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[Mysterious]

Genuine question: why do game streamers need donations?

I thought they had a primary job and this was just a neat fun thing they do on the side.

You're telling a 14-year-old to get a job?

I got a job at McDonald's at 15.

 

[Orayn]

Genuine question: why do game streamers need donations?

I thought they had a primary job and this was just a neat fun thing they do on the side.

Why do people try to make money from YouTube? It's just silly videos you watch on the internet.

The answer is that people are willing to pay you for something you do if it entertains them and you give them the option.

 

[sakipon]

I find this hilarious.
No, not that anyone is getting charged back or anything.
No what's hilarious is that there are people with the opinion that people who stream for donations as their job, should just suck it up and get a real job, when this is the very foundation of sports, which has more money than could ever be sensible being thrown at it.

Now please, someone walk up to some random sports super star, AND TELL THEM TO GET A REAL JOB.

Being physically fit and able to compete the best athletes is a bit different than a guy playing games and bothering others with constant donation begging. Everyone can do whatever they want but comparing them to sports stars is a bit out there.

 

[Mysterious]

Why do people try to make money from YouTube? It's just silly videos you watch on the internet.

The answer is that people are willing to pay you for something you do if it entertains them and you give them the option.

But a lot of YouTube personalities make their revenue through ads (i.e. views), much like how a website like NeoGAF or IGN generates revenue through ads. Isn't Twitch owned by Google, and don't they also have advertisements? If so, why are additional donations necessary?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Being physically fit and able to compete the best athletes is a bit different than a guy playing games and bothering others with constant donation begging. Everyone can do whatever they want but comparing them to sports stars is a bit out there.

This is implying that streamers constantly beg for donations. Um no. Most actually don't constantly beg for donations. Yes there are people out there who will constantly reference their donation button. But those are few and far between. I get the feeling that people who don't watch twitch streams assume that streamers sit there and every two minutes ask for a donation.

 

[Mysterious]

Not refunding the money to the griefers in the first place?

How are the griefers even justifying the chargebacks to PayPal in the first place? Hasn't the "product" already been delivered? Can I buy I PS4, and then just call up PayPal two months later and tell them I don't feel like paying for it after all, and that's that?

Product?

If a child uses his parents' credit card information to buy unauthorized in-app or app purchases, Apple will refund it. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft have similar policies too. This is a kid using his parents' (or someone else's credit card).

 

[ZServ]

But a lot of YouTube personalities make their revenue through ads (i.e. views), much like how a website like NeoGAF or IGN generates revenue through ads. Isn't Twitch owned by Google, and don't they also have advertisements? If so, why are additional donations necessary?

Because you don't get paid for ad views. It just doesn't happen.

The only way you make money on twitch is by becoming a "partner" and then you get a tiny tiny tiny portion of ad revenue from your page and people can "subscribe" which is essentially a donate button.

Genuine question: why do game streamers need donations?

I thought they had a primary job and this was just a neat fun thing they do on the side.

I got a job at McDonald's at 15.

You may forget that child labor laws can be strict as hell. For example, in Ohio, you can't work more than 3 hours on a school day, and you can't work before 7AM or after 9PM. Then, you get into this:

PROHIBITED OCCUPATIONS FOR MINORS UNDER 16 YEARS OF AGE
1. All manufacturing; mining; processing; public messenger service
2. Work in freezers and meat coolers and all preparation of meats for sale (except wrapping, sealing, labeling, weighing, pricing and stocking)
3. Transportation; storage; communications; public utilities; construction; repair
4. Work in boiler or engine rooms; maintenance or repair of machinery
5. Outside window washing from window sills or scaffolding and/or ladders
6. Cooking and baking; operating, setting up, adjusting, cleaning, oiling or repairing power-driven food slicers, grinders, food choppers, cutters, bakery type mixers
7. Loading or unloading goods to and from trucks
8. All warehouse work except office and clerical
9. Work in connection with cars and trucks involving the use of pits, racks or lifting apparatus or involving the inflation of any tire mounted on a rim equipped with a removable retaining ring

so on and so forth.

The idea of "go get a job" seems simple until you realize not everyone is in the same area, or situation, and thus not all are able to do so.

 

[Sayad]

Thanks for the info. This supports what I'm saying -- there's no actual reason PayPal has to push this cost onto the person who experienced a fraudulent charge.

But then they'd open a loophole as easy to exploit as getting two accounts, bumping money into one then charging back with the other.

