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[mars_terraforming]

Why the constant need to try and paint GT Sport as a failure?
That was an age where racing games sold far more in the US and Japan. In fact GT3 worldwide was 'the most successful software launch ever with first day sales surpassing those of any other game in history' .

However this has nothing to do with you trying to paint GT Sport as a bomb even specifically mentioning the UK. You said that it 'hurt sony'. It didn't because everyone already knows racing games don't sell like they did in 2001 worldwide anymore most of all Sony. This is a UK sales thread it sold more than some previous entries there. It sold more than GT6 worldwide which had a higher PS3 install base and it had triple the sales of Forza 7. GT sport isn't hurting anyone it is selling as good a racing sim does these days and even more than the install base differences. It's selling more than some previous games in the series. It's doing well.

He even said that FH4 bombed too, well, in other words.

 

[Three]

Low number? It is better than 2017.

PS4 1.1M
Switch 680k
XB1 700k

XB1 sales were down this year? Got to say that's somewhat surprising considering the price cuts at the tail end of 2018 and XB1X being introduced to the market.

XB1X launched mid Dec 2017 so sales must have been frontloaded. What was the figure for 2016?

Edit: come to think of it. Does the tracking period for December align with the calendar month?

 

[Three]

He even said that FH4 bombed too, well, in other words.

I guess it must just be the late realisation of the idea that racing games don't dominate software charts as much as they did in the PS2 era.

 

[TLZ]

Console sales were up 3 percent compared to last year. I think highest for a single console was near 1.5M in a year.

Low number? It is better than 2017.

PS4 1.1M
Switch 680k
XB1 700k

Hmm. I thought UK was the 2nd biggest market for consoles. That's why I'm finding those numbers low.

 

[Three]

Hmm. I thought UK was the 2nd biggest market for consoles. That's why I'm finding those numbers low.

It is but it's a little bit complicated.
Europe is the big market that is close to the US in sales. Europe however is several smaller countries so when you look at an individual European countries sales figures they seem low.

The US has a population of ~325M, UK has ~66M.
In terms of the size of the country the UK punches above its weight. however, I'm not sure if it has the second most consoles sold worldwide (Probably does because places like Russia and Germany are more PC markets)

I do know that the UK did recently become Europe's biggest in terms of video game revenue overall though. VR sector saw the biggest growth and eSports are seeing an increase too.

PwC, a multinational financial services company based out of London, recently published research showing that the UK is now Europe’s largest video games market. With around £5.5 billion predicted to spent in the video game industry in 2020. Two of the biggest growth sectors in the UK are VR and esports. VR is the fastest growing “Entertainment & Media” sector in the UK, with around 34% predicted compounded annual growth. The VR market is forecast to be worth around £1.2 billion by 2022.

 

[underberg]

However this has nothing to do with you trying to paint GT Sport as a bomb even specifically mentioning the UK. You said that it 'hurt sony'. It didn't because everyone already knows racing games don't sell like they did in 2001 worldwide anymore most of all Sony. This is a UK sales thread it sold more than some previous entries there. It sold more than GT6 worldwide which had a higher PS3 install base and it had triple the sales of Forza 7. GT sport isn't hurting anyone it is selling as good a racing sim does these days and even more than the install base differences. It's selling more than some previous games in the series. It's doing well.

The game was selling at £20 a few weeks after launch during holidays. Retailers are NOT slashing the price if a game is selling well and within expectations.

 

[Afro Republican]

What's the highest they sold there in a year?

What consoles? 360 had a year near 5 and the Wii had a year over 5 iirc.

But keep in mind for UK in 2018/19 we are at the end of the gen, don't expect big UK numbers.

 

[Three]

The game was selling at £20 a few weeks after launch during holidays. Retailers are NOT slashing the price if a game is selling well and within expectations.

Sure. It wasn't just retailers slashing prices it reduced on the PlayStation store too. It was because it was part of bundles during the Christmas period. Happened with other bundled games too and there was a price war with Forza 7. However a game being reduced doesn't mean it doesn't sell or sold badly in fact games that have sold a lot become Playstation Platinum Hits and have their price reduced to £15/$20.

Look at amazon's top sellers

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Sellers-PC-Video-Games/zgbs/videogames

The 1 year old game is still up there in the top 100. Gran Turismo is evergreen here, it has legs. You say it's dead. I assume you work at retail? That retail price is even higher than the digital price so assume a lot of people buy digital too.

 

[Afro Republican]

Hmm. I thought UK was the 2nd biggest market for consoles. That's why I'm finding those numbers low.

Again end of gen.

Also there really isn't a country with much better numbers overall outside the US at this point so it doesn't rebuke UK being a big console market either.

 

[underberg]

Sure. It wasn't just retailers slashing prices it reduced on the PlayStation store too. It was because it was part of bundles during the Christmas period. Happened with other bundled games too and there was a price war with Forza 7. However a game being reduced doesn't mean it doesn't sell or sold badly in fact games that have sold a lot become Playstation Platinum Hits and have their price reduced to £15/$20.

