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[Cromat]

Just looked at the financial reports for both companies. It seems that Nintendo is more profitable than Sony (the entire conglomerate) in percentage terms, though both are quite low with operating margins of 6.5% and 4.5% respectively. Profitability is a key performance indicator for investors.

2016 was a generally a rough year for Nintendo (Pokemon Go excluded), so investors are likely even more optimistic now that the company appears to be back in the console game with the Switch plus displaying greater levels of openness to new business areas with mobile, cross-play etc.

It might very well be the case that PlayStation would have done better from an investors point of view if it had been an independent company. I'll have to look on the numbers for PlayStation specifically though.

 

[Nategc20]

How is this even possible with 60 million PS4's sold?

Sony seriously need to clean up the other arms of their business, and by clean up I mean cut them adrift

Probably because literally in this order.

Switch, Pokemon, Mario, sales, IP's(splatoon, arms, mario kart, zelda, metroid), 3ds, 2ds and possibly the Snes mini?

Sony has what this year except for spidey homecoming (which is a joint venture) and the ps4?

 

[vpance]

Just looked at the financial reports for both companies. It seems that Nintendo is more profitable than Sony (the entire conglomerate) in percentage terms, though both are quite low with operating margins of 6.5% and 4.5% respectively. Profitability is a key performance indicator for investors.

2016 was a generally a rough year for Nintendo (Pokemon Go excluded), so investors are likely even more optimistic now that the company appears to be back in the console game with the Switch plus displaying greater levels of openness to new business areas with mobile, cross-play etc.

It might very well be the case that PlayStation would have done better from an investors point of view if it had been an independent company. I'll have to look on the numbers for PlayStation specifically though.

Their profit margins are low against its peers across the board I think, bar financial? Movies suck. Games is also low if you compare against software pubs. Semiconductors, high volume but low margin. And mobile and home entertainment have just begun to scrape by.

Next time someone says Sony is killing it, or fuck em they are greedy, gimme gimme, consider they are basically living pay check to pay check, lol.

 

[jackal27]

How is this even possible with 60 million PS4's sold?

Sony seriously need to clean up the other arms of their business, and by clean up I mean cut them adrift

I mean you answered you're own question. They're in. They're in very rough shape outside of Playsation.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Probably because literally in this order.

Switch, Pokemon, Mario, sales, IP's(splatoon, arms, mario kart, zelda, metroid), 3ds, 2ds and possibly the Snes mini?

Sony has what this year except for spidey homecoming (which is a joint venture) and the ps4?

Don't forget about merchandising and the upcoming Universal Theme Park attractions.

 

[wildfire]

More like how in trouble Sony is. This is pretty embarrassing for them. Nintendo is a company dedicated to only one industry, while Sony has its hands in many. They're a big multinational corporation. Their games division is of course doing the best, but it's real bad indicator for them as a company in general. Sadly it's only another notch on several major negative signs that the company is floundering in the last decade.

No.

Their best division is their insurance company and will continue to remain so.


Games I think is still their 3rd best but I haven't seen any news about it in the last year.

 

[dracula_x]

I mean you answered you're own question. They're in. They're in very rough shape outside of Playsation.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/28/reut...ar-old-record-with-73-pct-jump-this-year.html

Sony sees profit nearing 20-year-old record with 73 pct jump this year

"very rough shape" indeed.

They have a lot of healthy divisions now, like Sony Music for example.

 

[RRockman]

How is this even possible with 60 million PS4's sold?

Sony seriously need to clean up the other arms of their business, and by clean up I mean cut them adrift

 

[whyreggielie]

Speaking of valuable IP, how much do you reckon the Pokemon IP would fetch on an open market? Hundreds of millions?

Lol no more like billions. The second biggest video games franchise of all time and all the success it has had with merchandise, movies, and anime as well as still being a household name 20 years later would fetch a pretty penny.

Also this doesn't mean that Nintendo makes more it only means they are worth more. Also a fun fact, Yamauchi was once the richest man in Japan and worth billion of dollars.

 

[AmuroChan]

More like how in trouble Sony is. This is pretty embarrassing for them. Nintendo is a company dedicated to only one industry, while Sony has its hands in many. They're a big multinational corporation. Their games division is of course doing the best, but it's real bad indicator for them as a company in general. Sadly it's only another notch on several major negative signs that the company is floundering in the last decade.

Actually, Sony is in much healthier shape than even 2-3 years ago when some analysts predicted the company could go bankrupt. The turnaround has been slow but steady and now they're moving in the right direction. As a long time shareholder, this is the best their stocks is doing in almost a decade. They still got some fat and dead weight they need to trim off, but they're definitely trending up as a company.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Sounds like it's about time for Nintendo to go third party to me.

