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[Dhruv_hanom]

''You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villian.''

Perfect quote

Mods are already being culled from the Nexus.

What why?

 

[mercenar1e]

I love Origin and GoG.

Spoiler

Fuck Uplay though.

At this rate, it won't be long until Steam ask for monthly subscription, right?

One downside for GOG is that they do not store the receipts/order information for anything on the website.. I recently cancelled a pre order using a PayPal account I deleted months ago which I explained in the ticket and they didn't bother with any sort of refund and instead removed the game from my account and closed the ticket lol

I'll most likely never use them again.

 

[mrklaw]

can you still give away mods in steam for free? You're not forced to charge, right? You just can't have a donate button?

if so, why not simply still give away your mod for free like you did before, still on steam so you get a large addressable audience - then have donation links elsewhere, like on your website or on forum threads for your mod - many of which are very active. I don't think that many people stumble across a good mod on steam workshop by accident - popular mods get traffic driven to them from external recommendations so you can grab donations from there instead. Just use steam as one distribution mechanism

 

[antisoulless]

That's kind of bull...
I mean these are the guys making this game better. Improving every corner, every inch of it. It should be 25% Bethesda and Valve.

 

[GHG]

The competition aren't offering anything similar to a steam workshop.

Fuck the steam workshop. Seriously, fuck it. Especially if this is the direction it's heading in.

 

[Mushroomer25]

can you still give away mods in steam for free? You're not forced to charge, right? You just can't have a donate button?

if so, why not simply still give away your mod for free like you did before, still on steam so you get a large addressable audience - then have donation links elsewhere, like on your website or on forum threads for your mod - many of which are very active. I don't think that many people stumble across a good mod on steam workshop by accident - popular mods get traffic driven to them from external recommendations so you can grab donations from there instead. Just use steam as one distribution mechanism

All of that is still entirely doable.

The concern here is in the (unconfirmed) situation of Steam actively removing a donation link from a mod, essentially bullying the modder into using their tools - which pay the modder 1/4th of that donation.

We do not have confirmation that this is actually happening. It is 1AM PST on the night of one of the most controversial gaming stories of the year so far. The grain of salt next to this situation is the size of Texas.

 

[dex3108]

can you still give away mods in steam for free? You're not forced to charge, right? You just can't have a donate button?

if so, why not simply still give away your mod for free like you did before, still on steam so you get a large addressable audience - then have donation links elsewhere, like on your website or on forum threads for your mod - many of which are very active. I don't think that many people stumble across a good mod on steam workshop by accident - popular mods get traffic driven to them from external recommendations so you can grab donations from there instead. Just use steam as one distribution mechanism

For the same reason you mentioned visibility. Chances that majority of Mod users will visit external link to find out Donate button are very small.

 

[catmario]

Is this real?! If so, this is really bad. They should have remain that to offer various options for this situation.

 

[Poetic.Injustice]

Perfect quote



What why?

Modders who want their mods paid for will already start removing them from the nexus.

 

[Shuggananas]

They should instead prohibit betting sites about their esports games (CSGO and dota)

 

[RinShirika]

One downside for GOG is that they do not store the receipts/order information for anything on the website.. I recently cancelled a pre order using a PayPal account I deleted months ago which I explained in the ticket and they didn't bother with any sort of refund and instead removed the game from my account and closed the ticket lol

I'll most likely never use them again.

Whats this bs? If you ask them to change username or anything they ask for receipts/order information for proof that you are the owner.. so they clearly store them

 

[JimmyRustler]

Wow, Valve does get incredibly greedy. Wish GoG would expand their offer to more current games. I'd only buy from them.

 

[Frodo]

So, mods fix the broken mess Skyrim is and Valve and Bethesda get 75% just for distributing it? On top of that they can't have links directing users to donate?

My admiration for Valve going further down the drain everyday...

 

[bounchfx]

I find it interesting that no one bat an eye at TF2/Dota for valve taking 75% the past few years but this is now blowing up

my guess would be it's because no one needed valve to distribute the mods prior to this. It would be cool to have valve reconsider

 

[Dhruv_hanom]

Modders who want their mods paid for will already start removing them from the nexus.

Oh I get it now.

 

[OtisInf]

What..Why ? I can understand the Payment on Mods but getting rid of Donations seems alittle weird.

Simple: if there are no donations, the only way to get money from your work at the Workshop is by using the Paid option. Which makes Valve more money (as they didn't get a dime through the donations).