Look at amazon's top sellers

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Best-Sellers-PC-Video-Games/zgbs/videogames

The 1 year old game is still up there in the top 100. Gran Turismo is evergreen here, it has legs. You say it's dead. I assume you work at retail? That retail price is even higher than the digital price so assume a lot of people buy digital too.

Retailers were slashing the price to £20 or so. That wasn't the same price cut it got on PS Store.

Platinum Hits are released at least a year after launch when games have already sold big amounts at full price.

GT Sports was overshipped and retailers couldn't sell copies at full price.

 

[Three]

Retailers were slashing the price to £20 or so. That wasn't the same price cut it got on PS Store.

Platinum Hits are released at least a year after launch when games have already sold big amounts at full price.

GT Sports was overshipped and retailers couldn't sell copies at full price.

Price on the store was the same a week later. I bought retail when it was that price then saw a similar digital price a week later and wished I had bought digital. It now is lower on the PlayStation store than at retail yet it is still selling at retail
https://store.playstation.com/en-gb/product/EP9001-CUSA02168_00-GTSPORT000000000

 

[underberg]

Price on the store was the same a week later. I bought retail when it was that price then saw a similar digital price a week later and wished I had bought digital. It now is lower on the PlayStation store than at retail yet it is still selling at retail
https://store.playstation.com/en-gb/product/EP9001-CUSA02168_00-GTSPORT000000000

Jeez, I'm talking about LAUNCH WINDOW. GTS price was slashed a few weeks after launch at the end of 2017.

 

[Three]

Jeez, I'm talking about LAUNCH WINDOW. GTS price was slashed a few weeks after launch at the end of 2017.

So am I if you are talking about the price cut and when I bought it.

https://psprices.com/region-gb/game/1791496/gran-turismotm-sport

It got a similar pricecut on the PlayStation store during launch window.
Amazon was selling it at around 25 pounds in November and 3rd party sellers selling unopened console bundle copies from black Friday at slightly less.

https://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/Play...rismo-Sport/product/B00ZG1SVA4?context=search

I was just telling right now digital is less than retail yet the game still isn't 'dead' as you suggested. Even at retails higher price as you can see in the bestsellers list on amazon.co.uk.

 

[underberg]

So am I if you are talking about the price cut and when I bought it.

https://psprices.com/region-gb/game/1791496/gran-turismotm-sport

It got a similar pricecut on the PlayStation store during launch window.
Amazon was selling it at around 25 pounds in November and 3rd party sellers selling unopened console bundle copies from black Friday at slightly less.

https://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/Play...rismo-Sport/product/B00ZG1SVA4?context=search

I was just telling right now digital is less than retail yet the game still isn't 'dead' as you suggested. Even at retails higher price as you can see in the bestsellers list on amazon.co.uk.

The link you provide shows that the game was selling at full price on PS Store BUT during a week in December.

Retailers had started to cut its price a few weeks after its release and the price never recovered as the Camel Camel Camel link shows (it's the same I posted before).

Bottom line: GTS was overshipped and retailers had to clear shelves.

 

[Three]

The link you provide shows that the game was selling at full price on PS Store BUT during a week in December.

Retailers had started to cut its price a few weeks after its release and the price never recovered as the Camel Camel Camel link shows (it's the same I posted before).

Bottom line: GTS was overshipped and retailers had to clear shelves.

It was November not December. I'm telling you both because the link shows it and because I even saw the price myself that period having just bought it. You say price never recovered but you are looking at third party bundle sellers rather than amazon retail too. Retail the price fluctuated a lot and went back up as the camelcamelcamel link shows. Retailers had to price match for periods because people (third party sellers) were selling console bundled BF copies for less. Not because bomba.

 

[underberg]

It was November not December. I'm telling you both because the link shows it and because I even saw the price myself that period having just bought it. You say price never recovered but you are looking at third party bundle sellers rather than amazon retail too. Retail the price fluctuated a lot and went back up as the camelcamelcamel link shows. Retailers had to price match for periods because people (third party sellers) were selling console bundled BF copies for less. Not because bomba.

Yes, it was selling at full price BUT one week in November---doesn't change what I said.

The game was overshipped and price trajectory on Amazon shows that.

 

[Mattyp]

FH4 doing massive numbers for half the install base and game pass. Would of been the top selling exclusive of the year if xbox had the playstation install base over there.

 

[mars_terraforming]

Yes, it was selling at full price BUT one week in November---doesn't change what I said.

The game was overshipped and price trajectory on Amazon shows that.

GTS got first bigger price-cut during Black Friday week.
So, every game that got a price-cut in November and December was overshipped by publisher? Gotcha.

 

[underberg]

GTS got first bigger price-cut during Black Friday week.
So, every game that got a price-cut in November and December was overshipped by publisher? Gotcha.

Ehm, no: its price never recovered. The game was selling at less than half its retail price throughout holidays and in 2018, too.