 

[joe_zazen]

Probably because literally in this order.

Switch, Pokemon, Mario, sales, IP's(splatoon, arms, mario kart, zelda, metroid), 3ds, 2ds and possibly the Snes mini?

Sony has what this year except for spidey homecoming (which is a joint venture) and the ps4?

The thing with companies like N is their stock price is sensitive to hype, as the Pokemon go surge showed. IIRC, N even issued a statement telling investors / potential investors that the surge was not warranted. Sock market psychology is a big part of what gets you market cap with high viz, consumer facing companies.

Having said that, they do have the most valuable IP in gaming and there is no reason that they wont dominate as they come to terms with mobile, GaaS, etc.

 

[vpance]

They have a lot of healthy divisions now, like Sony Music for example.

Fate Grand Order is helping there.

They need more mobile games to suck in all that whale money. More high profit margin revenue streams, in general.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

So, when Sony goes third party, which IP's do you want to see head to Nintendo, and which to Microsoft?

 

[Jigorath]

Sony has what this year except for spidey homecoming (which is a joint venture) and the ps4?

Insurance? Finance? Image sensors? Music?

It's like some of you have no clue where these companies find success.

 

[Puruzi]

Nintendoomed and 3rd party though?

 

[Skittzo0413]

Oh sure. Very volatile stock, but not a very volatile company. I've been buying and selling their stock for years cause of this. The spikes are often sudden and the fall is predictable. This time though the baseline appears to have raised...which is why I never worried too much about buying in.

Yeah I've been following it since around 2009-2010, and it has become extremely predictable. I would agree though that the baseline has been raised with the success of their core business, and I'm very hopeful that it will not drop off like 2009-2010 again since Nintendo's long term business strategy seems far more sound now than it did back in the Wii/DS era.

I'm expecting some temporary dips after either the June shareholders meeting or the July quarterly results briefing though. Depends on whether they actually release sales numbers at either.

 

[Hylian7]

The success of the switch is truly incredible. It really doesn't make sense to me.

It turns out launching a console with a good idea and a major critically acclaimed Zelda game moves units.

 

[Usobuko]

Probably because literally in this order.

Switch, Pokemon, Mario, sales, IP's(splatoon, arms, mario kart, zelda, metroid), 3ds, 2ds and possibly the Snes mini?

Sony has what this year except for spidey homecoming (which is a joint venture) and the ps4?

It's mobile, or rather the potential of mobile than the games you listed here.

When pokemon go was released, their valuation went up like 15b+. Supercell was sold for like 10-12b back then. The latter had 2.3b and 900m+ profit last year.

You spoke as if Nintendo traditional business is on par with current PlayStation. I highly doubt it with non existence western third parties sales and much lower subscription fees.

Either way, Japan still wins.

Good.

Japan is the biggest loser I had known since 2000s.

Lost cultural relevance, tech dominance and relegated to the few niche eastern countries westerners are in love with.

Mario 3D Land (as just one example) was developed by a team of 30 people and sold 11+ millions copies. It's clear who the kings of videogames are. Sony's studio structure is vastly less efficient/economical/profitable/successful. This disparity has to fall on one Shuhei Yoshida, who I'm starting to believe is demonstrating a gross ineptitude in taking worldwide studios to the next level

Heritage is kinda hard to overcome.

Do you think it's possible for someone to come up with star wars, pokemon or marvel equivalent in today's day and age?

Not taking away Nintendo efficiency and ability to create good games and selling them. It's thus Sony approach the business with a different model than Nintendo and Sony worldwide studios are successful in that regard.

 

[dracula_x]

Nintendoomed and 3rd party though?

to be fair, Activision Blizzard have basically a same market cap as Nintendo and Sony

So it doesn't matter – 1st party or 3rd party.

and please don't look at Tencent market cap

 

[Nategc20]

Insurance? Finance? Image sensors? Music?

It's like some of you have no clue where these companies find success.

None of which are driving up their stock. Outside of insurance and gaming, Sony is a mediocre company to invest in. Been that way for years.

 

[13ruce]

Sony simply can't compete mobile gaming wise alot of their IP's are adult or 16+ content.

Mobile gaming is huge so i am sure a big part of the Nintendo market cap is because of that.

 

[dracula_x]

Sony simply can't compete mobile gaming wise alot of their IP's are adult or 16+ content.

Mobile gaming is huge so i am sure a big part of the Nintendo market cap is because of that.

sure, they can't

Bloomberg: Sony's Fate/Grand Order (mobile game) making more than Pokemon Go in Japan

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1322421

Sony's Fate/Grand Order was the #3 highest grossing mobile game worldwide in January

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1344359


also, since then Everybody's Golf, Doko Demo Issho and other titles are " adult or 16+ content."

→ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1322850

 

[joe_zazen]

Outside of insurance and gaming, Sony is a mediocre company to invest in. Been that way for years.

Why would anyone exclude 2 of their best performing divisions in analysing Sony's future prospects?

It's a fine company to invest in as current management is quite capable.

 

[Caronte]

Probably because literally in this order.

Switch, Pokemon, Mario, sales, IP's(splatoon, arms, mario kart, zelda, metroid), 3ds, 2ds and possibly the Snes mini?

Sony has what this year except for spidey homecoming (which is a joint venture) and the ps4?

Indie games like Gran Turismo.

 

[Vanille]

Nintendoomed and 3rd party though?

Nintendoomed is so 2014.

Sonydoomed is the new hotness.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Nintendoomed is so 2014.

Sonydoomed is the new hotness.

It's like it's 2007 all over again.

 

[Grief.exe]

Switch's success helps, but I have a feeling a lot of this is the market pricing in the future growth into mobile platforms.

The console market growth rate is set to continually stagnate as they struggle to bring in new markets and users. Investors are looking to a market 10 years from now.

 

[reelbigtink]

Nintendoomed is so 2014.

Sonydoomed is the new hotness.

We need a change of pace like this around here to make things interesting.

Atari's new console gonna outsell Sony 3 to 1

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Switch's success helps, but I have a feeling a lot of this is the market pricing in the future growth into mobile platforms.

The console market growth rate is set to continually stagnate as they struggle to bring in new markets and users. Investors are looking to a market 10 years from now.

Hence why the Switch is more than just a console
They merged 2 markets to create a 3rd one

 

[rudger]

Yeah I've been following it since around 2009-2010, and it has become extremely predictable. I would agree though that the baseline has been raised with the success of their core business, and I'm very hopeful that it will not drop off like 2009-2010 again since Nintendo's long term business strategy seems far more sound now than it did back in the Wii/DS era.

I'm expecting some temporary dips after either the June shareholders meeting or the July quarterly results briefing though. Depends on whether they actually release sales numbers at either.

I agree with all of this. I'm also looking forward to their dividend increasing.

One benefit of the Wii U era was watching them learn to operate with slimmer overhead costs. So while their revenue would go down, their profits didn't go down nearly as much. now they get to take those lessons forward as their revenues increase.

 

[arevin01]

Sony's TV business and movie studios not doing too hot. Points to Spiderman.

 

[Deadpool_X]

I feel really happy about buying Nintendo stock late last year. The gains will cover any gaming expense I'd have all year and then some.

Wish I'd bought back in 2012 when I'd originally wanted to. I want to say it was at like $11 a share.

 

[HStallion]

Sony's TV business and movie studios not doing too hot. Points to Spiderman.

From the television OT:

Sony Corp.'s resurgence in the premium TV market is starting to threaten the lead enjoyed by South Korea's Samsung Electronics Co. and LG Electronics Inc., industry data showed Sunday.

Data provided by the global market tracker IHS showed that in the first half of this year, Sony accounted for 39 percent of all TVs with a price tag exceeding $1,500, up more than twofold compared with 17.5 percent tallied by the Japanese company in the previous quarter.

In the January-March period, LG's worldwide market share in the upper-end market fell 8 percentage points from the previous quarter to 35.8 percent, placing it second. Samsung trailed at 13.2 percent, after falling 7 percentage points from the October-December period of 2016.

The numbers represent a sharp shift, because only a year ago. Samsung enjoyed a 39.5 percent market share in the premium segment, with LG and Sony trailing at 17.7 percent and 17.5 percent, respectively.

"Samsung's dominance has been shaken by aggressive promotions of organic light-emitting diode TVs by LG and Sony," an industry insider said.

He said that while the two South Korean companies still controlled the ultra-high end TV market, with the unit price of a set topping $2,500, Sony was catching up.

In the ultra-expensive TV areas, LG has ruled supreme this year, with a market share of 40.8 percent in the first quarter, unchanged from a year earlier. Sony's market share jumped 9.8 percentage points to 34.4 percent, while Samsung surrendered 12.4 percentage points to 11 percent.

Among 70-inch TV sets, Samsung held 31.6 percent of the market in the first quarter, with Sony trailing at 26.6 percent. In 2015, the gap stood at more than 20 percentage points.

Industry watchers said to counter Sony's rise, LG and Samsung have both moved into even a more value-added market and have started to improve their marketing efforts.

"South Korean companies are still leading in the cutting-edge TV arena, yet Sony is doing all it can to overtake them. This is making it imperative for Samsung and LG to stay one step ahead of their rival," a consumer electronics expert said. (Yonhap)

 

[Tecnniqe]

Hori shit sun!

