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[EricTheCleric]

Interesting text about the "rebels"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...71f862-3b8c-11e5-b34f-4e0a1e3a3bf9_story.html

edit for another item:

wow, Fred Durst....

whos next?
Nickelback?

http://avmalgin.livejournal.com/5675743.html

 

[Mgoblue201]

Here are two recent articles about Ukraine's debt deal with the IMF. The more optimistic take is from Larry Summers writing in the Washington Post:

I have been watching debt negotiations closely for more than 30 years, since the Latin American crisis of the 1980s. Ukraine has gotten as good and fast a deal as any I have ever seen.

The deal has many virtues:

It reduces the principal value of Ukraine’s debt and eliminates principal payments for the next four years.

It unlocks substantial support from the International Monetary Fund and other international financial institutions on a large-scale.

It brings forward the day when Ukraine can attract significant private capital flows.

It establishes clear principles that will enable Ukraine to defer all principal payments on its obligation coming due to Russia.

Even if Ukraine’s economy does very well, the “value recovery instrument” issued as part of the debt deal, which aligns debt repayment with economic growth, is shrewdly designed so that the vast majority of future growth will still flow to the Ukrainian people, not to its creditors. This is because: (i) the instrument only kicks in at scale in a decade; (ii) it is subject to repurchase on the open market and to subsequent renegotiation; and (iii) it is carefully designed to ensure that only the initial benefit and not the continuing benefit of Ukraine’s growth flows to creditors.

And a slightly more pessimistic take from The Economist:

The IMF has already lent Ukraine about $11 billion since the conflict there began last year. Ukraine needs further help to remain solvent, and thus to keep paying its creditors. The fund has pledged to lend another $11 billion by the end of 2018. But as a condition for disbursing the next $1.7 billion, due some time in the autumn, following a review of the country’s economy, the fund has demanded that Ukraine’s debt be restructured. To make the burden sustainable, and thus justify further lending on its part, it said that Ukraine would need to write off $15.3 billion in debt and interest payments by 2018 and to reduce its public-debt-to-GDP ratio to 71% of GDP by 2020.

...

Both the government and the creditors claim that Ukraine is also on track to meet the debt-to-GDP condition, provided economic growth is in keeping with expectations. If so, the IMF can keep lending. But that looks too optimistic. By the end of the year, Ukraine’s GDP may be nearing $70 billion, a fall of 60% in dollar terms over the past two years. As it is, it fell by 17% year-on-year in the first quarter, and 15% in the second, making the IMF’s debt-to-GDP target a challenge, to say the least.

 

[cebri.one]

So the russians took over Donestsk to ensure the cease fire. This could be very well the first step to reach some kind of agreement with the russians to intervene in Syria.

 

[chadskin]

Putin’s Propaganda TV Lies About Its Popularity

A Kremlin-funded foreign propaganda venture is touted as a big success by backers, but documents provided to The Daily Beast suggest that it is woefully failing in its mission. RT, the 10-year-old network formerly known as Russia Today, appears to be misrepresenting its promulgated success at gaining a broad viewership and promoting the Kremlin’s agenda while spending as much as internationally renowned competitors. The network is also accused of exaggerating its audience and impact with its sole financier—the Russian government—and pretending that it has had a far bigger impact in the Western media sphere than it has, particularly online.

The Daily Beast obtained these documents from Vasily Gatov, a former RIA Novosti employee who had a hand in their preparation. He says they were meant for top Kremlin officials. “Since RT’s earliest days, something always looked wrong to me,” Gatov said. “RT persistently pretended that it was much more important and much bigger that could be confirmed by any data. While RT’s internal reporting told their commissioner—the Russian government—that they’d managed to overcome CNN and the BBC in terms of viewership, no signs of this could be found in reliable data, audited and vetted by foreign sources. Their social media growth, reported in every public statement by RT as a ‘phenomenon,’ also looked suspicious.”

“At a certain point,” Gatov added, “such ‘irregularities’ in RT’s reporting became a part of contest between RIA Novosti and RT. Both agencies rely heavily on state funds. Some of the research made earlier became a part of an argument around funding and policy directions with respect to Western audiences.”