 

[Mysterious]

I'm sure you started using PayPal at 14 and had people scam you with fake donations, right?

When I was 15, Netflix double charged me. A ToysRUs refund didn't actually come back to me. These were both through PayPal. I contacted my bank, who told me to call PayPal and they did fuck all. A year or two later, my bank randomly refunds me after their investigation.

When individuals advertize they are demonized, but when corporations do it, spending millions to do it likely, it's viewed as acceptable and a part of business. People tune in for ads during the super bowl, and all it is, is a company trying to get your money.

With one, a person is just trying to get by, with another, the one percent are becoming richer (obviously not always the case, but still).

I have no problem with it. If one doesn't like it, they can watch somebody else.

OP "is just trying to get by" by including (naked?) anime pillows in his Amazon wish list?

 

[Orayn]

But a lot of YouTube personalities make their revenue through ads (i.e. views), much like how a website like NeoGAF or IGN generates revenue through ads. Isn't Twitch owned by Google, and don't they also have advertisements? If so, why are additional donations necessary?

Twitch isn't owned by Google, but it does have its own partner program where streamers can make money from ads. The partner program is pretty hard to get into, however, so a lot of smaller streamers accept donations.

 

[fanboi]

People in this thread...

 

[Mysterious]

Twitch isn't owned by Google, but it does have its own partner program where streamers can make money from ads. The partner program is pretty hard to get into, however, so a lot of smaller streamers accept donations.

Twitch is owned by Google.

Fake Edit: The deal isn't finalized yet.

 

[CLBridges]

Man, that's pretty messed up to do those streamers like that. I stream very rarely but have a donation button setup because, why not? I mean, if someone just so happens to be feeling generous then I'm always open to extra funds.

I don't ask for donations during stream nor would I ever. And, the streams I view on occasion the streamer never asks/begs for donations. The most I ever hear from non partnered people is for a follow.

Guess this is a lesson for everyone to hold on to donated funds for awhile, sorry those select few had to experience it.

 

[charlequin]

Being physically fit and able to compete the best athletes is a bit different than a guy playing games and bothering others with constant donation begging.

It's not particularly different, actually, and also this "bothering others with constant donation begging" is something that you invented which has no relation to the situation we're discussing.

But then they'd open a loophole as easy to exploit as getting two accounts, bumping money into one then charging back with the other.

If that's the risk, it (correctly) puts the onus on PayPal to catch people who are doing that so they aren't defrauded. If someone can scam sellers by buying things then charging back, PayPal doesn't have the necessary incentive to deal with the problem (as, indeed, we are seeing here.)

 

[Mysterious]

It's not particularly different, actually, and also this "bothering others with constant donation begging" is something that you invented which has no relation to the situation we're discussing.



If that's the risk, it (correctly) puts the onus on PayPal to catch people who are doing that so they aren't defrauded. If someone can scam sellers by buying things then charging back, PayPal doesn't have the necessary incentive to deal with the problem (as, indeed, we are seeing here.)

This isn't really a scam though.

scam noun \ˈskam\
: a dishonest way to make money by deceiving people

It's more of a case of a child (less than 18 years old) using his parents' credit cards unauthorized. In these similar (and not so frequent) events, the credit cards do charge backs, the parents get the money back, the vendor (Apple, Microsoft, Nintendo) refund the money but receive the product back, terminate the service and/or evoke the license to use the digital good(s).

 

[Willypiggy]

Not particularly surprised, this is the most common scam in the book and has been going on since I was in high school, I've had it happen to myself through Ebay with legitimate sales and despite having proof the item was sent AND delivered Paypal still sided with the buyer.

This is partly why I like the idea of Bitcoin - every transaction is final and there's no scummy middle man who can reverse transactions months down the line or skimming a profit off the top.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Gosh so many cynical and jaded peeps in here, hahaha.

Don't kid yourself, all of you cynical and jaded peeps; if you can earn money by, say, posting in GAF, you'd bet your asses you will jump on the opportunity.

 

[Ragingnight]

Gosh so many cynical and jaded peeps in here, hahaha.

Don't kid yourself, all of you cynical and jaded peeps; if you can earn money by, say, posting in GAF, you'd bet your asses you will jump on the opportunity.

nope, you will have to get a "real" job. I mean the money might be real but you didn't "earn" it.

whatever the fuck that means.

Lets put it simply. Millions of dollars are being put into the video game streaming industry. There are individuals and teams that make 6 figures from streaming alone. There are youtubers that make 6 figures alone. Is that not a "real" job?

