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[Karsticles]

Trish spending most of her time in flight mode is probably the reason why it shouldn't be too good to begin with. Many characters already struggle against her big time.

I would agree, except we're adding a lot of anti-airs to the game. That means Flight needs to be a little safer. Otherwise no one will fly in a sea of Energy Javelins, Tracking Purification, Tracking Double Typhoon, Vajra, and Meteor Smashes.

 

["God's Beard!"]

8 durability will plow through Soul Fist and hit Morrigan. 10 means it will negate beam assists and keep going. I think 8 is the right number to balance the idea out.

Trish spends half of her time in flight mode; I want flight buffed in general for most characters. I think the only characters I didn't buff flight on are Morrigan and Dormammu. Morrigan, because...that would absurd. And Dormammu because his flight should be a little unsafe considering what he uses it for.

That's the point. Low Voltage H starts up 10 frames faster and has 9 durability. Why am I going to use Round Trip? It should be Trish's durability tool. If you buff Low Voltage she's too good. But Round Trip can be fought around.

Again, we should be focusing on viability, not changing the game to the style you want. This is a balance patch. Think about what problems the characters have first before adding changes for funsies.

I would agree, except we're adding a lot of anti-airs to the game. That means Flight needs to be a little safer. Otherwise no one will fly in a sea of Energy Javelins, Tracking Purification, Tracking Double Typhoon, Vajra, and Meteor Smashes.

Your dream for this game sounds really not fun.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73011426]That's the point. Low Voltage H starts up 10 frames faster and has 9 durability. Why am I going to use Round Trip? It should be Trish's durability tool. If you buff Low Voltage she's too good. But Round Trip can be fought around.[/quote]Round Trip isn't a firefight tool, it's a lockdown tool against rushdown to give her more firefight power. It only needs enough durability to get rid of something like Plasma Beam and still hit Wolverine, and since Plasma Beam generally hits 6 times at mid-screen, 8 is the perfect number. You already said that Low Voltage has high durability; that's her durability tool.

Again, we should be focusing on viability, not changing the game to the style you want. This is a balance patch. Think about what problems the characters have first before adding changes for funsies.

That was my thought to you. "Sparda is a powerful sword in the DMC universe so the move should be better!"

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73011426]Your dream for this game sounds really not fun.[/QUOTE]
Nearly every team needs an anti-air assist in this game, but only a few exist, and they don't go well with a lot of characters. I'm just adding more options for the sake of team diversity. I'm sorry if being able to superjump and spam Magnetic Blast all day against characters with no anti-airs is better to you than having to be aggressive and work through things that can hurt you. Anti-airs hurt my mains more than anyone else's on here. I'm not biased in this.

 

[Dahbomb]

I would agree, except we're adding a lot of anti-airs to the game. That means Flight needs to be a little safer. Otherwise no one will fly in a sea of Energy Javelins, Tracking Purification, Tracking Double Typhoon, Vajra, and Meteor Smashes.

Yea but we are also giving her other buffs too.

Also I think Doom needs a point buff. Right now he is going to fall the hardest when everything is being changed. Stuff like j.S and combos weren't gonna change this, he needs something better in the neutral

 

["God's Beard!"]

You already said that Low Voltage has high durability; that's her durability tool.

No, I said that all her moves have low durability.

High Voltage H is shit compared to other characters. Other characters get 12 and don't lose 2/3rds of their attack and have the 3rd whiff when they're fighting. You could give Low Voltage 4 durability per shot and it'd still suck but if you give it 5 she's too good.

That was my thought to you. "Sparda is a powerful sword in the DMC universe so the move should be better!"

I don't give a flying fuck about DMC. I'm not a big fan of the series. I'm just trying to figure out how to fix Trish's durability without making her dominate everybody.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73012501]No, I said that all her moves have low durability.

High Voltage H is shit compared to other characters. Other characters get 12 and don't lose 2/3rds of their attack and have the 3rd whiff when they're fighting. You could give Low Voltage 4 durability per shot and it'd still suck but if you give it 5 she's too good.[/QUOTE]
We're widening the hitbox on it so more of the bolts hit, and I reduced the recovery so it's more usable in a firefight. It's a good move that needs some adjustments, and it is her firefight tool.

I'm curious about what Frantic thinks, since he is a Trish main.

 

[Frantic]

Round Trip needs to not disappear when it touches every projectile if you want to increase the durability. You can have a 1 low durability projectile touch it and it goes back to Trish, just like Vergil's and Cap's Shield Slash.