 

[mars_terraforming]

Ehm, no: its price never recovered. The game was selling at less than half its retail price throughout holidays and in 2018, too.

Yes, it had recovered back to 30 GBP after holidays ended in 2017. It's normal for more than a 1 year old game to sell at much lower price during this holidays at 15 GBP.
Bunch of newer games were selling less than a half its retail price throughtout holidays in 2018, Far Cry 5 for example for 20 GBP....So, what's your point?

 

[underberg]

Yes, it had recovered back to 30 GBP after holidays ended in 2017. It's normal for more than a 1 year old game to sell at much lower price during this holidays at 15 GBP.
Bunch of newer games were selling less than a half its retail price throughtout holidays in 2018, Far Cry 5 for example for 20 GBP....So, what's your point?

Retailers slashed GTS soon after launch in 2017 and price never really recovered. That means only one thing: overshipping. Far Cry price didn't dropped a few weeks after launch.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

XB1 sales were down this year? Got to say that's somewhat surprising considering the price cuts at the tail end of 2018 and XB1X being introduced to the market.

XB1X launched mid Dec 2017 so sales must have been frontloaded. What was the figure for 2016?

Edit: come to think of it. Does the tracking period for December align with the calendar month?

Xbox One X launched on the 7th of November, where are you getting mid December from...

 

[Three]

Xbox One X launched on the 7th of November, where are you getting mid December from...

You're right. Think I mixed it up with some game release. Probably GT6.

 

[ethomaz]

What consoles? 360 had a year near 5 and the Wii had a year over 5 iirc.

But keep in mind for UK in 2018/19 we are at the end of the gen, don't expect big UK numbers.

That never happened.

No console sold 5 million in a year.

360 and Wii lifetime were a bit over 8.5m for over 7 years how it sold near 5m in a year?

C’mon.

 

[Three]

Retailers slashed GTS soon after launch in 2017 and price never really recovered. That means only one thing: overshipping. Far Cry price didn't dropped a few weeks after launch.

Same top 20 from 2017
THE UK TOP 100 BOXED GAMES 2017 (UKIE/GFK)

Rank Title Publisher/Developer

1. FIFA 18 EA/EA Canada
2. Call of Duty: WWII Activision/Sledgehammer Games
3. Grand Theft Auto V Rockstar/Rockstar North
4. Assassin's Creed Origins Ubisoft/Ubisoft Montreal
5. Star Wars Battlefront II EA/EA DICE
6. Crash Bandicoot N.Sane Trilogy Activision/Vicarious Visions
7. Destiny 2 Activision/Bungie
8. Gran Turismo Sport Sony/Polyphony
9. Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Wildlands Ubisoft/Ubisoft France
10. Horizon Zero Dawn Sony/Guerrilla Games
11. Mario Kart 8: Deluxe Nintendo
12. Super Mario Odyssey Nintendo
13. Forza Horizon 3 Microsoft/Playground Games
14. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Nintendo
15. Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare Activision/Infinity Ward
16. LEGO Worlds Warner Bros/TT Games
17. FIFA 17 EA/EA Canada
18. Resident Evil 7: Biohazard Capcom
19. Fallout 4 Bethesda
20. Forza Motorsport 7 Microsoft/Turn 10

You keep saying this but I doubt it was overshipped. Most stores had them bundled. They knew it was bundled. The price slash was because it was a bundled game.
They knew the price would be like that and they sold a shitload of GTSport. It was the 8th best selling game of 2017. The non-boxed bundles were selling very well. What proof do you have that it was overshipped other than a price reduction? It doesn't make sense either because if it was overshipped and they had a clearance rrp would not drop and price recovery would be more of a thing but you are arguing against that.

 

[underberg]

You keep saying this but I doubt it was overshipped. Most stores had them bundled. They knew it was bundled. The price slash was because it was a bundled game.
They knew the price would be like that and they sold a shitload of GTSport. It was the 8th best selling game of 2017. The non-boxed bundles were selling very well. What proof do you have that it was overshipped other than a price reduction? It doesn't make sense either because if it was overshipped and they had a clearance rrp would not drop and price recovery would be more of a thing but you are arguing against that.

You don't drop the retail price so much shortly after launch unless you want to clear warehouses. Bundles so soon after launch and not spot but permanent are another sign they couldn't (Sony and retailers) get rid of stocks.

 

[Anothergamer]

Crash bandicoot twice in top 10 now?
Last year and this year?

 

[mars_terraforming]

Retailers slashed GTS soon after launch in 2017 and price never really recovered. That means only one thing: overshipping. Far Cry price didn't dropped a few weeks after launch.

Never really recovered? I just had said, GTS's price went back to 30 GPB. Oh yes, it had recovered in some way. GTS had first price cut after 4-5 weeks, bigger price cut during Black Friday week. FC5 price dropped under 35 GPB in month and a half. You really don't know what you're talking about. GTS didn't failed. Has sold in many copies and has millions of active players.

