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Opinion TV's Vs Monitors, and Why TV's Make Much More Sense for Next Gen Consoles

Bo_Hazem

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I hope this helps!

Many people get confused between response time and input lag, and most people think that monitors have a massive edge over TV's, which is totally false.

Here are the tests, and please note that most of these are 1080p and 1440p, aren't even 4K! 4K is 4x times 1080p, and they rarely have HDR or quality image processing. Look at native resolution @ 60Hz and VRR@60Hz. They are pretty damn similar/close in input lag, and even many TV's are beating monitors as well:



And now TV's



TV's generally offer superior image quality at 4K@60Hz or even 4K@120Hz, VRR, ALLM, eARC with HDMI 2.1. Now let's take a look at a low budget 4K HDR TV, Sony X800H (XH80), with only HDMI 2.0! It has a 43" size for people with tight spaces:


And a high-end, considered as the best TV for gaming to some, the LG CX (although it's 40Gbps not 48Gbps compared to previous C9)



4K is 4x times 1080p quality, if you're still watching 4K content on a 1080p screen then you're only recieving a maximum of 25% of the actually image quality. Probably that's why many are confused with next gen games.

My personal advice? If you're into OLED's, go for LG C9 (and CX but has 40Gbps instead of 48Gbps). For LCD LED, "wait" for Sony XH90 (X900H) reviews. Both seem to be the prime HDMI 2.1 options.

There are plenty of good tv's out there, those are my very short list of my personal best possible TV's for next gen gaming. A low/medium budget 4K HDR with only HDMI 2.0 will still be a massive upgrade over 1080p. Try watching as much reviews from experts as possible to make up your mind.

Reference:

www.rtings.com

EDIT:

A wonderful guide of all the TV's offering HDMI 2.1. But be careful as features and specs of HDMI 2.1 isn't supported in all of them (4K@120Hz, VRR, ALLM, eARC):

▶ HDMI 2.1 TVs:
LG: C9, G9, W9, Z9, CX, GX, WX, XZ + 2020 NanoCell TVs.
Samsung: Q70T, Q80T, Q90T, Q90R, Q95T, Q800T, Q900TS, Q950TS
Sony: Z8H, X900H
Other: TCL & Vizio and more brands are adding HDMI 2.1 TVs this year.

Copied from the description of this video:


And another one, timestamped about gaming, but better watch the whole thing (NOTE: Sony X900H starts at $999 for 55", not $1400)



Wonderful review for potential LG CX (C9) buyers:


More about HDMI 2.1 vs 2.0 cables, so you don't overpay for BS, I personally paid around 16 OMR ($41.6 USD) for 5 meters golden HDMI 2.0, didn't find something cheaper at that shop:


An extremely detailed video from a Sony professional explaining in depth and easy language and graphs many tv techs, among them Sony's insane Motionflow XR 240Hz (X-Motion Clarity upgrade above that on X900H and higher), Triluminos Display color depth, and lots of other things including HDMI 2.1 for gaming: (15:51 for X900H specifically)




You have a very tight budget for $600-1000 max? Don't worry, check this amazing video, and note that prices are changing the more we go to the end of 2020 or early 2021 for best deals:




Thanks to J Jigga117 for sharing this that should let you understand the requirments of each resolution/framerates/color depth:




Participants in this thread with first hand experience/owners of the best next gen options which support full features of HDMI 2.1 (4K@120Hz, ALLM, VRR, eARC):

LG CX: N Nerd Strangler (48")
-----
LG C9: NeoIkaruGAF NeoIkaruGAF (55") + Rbk_3 Rbk_3 (??) + HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 (77") + n0razi n0razi (65") + nomad171 nomad171 (55")
-----
Sony X900H (XH90): HeisenbergFX4 HeisenbergFX4 (65") + S0ULZB0URNE S0ULZB0URNE (65") + McHuj McHuj (85") + B Bruno_Arrais85 (75") + Come On Tars Come On Tars (85")
 
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Bo_Hazem

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As far as the c9 over cx, they are both 10 bit panels, 12 bit capable port doesn’t matter on the c9. 48 Gbps are only needed for 12 bit.
Probably, just added the insane input lag numbers of CX to OP.

