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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo

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Russian tanks have arrived ins Geo...the Ukraine

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Incognito said:
And the EU has been embarrassingly inept at all stages of the process.
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This basically can be said about any process ever. The EU is a sad joke, and I'm european.
 
This shit is getting heated. And Russia has the EU by its skittle balls. It looks like Russia is coming away from this with half the country and all the ports.
 
maquiladora said:
Howitzers, not tanks. They are meant for long range bombardment.
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The image clearly depicts them as tanks and I don't know the difference so I just went with it ;)

Jacobi said:
Let's fight Russia LOL, right? Some people in here.... Seriously...
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It's been a while, right? Let's just try it out and see what happenes, if we're about to loose or it starts getting annoying we can always just pay them ~500 Gold and Horses for peace.
 
The Federation Council will prepare a note to Putin asking him to withdraw Russia's ambassador to the US.
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Russia to US: "Kindly fuck off for a while will you, we're busy"
 
So, who's next? Molodova? Belarus? Or maybe some EU territory like Baltics, a lot of russian citizens to "protect" there? This is exactly why serious combined EU military force has to happen and it has to happen NOW.
 
avaya said:
Cold war restart. Sad times.
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Not really, the Cold War was two superpowers evenly matched jostling for power. You had communism and capitalism battling to be the dominant ideology on the planet. Two militaries participating in proxy wars against each other etc.

This is just a powerful nation, forcefully intimidating a smaller one and trying to regain it's sphere of influence and strengthen itself militarily for the future. This isn't really like the Cold War at all. When this is all said and done, just like the Georgia conflict was forgotten about, so to will this. Who knows what's to come. But Russia has all but cemented Western Ukraine and it's desire to join the EU.
 
Incognito said:
Thanks, man.

And the EU has been embarrassingly inept at all stages of the process.
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What is the EU supposed to do about this? It's an economic union first and foremost, not a military or foreign affairs union. That isn't and was never what the EU is about, and the council has no say in those matters at all.
 
Color.Morale said:
What will/can they do?
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Let Crimea go? I know far too little about this to just say "Eh, just give Crimea to Russia, who cares" but it seems inevitable anyway. The population of Crimea are more Russia than Ukraine as far as I know (which , like I said, doesn't mean much)
 
So this is either going to end with Ukraine being annexed into Russia without a single shot fired, or Ukraine being annexed by force.

My bet is on the former.
 
Madness said:
Not really, the Cold War was two superpowers evenly matched jostling for power. You had communism and capitalism battling to be the dominant ideology on the planet. Two militaries participating in proxy wars against each other etc.

This is just a powerful nation, forcefully intimidating a smaller one and trying to regain it's sphere of influence and strengthen itself militarily for the future. This isn't really like the Cold War at all. When this is all said and done, just like the Georgia conflict was forgotten about, so to will this. Who knows what's to come. But Russia has all but cemented Western Ukraine and it's desire to join the EU.
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Because partitioning a nation into East and West had nothing to do with the establishment of the cold war yeah? :P
 
Incognito said:
Thanks, man.

And the EU has been embarrassingly inept at all stages of the process.
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Agreed. The EU is simply hopeless and pathetic. Appeasement doesn't begin to describe them. We need an EU leadership with some actual balls. Herman Van Rompuy and his bloody Haiku poetry is making us the laughing stock of the world.
 
There's a ton of non-military things that can be done:

sanctions, bumping them down from MFN status, suspension / removal from the G8, boycott the G8 (or 7) meeting in Sochi, invite Finland into NATO should they want it, pull diplomats, freeze all Russian and Russian citizens' foreign assets, etc. Worst case a new cold war, if Russia wants to take the chance they'll actually win that one this time around.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
So this is either going to end with Ukraine being annexed into Russia without a single shot fired, or Ukraine being annexed by force.

My bet is on the former.
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Russia is not going to be annexing all of Ukraine, as that would be practically impossible to properly control. At most they will gain the more Russian areas to the east but even that might prove difficult to control as I believe Crimea is the only region in Ukraine that actually has a Russian majority.
 
Oriel said:
Agreed. The EU is simply hopeless and pathetic. Appeasement doesn't begin to describe them. We need an EU leadership with some actual balls. Herman Van Rompuy and his bloody Haiku poetry is making us the laughing stock of the world.
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Problem is that they take bloody forever to do anything. If they do anything at all. And I'm pro EU, but I think they are just fucking useless in situations like this.
 
Fantastapotamus said:
Let Crimea go? I know far too little about this to just say "Eh, just give Crimea to Russia, who cares" but it seems inevitable anyway. The population of Crimea are more Russia than Ukraine as far as I know (which , like I said, doesn't mean much)
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Yeah I think we can conclude that.
 