Among the allegations made in the hundreds of pages of materials is that RT wrongfully described its English, Spanish, and Arabic-language broadcasts as reaching 630 million people worldwide in 2013. “In reality, that number is just the theoretical geographical scope of the audience,” one document deadpans, and the network’s only tangible success is found in several Arab countries. It claims the real audience is measured by internationally acknowledged ratings agencies, and those agencies don’t place RT anywhere near the numbers it claimed.

Much more at the link, interesting read: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/17/putin-s-propaganda-tv-lies-about-ratings.html

Ukraine Bans Dozens of Journalists

KIEV, Ukraine—Ukraine’s president signed a decree on Wednesday banning dozens of journalists, including three employees of the British Broadcasting Corp., from entering the country.

“This is a shameful attack on media freedom,” BBC Foreign Editor Andrew Roy said in a statement on the three banned BBC journalists. “These sanctions are completely inappropriate and inexplicable measures to take against BBC journalists who are reporting the situation in Ukraine impartially and objectively and we call on the Ukrainian government to remove their names from this list immediately.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-bans-dozens-of-journalists-1442440625

After the decision to ban BBC (and other Western) journalists yesterday, the Ukrainian government came under fire today by various outlets and the OSCE and is now looking into lifting the ban again:

At 13:09 Kiev time, Yuriy Stets, the Ukrainian minister for information policy, wrote on his Facebook page, promising to have the sanctions on the journalists lifted.

The Interpreter translates:

The list of media personnel who have been sanctioned is questionable and needs changing. For this reason, I have had a discussion with the leadership of the SBU and representatives from the National Security and Defence Council (NSDC).

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukrai...ng-respected-international-journalists/#10035

 

[ultratruman]

Simple binaries of impartiality and objectivity shouldn't cut it; what Russia is doing is pure and simple evil. Imagine an 'objective report' on a genocide or whatever, it would be obscene. The only way to truly show what's happening is from the perspective of the victims.

 

[chadskin]

The ban on the three BBC journalists will be lifted:

Just spoken to President @Poroshenko. BBC journalists will be removed from the sanctions list. Welcome move.

via UK amb. to Ukraine, https://twitter.com/JudithGoughFCO/status/644479034081021952

----------
I also wanted to follow up on Belarus. At the September 8 meeting, despite multiple reports to the contrary in the days before, Lukashenka and Medvedev did not discuss the Kremlin proposal of a Russian airbase in Belarus (as TASS reported).

Instead, now this:

very possible that EU sanctions against #Belarus will be prolonged & then suspended.EU amb will discuss it again nxt week. #Russia #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/rikardjozwiak/status/644502158818283520

Update: Here's the Reuters article re: EU likely suspending Belarus sanctions:

The European Union is likely to lift some sanctions on Belarus, including its travel ban on President Alexander Lukashenko, after he freed a group of political prisoners last month, diplomatic sources say.

A formal decision could come next week at a meeting of EU diplomats. It could involve officially extending the sanctions, which expire on Oct. 31, but suspending their application for a year, said sources familiar with the debate within the bloc.

However, some diplomats prefer to wait until after Belarus' elections on Oct. 11, which Lukashenko, in power for 21 years, is expected to win.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/17/us-belarus-sanctions-eu-exclusive-idUSKCN0RH1KY20150917

Very interesting developments there.

 

[kingkaiser]

The article on 2000 Russian soldiers killed in Donbas was debunked as fake.

http://ruslanleviev.livejournal.com/37565.html

The text was as groundbreaking (wow, finally here's Russia's confession of their troops fighting in Ukraine!) as it was absurd. The absurdity comes from the fact that adopting such a decree or even discussing it is impossible before Russia officially admits its involvement in the war. This is how the sequence should look like: first they officially admit participation in the war and only then adopt a decree on compensations; not the other way around.

Moreover, compensations are already guaranteed for soldiers by Russia's law 306-ФЗ dated 07/11/2011RU, and no separate decrees are needed to pay compensations to soldiers' families (for casualties in Ukraine or in any other war).

We are in the middle of an information war, and spreading fakes is a huge boon to our enemy, the Kremlin, as it demonstrates the media's incompetence. Which is why, if you come across sensational information, don't start publicizing it right away .

