Ether_Snake
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Either he is hiding, or he is dead. Kinda weird that the Russians just said "we have a letter from him, look!", but he himself has disappeared.
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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo
- Thread starter Salvadora
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There is a special reason for the letter though. On march 28th from Russia he specifically said in a press conference when asked what he thinks Russia should do.
He spoke out against the plans of Russia.
Partial Gamification
Banned
It definitely seems strange.
I also see that there are other sources citing a Micheal Swan as the person that broke this news. Is Lebed's a repost or is Swan just his activist name?
Maybe he's with Edward Sowden.
rokkerkory
Member
My thoughts are with you Ukranians! Fight for your freedom and independence.
He's talking about the actual word фашисты in Russian, which refers specifically to the Third Reich. If you hear anyone talk about The Great Patriotic War (what we call WWII), the nazis are almost invariably revered to as "the fascists". "The fascists invaded Russia", "we beat the fascists at Leningrad", "we captured the fascist's capitol", etc. That is, today it is used to describe anything that goes against Russia's own culture and/or power structure. It's like how in the US, any bill that isn't put forward by Paul Ryan or Michelle Bachmann is "a communist plot", regardless of its actual content.
And a nice little reminder of -- beyond the information war -- what is actually happening on the ground in Western Ukraine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE-E3XpI9rM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE-E3XpI9rM
dripdripsplash
Member
Can you maybe elaborate on the content of the video or paraphrase what they are actually saying ?
Speaking of Putin being scary and/or a bad-ass, here is a classic exchange about circumcision...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB9ZQ5doRi8
Phoenix
Member
Very well said. Russia doesn't want a Western friendly state right on their border for a variety of reasons and they aren't going to just roll over for it. The simple truth is that the old Pact states see the EU as more successful and want to head in that direction as Russia, the corruption, the economy, etc. are just keeping them back. They've had a taste of what COULD be and they don't really want to go back.
The question is whether or not they are willing to spill blood for it.
The 'people' are getting their information primarily from the Western media. The same sources spent the first days after Yanukovych's removal explaining why in very clear terms Russia would not take Crimea.
They're now playing it out into some kind of new Cold War between the civilized, democratic West and the 19th-century-style Russian autocracy. In truth, Putin is performing for a domestic audience, and it is working very, very well.
Phoenix
Member
I find it interesting that when we take the more hands off role and focus on home that most Americans have been asking for, people consider it weakness. In this situation Putin has all the cards and he isn't the type of person you're going to "pressure" into not acting. If he desires to act, he'll do it regardless of the immediate consequences. He knows that as much as the G7 will whine and complain, if he takes the territory - he will largely be able to do it without much military opposition. His only real decision is whether or not he can weather the storm economically - that's it.
ALL of the cards are in Putin's hands because he has a shitload of military machinery at his disposal and the ability to get what he wants. While the G7 can complain - NATO isn't going to war for the Ukraine; not by a long shot... and everyone on capital hill knows it.
Ether_Snake
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But are you an expert?
edit: So far nothing is playing in Putin's hands. China told Russia to respect Ukraine's territory, no one is supporting them, even ousted president Yanukovych said he didn't want Russian troops to go in Ukraine. No one is supporting Russia on this.
CitizenVectron
Member
I don't understand how people can pretend to understand the situation and it's subtleties and still call the country "The Ukraine."
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The country was referred to as The Ukraine for a long time. Its only in the 90s that they started to drop the article. Its fine to correct them but its more about just being used to something else. When I first learned geography I learned it as The Ukraine. I still slip up. Hell, I sometimes think Zaire is still is country. People still use Kiev too even when the 'official translation' is Kyiv now
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Some people still use "Constantinople" (me)
Lol@the rest of the panel getting the translation and wondering what the fuck he just said.
bonesmccoy
Banned
Seeking out international affirmation has obviously never been seen as a primary, or even secondary, objective by Putin et al here. They are fully aware that as far as credibility and reputation go, Russia lost everything when the decision was made to occupy Crimea. And that should behoove us - most especially the NATO boosters - to remember that these actions are viewed by Russia as completely necessary.
Soyongdori
Member
Dat awkward silence at the end killed me.
dude man, that's nobody's business.
I still call it New Amsterdam.
Can we get a translation/summary on this? Why are people still dressed up in all their Maidan jazz?
Cities this old probably have more than enough history to warrant a myriad of names.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I'm still pissed about Persia -> Iran tbh. I wonder if Germans will ever start getting upset and ask the world to refer to them as Deutche.
Man, just imagine if Obama had actually ridden that wave of 08 into really reforming Wall Street. Sure, it was dicey then and nobody even wanted to breath in the direction of Wall Street as things were volatile, but still...SOMETHING could have been done. Dodd Frank just gave us lawyers something to bill on.
And eff, what is this talk about "an off ramp on the course...yada yada" tag line over the news tonight? Putin drove on the highway knowing what would happen. Geesh, Im not sure he is look for the off ramp just yet.
And also, I heard some other talks about "It will get interesting if he enters Eastern Ukraine." Really? It will? Because they are already in the Ukraine!
In any event, are we taking bets on whether Crimea is staying with Russia? I got 4 to one its staying in Russia's hands.
