No. I do not believe in this 100%. The most of people in Ukraine are under the propaganda that Russia is the deepest craphole. The same can be said about the opinion of most russians about Ukraine. But he, this investor, is neither russian nor ukrainian. He is an independent investor who earned more than 300 million net worth. Such people, who's goal is money only, in most cases are the most cold-blooded money earners who cannot be influenced by propaganda of any kind (neither russian, ukrainian or american). So. He just may be aware of how things go in the countries he is talking about. And his "Everybody would rather be part of Russia than Ukraine" can actually reflect thinking of a lot of people.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.
- Thread starter CitizenVectron
- Start date
- Status
No. I do not believe in this 100%. The most of people in Ukraine are under the propaganda that Russia is the deepest craphole. The same can be said about the opinion of most russians about Ukraine. But he, this investor, is neither russian nor ukrainian. He is an independent investor who earned more than 300 million net worth. Such people, who's goal is money only, in most cases are the most cold-blooded money earners who cannot be influenced by propaganda of any kind (neither russian, ukrainian or american). So. He just may be aware of how things go in the countries he is talking about. And his "Everybody would rather be part of Russia than Ukraine" can actually reflect thinking of a lot of people.
Resident_UA
Member
That's what is so weird about you (and Russians in general). American citizens say bad things about US every day. Why are you taking such a joy in this? Why does it matter?
Also the fact that he invested in Russia only proves that he is making a bet that Russian economy will stay strong. Obviously he wants Russia to look good and is interested that people believed Russia.
There's nothing wring with investing money into Ukraine. Big cities (Kiyv, Lviv, Dnipropetrovsk) are doing just fine. IT sector is doing great. If corruption goes down Ukraine has pretty good chance to do well.
Resident_UA
Member
...or it could reflect thinking of no one. What is that statistic based on?
Last time I checked most of Ukraine still hated Russia, so those would not want to be part of Russia. That's not "most" for sure.
And I've been to Moscow in 2012 (before this whole thing started) and I would not want to live there. Ukrainian cities look much cleaner and everything is much cheaper. So that's not me either.
EDIT: And Ukrainians don't even need a visa to go to Russia, so if this was true they would have moved back in 1991.
... Said no one ever. I've met exactly zero Ukrainians and/or Eastern Europeans who would say this. And Canada is home to the largest Ukrainian population outside of Ukraine.
Society should listen to sociopaths for objective advice in the future then.
I was going to let it slide but discussion seems to have sprung up around this guy's comments. Jim Rogers is an eccentric with many investments in Russia. He frequently made absurd predictions like tertiary industry was going to collapse and that everyone should become a farmer as they were going to "drive the Lamborghinis" due to the electronics industry not existing any more.
It's like taking Ron Paul's advice on economics, the guy's a novelty act.
MisterFalcon
Member
It's weird how the pro-Russian side pushes the Nuland narrative without realizing the implications if it is actually true.
The reasoning is that everyone in Ukraine loves Russia but the Russia-loving government was overthrown by the US making a few phone calls. And despite a massive expenditure in money and lives Russia has been unable to reverse that. It basically admits Russia is powerless agains the US who can bend reality to their will with just some words and a few billion.
The reasoning is that everyone in Ukraine loves Russia but the Russia-loving government was overthrown by the US making a few phone calls. And despite a massive expenditure in money and lives Russia has been unable to reverse that. It basically admits Russia is powerless agains the US who can bend reality to their will with just some words and a few billion.
Der Spiegel and Frankfurter Allgemeine are reporting that the Front National (a French far-right party associated with the Le Pen family) has received a loan of over 45 Million Euros from a Russian bank:
Front National erhält 40-Millionen-Kredit aus Moskau
Front National erhält 40-Millionen-Kredit aus Moskau
Yeah, this isn't surprising. Russia is, quite unsurprisingly, an ardent supporter of Euroscepticism. The last thing Moscow needs is a Europe where they can't play divide and conquer, a Europe that isn't pathetically weak.
anonymous_abc
Member
They just want an excuse to march onto Paris to protect the French from the Nazis...
mercenar1e
Member
so this is how Russia responds after the latest events with Saudi Arabia.. a country without heat might push people over the edge.