 

[underberg]

Never really recovered? I just had said, GTS's price went back to 30 GPB. Oh yes, it had recovered in some way. GTS had first price cut after 4-5 weeks, bigger price cut during Black Friday week. FC5 price dropped under 35 GPB in month and a half. You really don't know what you're talking about. GTS didn't failed. Has sold in many copies and has millions of active players.

GTS sold below expectations. A mainline entry from one of the biggest gaming franchises which is selling below half its retail price a few weeks after launch and which price never recovered (as shown on Amazon) means only one thing: expectations were way higher.

Numbers of players doesn't mean much when those copies were sold at £20. When companies finance games they expect them to sell at full price at least for some months after launch ESPECIALLY with games that take a GaaS approach AND don't have yearly releases.

 

[mars_terraforming]

GTS sold below expectations. A mainline entry from one of the biggest gaming franchises which is selling below half its retail price a few weeks after launch and which price never recovered (as shown on Amazon) means only one thing: expectations were way higher.

Numbers of players doesn't mean much when those copies were sold at £20. When companies finance games they expect them to sell at full price at least for some months after launch ESPECIALLY with games that take a GaaS approach AND don't have yearly releases.

So, GT5 ( 2nd best selling GT ) also sold below expectations in first two years according to your logic - in 7 mil. copies. But guess what, GT5 had sold in 10 mil. copies after 3 years and almost 12 million as of September 2015.

Every GT game had legs and was selling through its lifetime in millions, same crap for GTS. Yeah, game sold below expectations in 5 mil. copies in 1 year and 3 months. LOL, man! Just LOL! Well, you tried and keep trying!

 

[underberg]

So, GT5 ( 2nd best selling GT ) also sold below expectations in first two years according to your logic - in 7 mil. copies. But guess what, GT5 had sold in 10 mil. copies after 3 years and almost 12 million as of September 2015.

Every GT game had legs and was selling through its lifetime in millions, same crap for GTS. Yeah, game sold below expectations in 5 mil. copies in 1 year and 3 months. LOL, man! Just LOL! Well, you tried and keep trying!

GT5 definitely sold below expectations at the beginning---especially in the United States. The game was heavily bundled and this helped reaching those sales, especially in Europe. At least, back then Sony released Prologue, which sold really well. This time, there wasn't a preview version to steal some market: Sport was the first GT for PS4 and that should have been a big deal, especially after GT6 low sales.

Also, you shouldn't compare sales launch aligned of games released on different installed bases.

GTS will have legs thanks to being sold at £20 everywhere. Do you know how much Sony gets each retail unit sold? About £2. Retailers had so many unsold copies they had to slash the price just after launch and during holidays. Usually retailers wait after holidays to see if demand moves a little bit but GTS demand was deader than dead at full price.

 

[mars_terraforming]

GT5 definitely sold below expectations at the beginning---especially in the United States. The game was heavily bundled and this helped reaching those sales, especially in Europe. At least, back then Sony released Prologue, which sold really well. This time, there wasn't a preview version to steal some market: Sport was the first GT for PS4 and that should have been a big deal, especially after GT6 low sales.

Also, you shouldn't compare sales launch aligned of games released on different installed bases.

GTS will have legs thanks to being sold at £20 everywhere. Do you know how much Sony gets each retail unit sold? About £2. Retailers had so many unsold copies they had to slash the price just after launch and during holidays. Usually retailers wait after holidays to see if demand moves a little bit but GTS demand was deader than dead at full price.

Facepalm,, man! Facepalm! Why i shouldn't compare GT sales launch aligned? Something bothers you? GTS outsold GT1, GT3, GT6 launch aligned during launch week AT FULL PRICE! GTS was sold in around 1 million in one week AT FULL PRICE. GT3 sold 1 million in first few days worldwide. That's below expectations, right? Btw. GT3 was heavily bundled if you didn't know. But also GT3 had sold in many copies stand alone too and after 7 years in almost 15 million copies. Far Cry 5 was one the best selling game during 2018 and either way game got price cut very fast. It's normal that game get a price-cut from time to time. Some games earlier, some games later. Bunch of games have legs when price are dropping through time. GO FIGURE!
Which bundles doesn't help game to sell? That's the point of bundles to push consoles or game to sell. So, every game that is bundled with Xbone/PS4/Switch would be sold like crap according to your logic.

 

[mars_terraforming]

GT5 definitely sold below expectations at the beginning---especially in the United States.

Just in addition, GT5 old over 1,5 mil. copies in US alone in as of 31st Dec. 2010. So, in 1 month since its launch at 50-60$! That's low? LOL,

 

[underberg]

Facepalm,, man! Facepalm! Why i shouldn't compare GT sales launch aligned? Something bothers you?

Because both PS2 and PS3 had much smaller installed base than PS4 when the respective GT entries were released. GT3 was released just after a year from PS2 launch; GT5 was released when PS3 had a smaller installed base than PS4 when GTS was released.