A lot of ppl are afraid of burn in effect on oled TVs
Me too, I use my TV as a PC monitor, and spend insane amount of hours up to 2+ days non-stop when I go crazy. And color accuracy is critical for my video/photo editing, so I'll stick with Sony XH90 but they reviews are still not out and the firmware to enable full set of features for its HDMI 2.1 chipset isn't out yet (4K@120Hz, VRR, ALLM, eARC).




So for people into LCD LED reliability/longevity like me, wait for Sony X900H (XH90) around next gen consoles launch or black Friday to see 100% accurate reviews.
 

BlackM1st

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Sony HX90 sounds good, but too big 4 me as a monitor/tv combo. I need good colors, only flat screen and something around <30"~40". I'm waiting on crazy expensive ASUS PG32UQX screen, but it's MIA unfortunately.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Sony HX90 sounds good, but too big 4 me as a monitor/tv combo. I need good colors, only flat screen and something around <30"~40". I'm waiting on crazy expensive ASUS PG32UQX screen, but it's MIA unfortunately.
I'm using 55" for my PC. You might like it ;) Except if you still prefer using usual desktop setup. I use a recliner chair and wireless keyboard/mouse. For PC gaming, it might not be optimal. You can still like place the TV like on the wall and have 2-3meters (6-10 feet) away on traditional desktop table/chair.

Some helpful ideas:





Just don't eat pizza while gaming.:lollipop_downcast_sweat:





I personally don't game on my "gaming" PC, only usual use and video/photo editing and other working stuff.
 
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BlackM1st

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Yeah, I need a traditional office desk setup, flat screen and bigger than 27". Also, a proper RGB, not a weird BGR setup, so I can work with text normally. Apparently it's a tabboo of some sorts in modern gaming monitors. Only curved gameygames trash all around. So it's either C9 or a unicorn from Asus. Tough luck.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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I have the 65" Sony X900H sitting at the house will be home late this weekend to put it through its paces.

Also just picked up the Hisense 65 H9G even though its a 4k 120hz panel its only HDMI 2.0 but wow the 4k HDR rivals my C9.

I can get the Xbox 1080p 120hz working on the Hisense but not 1440p 120hz.

Here is a picture I tried to capture the black levels on the Hisense no blooming to the naked eye.


 
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Bo_Hazem

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I have the 65" Sony X900H sitting at the house will be home late this weekend to put it through its paces.

Also just picked up the Hisense 65 H9G even though its a 4k 120hz panel its only HDMI 2.0 but wow the 4k HDR rivals my C9.

I can get the Xbox 1080p 120hz working on the Hisense but not 1440p 120hz.

Here is a picture I tried to capture the black levels on the Hisense no blooming to the naked eye.


That's wonderful! What is your take on X900H? I'm aiming for that one 65-85".
 
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is there a decently priced 27~32" monitor that has both 4K and 120 refresh? been thinking about upgrading my desktop and figure might as well look into the monitor too.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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is there a decently priced 27~32" monitor that has both 4K and 120 refresh? been thinking about upgrading my desktop and figure might as well look into the monitor too.
They're either inferior or too expensive for what you pay for:


You may read more about TV's and PC's, I've been using TV's for PC since like 2007. Now with HDMI 2.1 TV's are pretty much the best option to pick, IMO.

Why would u want to have a PC monitor in your living room?
Some have tight spaces, or they're used to traditional PC setup. But when you look at monitor prices, you pay much more for much less, except if you're going for the very high end and you're into online shooters competitively.
 
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Rikkori

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I'm using 55" for my PC. You might like it ;) Except if you still prefer using usual desktop setup. I use a recliner chair and wireless keyboard/mouse. For PC gaming, it might not be optimal. You can still like place the TV like on the wall and have 2-3meters (6-10 feet) away on traditional desktop table/chair.

