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[CJY]

Today (23rd of June, 2017) on the Tokyo Stock Exchange, Nintendo has now hit a Market Cap of ¥5.45T(~$49B), compared to Sony Corp with a market cap of ¥5.40T(~$48.5B)



Some Trivia:

- Earlier in June when Nintendo hit the ¥5T ($45.2B) Market Cap, that was the first time in eight years and five months.

- It is now one of the top 15 companies by Market Cap on the Tokyo Stock Exchange ahead of companies like the Mizuho Financial Group and Nissan Motors.

- Nintendo's market cap once reached 10 trillion yen in 2007 amid the initial success of the Wii console, only to later sink back to 1 trillion yen.

Source for all the above trivia: http://asia.nikkei.com/Markets/Equities/Nintendo-market-cap-hits-5tn-yen

Last time Nintendo valued more than Sony was last year's Pokémon Go craze. That lasted only a day. - Takashi Mochizuki

- I could not find a historical market cap for Sony but their highest(?) peak in share price was ¥31,000 on March 3rd, 2000. (I can't find how many outstanding shares they had at that time.)


- Not related to Market Cap but Nintendo has between 5,000-6,000 employees while Sony has 146,300.


Apple, Alphabet and Microsoft are still giants in comparison with Apple having almost $800 billion in Market Capitalization.

Mario 3D Land (as just one example) was developed by a team of 30 people and sold 11+ millions copies. It's clear who the kings of videogames are. Sony's studio structure is vastly less efficient/economical/profitable/successful. This disparity has to fall on one Shuhei Yoshida, who I'm starting to believe is demonstrating a gross ineptitude in taking worldwide studios to the next level

 

[Skittzo0413]

What's interesting about it is that Nintendo's stock gains probably wouldn't be happening nearly as quickly if investors didn't have the Wii/DS era example to look at just 10 years ago. It looks to be following the exact same trajectory at a much faster pace, simply because the Switch looks to be doing similar sales as the Wii. Had there been no Wii spike, there wouldn't be a comparison point for investors to look at.

This is honestly not that impressive. Nintendo stock was always going to jump back to their core value of 70 Billion. Investors are starving for options in the stock market and overvalueing Nintendo as a result. By the time FF7 Remake gets out the market cap of Sony will blow Nintendo away. Clearly we need to look at revenue to get a view on a company their financial health. With a dying 3DS and floundering Switch sales with no third party support,, there is noway Nintendo can keep this up

Damn, you're good at these!

Anyone know what the most recent Switch world wide sales figure is?

We only officially know March shipments/sales of 2.74m. Estimating from MC and NPD should put them between 4.5 and 5m now.

 

[WeirdoStalkerJr]

the Metroid effect

investors are excited about Prime 4

I wanna see investors all come in the next share holder meeting with Samus helmets.

 

[jroc74]

Mario 3D Land (as just one example) was developed by a team of 30 people and sold 11+ millions copies. It's clear who the kings of videogames are. Sony's studio structure is vastly less efficient/economical/profitable/successful. This disparity has to fall on one Shuhei Yoshida, who I'm starting to believe is demonstrating a gross ineptitude in taking worldwide studios to the next level

I'm unsure how the number of employees for the entire company tells you this.

 

[Outrun]

Mario 3D Land (as just one example) was developed by a team of 30 people and sold 11+ millions copies. It's clear who the kings of videogames are. Sony's studio structure is vastly less efficient/economical/profitable/successful. This disparity has to fall on one Shuhei Yoshida, who I'm starting to believe is demonstrating a gross ineptitude in taking worldwide studios to the next level

Easy there tiger.

Yoshida's set of business restrains is significantly different at Sony. I don't think that he is inept at all.

 

[NintendosBooger]

Sony lucked into this industry.

It was so bush league back in the day, with dumbass Sega and stubborn Nintendo with its Japanese headlock on their third party partners, that Sony with its expertise culled from experience in more mature and competitive markets saw an opportunity in video games and it was like taking candy from a baby.

 

[ggx2ac]

Mario 3D Land (as just one example) was developed by a team of 30 people and sold 11+ millions copies. It's clear who the kings of videogames are. Sony's studio structure is vastly less efficient/economical/profitable/successful. This disparity has to fall on one Shuhei Yoshida, who I'm starting to believe is demonstrating a gross ineptitude in taking worldwide studios to the next level

Umm... The PlayStation division doesn't have 146,300 employees.