Another factor you don't account for is that GT5 got a Prologue version before---people were already playing to GT on PS3 and therefore there was less rush to buy the game. GTS was the first entry ever on PS4.

GTS outsold GT1, GT3, GT6 launch aligned during launch week AT FULL PRICE! GTS was sold in around 1 million in one week AT FULL PRICE. GT3 sold 1 million in first few days worldwide.

GT6 indeed bombed. It sold just around 5m which is a terrible number for a mainline entry.

GT1 was the first entry of the franchise, an unknown IP, of course it didn't sell much at the beginning.

GT3 was launched a year after PS2 launch when installed base was small.

Just for reference, GTS sold around 200k units in the first 3 months in the market in Japan---GT3 did above 1m in the same timeframe. In the US the difference is very similar.

That's below expectations, right? Btw. GT3 was heavily bundled if you didn't know. But also GT3 had sold in many copies stand alone too and after 7 years in almost 15 million copies.

It was below expectations because Sony expected more and this was clear when retail price was dropped soon after launch: https://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/PlayStation-9827450-Gran-Turismo-Sport/product/B00ZG1SVA4

On Amazon, GTS was selling below £30 just a month after launch and its price never recovered after BF.

Far Cry 5 was one the best selling game during 2018 and either way game got price cut very fast. It's normal that game get a price-cut from time to time. Some games earlier, some games later. Bunch of games have legs when price are dropping through time. GO FIGURE!

Far Cry 5 retail price was much more rigid soon after launch: https://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/UBI-Soft-1025293-Far-Cry/product/B071Z9DB65

It dropped permanently below £40 3 months after launch and has fluctuated around £30 for months after that.

Also, best-selling game =/= within expectations.

Destiny 2 was one of the best-selling games back then but the publisher wasn't really satisfied by its sales.

Which bundles doesn't help game to sell? That's the point of bundles to push consoles or game to sell. So, every game that is bundled with Xbone/PS4/Switch would be sold like crap according to your logic.

If the game is bundled so early yes, it doesn't inspire confidence in the publisher. I can understand spot bundles and when console is new, but PS4 doesn't really need bundles to sell well.

 

[underberg]

Just in addition, GT5 old over 1,5 mil. copies in US alone in as of 31st Dec. 2010. So, in 1 month since its launch at 50-60$! That's low? LOL,

Source?

 

[mars_terraforming]

Because both PS2 and PS3 had much smaller installed base than PS4 when the respective GT entries were released. GT3 was released just after a year from PS2 launch; GT5 was released when PS3 had a smaller installed base than PS4 when GTS was released.

Another factor you don't account for is that GT5 got a Prologue version before---people were already playing to GT on PS3 and therefore there was less rush to buy the game. GTS was the first entry ever on PS4.



GT6 indeed bombed. It sold just around 5m which is a terrible number for a mainline entry.

GT1 was the first entry of the franchise, an unknown IP, of course it didn't sell much at the beginning.

GT3 was launched a year after PS2 launch when installed base was small.

Just for reference, GTS sold around 200k units in the first 3 months in the market in Japan---GT3 did above 1m in the same timeframe. In the US the difference is very similar.



It was below expectations because Sony expected more and this was clear when retail price was dropped soon after launch: https://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/PlayStation-9827450-Gran-Turismo-Sport/product/B00ZG1SVA4

On Amazon, GTS was selling below £30 just a month after launch and its price never recovered after BF.



Far Cry 5 retail price was much more rigid soon after launch: https://uk.camelcamelcamel.com/UBI-Soft-1025293-Far-Cry/product/B071Z9DB65

It dropped permanently below £40 3 months after launch and has fluctuated around £30 for months after that.

Also, best-selling game =/= within expectations.

Destiny 2 was one of the best-selling games back then but the publisher wasn't really satisfied by its sales.



If the game is bundled so early yes, it doesn't inspire confidence in the publisher. I can understand spot bundles and when console is new, but PS4 doesn't really need bundles to sell well.

PS2 install base was a small a year later after launch? 10 million isn't small for 1 year ( and also because till the end of 2000. PS2 was only available at Japan ) and also PS3 was around 40 mil. when was GT5 launched. GT5 Prologue was a demo. A pure demo. Difference was you need to pay for the demo at retail. So, i don't count Prologue.


GT6 unfortunately was released basically when PS4 was launched. "Bombed" or not, game sold well BECAUSE THIS REASON. Period!

Racing crowd for racing simulators changed rapidly since 2010. Market for this genre, especially simulators aren't so big like before. Because this MAIN reason, GTS sold pretty well and game didn't bombed! Some other simulators, like PCARS 2 or Assetto Corsa can dream about these sales numbers.

You should check the "3rd party new" box, not just Amazon on that chart. You really don't want to read or you deliberately ignored what i said : "FC5 price dropped under 35 GPB in month and a half" and it was below 40 GBP since then.

Source?

What's the problem? You're scared to be owned if i give you a source ( i will, don't worry )? What's your source for saying crap how GT5 sold below expectations at the beginning in US, hm?

