with the US military industrial complex. China goes from being labelled a currency manipulator to the great and respected Xi Jinping who will work out a terrific deal. Plus the anti-jewish white nationalists also helped elect the most pro-Jewish and pro-Israeli administration in decades.
The US ultimately doesn't care about the middle east. They have armed their two best allies in the region SA and Israel with more weaponry than many other nations combined. They don't care what their allies do. They only care what their enemies do.
CyclopsRock
Member
It's doesn't affect the morality of the situation but since the headline writer went out if their way to mention the value, it's worth noting that a billion dollars is basically nothing is military acquisition terms.
Its not a billion dollars, its a over 10 billion dollars. But thanks.
ClosingADoor
Member
Approved before Trump though.
CyclopsRock
Member
Only a billion of it is Trump's. The rest is Obama's.
TheRealTalker
Banned
Saudi Arabia is also investing 40 Billion into US infrastructure: http://thehill.com/policy/internati...333017-saudi-arabia-plans-to-invest-40b-in-us
Add to the Saudi SoftBank 100 Billion into us tech companies and start ups and also Saudis now owning the US/NA's largest refinery:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/01/inv...s-largest-oil-refinery-port-arthur/index.html
makes the US and Saudi basically engraved with on another...
Also this deal was in the works before Trump was in office, rather now it is being finalized.
regardless of whataboutism
arms deals with the Saudis have occurred with Obama
sure he "limited" some but still basically sold $115 billion worth of arms to the Saudis
Including the F-15SA
Rather with trump the advanced missile ban will be lifted due to the new cold war with Iran.
They already sold THAAD too UAE as well.
Add to the Saudi SoftBank 100 Billion into us tech companies and start ups and also Saudis now owning the US/NA's largest refinery:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/01/inv...s-largest-oil-refinery-port-arthur/index.html
makes the US and Saudi basically engraved with on another...
Also this deal was in the works before Trump was in office, rather now it is being finalized.
regardless of whataboutism
arms deals with the Saudis have occurred with Obama
sure he "limited" some but still basically sold $115 billion worth of arms to the Saudis
Including the F-15SA
Rather with trump the advanced missile ban will be lifted due to the new cold war with Iran.
They already sold THAAD too UAE as well.
capitalCORN
Member
"The war economy".
Yes, it was put on hold due to the crimes against humanity
Graveyards are such a stability factor
Less about a war economy and more about having this region being self reliant. S.A. leads the region and has the support of many other smaller Gulf states - why keep the decades long strategy of paying for others to defend the ME when we can find a solution that allows this region to police itself.
capitalCORN
Member
They're all extremist assholes. They don't need the West's help killing each other. But this push for arms WILL directly affect the Yemeni conflict, along with whatever Syria fuckery. Not exactly a good show.
TheLaughingStock
Member
It's almost all Trump's fault along with Hillary's emails.
ErasureAcer
Banned
MSAGA
Hey fuck off with your racist bullshit. S.A. is involved in Yemen due to actual extremists who try to enter via their border. They've had multiple incidents, and many threats to their safety.
A few years ago we had a terrorist attack in Kuwait that tried to create a rift between the Shia and Sunni population. Do you know what happened afterwards? Complete cooperation and stronger integration of both sects. We had Shia praying with Sunni and Sunni praying with Shia. The people acknowledged this act was part of the terrorists plan to create fear and hatred - it did the complete opposite. So fuck off with calling everyone an extremist asshole.
capitalCORN
Member
If I offended you, I apologize. I am aware of the blind eye of the West. I'm talking about the powers that be, Not the general populations. No government's a fucking angel, and there's been bad blood that's been fermenting for a long time. The chaos of the Arab Spring aftermath sure as hell didn't help stability. I'm saying the West has done enough. As a born South American I know what American meddling can entail.
TheRealTalker
Banned
I told you some things like the missile defense system, etc.. was put on hold...
While F-15SA, helis, ammo, etc... was not
This current package is the missile defense system (which was on hold) and Navy equipment and ships.
I believe you are confusing this with the types of munition freeze that the Obama admin did.
The war in Yemen is Houthis and former president Saleh vs Hadi goverment and Arab coalition
What came out of it though is the revival of the South Yemen state and a possible road map to independence, accidentally.
Of course this is a over simplification but we might likely see a North and South Yemen again.
I'll absolutely agree that western involvement is not needed. That's why I view this as a good thing. Let the region take care of its own issues. S.A. is scene in the same light by Gulf States as the U.S. is by other western countries. They are the only real country in this region with a strong military force. Countries like Kuwait have pitiful military power, as such, when you talk about removing or altering the landscape of S.A. you're talking about altering the landscape/situation of pretty much every other Gulf state in the region. This would be a crisis of incredible magnitude.
Also no worries, there's are some users here with actual extreme views about this region that piss me off as they lack any actual knowledge of the complexities of life here.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
As.long as there are homeless vets or homelessness in general in the U.S., this is theft. There's no stopping the military industrial complex.
IdreamofHIME
Member
What's the problem here? That Saudi Arabia shouldn't be doing business with such a corrupt regime that's gleefully destroying the human rights of minorities?
TheRealTalker
Banned
Wait I am confused
How is selling anything considered theft?
They are gaining money not losing it... this isn't aid to Saudi Arabia, rather the Saudis buy US equipment at a premium. (some times more then 3X the original price.)