Most of these streamers aren't begging for donations, and in many cases, not the high rollers because the high rollers already have endorsements and subscribers.

 

[Auto-Reply]

Gosh so many cynical and jaded peeps in here, hahaha.

Don't kid yourself, all of you cynical and jaded peeps; if you can earn money by, say, posting in GAF, you'd bet your asses you will jump on the opportunity.

I'm not surprised by people trying to make money with streaming, I'm surprised that people actually give them money.
Admittetly I haven't seen many streams, but they better be competing with siglemic Mario 64 speedruns to justify any donations. It's a strange thought giving a random dude on the internet money because he is regulary playing a game.

 

[Ragingnight]

I'm not surprised by people trying to make money with streaming, I'm surprised that people actually give them money.
Admittetly I haven't seen many streams, but they better competing with siglemic Mario 64 speedruns to justify any donations. It's a strange thought giving a random dude on the internet money because he is regulary playing a game.

some of them have entertaining personalities, or some give in depth game analysis etc etc.

Its all depends on the streamer. Somebody like TSM's Oddone gives indepth jungling tips and thought process of how to play the game which people find invaluable.

Others like their personality such as C9's Hafu. It really just depends.

 

[Crossing Eden]

I'm not surprised by people trying to make money with streaming, I'm surprised that people actually give them money.
Admittetly I haven't seen many streams, but they better be competing with siglemic Mario 64 speedruns to justify any donations. It's a strange thought giving a random dude on the internet money because he is regulary playing a game.

If a streamer is entertaining to people then any donations are justified.

 

[hateradio]

Twitch should probably ban PP or put a strict limit on the amount donators can give and how often.

 

[saunderez]

Twitch should probably ban PP or put a strict limit on the amount donators can give and how often.

It won't stop this from happening. Same thing could and would have happened with credit card.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

nope, you will have to get a "real" job. I mean the money might be real but you didn't "earn" it.

whatever the fuck that means.

As far as I can tell, no job is "real" and no money is "earned" unless the job's perceived enjoyableness is equal to or less than your own and the perceived "work" required is equal to or greater than your own.

 

[Auto-Reply]

If a streamer is entertaining to people then any donations are justified.

While I have to agree with that... there is also the the thought of value proposition and how people spend their money. A guy with a gaming console and a good internet conecction isn't necessarily rich, but he definitely isn't in need of donations also. If you feel like donating your money, aren't there things where it could really make a difference to spend it?
I've probably written myself into a corner with that as there are many examples of people spending their money on far more useless stuff but that's my initial feeling on the matter.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

A guy with a gaming console and a good internet conecction isn't necessarily rich, but he definitely isn't in need of donations also.

I stream fighting game tournaments as a hobby. I've sunk literally thousands of dollars into my setup, although a portion of it is multi-purpose and gets used for my own enjoyment elsewhere. The most I get officially paid at events only covers lodging, entry into the event itself, and 4G data to stream with.

The only extra income related to this comes from Youtube ads, and the only reason I haven't set up a donation link on Twitch is because I've just been too lazy to do it. It's not a money-making venture for me (and I'm okay with that), but I feel like I'd be more than entitled to make a little more money back for the effort I put into it.

 

[Mr. Enigma]

People who depend on donations are a joke. Sorry but I feel nothing for that 14 year old getting charged back. This is like first world problems.

Stream your games if you wish and get a job.

Telling a 14-year-old to get a job is so bad ass.

 

[Crossing Eden]

While I have to agree with that... there is also the the thought of value proposition and how people spend their money. A guy with a gaming console and a good internet conecction isn't necessarily rich, but he definitely isn't in need of donations also. If you feel like donating your money, aren't there things where it could really make a difference to spend it?
I've probably written myself into a corner with that as there are many examples of people spending their money on far more useless stuff but that's my initial feeling on the matter.

It's an act of kindness. People should be allowed to decide where to spend their disposable income, and we have no idea if those people also donate to charity.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

People actually pay money to watch other people play video games? Huh. Making online donations your primary source of income is probably not a good idea.

 

[depward]

Crazy. Feel bad for those who have account issues solely based on these transactions.

I find it just crazy though that some of these streamers are ~14 year olds. That playing games is a source of a small not livable but at least something income. Really just feeds the system of this teen video game fueled society that we have if they can earn money.

 

[Klyka]

I would never ever accept a donation for my stream.
I will also never partner or play ads on either my youtube or my twitch.