I think it's reasonable if a modder wants to charge some money for their work, after all they invested a lot of time in creating new content. However I find it unreasonable that Valve (and whoever is riding with them on this) takes the majority cut: the money paid isn't going to the mod authors mostly, it's going to Valve instead. There are other issues with the way Valve is doing this (e.g. licensing issues with 3rd party elements used in paid mods, guarantee that the work users paid for is working properly (a lot of mods can cause CTDs)), so I hope Nexus stays around for a while.

Removing the donations option removes a choice for modders to get some money for their hard work. They can always publish on Nexus and add a paypal button (or whatever Nexus allows) but Workshop is a system that most users will run into when they buy the game, not Nexus. Add to that the exclusive content on Workshop which isn't published on Nexus (either because the author was banned or they hate Nexus for whatever reason) and you have a tough situation for both users who just want to add some community made content and also modders who might have no other choice but to either give their work for free or go with the Valve scam system (I call it a scam, 75% is way too much)

 

[Bumpers]

Steam Workshop was an amazing idea, one of the best ideas I think Valve had ever done. It has worked brilliantly for games like Civilization V, Garry's Mod, and especially Cities: Skylines. Hassle free mod installs and uninstalls at the click of a button.

Looks like the joke of Valve creating paid mods will be more common again.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I find it interesting that no one bat an eye at TF2/Dota for valve taking 75% the past few years but this is now blowing up

my guess would be it's because no one needed valve to distribute the mods prior to this. It would be cool to have valve reconsider

Part of the issue is that TF2/DOTA microtransactions were cosmetic. Skyrim mods literally change the game, almost entirely for the better, especially when you consider how bug-ridden and broken Elder Scrolls games can be on release.

 

[Hektor]

I find it interesting that no one bat an eye at TF2/Dota for valve taking 75% the past few years but this is now blowing up

my guess would be it's because no one needed valve to distribute the mods prior to this. It would be cool to have valve reconsider

Because valve actually provided a service with those games. Now they're only offering a storefront. It's fair that valve takes such a high cut on TF2/Dota2 hats because no one would buy those community made hats if valve wouldnt continuously develop and expand those games.

With mods its basically the exact other way around, people keep buying skyrim because of the ridiculous amount of mods. It's the exact opposite situation.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

The majority of the mods for Bethesda games is not even worth anything, most of them is just horse armor-like mods or simple lines of code, scripts or animations. Now, I don't really hate the fact that we need to pay for mods now, damn, I'm actually willing to support mods like Interesting NPC's for example (but not through Steam and by paying Valve and Bethesda) cuz this mod is just masterpiece. Authors of this mod put a lot of time and work into it and it's not just a simple reskin or shity cosmetic stuff, this mod contains tons of new characters which are not only fully voice acted, but also have very well writen dialogues, personality and personal quests, not to mention unexpected and very well put together quests which you will find here and there scattered all over the map. Now this is what I call a good mod worth payng for and support, unfortunately there's very few mods like Interesting NPC's.

Here's the link to official site of this mod btw: http://3dnpc.com/

 

[Holundrian]

I find it interesting that no one bat an eye at TF2/Dota for valve taking 75% the past few years but this is now blowing up

my guess would be it's because no one needed valve to distribute the mods prior to this. It would be cool to have valve reconsider

People probably draw a line with this stuff happening for free to play games. Which seems easier to swallow. Compared to this stuff happening to a game they payed for.

Also it's not like there was a thriving community for TF2 and Dota giving you free hats and fixing stuff before. While the Elder Scrolls games have pretty much thrived on the "mod community will fix this shit and bring the game form 90-95% to a 100%.

 

[Intheflorsh]

can you still give away mods in steam for free? You're not forced to charge, right? You just can't have a donate button?

if so, why not simply still give away your mod for free like you did before, still on steam so you get a large addressable audience - then have donation links elsewhere, like on your website or on forum threads for your mod - many of which are very active. I don't think that many people stumble across a good mod on steam workshop by accident - popular mods get traffic driven to them from external recommendations so you can grab donations from there instead. Just use steam as one distribution mechanism

I don't think this is as true as it once was, Valve has made it incredibly convenient to find/share/rate mods via the workshop. The average user probably has no need to step outside of valve's ecosystem.

Besides, the fact that modders can ask for donations externally doesn't justify Valve imposing this problem.