Osiris said:
Because partitioning a nation into East and West had nothing to do with the establishment of the cold war yeah? :P
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avaya said:
Was gonna say.
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Are you guys both serious? This isn't the German superpower defeated and being divided as per where the armies are. There has been no conflict with the US or even anyone from the EU. Russia is also not a economic superpower, it's not pushing any separate ideology, nor is it a military challenge for the US. So how is it a cold war restart? There's going to be no proxy wars, no arms or space race etc. America is already so far ahead, there is nothing Russia can do. You're more likely to see a possible cold war between the US and China than between Russia and the EU/US.
 
Madness said:
Are you guys both serious? This isn't the German superpower defeated and being divided as per where the armies are. There has been no conflict with the US or even anyone from the EU. Russia is also not a economic superpower, it's not pushing any separate ideology, nor is it a military challenge for the US. So how is it a cold war restart? There's going to be no proxy wars, no arms or space race etc. America is already so far ahead, there is nothing Russia can do. You're more likely to see a possible cold war between the US and China than between Russia and the EU/US.[
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How? Considering that China is more behind the US than Russia is. The only thing the Chinese have going for them is there ridiculously large population.
 
Madness said:
Are you guys both serious? This isn't the German superpower defeated and being divided as per where the armies are. There has been no conflict with the US or even anyone from the EU. Russia is also not a economic superpower, it's not pushing any separate ideology, nor is it a military challenge for the US. So how is it a cold war restart? There's going to be no proxy wars, no arms or space race etc. America is already so far ahead, there is nothing Russia can do. You're more likely to see a possible cold war between the US and China than between Russia and the EU/US.
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Cold war restart in the sense that relations between the west and Russia are headed down the shitter.
 
Oriel said:
Agreed. The EU is simply hopeless and pathetic. Appeasement doesn't begin to describe them. We need an EU leadership with some actual balls. Herman Van Rompuy and his bloody Haiku poetry is making us the laughing stock of the world.
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Even if you had someone more aggressive at the post, what exactly could he do? The EU can't really do anything as it's by design all up to the member states. If you want to use "EU" as shorthand for blaming the individual member countries for not doing anything then fine, but it's a bit silly actually be blaming EU institutions in this situation.
 
Baron Doggystyle von Woof said:
This. A total embarrassment to the European nations.
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What can we do? They aren't part of Nato or the EU. They are an independent country. Besides it's not like the EU didn't think this was going to happen. If anything it's actually good for them because they will have a willing EU partner without having to be pissed about by russia.
What's happening is another Georgia. The Russians will take the areas that are theirs and leave the rest.
On the other side of the coin Russia has just gone ahead and given a ready made excuse to the US to interfer with Syria. Today's land grab by Russia is thoroughly illegal in every manner of the word. They have invaded a sovereign country without even bothering with the UN security council. Anytime they want to talk shit to America about anything they want to do people can just beat them over the head with today's events. They have fucked up their credibility something royal and Putin has been shown to be the crazy bastard a lot of people suspected he was.
 
Fantastapotamus said:
Problem is that they take bloody forever to do anything. If they do anything at all. And I'm pro EU, but I think they are just fucking useless in situations like this.
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Pretty much. Europe is old, unwieldy and incapable of taking swift action when needed. Basically the EU needs a a complete overhaul because the way things are going it won't last in its current state.
 
Fantastapotamus said:
Let Crimea go? I know far too little about this to just say "Eh, just give Crimea to Russia, who cares" but it seems inevitable anyway. The population of Crimea are more Russia than Ukraine as far as I know (which , like I said, doesn't mean much)
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That wouldn't end well. Not only are 25% of the population Ukrainian, there are also 250,000 Tatars living in Crimea (more than 12% of the population) and they hate Russia with a passion as far as I know.
 
wsippel said:
That wouldn't end well. Not only are 25% of the population Ukrainian, there are also 250,000 Tatars living in Crimea (more than 12% of the population) and they hate Russia with a passion as far as I know.
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I can't really imagine any realistic situation right now that would end well for everybody...
 
Escape Goat said:
Yes. I'm saying there must be some mechanism for removing a country. If France started nuking Canada I doubt they'd let France remain.
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The only way would be a "League of Nations" solution part II, other members withdraw and effectively disband the UNSC.

Doubtful that would happen, certainly not over a situation as this, but I'm also sure that some LoN members thought in the 30's that the LoN would continue for a long time and nothing would change.
 
A. Merkel just replaced the heating in her house with gas powered one, so she is afraid to stay in cold building next winter
 
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