I do it for fun, money is of no interest to me.

 

[the_batman]

I would never ever accept a donation for my stream.
I will also never partner or play ads on either my youtube or my twitch.

I do it for fun, money is of no interest to me.

you must have a real job.

 

[Radec]

http://www.twitch.tv/goodideagaming

That's the only guy that I gave a donation of all twitch channels I'm following.

He's rude, racist, and blatant on donations, and I fucking laugh my ass off everytime I tuned in.

I think people raised $2000 for him to show his face (after they funded his webcam)

 

[Ramenman]

He could do chores and lawns for neighbors. Stupid kids want everything easy these days. They should earn their money, not sit on their asses and play games while they e-beg for money. Serves them right IMO.

Because doing something you like for a living isn't possible right. Because anything that isn't a dumb chore isn't hard work right and is not "earning" money right.

I'm sorry you seem to be stuck in a life where you have to do a work you hate to keep on living but don't act like if you're not mowing lawns then you're not working.

 

[Forkball]

I think even at 14 I would have been suspicious if I magically got $700.

I also can't believe Paypal allows you to cancel your transaction after that length of time. This is why I pretty much never use Paypal, there's too many issues and incidents just waiting to happen.

 

[Klyka]

you must have a real job.

I don't know about "real" but I have a job I go to,work at and get paid for.

It's just my personal decision. I don't want to make money with it and if I did, it would not be through donations.
Even in my job I feel terrible when someone gives me a tip cause I am just doing my job,there is nothing special about it and I don't like getting free handouts. It feels cheap and puts down my own feel of self worth. If I have something,I like to have earned it.

 

[Canis lupus]

It is wrong that a 14 year old asks donations for streaming his games and that Paypal allows these type of transactions to be made.

Young people need to learn how to make real money in real life, and if they're getting conditioned that playing videogames earns them large amount of money, it'll likely affect their education and their perception on the value of money. You can't depend on streaming your whole life.

 

[GECK]

I think even at 14 I would have been suspicious if I magically got $700.

I also can't believe Paypal allows you to cancel your transaction after that length of time. This is why I pretty much never use Paypal, there's too many issues and incidents just waiting to happen.

Pretty much. Paypal has been around for a long time and the risks are well known.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

It is wrong that a 14 year old asks donations for streaming his games and that Paypal allows these type of transactions to be made.

Young people need to learn how to make real money in real life, and if they're getting conditioned that playing videogames earns them large amount of money, it'll likely affect their education and their perception on the value of money. You can't depend on streaming your whole life.

What's real money and real life anyway? I don't see any harm with a 14 year old actually making videos and using donations to fund his video making and himself. If I had a kid like him I would say that he's rather enterprising? How do you know the kid thinks that streaming is going to provide for the rest of his life? For every kid (or any streamer of any age for that matter) that succeeds in making this a career, many thousands fail. There are many reasons why the audience chooses to watch streamer A rather than the other 1000s that failed. Wouldn't you say that Streamer A is doing something right and possibly learning experiences and skills that would help him or her in whatever he/she wants to do in the future? You're making it seem like income is guaranteed and that video making is easy. I don't think it is. So long as whatever they're doing is not illegal or harming anyone, why stop someone from doing what they're good at? Why even say it's not a legitimate way of earning money?

 

[Sheroking]

It is wrong that a 14 year old asks donations for streaming his games and that Paypal allows these type of transactions to be made.

Young people need to learn how to make real money in real life, and if they're getting conditioned that playing videogames earns them large amount of money, it'll likely affect their education and their perception on the value of money. You can't depend on streaming your whole life.

I'm sorry, but what young people don't need is a clueless NeoGAF poster telling them what they can and can not do with their lives.

Some streamers make thousands a months off of sub renewals and donations. Some are professional gamers, some are high level speed runners. Most are ingrained in their games communities and a lot play with their fans. It's an entertainment product, no more or less legitimate than any other entertainment product, only it's tied right into community. Streaming as a job is a new idea and who knows if it's going to last, but Twitch has grown like crazy over the last couple years and people are already succeeding.

There's no reason this can't be a job for some people.

 

[Mendrox]

People actually pay money to watch other people play video games? Huh. Making online donations your primary source of income is probably not a good idea.

Well no shit. Many of these people get paid a lot more than any of us by doing entertainment business with streaming videogames.

Anybody who thinks that this isn't a real job, should just stop watching TV and every other entertainment series.