Some helpful ideas:

That's basically my setup in that pic. Switched to TVs when they went 4K and never looked back, monitors were (and still are) shit & overpriced if you care about image quality. Later I added a surround sound setup and it's been bliss ever since. And above everything else a recliner is INFINITELY more comfortable and better for your back than chair at a desk. There's absolutely no going back.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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That's basically my setup in that pic. Switched to TVs when they went 4K and never looked back, monitors were (and still are) shit & overpriced if you care about image quality. Later I added a surround sound setup and it's been bliss ever since. And above everything else a recliner is INFINITELY more comfortable and better for your back than chair at a desk. There's absolutely no going back.
Good for you, mate! I know many, many people are confused and think that response time = input lag. If that was true, then LG C9/CX have a freaking 1ms response time!

I hope this thread would help more and more gamers into making their best choices, wither it's TV's or monitors, according to their needs.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem

This just popped up in my feed for input lag on that Sony.

That's pretty good without the HDMI 2.1 firmware! First review so far, eagerly waiting for a review after the release of the firmware.

My 2016 Sony DX70 55" was bought "HDR ready", but needed an firmware update. Once bought it in late 2016 with the PS4 Pro I updated it and HDR is working good since then. So I have no concerns about the HDMI 2.1 firmware as the hardware chipset is already there:

 
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Bo_Hazem

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I don't believe if we will see 120fps outside of a Tetris or something like it, so I'm fine
You don't have to if you already own a 4K HDR tv. It's not a necessity, and you'll not miss a lot. But if you're into getting an updated TV, then it's great to explore the options.

Many games have already said they will have 120 fps options but the key word here is options.

That says to me they will do so in 1080p possibly 1440p.
Probably that, and LG C9 is doing an insane input lag 6.4ms at 1080 and 6.7ms at 1440p with VRR!
 

HeisenbergFX4

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You don't have to if you already own a 4K HDR tv. It's not a necessity, and you'll not miss a lot. But if you're into getting an updated TV, then it's great to explore the options.



Probably that, and LG C9 is doing an insane input lag 6.4ms at 1080 and 6.7ms at 1440p with VRR!
Yeah I have a C9 but hate my gaming on it as all I worry about is silly burn in.

I know I am careful with it but it still concerns me the whole time I am playing.

That 900H is going to be my alternate TV if it beats out this Hisense.

I know the Sony has better future proof connections but that Hisense sure makes a stellar picture with its 180 dimming zones and 1000 nits.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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A wonderful guide of all the TV's offering HDMI 2.1. But be careful as features and specs of HDMI 2.1 isn't supported in all of them:

▶ HDMI 2.1 TVs:
LG: C9, G9, W9, Z9, CX, GX, WX, XZ + 2020 NanoCell TVs.
Samsung: Q70T, Q80T, Q90T, Q90R, Q95T, Q800T, Q900TS, Q950TS
Sony: Z8H, X900H
Other: TCL & Vizio and more brands are adding HDMI 2.1 TVs this year.

Copied from the description of this video:

 

Bo_Hazem

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Yeah I have a C9 but hate my gaming on it as all I worry about is silly burn in.

I know I am careful with it but it still concerns me the whole time I am playing.

That 900H is going to be my alternate TV if it beats out this Hisense.

I know the Sony has better future proof connections but that Hisense sure makes a stellar picture with its 180 dimming zones and 1000 nits.
That's some insane dimming zones number! I think XH90 (X900H) will be doing 1,200 nits like the X950H. To me, there is still no perfect TV, you must make compromises, and choose what you can deal with more.

I need color accuracy and image processing of Sony for video/photo editing and true image. LG C9 is wonderful but the burn-ins are pretty much my same concerns. Sony's shifting to dual-layer LCD for their mastering monitor is another indicator of OLED's short lifespan.

Dual-layer LCD is extremely close to OLED blacks:




And here is a short preview of X900H, can't fully review it without the firmware update though.




We must wait until like 2024-2025 for the flawless microLED TV's to hit the market. By then, I'll upgrade to 8K with the PS5 Pro and probably a new version of HDMI with 8K@120Hz!
 
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Why would u want to have a PC monitor in your living room?
They're either inferior or too expensive for what you pay for:


You may read more about TV's and PC's, I've been using TV's for PC since like 2007. Now with HDMI 2.1 TV's are pretty much the best option to pick, IMO.