 

[jroc74]

Sony lucked into this industry.

It was so bush league back in the day, with dumbass Sega and stubborn Nintendo with its Japanese headlock on their third party partners, that Sony with its expertise culled from experience in more mature and competitive markets saw an opportunity in video games and it was like taking candy from a baby.

These 2 things seem to contradict....

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Speaking of valuable IP, how much do you reckon the Pokemon IP would fetch on an open market? Hundreds of millions?

$1b+ easy. It is an entire multimedia and merchandising empire unto itself with 2 decades of worldwide cultural mindshare.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

I'm absolutely astonished at some of the posts in this thread lol. Definitely a video game enthusiast forum and not a business one.

Exactly.....there are some really silly posts in this thread.

 

[NintendosBooger]

These 2 things seem to contradict....

Nope. They practically get their asses handed to them in virtually every other market they've tried to penetrate. The video game industry was so bush leagues back in the day and ran by tyrants or dumbasses that it was easy pickings for Sony.

 

[dragonyeuw]

Think more in the range of 2-5 billion, if not more. And that's being super conservative.

Yes, Star Wars sold for 2 or so Billion, but looking back on it. That's a crazy cheap sell for Star Wars. And Disney is reaping the benefits in a major way.

Star Wars sold for 4 Billion:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2012/10/30/disney-star-wars-lucasfilm/1669739/

Without doing any further digging I'm pretty sure they made a good portion of that just off the profits from Force awakens, Rogue One and any related merchandise/marketing. And that's without considering the two mainline( episode 8 and 9) and anthology( Han Solo, possible Obi-wan, etc) films still on the horizon.

So, yeah. They're going to make back that money hand over fist in relatively short order.

 

[rudger]

This is not surprising. They were severely undervalued during the end of the Wii and during the Wii U days. The fact they even made money during some of the Wii U years should have been a sign that they were a financially responsible company that, although in a slump, was not in bad enough shape that they couldn't recover. Then they released Amiibo and showed continued interest in their IP. Then mobile and more interest in their IP (and raised hardware/software sales to boot). Then the NES mini and more interest. And now the Switch.

Next year they will introduce their paid online. This model is a large reason Sony, Microsoft and even EA have profitable gaming divisions.

Then there is the Universal deal and the Olympics.

Nintendo has a lot of room for growth and they were previously undervalued. I've no idea what it'll settle on, but the increase is justified.

OH! And then you have the nonsense in the US causing investors to put their money in Asian and European markets. Big investors were looking for stable financially responsible companies. Nintendo fit that bill.

 

[zelas]

This is only one metric of valuation. Why do we only look at the value of equity in the two companies? Why not enterprise value?

Because market cap takes into account inflating factors such as investor sentiment and growth prospects (sometimes treasury shares). I suspect market cap is being brought, despite not being a true measure, because right now its convenient to certain people. Writers looking for clicks or message boards users looking for validation.

There were a couple of twitter threads about this very subject last week involving Serkan Toto, ZhugeEX and others where they all pretty much agreed there are better metrics.

 

[Kebiinu]

So....can we finally call the Switch a success? Or still too soon?

 

[Sponge]

This is probably gonna sound really dumb, but what are the chances of Disney buying out Sony in the future? They're gonna want Spider-man back no matter what.

 

[Insane Metal]

Ahead of Nissan Motors?! Wtf.

 

[HStallion]

This thread is kind of amazing. I can't even tell where reality ends and the trolling begins in a lot of cases.

 

[Skittzo0413]

So....can we finally call the Switch a success? Or still too soon?

Still too soon. We still have no official sales numbers past March. We might get some in a week though.

 

[Currygan]

Goddamn it. Nintendo knows some shit about how to run a businness

Not aimed at you mate, but I would be happy to not see that rotten piece of disgusting fecal matter used as a humourous reply again

 

[Trup1aya]

This is probably gonna sound really dumb, but what are the chances of Disney buying out Sony in the future? They're gonna want Spider-man back no matter what.

What do you mean? Does Sony have a long term license on Spider-Man games?