 

[Liliana Eileen]

Sony's TV business and movie studios not doing too hot. Points to Spiderman.

They need to sell the movie rights back to Marvel already instead of constantly fucking it up.

 

[AmuroChan]

Wish I'd bought back in 2012 when I'd originally wanted to. I want to say it was at like $11 a share.

Yep, it was under $10 at one point in 2012.

 

[hodayathink]

Sony's TV business and movie studios not doing too hot. Points to Spiderman.

Sony Pictures basically broke even last year if you don't count the one-time impairment charge they took. They aren't in great shape, but they aren't in "we need to sell off this part of the business" shape, either. The general argument is that with one major franchise that as of its last movie is on the decline (Spidey) and another that they aren't even sure they're keeping (Bond), they aren't particularly well set up for the future.

 

[spekkeh]

It turns out launching a console with a good idea and a major critically acclaimed Zelda game moves units.

Yes...but...does it make sense?!?!

Anyway +1.21% again today on a market that did -0.53%

What doesn't make sense I guess is that Sony is doing so poorly when obviously Kaz Hirai has done a lot to right the ship. I'm guessing after 15 years of crap shareholders are right to be cautious. Might be a stock that will steadily surge some years from now though.

 

[PSqueak]

Wait, Nintendo is worth more than the ENTIRETY of Sony?!

 

[dracula_x]

Yep, it was under $10 at one point in 2012.

Mostly the same for Sony, btw. It was under $10 in 2013, now – $38.52

Wait, Nintendo is worth more than the ENTIRETY of Sony?!

Facebook is "worth" more than both combined. Yes, company that sells ads.

Switch's success helps, but I have a feeling a lot of this is the market pricing in the future growth into mobile platforms.

The console market growth rate is set to continually stagnate as they struggle to bring in new markets and users. Investors are looking to a market 10 years from now.

They aren't, it's impossible to predict something on that scale. 3-5 years more likely.

But yes, mobile will "eat" console and PC market at some point.

 

[RPGamer92]

They need to sell the movie rights back to Marvel already instead of constantly fucking it up.

Will you ever make a positive post about Sony lol.

 

[KratosEnergyDrink]

Facebook is "worth" more than both combined. Yes, company that sells ads.

Facebook sells user data.

Sony sells consoles and games amongst other things, so they are comparable to Nintendo, unlike Facebook. Obviously.

 

[Ogodei]

More like how in trouble Sony is. This is pretty embarrassing for them. Nintendo is a company dedicated to only one industry, while Sony has its hands in many. They're a big multinational corporation. Their games division is of course doing the best, but it's real bad indicator for them as a company in general. Sadly it's only another notch on several major negative signs that the company is floundering in the last decade.

I remember Sony's struggles earlier this decade, but i thought Kaz had basically righted the ship?

 

[Philly40]

Wish I'd bought back in 2012 when I'd originally wanted to. I want to say it was at like $11 a share.

If your're going to use hindsight, then you would have been far better off buying into Netflix in 2012, or betting on Trump as president.

 

[Heshinsi]

Just looked at the financial reports for both companies. It seems that Nintendo is more profitable than Sony (the entire conglomerate) in percentage terms, though both are quite low with operating margins of 6.5% and 4.5% respectively. Profitability is a key performance indicator for investors.

2016 was a generally a rough year for Nintendo (Pokemon Go excluded), so investors are likely even more optimistic now that the company appears to be back in the console game with the Switch plus displaying greater levels of openness to new business areas with mobile, cross-play etc.

It might very well be the case that PlayStation would have done better from an investors point of view if it had been an independent company. I'll have to look on the numbers for PlayStation specifically though.

Isn't Nintendo ahead in net profits (and behind in operating profits) for last year due to the aforementioned Marlins sale?

 

[Scoops]

Wait, Nintendo is worth more than the ENTIRETY of Sony?!

Yes

 

[vpance]

If your're going to use hindsight, then you would have been far better off buying into Netflix in 2012, or betting on Trump as president.

Yeah. Many other tech and gaming stocks are up like close to or more than 10x since that time. Sony's still struggling for 4x.

I still like the stock though. But it's a Japan play more than anything else. If you're buying for tech there's better choices.

 

[sensi97]

I remember Sony's struggles earlier this decade, but i thought Kaz had basically righted the ship?

I would take posts here about Sony current financial situation with a grain of salt. It seems many contradict each other.

If you want, check their latest results and forecasts here. Look at "FY2017 Results Forecast by Segment" in the pdf for a summary.

 

[YaBish]

The sarcasm and/or ignorance in this thread is kinda throwing me for a loop. Sony isn't about to break down as a company just because Nintendo has a slightly higher market cap.