 

[Resident_UA]

The article on 2000 Russian soldiers killed in Donbas was debunked as fake.

http://ruslanleviev.livejournal.com/37565.html

It was debunked by livejournal?

I don't know how real those numbers are and they were implied rather than factual, but a blogpost is not a good evidence. Also in another article that guy is saying that there are no Russian troops fighting in Syria... And if you go back enough I'm guessing that this blogger is saying that UFO shot down the plane over Donbass last year. It's kind of sad that these kind of articles are still being posted in this thread...

 

[Pomerlaw]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ns-on-ukraine-rebels-putting-conflict-on-ice?

 

[kingkaiser]

It was debunked by livejournal?

His group is part of the russian opposition, and he is a close friend to Alexej Nawalny.

If you don't know who Nawalny is, please educate yourself

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny

Also in another article that guy is saying that there are no Russian troops fighting in Syria... And if you go back enough I'm guessing that this blogger is saying that UFO shot down the plane over Donbass last year.

You haven't even read the article you are trying to discredit in a pathetic attempt.

His group is the one who actually revealed the Russian army movement into Syria:

http://ruslanleviev.livejournal.com/38649.html

Based on all of the above, our team believes that currently Russian marines have been moved to Syria to guard and strengthen the Tartus depot as well as the airbase close to Latakia. We believe infantry does not take part in the fighting. However, we believe that Russian vehicles with Russian crews do go into battle. Support is also rendered at least by Russian UAVs.

It's kind of sad that these kind of articles are still being posted in this thread...

Because it's contrary to the the blunt propaganda machinery on both sides?

Or because some blind hate against anything russian?

 

[Resident_UA]

His group is part of the russian opposition, and he is a close friend to Alexej Nawalny.

If you don't know who Nawalny is, please educate yourself

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny




You haven't even read the article you are trying to discredit in a pathetic attempt.

His group is the one who actually revealed the Russian army movement into Syria:

http://ruslanleviev.livejournal.com/38649.html






Because it's contrary to the the blunt propaganda machinery on both sides?

Or because some blind hate against anything russian?

Dude, it's livejournal. No matter how much you are trying to spin it. Plus, keep in mind that Russian opposition is not necessarily pro Ukrainian. I know Navalny very well. Nobody is planning to give Crimea back for example.

Once again, I'm not necessarily defending the 2000 figure. The way that information leaked is weird, but posting livejournal article with the headline the words "debunked" in headline is overreaching. Or as you would put it - pathetic.

EDIT: And of course I have blind hate against anything Russian government does. They invaded my country, took large chunk of territory and started a war purpose of which nobody can explain. Why would I feel any sympathy to the government that does this to its neighbor?

 

[ultratruman]

Dude, it's livejournal. No matter how much you are trying to spin it. Plus, keep in mind that Russian opposition is not necessarily pro Ukrainian. I know Navalny very well. Nobody is planning to give Crimea back for example.

Once again, I'm not necessarily defending the 2000 figure. The way that information leaked is weird, but posting livejournal article with the headline the words "debunked" in headline is overreaching. Or as you would put it - pathetic.?

It's good enough for Russia Today

https://************/news/310039-mh17-israeli-missile-version/

But honestly, although I don't see anything wrong with using a free, large, US hosting company for freelance journalism/leaks, it would be nice if Wikileaks etc paid more attention to this stuff and weren't so pre-occupied with cheap anti-americanism. Websites like Interfax never get much publicity anyway.

edit: didn't realise RT was banned here, good stuff. Basically RT were using livejournal as a source for leaks claiming it was the JEWS Israelis who shot down MH17.

 

[EricTheCleric]

It's good enough for Russia Today

https://************/news/310039-mh17-israeli-missile-version/

But honestly, although I don't see anything wrong with using a free, large, US hosting company for freelance journalism/leaks, it would be nice if Wikileaks etc paid more attention to this stuff and weren't so pre-occupied with cheap anti-americanism. Websites like Interfax never get much publicity anyway.

edit: didn't realise RT was banned here, good stuff. Basically RT were using livejournal as a source for leaks claiming it was the JEWS Israelis who shot down MH17.

Wikileaks is suspiciously avoiding publishing leaks that might damage Russia. Couple that with their anti-Americanism and make your own conclusions.

