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[ksan]

It wasn't intention to whitewash this actions in any form. I would've also shitted on that contract in their position but the thing is that the EU now shouldn't act that surprised by what happened.

I didn't mean it to come off as accusing you of that
Just hard to accept the bitter reality of actual people justifying shit like that.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Be very interesting to see how the world reacts if Russia do unleash said 'storm'.

This is pretty scary.

I really hope they don't, that's barbaric and uncalled for, not to mention scary.

Things are coming to a head.

Oh boy. I hope this conflict can be resolved with cooler heads but this keeps escalating.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

That depends on whether the reports of pro-Russian protestors taking over Odessa are true, and if these pro-Russian protestors are really Russian forward troops as seemed to be the case in Crimea.

I wouldn't really say that. The people of Crimea are Russian and have always heavily supported Russia. It's probably a stretch to assume pro Russian's in Crimea are really a fifth column.

 

[Blablurn]

German newspaper bild.de just reported that russia gave ukraine a final ultimatum. if they dont drop their weapons till 4 am, they will attack. the source is interfax. apparently they heard that from circles of the ukrainian ministry of defense.

 

[ag-my001]

Yes Putin, protect those people from the Ukrainian military staying put in their own base.

The shamelessness of it all is almost unbelievable.

 

[Sephiroth503]

German newspaper bild.de just reported that russia gave ukraine a final ultimatum. if they dont drop their weapons till 4 am, they will attack. the source is interfax. apparently they heard that from circles of the ukrainian ministry of defense.

On Sky news as well. Not looking good.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

This is getting way out of hand. East ukraine next?

 

[Jhriad]

Did the US become a pariah for invading Afghanistan or Iraq or crumble economically due to these operations?

Neither country borders the US, is part of Europe, or had any semblance of a modern military. Invading Ukraine with the intent of annexing part or whole isn't comparable in this respect. Please don't pretend it is.

 

[Enkidu]

The thing is as follows:
Yanukovych and the opposition both signed a contract before the opposition decided to shit on this contract and thus, simply by international laws, Yanukovych is still the legitimate president of the Ukraine. Even in exile he is allowed to ask Putin for help in regards of Crimea which was until now an autonomous area and now asked to be independent from the Ukraine. This independency request needs to be agreed by the president... which is still Yanukovych - and he agreed. So Russia has a "justification" for this actions. The problem is, that the EU should have pushed the opposition to follow their own rules written down in said contract.

Contract is a bit of a strong word, but sure they signed an agreement. I don't think international law specifies how a country is supposed to elect it's president so it's not as simple as saying that Yanukovich is the president. Yanukovich fled the country, and the parliament acted to elect a new government. It's true that Yanukovich never did sign off on the laws which would allow him to be legally deposed since he was not around to do so, but the opposition did not exactly break the agreement. The protesters did not accept it, but they also did not sign it. Both sides promised to try and normalize the situation but since the opposition did not control the protesters they obviously could not simply get the protests to stop, hence why Yanukovich fled.

 

[rokero]

this is getting fucking crazy I doubt anything will happen now that there's a Russia/China alliance they'd be crazy to go against that

 

[Yawnier]

German newspaper bild.de just reported that russia gave ukraine a final ultimatum. if they dont drop their weapons till 4 am, they will attack. the source is interfax. apparently they heard that from circles of the ukrainian ministry of defense.

So uh, what are the chances of Russia going back on this if Ukraine don't drop their weapons by that time? Very low?

 

[Jackpot]

Ultimatum might be misinfo.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/ukraine-crisis-russia-control-crimea-live

A source in the Ukrainian defence ministry has told the Guardian’s, Shaun Walker, in Crimea, that he has heard nothing about an ultimatum that has reportedly been posed to Ukrainian forces in the region to surrender before 3am GMT or face an assault. Shaun writes:

"He is not that senior but says he’s on a base right now and neither he nor the base commanders have heard anything of the sort. He said: “It’s probably another red herring to stir up trouble.”

Also, it seems to be coming from Russian interfax, quoting Ukrainian Interior Ministry. That should ring some alarm bells, folks.

 

[crozier]

I don't think Russia cares about taking over the whole of Ukraine. My guess is they simply want to maintain a buffer between Europe and NATO. Which either means annexing a part of it (although they wouldn't dare call it that) or supporting a separatist movement with the rationalization that Russians wouldn't have a political voice in the new Ukraine.

 

[Skinpop]

this is getting fucking crazy I doubt anything will happen now that there's a Russia/China alliance they'd be crazy to go against that

it's not an alliance is it? More like china just siding with russia(who expected them to do anything else)?

 

[The_Inquisitor]

it's not an alliance is it? More like china just siding with russia(who expected them to do anything else)?

I guarantee China is not happy at all with this. Likely in the background China is pushing back against Russia.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Neither country borders the US, is part of Europe, or had any semblance of a modern military. Invading Ukraine with the intent of annexing part or whole isn't comparable in this respect. Please don't pretend it is.