Some have tight spaces, or they're used to traditional PC setup. But when you look at monitor prices, you pay much more for much less, except if you're going for the very high end and you're into online shooters competitively.
yeah, living room is a little difficult for me. I rather stay in my PC room with the desktop, so I'm looking at something around that size. thanks for the link there. looking through it the Acer ones would probably be my best bet. I'll keep an eye out for deals once I start doing the upgrades.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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yeah, living room is a little difficult for me. I rather stay in my PC room with the desktop, so I'm looking at something around that size. thanks for the link there. looking through it the Acer ones would probably be my best bet. I'll keep an eye out for deals once I start doing the upgrades.
Yup, it seems the only monitor between them that's offering beyond 4K@60fps. It's strange how tables are flipped. But honestly, I would rather wait for an HDMI 2.1 monitor, that monitor supports HDMI 2.0 only, and of course DP 1.4.

I would say wait for a year or so, or consider a TV? If you're not a hardcore online shooter enthusiast who prefers to sit up close to the monitor then maybe check more videos about gaming on TV's, you might find something that suits your flavor.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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That's some insane dimming zones number! I think XH90 (X900H) will be doing 1,200 nits like the X950H. To me, there is still no perfect TV, you must make compromises, and choose what you can deal with more.

I need color accuracy and image processing of Sony for video/photo editing and true image. LG C9 is wonderful but the burn-ins are pretty much my same concerns. Sony's shifting to dual-layer LCD for their mastering monitor is another indicator of OLED's short lifespan.

Dual-layer LCD is extremely close to OLED blacks:




And here is a short preview of X900H, can't fully review it without the firmware update though.




We must wait until like 2024-2025 for the flawless microLED TV's to hit the market. By then, I'll upgrade to 8K with the PS5 Pro and probably a new version of HDMI with 8K@120Hz!
The one review I have found on the 900H was in Chinese and its peak nits were sadly low under 800 will see if I can track that down.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Too bad there are no ultrawide TV's in the 32"-40" range. I'd get one otherwise.
That's actually an interesting note. I might get an ultrawide TV myself, something like cinematic 21:9 like the Xperia phones. But of course, a big screen.

Personally, I saw a Sony 85" and shocked how big it is, might go crazy and pick an X900H at that size, but probably 65-75" instead? Definetly not 55" again.

Here is that review

Thanks a lot, mate!

LG killed monitors for me, I just want OLED don't care about anything else tbh.
If you're gaming session is around 8 hours and below, and you don't have static images/icons all the time, or use it as your PC monitor then you should be fine. The newer models seem to be more resilient, but they are still "new", I guess?

Just use full-screen/hide bars if used for PC. Just be careful of that NeoGAF logo. :messenger_winking_tongue:

Nearly bought a 65" LG C9 few months ago myself.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I'm looking at either the q90t or the cx.
Gonna click the buy button within a week, dunno what to do?
CX is a wonderful TV, but OLED tend to have poor motion performance at 24-30fps and burn-in issues when abused.
Q90T is a wonderful tv, but at game mode it shows poor picture quality. HDR tends to crush details in favor of blacks.



Put in mind that is X950H, has HDMI 2.0.

I would suggest waiting until next black friday, and probably consider X900H after HDMI 2.1 firmware update and reviews? Can you wait? Do you already have a 4K HDR tv?
 
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RasAlGhoul

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Yeah I have a C9 but hate my gaming on it as all I worry about is silly burn in.

I know I am careful with it but it still concerns me the whole time I am playing.

That 900H is going to be my alternate TV if it beats out this Hisense.

I know the Sony has better future proof connections but that Hisense sure makes a stellar picture with its 180 dimming zones and 1000 nits.

My B6 has years of gaming on it and .zero burn in.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Posted 3 hours ago by Vincent!



Description:

We unbox the Sony XH90 (also marketed as the Bravia X900H in the USA) 4K LED LCD TV, which should be able to support all the key features of HDMI 2.1 (4k@120Hz, ALLM, VRR, eARC) after a firmware update later in the year. We also go through the picture settings in the user menu to see what's different from the step-up Sony XH95 (X950H). Our Bravia XH90 review sample is the 75-inch Sony KD-75XH9005 which is the UK 3-pin-plug version.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Ordered a 85X900H tonight for the eventual PS5/XSX. Can't wait!