AtomnayaKlubnika
Member
lol, the Front National is often compared to the nazi party in France. The founder of the party, Jean-Marie Le Pen, is a Holocaust denier and a Vichy sympathizer. So much irony.
Looks like pro-EU parties eked out a win in Moldova.
Meanwhile, in Ukraine far-right militias backed by the country's oligarchs whisper of a coup against Poroshenko: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/28/ukraine-militias-threaten-anti-kiev-coup.html
Meanwhile, in Ukraine far-right militias backed by the country's oligarchs whisper of a coup against Poroshenko: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/28/ukraine-militias-threaten-anti-kiev-coup.html
Resident_UA
Member
That shows how much you follow Ukrainian news. These coup slogans and ideas have been widespread and reported numerous times since Maidan was over. If Poroshenko ends up being the same as Yanukovich he will fall as well. Ukrainians are fully aware of this and are ready to start another Maidan if corruption does not stop. There's really no other option.
So apparently after trade talks with Turkey, Russia is going to scrap the South Sream project.
Interesting stuff.
Interesting stuff.
Stereogatari
Banned
It's only natural for Turkey and Russia to become friends. After all they have one key thing in common, they are both "traditional" enemies of Europe.
Colonel Sponsz
Neo Member
More than anything else, they're traditional enemies of each other.
ConfusingJazz
Member
Yeah, I was going to say.
I mostly meant that the scrapping of South Stream was interesting. What I see is a rising regional power striking a convenient deal with a diminishing one, while both furiously ignore what the other is doing in Syria.
I don't really understand the gist of your post. I posted an article from one of the most popular English news outlets that was posted a few days ago. This news has not been posted in this thread yet.
I don't "follow Ukrainian news." On the other hand, I was the only person on NeoGAF to predict prior to Yanukovich's ouster that Ukraine would lose both Crimea and the Donbass if he was overthrown. I was correct.
Resident_UA
Member
I was criticizing the article for being full of sensationalism. I thought that was clear.
Did you also predict that Russia would steal Crimea? Did you predict that Russian FSB agents would be in charge of Donetsk in August 2014? There is a difference between actually predicting something and just repeating Russian propaganda which is utilized to make sure above mentioned happened.
FYI - Here's another interview (in Russian) where Strelkov acknowledges that he is still an FSB agent and heavily implies that he was given orders from Russia: http://www.mk.ru/politics/2014/12/01/polkovnik-fsb-igor-strelkov-nazval-bessmyslennym-shturm-doneckogo-aeroporta.html
So unless Strelkov is a Ukrainian secret agent pretending to be Russian secret agent pretending to be Donetsk Rebel, I think it is pretty clear what happened here.
I'd say Russia was a traditional dream for Europe. Napoléon Bonaparte dreamed about it, Hitler dreamed about it, but when they tried to take it they got their butts kicked hard eventually. As to Turkey. It may be even more interesting that Russia kicked them from Crimea in XXIII c.
EricTheCleric
Member
Russian UAV shot down.
Granat-series (Granat 4) entered service in the Russian military last year. Available in a hardware store near you.
And yet former soviet countries had a lot of hurry to distance themselves from Russia once Sovjet went into shambles. Apparantly they did not have a good experience... Which still is the case as Russia is mainly having to use threats as a tool to have former soviet countries to join their trade union and in other "cooperation" agreements
Granat-series (Granat 4) entered service in the Russian military last year. Available in a hardware store near you.
And yet former soviet countries had a lot of hurry to distance themselves from Russia once Sovjet went into shambles. Apparantly they did not have a good experience... Which still is the case as Russia is mainly having to use threats as a tool to have former soviet countries to join their trade union and in other "cooperation" agreements
Less that. More that theyre both hyper nationalistic and extremely religiously driven and xenophobic.
There both basket cases that haven't ever really recovered from the loss of their empires.
curlyfriski
Banned
So you don't know shit about Turkey. This is as dumb as saying America is a country of fat idiots.
EricTheCleric
Member
I have a solution: theyre both ruled by hyper nationalistic and extremely religiously driven and xenophobic governments.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
From my understanding Turkey was fairly secular until recently.