 

[kingkaiser]

Dude, it's livejournal. No matter how much you are trying to spin it.

So it's basically like this, if a LiveJournal debunks pro-Russian propaganda (like with the MH-17 UFO) it's good, Russia is evil after all.

But if a LiveJournal debunks anti-Russian propaganda...well it's just a LiveJournal...I mean how trustworthy are these people, right? Even if the facts they recite are overwhelming.

Must be nice to live in such a simple world.

 

[Funky Papa]

That report was also debunked at The Interpreter, which is a highly reputed source.

It happens. Truth is the first casualty of war, yadda yadda yadda.

Wikileaks is suspiciously avoiding publishing leaks that might damage Russia. Couple that with their anti-Americanism and make your own conclusions.

Wikileaks has published leaks damaging to Russian interests in the past. The problem with Russia is that leaks happen very rarely.

Everything is compartmentalized like a matrioska, and unlike in America, where spies and sources get prison time, Russians are way more expeditive: they will kill you along anybody who may have been in contact with you. Coupled with the systematic purging of the press corps, it makes leaks incredibly difficult to happen.

 

[Resident_UA]

So it's basically like this, if a LiveJournal debunks pro-Russian propaganda (like with the MH-17 UFO) it's good, Russia is evil after all.

But if a LiveJournal debunks anti-Russian propaganda...well it's just a LiveJournal...I mean how trustworthy are these people, right? Even if the facts they recite are overwhelming.

Must be nice to live in such a simple world.

The only blogpost investigation that people were ok with was from bellingcat because it was famous. And even then it was framed as internet investigation and not something that was definitive like your post implied.

As for American propaganda Russians finally need to realize that Americans just don't give a shit about Russia. Most Americans used to think that Ukraine is a city in Russia until this whole thing happened. And Russia was rarely in the news. In fact Russia has been pretty much gone from news cycle since Minsk agreements. Presidential candidates don't even know how to deal with Russia. Trump can't decide if he want to be a friend with Putin or if he should nuke Moscow like badshit insane right wing would want just to show that "USA is #1".

 

[chadskin]

Crimean Tatars and #Ukraine ultra-nationalists have blocked all three land routes to occupied #Crimea. Expect furious response from #Russia.

https://twitter.com/maxrtucker/status/645577109356834816

 

[chadskin]

OSCE envoy regrets lack of progress in Ukraine talks

An envoy from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe has voiced regret over the intransigence of Russia-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine, who have insisted on holding local elections in defiance of the Ukrainian government.

Ambassador Martin Sajdik, the OSCE's representative at the Contact Group talks, told reporters after Tuesday's round of talks in the Belarusian capital Minsk that the rebels said they would hold the vote in October and November as they planned earlier.

The Ukrainian government dismissed the planned election as a sham and insisted that they could only be held in accordance with Ukrainian law.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/6052...sce-envoy-regrets-lack-progress-ukraine-talks

 

[ultratruman]

https://twitter.com/maxrtucker/status/645577109356834816

what do they have left to lose?

 

[chadskin]

Russia plans second big military base near Ukrainian border

Russia is planning a second major military base near the border with Ukraine, where NATO accuses Russian troops of helping pro-Moscow separatists fight Kiev's forces.

The new base will house 5,000 soldiers and heavy weaponry, according to public documents and people working at the site.

It is further east than one under construction in Belgorod region reported by Reuters earlier this month but still close to the border with separatist-held parts of Ukraine's eastern Luhansk region, where there has been heavy fighting.

The bases are part of a Russian military buildup along a new line of confrontation with the West, running from the Black Sea in the south to the Baltic in the north, which carries echoes of the Cold War-era "Iron Curtain".

The documents show the Russian defense ministry intends to turn an old military depot in the town of Boguchar, in Voronezh region, into a major base with dozens of buildings and special facilities for more than 1,300 armored vehicles and ammunition.

The new base, with a dozen barracks with space for 5,210 troops, warehouses for rockets, an infirmary, swimming pool and large training complex, will be 45 km (28 miles) from the Ukrainian border.

Besides the plans for the two new bases in southern Russia, the Kremlin has moved military hardware to its Baltic enclave Kaliningrad, approved a military air base in Belarus last week, and it is beefing up its military presence in Crimea.