You are my Shia Labeouf :messenger_tears_of_joy: I'm targeting 65" and hesitant to go all the way to 85".

Would love to see some picks of yours sitting on the bench or on the wall, and have your impressions about it! iT'S Still early for HDMI 2.1 as we are waiting for the firmware update. Sony must be optimizing it for PS5 right now and probably other products if available and XSX later.
 
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McHuj

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You are my Shia Labeouf :messenger_tears_of_joy: I'm targeting 65" and hesitant to go all the way to 85".

Would love to see some picks of yours sitting on the bench or on the wall, and have your impressions about it! iT'S Still early for HDMI 2.1 as we are waiting for the firmware update. Sony must be optimizing it for PS5 right now and probably other products if available and XSX later.
It will be here next week and mounted shortly after that. My living room is pretty big so I’m sitting 12-13 feet from the TV so 85” doesn’t seem that big.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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It will be here next week and mounted shortly after that. My living room is pretty big so I’m sitting 12-13 feet from the TV so 85” doesn’t seem that big.
That's around 4 meters away, sounds reasonable then! I set around 2 meters away gaming/PC, and 4-5 meters on bed watching netflix.

Will make up my mind when I see them in person! And congrats on you purchase, I hope you enjoy it.
 

solidsheelop

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I have an old trusty Panasonic plasma 1080p tv. Image quality seems quite good on it though I've been to best buy/Costco and seen some amazing sets.

I suppose I already know the answer but would it be sacrilege to not upgrade for the new gen? Anyone else going to be ps5 gaming below 4k?
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I have an old trusty Panasonic plasma 1080p tv. Image quality seems quite good on it though I've been to best buy/Costco and seen some amazing sets.

I suppose I already know the answer but would it be sacrilege to not upgrade for the new gen? Anyone else going to be ps5 gaming below 4k?
Indeed, what you see is most likely 25% of the actual graphics intended for the same tv size. If you are happy with what you got imagine you get the same graphics 4x sharper and cleaner. 4K TV's make 1080p look even better if you still wanna play at 1080p for example, when upgraded from my 37" 2007 1080p LCD LG to 55" 2015 4K LCD LG games looked way, way more better and sharper on PS4. Then went to Sony 55" 2016 4K HDR LCD LED (DX70) with PS4 Pro games looked miles better! Small text are very visible and readable, especially that the shift happened in the middle of playing Watch Dogs 2 and the difference is staggering.

8K are even much more better than 4K, problem is we don't have enough content to justify their expensive pricetags, so leave them until 2024-2025 until microLED hits the market, the perfect, flawless tv tech.

If you have a tight budget, you can tell us your max/min and ideal price and size, and we'll try our best to help you pick what suits you and makes you happy. At this point, any cheap 4K HDR or even just 4K tv will look insanely better than any 1080p tv. Expensive tv's aren't always the best for gaming as well, you may check and search about this list for HDMI 2.1, but not that some aren't supporting 100% features. So far I know LG C9, B9 and Sony HX90 that will support full HDMI 2.1 features:

▶ HDMI 2.1 TVs:
LG: C9, G9, W9, Z9, CX, GX, WX, XZ + 2020 NanoCell TVs.
Samsung: Q70T, Q80T, Q90T, Q90R, Q95T, Q800T, Q900TS, Q950TS
Sony: Z8H, X900H
Other: TCL & Vizio and more brands are adding HDMI 2.1 TVs this year.

But even HDMI 2.0 4K HDR will make you 90% satisfied. You don't need to pay the extra money for that remaining 10% if you think it's in the expensive range, as most games will still be targeting 30/60fps.
 
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solidsheelop

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Indeed, what you see is most likely 25% of the actual graphics intended for the same tv size. If you are happy with what you got imagine you get the same graphics 4x sharper and cleaner. 4K TV's make 1080p look even better if you still wanna play at 1080p for example, when upgraded from my 37" 2007 1080p LCD LG to 55" 2015 4K LCD LG games looked way, way more better and sharper on PS4. Then went to Sony 55" 2016 4K HDR LCD LED (DX70) with PS4 Pro games looked miles better! Small text are very visible and readable, especially that the shift happened in the middle of playing Watch Dogs 2 and the difference is staggering.