I also invested quiet some money for my setup:

El Gato 160€
Logitech C920 70€
Cabels 25€
Microphone 90€
...

Yes I do it for fun, but with what reason shouldn't people get money for it? U are not forced to pay (other than sucky channels which have sub mode only chat lol). And these guys are investing their time to entertain people.

I don't know how so many people are ignorant and think that this is not a job. Minors cannot work everywhere or they live in an area where they can do things like mawing the lawn.

 

[The Technomancer]

I'm not surprised by people trying to make money with streaming, I'm surprised that people actually give them money.
Admittetly I haven't seen many streams, but they better be competing with siglemic Mario 64 speedruns to justify any donations. It's a strange thought giving a random dude on the internet money because he is regulary playing a game.

I'm a Patreon patron for a couple of guys who let's play various games and the patreon situation buys them the financial flexibility to produce more content I enjoy

*shrug*

 

[Klyka]

Honestly, even if I had what it took to become a big streamer (which I am pretty damn sure I do not) I just couldn't handle all the shit you constantly have to go through.
The consistent appealing to people so they keep watching/donating/subscribing.
The constant pressure to stream stream stream and always have your shticks and mood going just the way they want it/like it.
Having to network with others, come up with new stuff to do and to make money with constantly.

It would just take all the fun of games completely out of it. I would feel like a clown on a stage.

I like streaming to the few people that follow me and that I know and who don't mind if I go a whole month without it. But having it be a proper "thing" i need to do? No way.

 

[Lalalandia]

Ignoring the bizarre insistence by some that certain activities must remain 'pure' and untouched by the hand of Mammon I'd just like to throw in my €0.02. My folks had a jewellery store and we had to take the position that any payment from a credit card issuer was in limbo until the charge back period had passed. It's unfortunate but there are a minority of folks who will abuse any chance to get goods for 'free'. Yes we sorted most of these incidents out eventually but we had a non-trivial amount of losses also. PayPal are gits but they're just passing on the charge back from the cc issuer.

Long story short don't trust any credit card or PayPal payment until the charge back period has passed. I agree however that the PP account should have been closed if the allegations of an earlier incident are true, clearly this is a brat abusing his folks cc for a weird kind of fame.

 

[KillerIsJed]

My Amazon wishlist is optional crap for fun, if people want me to have ridiculous things on stream. That and anything they buy there doesn't have a percentage going to paypal / Streamtip.

 

[Kikolool]

Donate for other people's hobbies? Nah thanks. If I donate or invest it is either for my personal use in the end (like Kickstarter) or for real charity.

I mean I also didn't raise donations when I played with my model railway back then. And it was also quite some money that sunk into that.

I mean seriously nobody forces them to buy all that equipment and stream stuff..

 

[espher]

if you're good enough, people will bother you about donating to you. it's not just solicitation, but people pay for entertainment too.

Yep.

I run a niche Rock Band UGC project and have had a surprising number of people offer to donate, despite explicitly stating in the FAQs I don't take donations. Though with some of the hardware issues I've run into lately, I kind of wish I had (I'm doing well enough in my career that I can afford replacements, it's just fiscally inconvenient timing).

 

[frankie_baby]

I do not generally ever watch streaming, but some people actually give money to streamers??? That's just fucked up, seriously just buy some games people

 

[oneils]

Ignoring the bizarre insistence by some that certain activities must remain 'pure' and untouched by the hand of Mammon I'd just like to throw in my €0.02. My folks had a jewellery store and we had to take the position that any payment from a credit card issuer was in limbo until the charge back period had passed. It's unfortunate but there are a minority of folks who will abuse any chance to get goods for 'free'. Yes we sorted most of these incidents out eventually but we had a non-trivial amount of losses also. PayPal are gits but they're just passing on the charge back from the cc issuer.

Long story short don't trust any credit card or PayPal payment until the charge back period has passed. I agree however that the PP account should have been closed if the allegations of an earlier incident are true, clearly this is a brat abusing his folks cc for a weird kind of fame.

People relying on paypal donations as income really should be operating as a retail store of sorts (as explained in the quoted post) and accounting for potential fraud. It is only smart.

I get that a 14 year old streamer won't be sophisticated enough to really do this. I'm guessing that the streamer's paypal account will simply be closed since he is a minor. Sucks, as he won't really be able to accept any more donations, but PayPal does exclude minors from their service.

 

[Wiktor]

Stream your games if you wish and get a job.

He already got a job: streaming games