It's worse in spanish speaking countries that call them "Alemania" (Alemany?). I mean, why?
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I'm pretty sure "Japan" is derived from the Chinese word for their country, not from the Japanese one too. Nipon and all that. There's actually a map from the time of Captain Cook's voyages with Japan labelled "Niphon" and Korea labelled "Corea". Also, India as "Hindhustan".
Persia was heaps cooler.
Named after the Alemanni, an early medieval Germanic confederation.
bonesmccoy
Banned
What's the etymology of Germany and Allemagne/Alemania?
pre-edit: no i am not googling it
real edit: Thanks, sphagnum!
NYCmetsfan
Banned
There's like 6 versions from where languages get their word for Germany
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany
Yes! Persia has such an awesome history it sucks the current government isn't too keen on it.
Also why do we have to call it Cote d'Ivoire? I ain't French.
Allemagne was already answered, but the English "Germany" comes from the Greco-Roman term "Germania".
PhoenixDark
Banned
You're going to pretend real Wall Street reform would have passed the senate/house in 2011? Scott Brown alone ensured the process was fucked, although the bill does have some good stuff in it. Obama isn't the problem, even though he is clearly a corporatist. If you want progressive bills to pass, elect progressive legislators to write the bills.
Days in and still no word from the hand wringers (in the media) on what the US/Obama should do. Letting Putin embarrass himself seems to be working to me.
Soyongdori
Member
Sorry, but Constantine's legacy disappeared when the crusaders sacked the entire city a century before Turks did. What turks got at the end is just a former shell of a once great city.
bonesmccoy
Banned
I hate myself now, because I knew this. Jacob, I thank you.
Nippon is prounouced Niphon?
( ! _ ! )
Yes, but those Byzantines elites were tricksy bastards.
Yugoslavia -> Croatia, Kosovo, Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Slovenia, Macedonia. Damn, would've been one of the best basketball and soccer teams in the world.
Russia firing the ICBM was obviously a show of force and a middle finger to the EU, U.S. and West in general. Sure it was planned months ago but they could've called it off. Putin and the Russian government will exert there control wherever and as much as possible. All powers that be will do that when the chance is given. Geopolitics is always fascinating but Ukraine will not be the same country geographically as it is now. Hopefully it stops in Crimea but I personally think on more region in the east will be added.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out, but one thing is for sure, the Western Allied Governments (U.S., E.U., Canada, Australia) cannot and will not intervene. Russia will exert its power as much as it can.
Russia firing the ICBM was obviously a show of force and a middle finger to the EU, U.S. and West in general. Sure it was planned months ago but they could've called it off. Putin and the Russian government will exert there control wherever and as much as possible. All powers that be will do that when the chance is given. Geopolitics is always fascinating but Ukraine will not be the same country geographically as it is now. Hopefully it stops in Crimea but I personally think on more region in the east will be added.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out, but one thing is for sure, the Western Allied Governments (U.S., E.U., Canada, Australia) cannot and will not intervene. Russia will exert its power as much as it can.
Bingo. Idiot western crusaders were the real death of the Byzantine Empire. The successor state founded by the Palailogoi was really a reconquista by the "Nicaean Empire", not an organic continuation of the Eastern Roman state and its basileis.
The Ottomans at least made the place nice again.
Nice to see someone else who appreciates the old names rooted in history.
I still refer to some areas as the Holy Roman Empire. Fine, I don't but but I like to play as them in Total War games!
Soyongdori
Member
There was a song about this.. but I forgot.
pigeon interrupted
Member
You folks might enjoy these docs. Might be quite the eye-opener to the world we live in and give you reasonable datum, not sure though about that.
The back and forth is centuries old. Having a balanced view--check opposing media to do a bit of noise cancellation then through I]control[/I] nation's media. Let me know if there are any inaccuracies, if you spot them.
The truth will still be somewhere in-between, a smaller margin at least. Then understand why getting angry is not really conducive to solving this situation. I don't know if that has ever been a consideration. The ties the bind are messy and bloody but not inescapable I hope.
Let me know if they are not allowed or take em down, off to work :'(
here linky
The back and forth is centuries old. Having a balanced view--check opposing media to do a bit of noise cancellation then through I]control[/I] nation's media. Let me know if there are any inaccuracies, if you spot them.
The truth will still be somewhere in-between, a smaller margin at least. Then understand why getting angry is not really conducive to solving this situation. I don't know if that has ever been a consideration. The ties the bind are messy and bloody but not inescapable I hope.
Let me know if they are not allowed or take em down, off to work :'(
here linky
Don't leave out Tartarstan.. only fair in this thread.
No, but more could have been done. Stronger leadership could have helped this process. (And remember, I said 2008). Obama focused on Obamacare (not debating whether this was a good idea or not). I am not, NOT going to let Obama and democrats off the hook for squandering and opportunity for institutional reform of Wall Street. "Some good stuff in it" sure, is okay, but could have been so much more.
Regardless, this isn't the thread for that debate. I was just agreeing with commideu.
That dude does not look embarrassed at all. He invaded a country without a shot fired, and no one is doing anything about it. There is no way "embarrassment" will lead to him pulling out of the Ukraine.
That said, I don't have a HUGE problem that the West is taking some time to formulate a calculated response. But as days goes by, that problem does become bigger.
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