Resident_UA
Member
I know it's not true, but that's how it looks from the side. Whenever you take a step back no matter how small the step is from outside it looks like going back to middle ages. (palace, comments about women, etc...)
Russia being extremely religiously driven is a biggest catcrap I've ever head about russia. There's no place in this world where religion is more laughed at and humiliated then in russia that I know of.
Extremely religiously driven, for example, is Saudi Arabia where there is a death penalty for changing religion from Islam.
Neither I agree with your nationalistic and xenophobic stuff.
ymoc
Member
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/02/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSKCN0JG0UU20141202
Some interesting bits:
The new cabinet includes foreign technocrats in pivotal posts such as finance minister for Natalie Jaresko, a U.S. citizen,
My guess is, there'll soon be a new job opening for another USA vice-president's son (or similar) in another leading ukrainean company or board of directors (preferably energy related).
Lithuanian Aivaras Abromavicius, a partner in investment firm East Capital (a banker educated in the USA), and Georgian Aleksander Kvitashvili (also educated in the USA), who are now economy and health ministers, respectively.
How many US citizens or assets are now in control of some vital positions in Ukraine?
It seems the place is finally pretty much under control.
(Let's not forget that the USA has managed to get an inside asset installed into the highest position in the country already - the Ukrainean president
I really REALLY don't get how so many here see this conflict so one-sidedly ---> russian agression and expansionism.
This whole fucking mess could not have hapenned without at least 2 parties involved.
It's just incredibly hypocritical to point fingers and demonise only Russia, while blatantly ignoring the soft invasion of the USA/EU.
I know I'm preaching to the choir, since the current MO is to take as much shit on Russia as possible, so I apologize for raining on the parade.
Some interesting bits:
The new cabinet includes foreign technocrats in pivotal posts such as finance minister for Natalie Jaresko, a U.S. citizen,
My guess is, there'll soon be a new job opening for another USA vice-president's son (or similar) in another leading ukrainean company or board of directors (preferably energy related).
Lithuanian Aivaras Abromavicius, a partner in investment firm East Capital (a banker educated in the USA), and Georgian Aleksander Kvitashvili (also educated in the USA), who are now economy and health ministers, respectively.
How many US citizens or assets are now in control of some vital positions in Ukraine?
It seems the place is finally pretty much under control.
(Let's not forget that the USA has managed to get an inside asset installed into the highest position in the country already - the Ukrainean president
I really REALLY don't get how so many here see this conflict so one-sidedly ---> russian agression and expansionism.
This whole fucking mess could not have hapenned without at least 2 parties involved.
It's just incredibly hypocritical to point fingers and demonise only Russia, while blatantly ignoring the soft invasion of the USA/EU.
I know I'm preaching to the choir, since the current MO is to take as much shit on Russia as possible, so I apologize for raining on the parade.
Not in government circles. The Russian Orthodox Church and the Kremlin are tight as fuck.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/06/us-ukraine-crisis-church-insight-idUSKCN0HV0MH20141006
And of course there was the joint effort by the ROC and government to prosecute Pussy Riot.
And then there's this gem:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/12/04...de/pussy-riot-vs-the-russian-orthodox-church/
Resident_UA
Member
1. Natalie Jaresko was US citizen of Ukrainian descent. All the foreign ministers took Ukrainian citizenship.
2. The fact that Ukrainian government is making stupid decisions does not negate that Russia is acting aggressively! That's what people like you fail to understand. There isn't a huge support of foreign ministers in Ukraine. Personally I support it because I believe that they are less likely to be corrupt, but that's just me.
3. Why you are assuming that EU and US are viewed as saint in this situation?! They deserve criticism as well, but at least they haven't annexed a part of Ukrainian territory!
4. Where are you from? Imagine that there was soft invasion from US/EU versus a WAR (!!!) and annexation from China. Which one would you be concerned about?
5. Russia protecting it's interests is understandable, but doing so by annexing territory from Ukraine and starting a war is not acceptable. Sure US and EU do stupid things too, but at least US is not annexing parts of Canada and EU isn't supplying Catalonia rebels with weapons.
EricTheCleric
Member
onesided?