Also, s.L doesn't need 4 frames, j.S doesn't need a bigger hitbox, minimum air dash height does not need to be lowered, and Hopscotch already has a ton of hitstun.

My suggestions

+ Opponent's untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
+ Peekaboo has 80 frames of set hitstun. Decreases by 10 frames per every use in a combo.

What Low Voltage needs more than anything is better startup or recovery, imo. Maybe startup reduction too, but as far as durability goes, Low Voltage M and H tend to fly over most projectiles for a trade so it's not terrible in a firefight. Not great, but not terrible.

 

["God's Beard!"]

We're widening the hitbox on it so more of the bolts hit, and I reduced the recovery so it's more usable in a firefight. It's a good move that needs some adjustments, and it is her firefight tool.

Ok, then make it 4 points on each projectile, except 5 on the L version.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Leave Doom's OTG normals alone. His OTG launches is how he combos. Think his j,S is fine and the top of his head is vulnerable.
If Doom assist is hit while firing missiles, they explode immediately.

I don't know a thing about Thor. He needs a better throw game. Maybe give his regular and command throw the same hard knockdown time as Nova so he can Mighty Smash into a combo. I feel like armor turns him into a flying hulk.

 

[Dahbomb]

Hey that was my line!

I definitely agree that Trish does not need 4 frame jab, less height restriction and a better j.S. I am also wary of dive kick cancelable into dash.

Obviously RT needs to be improved and Low Voltage should be improved slightly.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I don't know a thing about Thor. He needs a better throw game. Maybe give his regular and command throw the same hard knockdown time as Nova so he can Mighty Smash into a combo. I feel like armor turns him into a flying hulk.

He is a flying Hulk. Mighty Strike is his main move. And it already has armor.

 

[Karsticles]

Round Trip needs to not disappear when it touches every projectile if you want to increase the durability. You can have a 1 low durability projectile touch it and it goes back to Trish, just like Vergil's and Cap's Shield Slash.

Also, s.L doesn't need 4 frames, j.S doesn't need a bigger hitbox, minimum air dash height does not need to be lowered, and Hopscotch already has a ton of hitstun.

My suggestions

+ Opponent's untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
+ Peekaboo has 80 frames of set hitstun. Decreases by 10 frames per every use in a combo.

What Low Voltage needs more than anything is better startup or recovery, imo. Maybe startup reduction too, but as far as durability goes, Low Voltage M and H tend to fly over most projectiles for a trade so it's not terrible in a firefight. Not great, but not terrible.

I can't get behind the Peekaboo change. That means you could do Peekaboo, s.H, and then loop that a good 3-4 times probably. I get where you are coming from, and I applaud the spirit, but not the implementation.

I gave Hopscotch more hitstun so she can have better superjump level conversions.

Leave Doom's OTG normals alone. His OTG launches is how he combos. Think his j,S is fine and the top of his head is vulnerable.
If Doom assist is hit while firing missiles, they explode immediately.

I don't know a thing about Thor. He needs a better throw game. Maybe give his regular and command throw the same hard knockdown time as Nova so he can Mighty Smash into a combo. I feel like armor turns him into a flying hulk.

Doom does a lot of damage right now, and one way we can reduce his damage slightly is by nerfing how many times he can OTG relaunch. The goal isn't to prevent him from OTG relaunching, but to maybe decrease the number of loops by 1.

No go on the Hidden Missiles nerf; it's too much.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yea that Peakaboo change is kinda optimistic. If she has an OTG Hopscotch and better SJ height combos she is completely set in terms of combos.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73013706]He is a flying Hulk. Mighty Strike is his main move. And it already has armor.[/QUOTE]

I thought his gameplan was a flying grappler, like zangief with wings.

 

[Dahbomb]

Also I think Doom needs a couple of simple point buffs. With everyone getting buffed his point game is going to look extremely mediocre.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I thought his gameplan was a flying grappler, like zangief with wings.

Mighty Strike is how he gets in grappling range. That's why his ground dash is so terrible. Because he has two airdashes.

If you ignore every other change, my Mighty Strike change almone would make him a viable character.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

I thought his gameplan was a flying grappler, like zangief with wings.

Doom does a lot of damage right now, and one way we can reduce his damage slightly is by nerfing how many times he can OTG relaunch. The goal isn't to prevent him from OTG relaunching, but to maybe decrease the number of loops by 1.

No go on the Hidden Missiles nerf; it's too much.

Think of the swag....
I used Doom and know that HM is BS. The missles should at least delay explode (can hurt opponent) if assist is hit but tracking lost works too i guess.