Yeah, the US gallivanting across the globe to countries it has even less involvement with and involving itself in bloody conflicts to enforce a unilateral regime change is way worse.

 

[rokero]

it's not an alliance is it? More like china just siding with russia(who expected them to do anything else)?

your right but there's also saying, where there's smoke, there's fire
   

 

[syllogism]

Ultimatum might be misinfo.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/ukraine-crisis-russia-control-crimea-live

BBC:

15:58: The press office for the Ukraine defence ministry in Crimea confirms to the BBC that an ultimatum from Russia's Black Sea Fleet has been delivered. The Russian naval forces are said to have given Ukraine's forces in the region until 05:00 local time (03:00 GMT) to surrender or else face an all-out assault.

 

[crozier]

I guarantee China is not happy at all with this. Likely in the background China is pushing back against Russia.

China largely blames the West for this mess. They've already voiced their support for Russia.

 

[Skinpop]

your right but there's also saying, where there's smoke, there's fire
   

Well China share borders with russia, I don't think they wan't to inflame the situation further.

 

[ISOM]

BBC:

In all of Ukraine or just Crimea?

 

[Meadows]

In all of Ukraine or just Crimea?

Crimea

 

[zeroOman]

World War III is coming guys get ready

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Guardian says no, BBC says yes.

Dat propaganda

 

[The Horror the horror]

I guarantee China is not happy at all with this. Likely in the background China is pushing back against Russia.

Why would China care? China's not very happy with the U.S.'s attitude and position with regard to its territorial claim over its waters, so if anything they could see this situation as leverage to settle that particular issue.

 

[Dyno]

"It is quite understandable when Putin said his country retained the right to protect its interests and Russian-speakers living in Ukraine," Lu wrote.

This is the line that kills me. So now proficiency in a language makes you a pawn in a land grab. There are many speakers of Cantonese in Vancouver, they even teach it in schools. Is China justified in forming a beach-head at English Bay?


What a joke. I really wish NATO could do something decisive about this. Both Russia and China are going to be flapping their dicks around that side of the world for the rest of our lives. It's already an ongoing thing, they're grabbing land and water whenever they can.

 

[Psychotext]

Yes Putin, protect those people from the Ukrainian military staying put in their own base.

The shamelessness of it all is almost unbelievable.

Indeed. What's more disgusting is that people seem to be lining up to defend their actions. Just makes me shake my head in disbelief.

 

[CrunchyB]

China largely blames the West for this mess. They've already voiced their support for Russia.

It's more complicated than that. China doesn't like foreign intervention in general, but doesn't want to endanger ties with Putin. So they are sending a mixed message.

EU/US knows they could have handled things better, so China's criticism is not unexpected.

This is the line that kills me. So now proficiency in a language makes you a pawn in a land grab. There are many speakers of Cantonese in Vancouver, they even teach it in schools. Is China justified in forming a beach-head at English Bay?

I don't see why not! You only need a 58% majority apparently. No need for a vote either, just start raising flags!

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

This is the line that kills me. So now proficiency in a language makes you a pawn in a land grab. There are many speakers of Cantonese in Vancouver, they even teach it in schools. Is China justified in forming a beach-head at English Bay?

I imagine what he meant by "Russian Speakers" he meant actual Russians, since that's who the Crimeans are and is partially Russia's justification for having soldiers there.


ed

^^^

Pretty much. China was victim to a century or two of foreign intervention and entanglement and that heavily influences their politics.

 

[pulsemyne]

lol at Merkals comment to Obama about Putin.

“She was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said. ‘In another world,’ she said,” the New York Times reported.

You know you done goofed when World leaders call you mad.

 

[Mr. RHC]

Guardian says no, BBC says yes.

Dat propaganda

Whoever got the news right = decent journalism. Rest: bad journalism.

 

[Atenhaus]

This is the line that kills me. So now proficiency in a language makes you a pawn in a land grab. There are many speakers of Cantonese in Vancouver, they even teach it in schools. Is China justified in forming a beach-head at English Bay?


What a joke. I really wish NATO could do something decisive about this. Both Russia and China are going to be flapping their dicks around that side of the world for the rest of our lives. It's already an ongoing thing, they're grabbing land and water whenever they can.

Haven't you heard? The Chinese boats are already sailing through the Strait of Juan de Fuca on their way to the Lower Mainland.

Anyway, is anyone really surprised the Chinese are backing the Russians on this? In "conflicts" with the West over the past few years, the Russians and Chinese have categorically backed each other as a force against the US and EU. It's simple geopolitics in play.

 

[LiK]

This is the line that kills me. So now proficiency in a language makes you a pawn in a land grab. There are many speakers of Cantonese in Vancouver, they even teach it in schools. Is China justified in forming a beach-head at English Bay?


What a joke. I really wish NATO could do something decisive about this. Both Russia and China are going to be flapping their dicks around that side of the world for the rest of our lives. It's already an ongoing thing, they're grabbing land and water whenever they can.

Yup, language doesn't mean you have the right to barge in and take over.