 

[NSESN]

Between movies, mobile, switch and theme parks Nintendo is posed to make a lot of money in the next 5 years. Nintendo always was a very profitable company, Wii U was such a failure that people forgot that.

 

[Sponge]

What do you mean? Does Sony have a long term license on Spider-Man games?

Not games no, but Sony Pictures has the film rights.

 

[ggx2ac]

This is only one metric of valuation. Why do we only look at the value of equity in the two companies? Why not enterprise value?

Today I learned about Enterprise Value and why it would be more preferred for valuing companies in regards to a takeover bid.

It takes into account their debts and equity that when you purchase a business, you would also be taking on their debt and/or pocketing their cash.

This probably explains why Toshiba spun off their unit that manufactures NAND flash memory to just sell that because I don't think anyone would want to buy the whole business that has billions of dollars of debt from Westinghouse going bankrupt.

If I'm wrong, I'll correct that.

 

[Nairume]

These 2 things seem to contradict....

Not really. Sony was definitely smart in regards to what they did to win third parties and consumers over, but it would not have worked if they didn't luck into an industry where the two leaders had positioned things to allow Sony in like that.

 

[InsaneTiger]

This is probably gonna sound really dumb, but what are the chances of Disney buying out Sony in the future? They're gonna want Spider-man back no matter what.

If it was affordable to Disney they would have already done so with Fox and Sony. The deal Marvel signed with them was a pretty sweet deal for Fox and Sony. I'm pretty sure as long they make a movie within a certain amount of time, they retain the movie rights.

 

[Aeriscloud]

Return of the King.

 

[Sponge]

If it was affordable to Disney they would have already done so with Fox and Sony. The deal Marvel signed with them was a pretty sweet deal for Fox and Sony. I'm pretty sure as long they make a movie within a certain amount of time, they retain the movie rights.

Exactly. Though, with Sony Pictures not doing so hot lately I feel like selling them Disney might not be a bad idea. We'll never see X-Men or Fantastic Four back at Marvel in our lifetime.

 

[Trup1aya]

Not games no, but Sony Pictures has the film rights.

Oh I c you were suggesting that Disney would buy Sony for the spider-man movie rights...

I doubt it. I shutter to think of the subsequent job losses after an acquisition like that. I do wonder how much the movie rights would be worth today...

 

[Pachael]

Wish Iwata were around to see this recovery.

Yeah, the mobile successes like Pokemon Go, the IP deals with Universal, and the wild successful start of the Switch would make him really happy, particularly after years of being grilled by investors, media and the gaming public

 

[SmokedMeat]

Nope. They practically get their asses handed to them in virtually every other market they've tried to penetrate. The video game industry was so bush leagues back in the day and ran by tyrants or dumbasses that it was easy pickings for Sony.

Tell me another bedtime story.

 

[TAS]

Return of the King 👑What's even more amazing is their size to employee ratio. I heard a while back that is was ridiculously small--like under 2000 employees worldwide?

 

[NintendosBooger]

Wish Iwata were around to see this recovery.

It's pretty depressing to know that two of Nintendo's greatest presidents died on the Wii U's watch.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Is this even Nintendo'd final form?

 

[Smasher89]

Then they allowed Mighty no 9 to release in its current state on the Wii U platform, that seal is no longer valid due to that.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Is this even Nintendo'd final form?

They have a lot more potential for growth after the theme park/movie utilizations of their IP start to pop up. Assuming the Switch continues selling as well as it is now (and the stock situation improves vastly) I think it's certainly possible Nintendo's stock value will hit an all time high surpassing the Wii height somewhere around or after 2020.

However, any major missteps before then might send it way down. It's a very volatile stock.

 

[Soul of the Beast]

Either way, Japan still wins.

Good.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

The Switch has made it.

Eh, this Switch is a factor but it's not the lone one.

 

[JJH]

the ball is in sony's court now
microsoft deserves more flak for letting this happen.

 

[InsaneTiger]

Exactly. Though, with Sony Pictures not doing so hot lately I feel like selling them Disney might not be a bad idea. We'll never see X-Men or Fantastic Four back at Marvel in our lifetime.