Russia has pulled out of the treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe, a post-Cold War pact that limits the deployment of troops in Europe, so it is free to move extra troops and hardware to its western border.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/23/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-base-idUSKCN0RN1P120150923

 

[Engell]

Russian Roulette (Dispatch 110)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsr1J6F76XY


Simon is back, and it looks like someone removed their support from east Ukraine and moved it somewhere else..

 

[chadskin]

U.S. State Dept:

We condemn the recent decision by Russia-backed separatist leaders in Luhansk, Ukraine, to expel UN agencies and all international nongovernmental organizations providing humanitarian assistance in the area. This will endanger many lives and is contrary to the Minsk agreements. Expelling these organizations puts at risk up to three million people in separatist-held parts of Donbas by denying them access to food, water, medicine, shelter, and clothes in advance of winter. Sixteen thousand tons of immediate, life-saving humanitarian assistance is now being blocked from reaching those in need. We call on the Russia-backed separatists to take immediate steps to improve the lives of the very people they claim to care about most by allowing humanitarian organizations unrestricted access and facilitating the provision of desperately needed assistance now to all those who are suffering.

We also remain concerned about planned separatist-organized so-called “elections” in Donetsk and Luhansk, which are illegitimate and clearly contrary to the Minsk agreements. The February Minsk plan requires that local elections must be held in accordance with Ukrainian law, in compliance with relevant Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) standards, and monitored by the OSCE Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights. None of these conditions have been met by the Russia-backed separatists.

Russia-backed separatists also continue to block access to OSCE monitors, jam the OSCE’s attempts to collect and verify information via unmanned drones, and have fomented attacks against OSCE personnel, in one instance setting fire to their vehicles.

We have made clear to Russia and the separatists it supports that such blatant disregard of the commitments made in Minsk will be met with increased costs. The key to resolving the crisis in eastern Ukraine, as agreed to by Russia, is the full implementation of the Minsk agreements, including a comprehensive ceasefire, the withdrawal of heavy weapons, legitimate local elections as defined by the agreements and agreed to in the Trilateral Contact Group, and unimpeded access to all areas of Ukraine by international humanitarian organizations.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2015/09/247335.htm

 

[chadskin]

Flight MH17: Russia could face legal action over downing of jet over Ukraine

Russia could face a barrage of legal action over the downing of flight MH17 as affected countries gather in New York to discuss their options.

Australia’s foreign minister, Julie Bishop, will meet with her counterparts from Belgium, Malaysia, the Netherlands and Ukraine on Tuesday during the annual United Nations general assembly meeting.

One of the proposals is for a tribunal similar to that established to prosecute Libyan suspects over the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am flight over Scotland.

Nations that lost some of the 298 passengers and crew in the Malaysia Airlines disaster over eastern Ukraine in July 2014 are also looking at launching separate prosecutions.

A report by the Dutch led-investigation team, set to be published on 13 October, is understood to include evidence the plane was brought down by a Russian-made Buk missile fired from separatist territory in eastern Ukraine.

Russia has denied any involvement but in July used its veto power at the UN to block a resolution that would have formed a tribunal to bring the perpetrators to justice.

A further option could be a fresh attempt at a UN security council resolution. However, this is unlikely until after the investigation report is concluded.

It is understood several international lawyers are working on the options.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...legal-action-over-downing-of-jet-over-ukraine

 

[CHEEZMO™]

OSCE mission's latest report says they observed a Buratino in occupied Luhansk Oblast a few days ago

On 26 September the SMM observed at least 36 tanks (type unknown) at the training area in “LPR”-controlled Kruhlyk (31km south-west of Luhansk). A day earlier the SMM spotted at the same training area one heavy multiple launch thermobaric rocket system (TOS-1 Buratino, 220mm).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOS-1

 

[chadskin]

OSCE mission's latest report says they observed a Buratino in occupied Luhansk Oblast a few days ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOS-1

People in the LPR reportedly spotted one in March, so I hope it's not indicative of any additional military build-up.

 

[chadskin]

Ukrainian commander-in-chief lifts the lid on the conflicts fragile ceasefire

“I don’t believe Russians will withdraw their troops, hand over control of the border, or allow free elections in Donbass, no, absolutely not,” he said. “I can only assess what is happening at the moment and there is currently little evidence of movement on any of these fronts.”