 

[Byakuya769]

Yeah, the US gallivanting across the globe to countries it has even less involvement with and involving itself in bloody conflicts to enforce a unilateral regime change is way worse.

Ukrainian government is aiding and abetting terrorists who carry out large attacks on Russia? Because that's what pulled us into Afghanistan. Comparing Iraq, a country ran by a brutal regime and a despot to a bloodless revolution in an allied country that western nations AND RUSSIA have viewed to protect and respect the integrity of is disingenuous, too. We certainly created some false pretense with Iraq, but I think it's pretty disrespectful to compare Ukraine's opposition to Saddam Hussein basically.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

China's comment is interesting because of their highlighting of Russia's "unique role" regarding Ukraine. Reads to me they want to help undermine norms against invasion and promote this "sphere of influence" doctrine which allows a regional hegemon to act with impunity violating their neighborhoods rights.

It should be frightening to their south east Asian neighbors especially those with territorial disputes.

 

[FrozenCell]

 

[avaya]

Putin wants his new Eurasian Union. It is nothing without Ukraine. Make no mistake he will take as much of Ukraine as possible - Balkanised or not.

Shit is mental. EU will do jackshit, US can't do jackshit. He got Nukes. 'Fuck yo' couch' as Rick James would say.

 

[Kinyou]

Yup, language doesn't mean you have the right to barge in and take over.

Oh god, the USA is going to invade the UK

 

[Dictator93]

I am actually kind of scared of what is happening.

I can scarcely understand why anyone would want to risk war here. I also cannot understand why Russia would issue this ultimatum without preknowledge that, jesus, this could escalate in ways no one would ever want to see happen.

Stuff is getting scary guys.

 

[Darksol]

Guardian says no, BBC says yes.

Dat propaganda

Huffington Post says yes, TIME says yes too

 

[Elchele]

In an ideal world, this would be a perfect opportunity to make Russia an example of what happens if you violate foreign land. But in reality it will only show that if you're big enough, you get a free pass to do shit you want.

I guess the world will never learn you can't allow countries to pull shit like this. I guess WWII was too long ago already.

 

[PJV3]

lol at Merkals comment to Obama about Putin.

“She was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said. ‘In another world,’ she said,” the New York Times reported.

You know you done goofed when World leaders call you mad.

Lovely, we have a loon in the Kremlin, nice to know.

 

[ISOM]

China's comment is interesting because of their highlighting of Russia's "unique role" regarding Ukraine. Reads to me they want to help undermine norms against invasion and promote this "sphere of influence" doctrine which allows a regional hegemon to act with impunity violating their neighborhoods rights.

It should be frightening to their south east Asian neighbors especially those with territorial disputes.

I think what China could do to it's neighbors is limited in comparisons to what the Russians are doing to Ukraine. China can't just up and invade Vietnam to annex some territory. The only country where I could see china doing something similar is Taiwan because of the ethnic ties and history involved, which is somewhat similar to the Ukraine situation. But Taiwan and China have grown closer so I don't see that happening so it's not likely anytime soon.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Ukrainian government is aiding and abetting terrorists who carry out large attacks on Russia? Because that's what pulled us into Afghanistan. Comparing Iraq, a country ran by a brutal regime and a despot to a bloodless revolution in an allied country that western nations AND RUSSIA have viewed to protect and respect the integrity of is disingenuous, too. We certainly created some false pretense with Iraq, but I think it's pretty disrespectful to compare Ukraine's opposition to Saddam Hussein basically.

I'm not the one who started making comparisons.

 

[Darksol]

Oh god, the USA is going to invade the UK

The Japanese are going to take over Vancouver!

 

[Kinyou]

lol at Merkals comment to Obama about Putin.

“She was not sure he was in touch with reality, people briefed on the call said. ‘In another world,’ she said,” the New York Times reported.

You know you done goofed when World leaders call you mad.

Someone call Schröder, maybe he can talk some sense into Putin. Guys were best buddies.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I think what China could do to it's neighbors is limited in comparisons to what the Russians are doing to Ukraine. China can't just up and invade vietnam to annex some territory. The only country where I could see china doing something similar is Taiwan because of the ethnic ties and history inovlved. But Taiwan and China have grown closer so I don't see that happening so it's not likely anytime soon.

Oh I don't think they have plans like Russia. It is different. Just that they want the norm to allow them to have that option in the future. Especially regarding islands and trade routes. Not necessarily land.

Its also why they oppose intervention to support protests. Its all about does the situation establish a norm where china can benefit.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

Someone call Schröder, maybe he can talk some sense into Putin. Guys were best buddies.

When I first scrolled by, I thought Pooty Poo was giving him the old tug.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Lovely, we have a loon in the Kremlin, nice to know.

Because Angela Merkel says so? Putin has always shown that his thinking is razor sharp.

 

[Oersted]

German newspaper bild.de just reported that russia gave ukraine a final ultimatum. if they dont drop their weapons till 4 am, they will attack. the source is interfax. apparently they heard that from circles of the ukrainian ministry of defense.

Bild is in bed with Konrad- Adenauer-Stiftung. They have an agenda.