 

[ethomaz]

Just wait PD release more sales data to see what excuse some will give lol

The game is selling pretty well actually.

 

[Three]

Crash bandicoot twice in top 10 now?
Last year and this year?

Yep. Released last year on PS4 and this year on other platforms (switch, PC, XB1) .

 

[underberg]

PS2 install base was a small a year later after launch? 10 million isn't small for 1 year ( and also because till the end of 2000. PS2 was only available at Japan ) and also PS3 was around 40 mil. when was GT5 launched. GT5 Prologue was a demo. A pure demo. Difference was you need to pay for the demo at retail. So, i don't count Prologue.

It was small compared to PS4 installed base when GTS was released. Of course a game can sell more on a 70m+ installed base than on a 10m installed base. Is that even up to debate?

GT3 released on a 10m installed base.
GT5 released on a 40m installed base.
GTS released on a 70m installed base.

Debuting better than previous games on smaller installed bases is not much an achievement. Also, it didn't do better than GT3 and GT5 in Japan for example and I'm pretty sure it didn't do better in US either but I don't have data right now.

GT6 unfortunately was released basically when PS4 was launched. "Bombed" or not, game sold well BECAUSE THIS REASON. Period!

Companies don't care about that. They care about numbers and performances. GT6 sold WAY BELOW previous mainline entries. True that its legs were cut by PS4 launch but that was Sony's fault---a bad business strategy that led to a bomb.

Racing crowd for racing simulators changed rapidly since 2010. Market for this genre, especially simulators aren't so big like before. Because this MAIN reason, GTS sold pretty well and game didn't bombed! Some other simulators, like PCARS 2 or Assetto Corsa can dream about these sales numbers.

The genre is not popular anymore because the main franchises weren't able to innovate quickly; this was GT and FM's fault. Gamers preferences change over the years if they don't find compelling products.

Also, Sony doesn't finance GT referencing to other franchises as GT was its best-selling franchise ever and had basically no actual competition.

You should check the "3rd party new" box, not just Amazon on that chart. You really don't want to read or you deliberately ignored what i said : "FC5 price dropped under 35 GPB in month and a half" and it was below 40 GBP since then.

Thanks for proving that its price didn't drop as much as GTS price, which could be find at £20 a month and a half after launch and never recovered.

What's the problem? You're scared to be owned if i give you a source ( i will, don't worry )? What's your source for saying crap how GT5 sold below expectations at the beginning in US, hm?

I'm not scared: I like data and I want to have sources when new data come in.

 

[yurinka]

Just for reference, GTS sold around 200k units in the first 3 months in the market in Japan---GT3 did above 1m in the same timeframe. In the US the difference is very similar.

Sounds more dramatic as it is:
GT3 had only retail, GTS also had digital copies.
Even with retail games, nowadays is very popular to buy them online through web stores that may not be tracked there.
Japanese market shrinked since them, European and US market grew since them.
So some Japanese copies sold may not be tracked there, and how important Japanese market is compared to global market shrinked.

I think the more fair comparision would be to see the total amount of copies sold worldwide (including bundled ones) of both games during their entire lifetime, or at least during a same long period of time like their first year or two.

 

[underberg]

Sounds more dramatic as it is:
GT3 had only retail, GTS also had digital copies.
Even with retail games, nowadays is very popular to buy them online through web stores that may not be tracked there.
Japanese market shrinked since them, European and US market grew since them.
So some Japanese copies sold may not be tracked there, and how important Japanese market is compared to global market shrinked.

I think the more fair comparision would be to see the total amount of copies sold worldwide (including bundled ones) of both games during their entire lifetime, or at least during a same long period of time like their first year or two.

Sure. GTS was selling at 20 bucks a few weeks after launch during holidays: retailers had to slash the price to get rid of unsold units.

 

[yurinka]

Sure. GTS was selling at 20 bucks a few weeks after launch during holidays: retailers had to slash the price to get rid of unsold units.

Sales are more common nowadays than in PS2 generation, both because there's more games released and because now they also sell paid DLC, which is a better business for them than units sold at retail because all this revenue goes for them.

So many DLC heavy games lower their price to have a wider userbase in order to have more potential DLC buyers. As an example, GTS has over 200 DLC cars. In the same way, online competitive players benefit from having a wider userbase because having more players of different skills increases the chance of finding other players of your same level in the matchmaking, offering a better experience that translates into bigger retention (playing the game for a longer period of time), which stadistically translates into higher DLC sales.

Some companies sell almost half of their units digitally and games like FIFA earn more money from DLC than from selling copies. Retail copies, and specially Japan retail copies aren't a clear or complete picture of how a DLC heavy, competitive online game is performing anymore.

 

[underberg]

Sales are more common nowadays than in PS2 generation, both because there's more games released and because now they also sell paid DLC, which is a better business for them than units sold at retail because all this revenue goes for them.