 

[Bumpers]

I find it interesting that no one bat an eye at TF2/Dota for valve taking 75% the past few years but this is now blowing up

my guess would be it's because no one needed valve to distribute the mods prior to this. It would be cool to have valve reconsider

Dota/TF2 items aren't'

1) Early access
2) Game breaking
3) Gameplay changing
4) Game modifying
5) Incompatible with one another.
6) Reliant on other instances

 

[Mushroomer25]

Because valve actually provided a service with those games. Now they're only offering a storefront. It's fair that valve takes such a high cut on TF2/Dota2 hats because no one would buy those community made hats if valve wouldnt continuously develop and expand those games.

With mods its basically the exact other way around, people keep buying skyrim because of the ridiculous amount of mods. It's the exact opposite situation.

The fact still stands that these mods hold zero value without Bethesda's original work.

Honestly, the solution to this should've been Bethesda offering a $200 version of Skyrim that gave express permission to use the software for business purposes. But I imagine the legal challenges that traditionally come about when writing tax software weren't present during the development period.

 

[cdyhybrid]

The fact still stands that these mods hold zero value without Bethesda's original work.

Honestly, the solution to this should've been Bethesda offering a $200 version of Skyrim that gave express permission to use the software for business purposes. But I imagine the legal challenges that traditionally come about when writing tax software weren't present during the development period.

Bethesda was compensated for their original work when the user paid $60 for Skyrim, and more for the DLCs.

 

[Bumpers]

Honestly, the solution to this should've been Bethesda offering a $200 version of Skyrim that gave express permission to use the software for business purposes. But I imagine the legal challenges that traditionally come about when writing tax software weren't present during the development period.

Mods were never previously used for commercial gain. A donation is not a formal charge.

 

[Keyser Soze]

''You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villian.''

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

 

[HariKari]

Why didn't they go with a backer system ala Patreon where people donate using their Steam wallet once or even recurring to modders they like? Too hard for Valve and Bethesda to take a cut?

 

[bounchfx]

Dota/TF2 items aren't'

1) Early access
2) Game breaking
3) Gameplay changing
4) Game modifying
5) Incompatible with one another.
6) Reliant on other instances

very good point, it's super interesting reading how crazy complex this is compared to the other workshops. I'm not sure these points really have much significance when talking about the % split between valve and the content creators however, outside of maybe the fact that they have greater potential to change the base game.

It's gonna be really interesting to see how valve/beth responds! I imagine they almost have due to the reception. After it cools down a bit maybe, haha.

Also it's not like there was a thriving community for TF2 and Dota giving you free hats and fixing stuff before. While the Elder Scrolls games have pretty much thrived on the "mod community will fix this shit and bring the game form 90-95% to a 100%.

also an excellent point!

Because valve actually provided a service with those games. Now they're only offering a storefront. It's fair that valve takes such a high cut on TF2/Dota2 hats because no one would buy those community made hats if valve wouldnt continuously develop and expand those games.

With mods its basically the exact other way around, people keep buying skyrim because of the ridiculous amount of mods. It's the exact opposite situation.

this is the biggest difference I see, it definitely helps justify their share as opposed to what theyre doing with this

 

[Zolo]

Valve doesn't like alternative pay systems. They got into that dispute with Dragon Age II and Origin being accessible from the game if I remember right.

Edit: Later reply since I wasn't too knowledgable in this.

That was due to DA2 DLC having to be purchased from inside the game rather than Valve's storefront. To be fair EA would have known what they were doing with this.

 

[Killer]

perfect lmao.

 

[Havik]

A 50/50 cut for user created content seems pretty standard but for steam there is another party involved that also wants a piece of the pie.

It's kinda unfair that is completely taken from the content creator tho, the publisher will get alot more exposure through steam so it seems fair they will also pay some of the extra costs.

 

[Bumpers]

Valve doesn't like alternative pay systems. They got into that dispute with Dragon Age II and Origin being accessible from the game if I remember right.

That was due to DA2 DLC having to be purchased from inside the game rather than Valve's storefront. To be fair EA would have known what they were doing with this.

 

[Mavromatis]

I wonder if Valve can remove as link to the creators web site where there is a donation link.

 

[HariKari]

I wonder if Valve can remove as link to the creators web site where there is a donation link.

They can consider it a TOS violation and suspend your mod, or refuse to give you payment. This is the danger of having one very powerful platform and nothing to stop them. The Nexus is already shriveling up.

 

[Velurian]

Those % feel unjust.
I feel 50% creator and 25% Valve + 25% Bethesda would make more sense.
I hope they will not attack sites like Nexus next although I find it difficult imagine a scenario where a modder would pick to publish his/her stuff on Nexus for free in comparison to publishing it on the workshop for a 25% cut. 25 % is better than nothing and I guess Valve and Bethesda follow that logic. Modder has nothing to loose with the workshop model.