8K are even much more better than 4K, problem is we don't have enough content to justify their expensive pricetags, so leave them until 2024-2025 until microLED hits the market, the perfect, flawless tv tech.

If you have a tight budget, you can tell us your max/min and ideal price and size, and we'll try our best to help you pick what suits you and makes you happy. At this point, any cheap 4K HDR or even just 4K tv will look insanely better than any 1080p tv. Expensive tv's aren't always the best for gaming as well, you may check and search about this list for HDMI 2.1, but not that some aren't supporting 100% features. So far I know LG C9, B9 and Sony HX90 that will support full HDMI 2.1 features:

▶ HDMI 2.1 TVs:
LG: C9, G9, W9, Z9, CX, GX, WX, XZ + 2020 NanoCell TVs.
Samsung: Q70T, Q80T, Q90T, Q90R, Q95T, Q800T, Q900TS, Q950TS
Sony: Z8H, X900H
Other: TCL & Vizio and more brands are adding HDMI 2.1 TVs this year.

But even HDMI 2.0 4K HDR will make you 90% satisfied. You don't need to pay the extra money for that remaining 10% if you think it's in the expensive range, as most games will still be targeting 30/60fps.
wow thanks a lot for the reply. it's funny I picked up a cheap 4k tv over black Friday from best buy ($150, 50" -can't remember the brand) but returned it when the guy at best buy said he believed my plasma was likely better lol. I have a PS4 pro too....

Anyway, I make decent money but still am money conscious and would like to stay under $700. I'll spend more, within reason, for quality/future-proofing (i.e. HDMI 2.1) Satisfied with 50" give or take a couple.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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wow thanks a lot for the reply. it's funny I picked up a cheap 4k tv over black Friday from best buy ($150, 50" -can't remember the brand) but returned it when the guy at best buy said he believed my plasma was likely better lol. I have a PS4 pro too....

Anyway, I make decent money but still am money conscious and would like to stay under $700. I'll spend more, within reason, for quality/future-proofing (i.e. HDMI 2.1) Satisfied with 50" give or take a couple.
That's sweet! You know what's my advice? Sony X900H is now $999 at full price fo 55". Wait until Black Friday or even early 2021 to have it around $700 or even less!


By then, you will have seen the reviews of its performance with PS5 and HDMI 2.1, now there are no HDMI 2.1 reviews as the firmware update hasn't been released yet.

Put in mind that only 65-85" sizes of that model have Acoustic Multi-Audio™, but not the 55" model:

Sound on conventional TVs that have a speaker located below the screen is often out of sync with the picture. Our Acoustic Multi-Audio™ includes two sound-positioning tweeters at the back of the TV that enable sound to follow the action, for a truly immersive experience.


I personally don't care about that, I always use headests/headphones for gaming/PC/Netflix all the time. But if you're a fan of that or even surround system setup then it should be very important for The Tempest 3D Audio in PS5.





This following tech is mentioned on XH95 (X950H), not sure if it'll be available on XH90 (X900H) as well. Timestamped:

 
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Bo_Hazem

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really appreciate the suggestion and time/effort into your responses. I'll keep that tv in mind when I start really shopping around. I plan to wait for a sale and or black Friday for sure
That's what forums are made for, to help each other and share thoughts.:messenger_winking: Glad to help, it's a very confusing decision to be honest, as there is no 100% perfect TV yet until microLED hits the market around PS5 Pro release, I guess.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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Posted 3 hours ago by Vincent!



Description:

We unbox the Sony XH90 (also marketed as the Bravia X900H in the USA) 4K LED LCD TV, which should be able to support all the key features of HDMI 2.1 (4k@120Hz, ALLM, VRR, eARC) after a firmware update later in the year. We also go through the picture settings in the user menu to see what's different from the step-up Sony XH95 (X950H). Our Bravia XH90 review sample is the 75-inch Sony KD-75XH9005 which is the UK 3-pin-plug version.
Really look forward to his review.

I will try to get a couple of pictures up Sunday night of my 65"
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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So hard to capture pics on my iPhone and unless someone is looking at them on a great display doesn’t do them justice either. A couple of more shots here from that Hisense 65 H9G.

 
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