Col-Gen Muzhenko confirmed that while a ceasefire has largely held since 29 August, reconnaissance groups have remained active along the front lines. A significant enemy military presence – “more than 40,000” – remains inside the separatist enclaves, he said, and “all of them are answerable to a Russian chain of command”.

In his time as Commander-in-Chief, Col-Gen Muzhenko’s own actions have attracted much criticism from public and military alike. They point to his role in the damaging capitulation at Ilovaisk in August 2014, then the loss of Donetsk airport in January 2015, and the equally humiliating retreat from Debaltseve in February. Many believe army incompetence and hubris cost many Ukrainian lives. Some estimate the number of soldiers lost in the Ilovaisk battle alone to be more than 1,000 (official figures are nearer 500). Col-Gen Muzhenko told The Independent that about 90 per cent of the information he received during the Ilovaisk battle turned out to be false.

It was, he says, a failure of Ukrainian intelligence gathering and deliberate Russian misinformation.

“We had entire units to the south of Donetsk in Ambrosievka and Uspenka abandoning their positions without orders,” he said.

Some of the soldiers were “defeated psychologically”, and were “lacking proper military preparation”.

In reality, an unanticipated surge had meant that many soldiers felt outgunned. Some of those who left say they had run out of ammunition.

Col-Gen Muzhenko said regular Russian forces had a tactic of operating in the second wave of attack, to reduce visibility. He also made new claims about a previously undisclosed role of Russian special forces in the battle for Debaltseve in February. He said the appearance of such units within the town itself was the factor that forced the Ukrainians to retreat.

“We were holding Debaltseve right up until Russian special forces and marines entered the town – we had a supply route, had ammunition, but that was a game-changer and we had to leave,” he said. The forced retreat from Debaltseve happened after the signing of the Minsk agreement, at a time when a ceasefire was supposed to be in place. Col-Gen Muzhenko rejects criticism that the retreat from Debaltseve was “panicked”. Instead, he says military planners could not order the withdrawal as quickly as they had liked since they were waiting for enemy artillery to be repositioned from the east, from where it could easily hit Ukrainian escape routes. As soon as that happened, Ukrainian forces began to withdraw. “The retreat was planned, co-ordinated and staged, and with minimal losses,” he said.

Given the level of hostility that now exists between the two countries, once part of the same state, did Col-Gen Muzhenko ever envisage returning to Russia?

“If this wasn’t an interview, I’d tell you exactly how I’d like to return,” he says.

“But please understand me right – that was a joke.

“I can’t have your readers thinking the Ukrainian commander-in-chief has Napoleonic tendencies.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...the-conflicts-fragile-ceasefire-a6672621.html

 

[chadskin]

leonidragozin: DNR's envoy declares end of the war in Ukraine http://ria.ru/world/20150930/1294016703.html

https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/649254099133857792

 

[Resident_UA]

https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/649254099133857792

Who could predict that this would happen on the same day Russia started bombing Syria? /sarcasm

 

[Purkake4]

Now we wait for the proud new states to take a very strong interest in international security and pledge their support to ending the horrible civil war in Syria.

 

[Veritigo_X]

I was wondering how Russia's activity in Syria would affect Eastern Ukraine. I didn't expect something to come up the exact same day Russia started airstrikes...

 

[Pomerlaw]

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/radars-for-ukraine-obama-s-signal-to-putin

US sending 20 millions in radar tech to Ukraine.

I'm ok with that. No lethal arms, but means for Ukraine to better defend itself if necessary.

 

[chadskin]

#Normandy talks began outside the building — HT Pres Poroshenko Press Sec @STsegolko

via https://twitter.com/yarko/status/649934690309287936

 

[chadskin]

Normandy Format talks continue inside the Élysée Palace, foreign ministers are also participating it seems:

https://twitter.com/auswaertigesamt/status/649950675628126208

 

[chadskin]

The talks in Paris have finished, apparently...

https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/650000735829147648

Putin:

Poroshenko:

No statements yet.

 

[Resident_UA]

No statements yet.