 

[StoppedInTracks]

"Don't be evil."

-- G

Spoiler

od damn you Valve ;_;

 

[Qvoth]

I was indifferent with the paid mods thing but this removal of links is pretty scummy no matter how you see it

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Only getting 25% of the sales is pretty bad deal if you ask me

Yup. Super scummy.

 

[Mavromatis]

I wish Steam followed the Humble Bundle's method for cutting the pie.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Mods were never previously used for commercial gain. A donation is not a formal charge.

Exactly. Had they had the magical foresight to see how their game would be used in 2015 - it would have made sense to account for people charging for mods. But previous to today, it's always been a donation-based community (which isn't worth going after).

 

[PetriP-TNT]

Getting a 25% cut for being a 3rd party provider for something that is not your product is INSANELY high except for apparently bideo james mods

 

[HariKari]

I wish Steam followed the Humble Bundle's method for cutting the pie.

Well if everyone started giving the modder 100%, there'd be no incentive for Valve to provide the service someone will say. Ignoring that Valve benefits tremendously in terms of sales ( along with the publisher ) when games have workshop support, and that they've comfortably provided it all for free up until now.

There's nothing stopping Bethesda or Valve from picking winners and losers either. There's money involved now. They can promote the most expensive mods, shut down mods that they don't like. The jig is up.

 

[Shuggananas]

I'm OK with valve taking 25% but bethesda taking 50% for releasing a broken game that needs to be fixed ? Con fuckign gratys

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Steam Workshop was an amazing idea, one of the best ideas I think Valve had ever done. It has worked brilliantly for games like Civilization V, Garry's Mod, and especially Cities: Skylines. Hassle free mod installs and uninstalls at the click of a button.

Looks like the joke of Valve creating paid mods will be more common again.

On the other hand, it is generally regarded as the inferior mod distribution network for Skyrim, and it's integration into the game launcher has negatives for stability and compatibility that outweigh its positives (which is pretty much limited to auto-updating, which even then is more of a mixed blessing).

Here's what I imagine Bethesda's logic is.

Buying a copy of Skyrim does not give you the right to use it for profit. It's for personal use. Not business use. Same logic behind buying the licence rights to production software (personal vs business). There's literally no way they could have seen this coming, so the only way to get their fair share is via cuts of mod sales.

Additionally, the mod is worthless without their existing game. It is an extension of their existing software and code. Steam also feels entitled to a cut as the retailer who handles the transaction.

Hypothetically, they believe a mod sold elsewhere for the same price would do less than a fourth of the sales. Thus, the 25% cut is fair.


Is it actually? Time will tell. But I bet you that is the logic that led to that particular decision.

The fact still stands that these mods hold zero value without Bethesda's original work.

Honestly, the solution to this should've been Bethesda offering a $200 version of Skyrim that gave express permission to use the software for business purposes. But I imagine the legal challenges that traditionally come about when writing tax software weren't present during the development period.

I might be misinterpreting your posts but it seems as though you're approaching this like Bethesda were surprised about mods for Skyrim. People have been modding their games for over a decade and Bethesda releases official tools to support the ecosystem. People weren't selling mods before this, only allowing people to donate to them if they appreciated a free mod. Now that Valve and Bethesda have decided that they want to monetise these community efforts, they are taking steps to eliminate sources of revenue for modders that they do not get a cut of. The question now is what becomes of other mod distribution networks like Nexus where Valve/Bethesda don't have the authority to remove donation options. Will future Fallout/Elder Scrolls titles be locked down to force modders onto the Steam Workshop?

 

[YuberMcGruber]

Here's what I imagine Bethesda's logic is.

Buying a copy of Skyrim does not give you the right to use it for profit. It's for personal use. Not business use. Same logic behind buying the licence rights to production software (personal vs business). There's literally no way they could have seen this coming, so the only way to get their fair share is via cuts of mod sales.

Additionally, the mod is worthless without their existing game. It is an extension of their existing software and code. Steam also feels entitled to a cut as the retailer who handles the transaction.

Hypothetically, they believe a mod sold elsewhere for the same price would do less than a fourth of the sales. Thus, the 25% cut is fair.


Is it actually? Time will tell. But I bet you that is the logic that led to that particular decision.

You've hit the nail on the head there, it still sucks, but it makes sense

 

[Alienous]

Shit, Fallout 4 must be an expensive game to make.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

I'm OK with valve taking 25%

Yes but do you make mods?

 

[Caayn]

Wow that's just scummy. You either give us money and we'll give you a small piece of the pie or you don't get anything at all.