Russia has invaded Ukraine, there is no excuse for this aggression whatsoever!
You are saying that someone else should be blamed as well for the Russian invasion?
EricTheCleric
Member
eventful night
Insurgency/terrorist/rebel attacks in Grozny and a nuclear attack drill in Moscow. The night before Putin has a State of the nation speech
Insurgency/terrorist/rebel attacks in Grozny and a nuclear attack drill in Moscow. The night before Putin has a State of the nation speech
and there is a lot of talk that Germany is about to push SWIFT on banning Russian banks. If they wont ban Russia outright they plan to apparently target banks one at a time.
Do you have a link to this news?
Interesting stuff from Germain: http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/malaysian-airlines-abschuss-101.html
It is clear that the report on MH17 is being amended by a third party (do not tell anybody that it is US, that is a secret). So, what was amended. It was said initially that after getting their military Ан-26 shot down on the altitude of 6500 meters Ukraine did one of the stupidest things ever (of cause after officially shutting down a civilian playing as training exercise by mistake). What was that? They set a no-fly zone up to 9750 meters. Why is it stupid? Because on that altitude the only weapon that can hit an aircraft which they "knew" terrorists had is heavy ground-air rocket which, what is obvious as hell, is not a limit for that rockets: rockets of that type can hit an aircraft without problems up to 13000 meters. So, what was this 9750 meters restriction is about? MH17 was shut down on the altitude of 10050 according to Ukraine officials. All this information which questions Ukraine adequacy regarding the "known terrorists threat" was deleted from the official report. In other words, Ukraine must had just set a no-fly zone up to the range of the heavy ground-air rockets (which Ukraine and US KNEW the "terrorists" got hold of) if they were caring for safety of the aircraft flying over Ukraine, but they hadn't. Why? US does not want us to ask that question.
It is clear that the report on MH17 is being amended by a third party (do not tell anybody that it is US, that is a secret). So, what was amended. It was said initially that after getting their military Ан-26 shot down on the altitude of 6500 meters Ukraine did one of the stupidest things ever (of cause after officially shutting down a civilian playing as training exercise by mistake). What was that? They set a no-fly zone up to 9750 meters. Why is it stupid? Because on that altitude the only weapon that can hit an aircraft which they "knew" terrorists had is heavy ground-air rocket which, what is obvious as hell, is not a limit for that rockets: rockets of that type can hit an aircraft without problems up to 13000 meters. So, what was this 9750 meters restriction is about? MH17 was shut down on the altitude of 10050 according to Ukraine officials. All this information which questions Ukraine adequacy regarding the "known terrorists threat" was deleted from the official report. In other words, Ukraine must had just set a no-fly zone up to the range of the heavy ground-air rockets (which Ukraine and US KNEW the "terrorists" got hold of) if they were caring for safety of the aircraft flying over Ukraine, but they hadn't. Why? US does not want us to ask that question.
MisterFalcon
Member
Is this the new official Russian story ? After insisting it was a Ukrainian jet for months it's suddely a rebel BUK after all which was simply forced to shoot down a Boeing by the US/Ukraine.
No, as you can read by the link above (google translate is always available if you do not read german), it is a story by Germain journalist who is inclined to the BUK version, which story is supported by Netherlands parliament member.
There's a thread on it as well, wishing there was more info out. :/
ymoc
Member
Yes yes, because I justified their agression, right?
And no, of course not, this like all other geopolitical games only has 1 party playing.
FUCK RUSSIA!
They were basically the first world's 'model' of moderate secular Islam. But the Islamic Fundamentalists are growing in power just like the Christian Fundamentalists in the west. It's affected the whole region, but populist movements are going back to God and the holy books. It'd be funny if this were a history class and not real life.
DiscoJer
Member
Christian Fundamentalism is growing in power in the West?
When I was a kid in the '70s and '80s, pretty much with it at its height, we had stores closed on Sundays and stickers placed on cds, and the drinking age raised to 21.
Hardly tyrannical, but it was annoying. But now we are seeing gay marriage, pot legalized, and while cds still have stickers and the drinking age is 21, at least stores are open on sunday (except liquor stores)
- Status