I feel its the opposite. Spider-Man will be huge and we'll see see FF back to Marvel in the next 10 years. But, I don't know how anything will go, Sony seems to keep on trucking despite itself.

 

[KaKaRi]

Mario 3D Land (as just one example) was developed by a team of 30 people and sold 11+ millions copies. It's clear who the kings of videogames are. Sony's studio structure is vastly less efficient/economical/profitable/successful. This disparity has to fall on one Shuhei Yoshida, who I'm starting to believe is demonstrating a gross ineptitude in taking worldwide studios to the next level

No offence to the gameplay of Mario, but 30 people to recycle the same formula is more than enough.

And you can't just claim sony is less efficient is you don't know their 1st party team details. give us an example of sony not being efficient enough in their gaming division?

On topic, I hope Nintendo can keep the momentum as the financial market can be traitorous and stab you in the back tomorrow.

 

[Monkeyball]

No offence to the gameplay of Mario, but 30 people to recycle the same formula is more than enough.

And you can't just claim sony is less efficient is you don't know their 1st party team details. give us an example of sony not being efficient enough in their gaming division?

On topic, I hope Nintendo can keep the momentum as the financial market can be traitorous and stab you in the back tomorrow.

Nice troll.

 

[rudger]

They have a lot more potential for growth after the theme park/movie utilizations of their IP start to pop up. Assuming the Switch continues selling as well as it is now (and the stock situation improves vastly) I think it's certainly possible Nintendo's stock value will hit an all time high surpassing the Wii height somewhere around or after 2020.

However, any major missteps before then might send it way down. It's a very volatile stock.

Oh sure. Very volatile stock, but not a very volatile company. I've been buying and selling their stock for years cause of this. The spikes are often sudden and the fall is predictable. This time though the baseline appears to have raised...which is why I never worried too much about buying in.

 

[dracula_x]

Is Sony still bleeding money from its other divisions? Movies, Tv's, phones, etc?

Yes.

Is that Google search so complex nowadays?

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/fr/16q4_sony.pdf

The HE&S segment includes the Televisions as well as Audio and Video categories. Televisions includes LCD televisions; Audio and Video
includes Blu-ray DiscTM players and recorders, home audio, headphones and memory-based portable audio devices.

So answer is "no" actually.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Nintendo won.

 

[Currygan]

No offence to the gameplay of Mario, but 30 people to recycle the same formula is more than enough.

And you can't just claim sony is less efficient is you don't know their 1st party team details. give us an example of sony not being efficient enough in their gaming division?

On topic, I hope Nintendo can keep the momentum as the financial market can be traitorous and stab you in the back tomorrow.

I mean, why even start a post with such pathetic ignorance? It makes whatever you write after it completely irrilevant

 

[Neff]

And you can't just claim sony is less efficient is you don't know their 1st party team details. give us an example of sony not being efficient enough in their gaming division?

Being less efficient isn't the same as not being efficient enough.

Although if you compare the profits of Nintendo and Sony side-by-side for as long as they've both been in the games industry, Nintendo is conclusively more efficient at bringing in money and managing losses.

No offence to the gameplay of Mario, but 30 people to recycle the same formula is more than enough.

Oh.

 

[Weebos]

I'm sure there are people more knowledgeable in this thread, so correct me if I'm wrong here.

But is this saying that Nintendo is currently worth more than the entirety of Sony? Not just the video game division of Sony?

That seems really good for Nintendo (that or really bad for Sony).

Or is this a non-story in the grand scheme of things?

 

[joe_zazen]

I'm sure there are people more knowledgeable in this thread, so correct me if I'm wrong here.

But is this saying that Nintendo is currently worth more than the entirety of Sony? Not just the video game division of Sony?

That seems really good for Nintendo (that or really bad for Sony).

Or is this a non-story in the grand scheme of things?

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Edit:non story in the sense that people are comparing two very different companies.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

Mario 3D Land (as just one example) was developed by a team of 30 people and sold 11+ millions copies. It's clear who the kings of videogames are. Sony's studio structure is vastly less efficient/economical/profitable/successful. This disparity has to fall on one Shuhei Yoshida, who I'm starting to believe is demonstrating a gross ineptitude in taking worldwide studios to the next level

This week has been an interesting week in terms of ignorant posts on gaf.