Apparently they pretty much just talked about elections in Donbass area. Sounds like they agreed on something.

Now that Russia is switched to Syria nobody gives to give a shit about the whole region... Ukraine could probably easily take it back with force now, but it really isn't worth it anymore.

 

[chadskin]

Yep, here are some details from the AFP:

Ukraine local elections will not take place in 2015: Hollande

French President Francois Hollande said Friday that local elections in Ukraine, planned for October, will be delayed until next year.

With the rebel east planning separate elections from the rest of Ukraine, Hollande said after a Paris summit on the conflict that the polls would be delayed to allow "an indisputable election".

Ukraine had planned the local election for October 25, while the rebel east had announced theirs on separate dates in what has been described as a breach of a peace deal.

Hollande said after a summit in Paris between Germany, France, Russia and Ukraine that the elections "must be held according to Ukraine's electoral law".

He and German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the leaders had decided that a new electoral law would be passed in Ukraine, and that only 90 days after that could the polls be held.

Hollande also said that a pre-agreed withdrawal of light weapons on the Ukrainian frontline would begin on Saturday.

http://news.yahoo.com/leaders-meet-consolidate-ukraines-fragile-peace-115824130.html

 

[Resident_UA]

Hollande's rhetoric past this meeting is just insane. I think he truly believes that he resolved a real civil war, but then stated that Russia (!!) will give the control over the border back to Ukraine after elections. I can put up with Russia acting irrationally, but the farce that's coming from the EU is not that much better than Russian aggression.

I still don't understand why this whole thing happened. Just so Russia can keep Crimea? That's it? Is Crimea really worth it? Now that Russia just wants the whole thing to go away the conflict died down in a matter of days... But now there's this whole territory that sizable % of Ukrainians don't even want anymore...

 

[SymbiantXenos]

Don't be shocked when the fake elections for the so called dnr lnr take place on October

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Hollande's rhetoric past this meeting is just insane. I think he truly believes that he resolved a real civil war, but then stated that Russia (!!) will give the control over the border back to Ukraine after elections. I can put up with Russia acting irrationally, but the farce that's coming from the EU is not that much better than Russian aggression.

I still don't understand why this whole thing happened. Just so Russia can keep Crimea? That's it? Is Crimea really worth it? Now that Russia just wants the whole thing to go away the conflict died down in a matter of days... But now there's this whole territory that sizable % of Ukrainians don't even want anymore...

Yeah, you cant make this shit up , peace is good tho .

 

[chadskin]

#Lavrov: Dmitry Peskov commented explicitly on the outcome of the Normandy format talks. We are satisfied with them #Ukraine

#Lavrov: The Normandy format talks cleared any possible misunderstanding regarding the essence of the February 12 Minsk Agreements #Ukraine

#Lavrov: The possible extension of the Minsk Agreements’ deadline is of secondary importance. What matters is the essence of what we must do

#Lavrov: Of key importance is the approval of special status for Donbass within the agreed upon parameters #Ukraine http://t.co/tStEx5fKyK

#Lavrov: A special status must be conferred on Donbass permanently, as stipulated in Minsk, and must be sealed in the Ukrainian constitution

#Lavrov: An amnesty, constitutional reform in #Ukraine, special status and local elections in Donbass were discussed in Paris as a package

#Lavrov: Under France’s proposal, we discussed coordinating a timeframe for elections in Donbass w/ other political objectives @ambruspresse

#Lavrov: President Putin promised to forward this complex idea to Donetsk and Lugansk. We’ll know about their reaction later

https://twitter.com/mfa_russia

Contact group to discuss Donbas elections on October 6 – Kyiv

The trilateral contact group will meet in Minsk on October 6 to discuss local elections in Donbas, Kostiantyn Yeliseyev, deputy head of the Ukrainian presidential administration, said.

"Local elections will be discussed by the trilateral contact group and I want to say that the next meeting will take place tomorrow, and we hope the process will begin there," Yeliseyev told a briefing in Kyiv on Monday.

Yeliseyev added that the special things about the voting in eastern Ukraine have to be taken into account, specifically, guarantees of internally displaced people's ability to vote, participation by all political forces and the unimpeded work of all Ukrainian media during the election process.