So many DLC heavy games lower their price to have a wider userbase in order to have more potential DLC buyers. As an example, GTS has over 200 DLC cars. In the same way, online competitive players benefit from having a wider userbase because having more players of different skills increases the chance of finding other players of your same level in the matchmaking, offering a better experience that translates into bigger retention (playing the game for a longer period of time), which stadistically translates into higher DLC sales.

Some companies sell almost half of their units digitally and games like FIFA earn more money from DLC than from selling copies. Retail copies, and specially Japan retail copies aren't a clear or complete picture of how a DLC heavy, competitive online game is performing anymore.

Sales are more common but when a game in a massive franchise gets a price cut so soon after launch it means that it's not selling as expected. I have a lot of friends working in retailing and that's how it works. GTS was a peculiar case because Sony had BIG expectations, given that it was the first GT game on PS4 and that PS4 had a huge installed base (contrarily to previous games in the franchise like GT3 or GT5 which launched on way smaller installed bases).

Your points about DLC and digital contents are fine as long as you consider the entire product lifecycle and heavy GaaS games. Here we're talking about price cuts soon after launch.

 

[mars_terraforming]

Companies don't care about that. They care about numbers and performances. GT6 sold WAY BELOW previous mainline entries. True that its legs were cut by PS4 launch but that was Sony's fault---a bad business strategy that led to a bomb.



The genre is not popular anymore because the main franchises weren't able to innovate quickly; this was GT and FM's fault. Gamers preferences change over the years if they don't find compelling products.

Also, Sony doesn't finance GT referencing to other franchises as GT was its best-selling franchise ever and had basically no actual competition.

Thanks for proving that its price didn't drop as much as GTS price, which could be find at £20 a month and a half after launch and never recovered.



I'm not scared: I like data and I want to have sources when new data come in.

GTS didn't bombed. LOL. I didn't proved any your point for FC5. FC5 was one of the best selling games, got a price cut very fast ( you claimed it didn't ) and even though it was one of best selling games during first few months last year, games was cheaper more and more. More than 50% of its MSRP in the end after few months. According to your logic, FC5 bombed because price didn't recovered. Btw. you again ignored what i said for GTS:

"Yes, it had recovered in some way, back to 30-35 GBP after holidays ended in 2017"

Btw. here is the data for GT5 :


https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-02-21-gran-turismo-5-passes-6-million-mark

Most of the shipments were to Europe – a whopping 3.97 million. 1.58 million went out to the US, 600,000 to Japan and 230,000 to Asia.

 

[underberg]

GTS didn't bombed. LOL. I didn't proved any your point for FC5. FC5 was one of the best selling games, got a price cut very fast ( you claimed it didn't ) and even though it was one of best selling games during first few months last year, games was cheaper more and more. More than 50% of its MSRP in the end after few months. According to your logic, FC5 bombed because price didn't recovered. Btw. you again ignored what i said for GTS:

"Yes, it had recovered in some way, back to 30-35 GBP after holidays ended in 2017"

Again, selling many units doesn't equate performing well. Performance depends on publishers' expectations. It might also be that Far Cry 5 was overshipped: I don't know as I didn't follow the game. I know that GTS was overshipped and its price reduction was a sign of this. Also, price reductions under holidays outside BF are a sign of a game not selling as expected. GTS indeed sold below expectations.

Btw. here is the data for GT5 :


https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-02-21-gran-turismo-5-passes-6-million-mark

How much did GTS sell in the same timeframe?

Also keep in mind that PS4 had a much bigger installed base in 2017 in the US than PS3 in the same territory in 2010.

 

[mars_terraforming]

Again, selling many units doesn't equate performing well. Performance depends on publishers' expectations. It might also be that Far Cry 5 was overshipped: I don't know as I didn't follow the game. I know that GTS was overshipped and its price reduction was a sign of this. Also, price reductions under holidays outside BF are a sign of a game not selling as expected. GTS indeed sold below expectations.



How much did GTS sell in the same timeframe?

Also keep in mind that PS4 had a much bigger installed base in 2017 in the US than PS3 in the same territory in 2010.

But GTS got a big price-cut during Black Friday week back at 2017. GTS sold less than GT5 in same timeframe for now, but GTS didn't bombed, not even close, as this chart speaks for itself :

Regarding EMEAA chart ( EMEEA doesn't include physical sales for UK or Germany )

Digital data includes games sold in Australia, Austria, Bahrain, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Great Britain, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Kuwait Lebanon, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Oman, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, Ukraine and UAE.