"All these aspects will be discussed by the trilateral contact group, which is a key mechanism in the implementation of the Minsk agreements," Yeliseyev said.

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/294553.html

 

[pulsemyne]

And the Russians just admitted that some of those "Volunteers" in DPR and KNR are going to start turning up in syria. Apparently russia cannot stop them going there. So as one war ends another begins.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

And the Russians just admitted that some of those "Volunteers" in DPR and KNR are going to start turning up in syria. Apparently russia cannot stop them going there. So as one war ends another begins.

Crazy how they can just cross the border between Russia and Syria like with Ukraine /s.

 

[SymbiantXenos]

And the Russians just admitted that some of those "Volunteers" in DPR and KNR are going to start turning up in syria. Apparently russia cannot stop them going there. So as one war ends another begins.

You'd have to be a special kind of useful idiot to even entertain the idea they're 'volunteers'

 

[Phantast2k]

Yeah, it seems like the Pentagon is already calculating with them getting involved with boots in the ground: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/05/politics/russia-ground-campaign-syria-isis/

I find it pretty despicable how my government along with the French are forcing Ukraine to concessions even though they have been attacked. I dearly hope Poroshenko can withstand that pressure.

 

[Resident_UA]

Yeah, it seems like the Pentagon is already calculating with them getting involved with boots in the ground: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/05/politics/russia-ground-campaign-syria-isis/

I find it pretty despicable how my government along with the French are forcing Ukraine to concessions even though they have been attacked. I dearly hope Poroshenko can withstand that pressure.

To be fair there's not much Ukraine can do to Russia on its own. And retaliating against "DNR" is kind of pointless now that everyone who was running the show ran to Russia (and probably are on their way to Syria). My only hope that Russian army gets what it deserves in Syria...

As for "DNR" it looks like nobody wants that territory anymore. I have no idea who is going to pay for rebuilding... That region is only useful to Yanukovich's party which somehow still gets people from Donbass to vote for them.

 

[Resident_UA]

In case anyone is interested "DNR" and "LNR" officially agreed to reschedule their elections to the next year so they can be held under Ukrainian law...

 

[chadskin]

In case anyone is interested "DNR" and "LNR" officially agreed to reschedule their elections to the next year so they can be held under Ukrainian law...

Some reactions:

The concession by the separatists comes at a time when Russia has adopted a more constructive tone in talks over Ukraine, according to diplomats involved in the discussion who say Russia has influence over the rebels.

Together with a pull-back of light weapons by both sides and signs the ceasefire is holding, the rebels' decision appeared to raise cautious optimism that genuine efforts were being made to give the troubled Minsk peace deal a chance.

"Moscow has actually delivered," a German government source said in a reaction.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/06/us-ukraine-crisis-election-rebels-idUSKCN0S01GC20151006

 

[Resident_UA]

"Moscow has actually delivered," a German government source said in a reaction.

Great strategy deployed by Russia. Start conflict that kills thousands of people then suddenly switch your focus to another war and Germans will sort of praise you. EU as a whole is fucking disgraceful...

 

[chadskin]

The Dutch Safety Board will release its report on the downing of MH17 today. Before it's released publicly in a matter of hours, they've told relatives about their findings a short while ago.

Relatives of victims have confirmed that the DSB reports concluded that the MH17 was hit by a Russian-made Buk missile.

Speaking to reporters in the Hague after being shown early copies of the report, relatives also revealed that all the passengers died or lost consciousness as soon as the missile hit.

The BBC’s Anna Holligan, who is in the Hague, has been told that Buk missile shrapnel was found inside the bodies of some of crew members.

Barry Sweeney, whose son, Liam, was one of the victims has confirmed that the DSB concluded that MH17 was hit by a Buk missile.

Asked by BBC News what the report found he said: “Basically that the plane was hit be a Buk missile. I think the Russians have said it wasn’t a Buk, but through fragments they’ve found they reckon it was. It’s hit the cockpit first, killing all three in the cockpit. The cockpit then broke off probably creating confusion in the rest of the plane. Hopefully most people were unconscious by the time this happened.”

The Guardian has a live blog here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/oct/13/mh17-crash-report-ukraine-live-updates

 

[archnemesis]

As expected. Russia is trying to divert the blame by countering with their own report.