EMEAA:
Week 52, 2018 - All Formats Retail + Digital (Units)

01 (01) FIFA 19 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
02 (02) RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 (ROCKSTARS GAMES)
03 (04) CALL OF DUTY: BLACK OPS 4 (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
04 (08) BATTLEFIELD V (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
05 (10) GRAND THEFT AUTO V (ROCKSTARS GAMES)
06 (03) SUPER SMASH BROS. ULTIMATE (NINTENDO)
07 (05) MARVEL'S SPIDER-MAN (SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT)
08 (07) ASSASSIN'S CREED ODYSSEY (UBISOFT)
09 (09) MARIO KART 8 DELUXE (NINTENDO)
10 (06) SUPER MARIO PARTY (NINTENDO)
11 (14) GOD OF WAR (SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT)
12 (11) POKEMON: LET'S GO, PIKACHU! (NINTENDO)
13 (15) CRASH BANDICOOT N.SANE TRILOGY (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
14 (12) JUST DANCE 2019 (UBISOFT)
15 (28) THE SIMS 4 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
16 (16) SPYRO REIGNITED TRILOGY (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
17 (13) SUPER MARIO ODYSSEY (NINTENDO)
18 (22) NBA 2K19 (2K SPORTS)
19 (19) THE LEGEND OF ZELDA: BREATH OF THE WILD (NINTENDO)
20 (26) GRAN TURISMO SPORT (SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT)
21 (17) SHADOW OF THE TOMB RAIDER (SQUARE ENIX)
22 (34) TOM CLANCY'S RAINBOW SIX SIEGE (UBISOFT)
23 (20) POKEMON: LET'S GO, EEVEE! (NINTENDO)
24 (27) THE CREW 2 (UBISOFT)
25 (21) JUST CAUSE 4 (SQUARE ENIX)
26 (18) MINECRAFT: NINTENDO SWITCH EDITION (NINTENDO)
27 (23) SPLATOON 2 (NINTENDO)
28 (29) FAR CRY 5 (UBISOFT)
29 (37) F1 2018 (CODEMASTERS)
30 (109) PACK (ROCKSTARS GAMES)
31 (39) 1-2 SWITCH (NINTENDO)
32 (33) DETROID: BECOME HUMAN (SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT)
33 (32) ROCKET LEAGUE (WARNER BROS. INTERACTIVE)
34 (36) HITMAN 2 (WARNER BROS. INTERACTIVE)
35 (55) MIDDLE EARTH: SHADOW OF WAR (WARNER BROS. INTERACTIVE)
36 (31) FALLOUT 76 (BETHESDA SOFTWORKS)
37 (56) MONSTER HUNTER: WORLD (CAPCOM)
38 (25) MINECRAFT: PLAYSTATION 4 EDITION (SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT)
39 (24) FARMING SIMULATOR 19 (FOCUS HOME INTERACTIVE)
40 (40) FORZA HORIZON 4 (MICROSOFT)
41 (47) OVERWATCH (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
42 (62) CALL OF DUTY: WWII (ACTIVISION BLIZZARD)
43 (42) THE LAST OF US REMASTERED (SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT)
44 (68) NHL 19 (ELECTRONIC ARTS)
45 (75) RESIDENT EVIL 7: BIOHAZARD (CAPCOM)
46 (50) HORIZON ZERO DAWN (SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT)
47 (44) UNCHARTED 4: A THIEF'S END (SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT)
48 (35) STARLINK: BATTLE FOR ATLAS (UBISOFT)
49 (38) LEGO HARRY POTTER COLLECTION (WARNER BROS. INTERACTIVE)
50 (46) ASTRO BOT: RESCUE MISSION (SONY INTERACTIVE ENTERTAINMENT)

Just wait PD release more sales data to see what excuse some will give lol

The game is selling pretty well actually.

Absolutely. For almost year and a half old game it's not bad at all.

Something is very weird when i saw FH4 at 40th place across 40+ states or for the Europe, Middle East, Asia and Africa. It just shows you the the much clearer picture about state of Xbone outside UK

 

[underberg]

But GTS got a big price-cut during Black Friday week back at 2017. GTS sold less than GT5 in same timeframe for now, but GTS didn't bombed, not even close, as this chart speaks for itself :

The game retail price went down for BF and then NEVER recovered. You can't imagine how much unsold stock retailers had. Also, GTS kept selling well throughout 2018 in terms of units but those units were sold at £20. Do you know how much Sony makes out of those 20 bucks? 15%.

Absolutely. For almost year and a half old game it's not bad at all.

Something is very weird when i saw FH4 at 40th place across 40+ states or for the Europe, Middle East, Asia and Africa. It just shows you the the much clearer picture about state of Xbone outside UK

Selling at 20 bucks when Sony gets 15% out of the retail price: success! Or not?

 

[mars_terraforming]

The game retail price went down for BF and then NEVER recovered.

Price after BF went back to 30-35 GBP. Even not fully, that's recovering.

 

[JohnSpartanLee]

FIFA 19 GotY

 

[mars_terraforming]

Also, GTS kept selling well throughout 2018 in terms of units but those units were sold at £20. Do you know how much Sony makes out of those 20 bucks? 15%.
Selling at 20 bucks when Sony gets 15% out of the retail price: success! Or not?

Also, bunch of best selling games selling well throughout 2018 below 25 GBP like AC Origins. And still it's a success.

How do you know it's 15%? Maybe it's more because it's a 1st party game.