 

[Frantic]

I can't get behind the Peekaboo change. That means you could do Peekaboo, s.H, and then loop that a good 3-4 times probably. I get where you are coming from, and I applaud the spirit, but not the implementation.

And do what? 250k damage? Peekaboo scales her combos down really fast, and it's more about confirmation into decent combos than it will be about using it for damage. That and maybe give her some actual creative combos(that don't do a ton of damage) instead of the same one over and over and over. The way I have it set up also removes her XF3 pseudo infinite too, so it's not that great.

If anything, make it 60 frames of hitstun and go from there. 80 might be a bit too high.

I gave Hopscotch more hitstun so she can have better superjump level conversions.

The problem isn't hitstun, it's travel time. Which I'm fine with the proposed change of faster travel time, but the hitstun is irrelevant. It already is her highest hitstun move, and it has the same amount of hitstun from the beginning of a combo to a 300 hit combo.

If anything, make it so she can combo off a grounded Hopscotch.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I gave Hopscotch more hitstun so she can have better superjump level conversions.

You don't know that's true, though. I actually tested her divekick being dash cancelable. It definitely works.

 

[DeadPhoenix9065]

Trish:
*Trick “Hopscotch” travel time and hitstun increased; now OTGs.
*Flight startup reduced to 15 frames.
*s.L reduced to 4 frames.
*High Voltage creates a small vacuum effect to ensure more hits connect.
*Duet Pain now hits OTG.
*Low Voltage recovery reduced to 30 across the board; hitboxes widened.
*Sign Switch H now causes Sparda to home in on the opponent.
*Minimum air dash height reduced from 8 to 7 frames.
*j.S hitbox increased for cross-ups.

Assists: Low Voltage H, Trick “Peekaboo”, Trick “Hopscotch”

Can she have a new move where she can stick Sparda into the ground to fight hand to hand, be able to call it back and it come back to her as a round trip?
Would act as a trap of sorts. If she blocks at any time Sparda flies back to act as a shield like any time she blocks during round trip and Round Harvest.

 

[Karsticles]

Also I think Doom needs a couple of simple point buffs. With everyone getting buffed his point game is going to look extremely mediocre.

Please do suggest something. I'm probably one of the few people who doesn't think Doom is too strong.

Think of the swag....
I used Doom and know that HM is BS. The missles should at least delay explode (can hurt opponent) if assist is hit but tracking lost works too i guess.

We're trying to limit long combos a bit, too. Doom's most swag stuff doesn't require OTG stuff. That's the non-swag stuff.

Hidden Missiles was on my Vanilla launch team. I know how good it is.

And do what? 250k damage? Peekaboo scales her combos down really fast, and it's more about confirmation into decent combos than it will be about using it for damage. That and maybe give her some actual creative combos(that don't do a ton of damage) instead of the same one over and over and over. The way I have it set up also removes her XF3 pseudo infinite too, so it's not that great.

If anything, make it 60 frames of hitstun and go from there. 80 might be a bit too high.

The problem isn't hitstun, it's travel time. Which I'm fine with the proposed change of increased travel time, but the hitstun is irrelevant. It already is her highest hitstun move, and it has the same amount of hitstun from the beginning of a combo to a 300 hit combo.

If anything, make it so she can combo off a grounded Hopscotch easier.

Give me patch note wording to work with. I dislike having to translate everyone's suggestions into patch notes. I'm the record keeper, not the translator.

Can she have a new move where she can stick Sparda into the ground to fight hand to hand, be able to call it back and it come back to her as a round trip?
Would act as a trap of sorts. If she blocks at any time Sparda flies back to act as a shield like any time she blocks during round trip and Round Harvest.

I'm disinclined to add new moves.

 

[Dahbomb]

I really can't seem to find a way to make point Doom better or at least more interesting. The character was already getting close to being assist/support tier and we striped him of that. Still very good as a support/assist but many characters are close to him now and provide a more dominating point game. If Doom doesn't get any legit buffs he is Mid tier at best.

Reverting Foot Dive and quad relaunch combos is not going to fix this. I am talking strictly neutral game tools.

 

[Karsticles]

I really can't seem to find a way to make point Doom better or at least more interesting. The character was already getting close to being assist/support tier and we striped him of that. Still very good as a support/assist but many characters are close to him now and provide a more dominating point game. If Doom doesn't get any legit buffs he is Mid tier at best.

Increase the hitstun on butter gun. Kappa.

What if Hidden Missiles were special cancelable.

 

[Dahbomb]

Butter gun already has great hit stun, he gets combos off of it.

Hidden Missile special cancelable? I would say its definitely very interesting but I don't know if it would be too good. This would really really help his throw OS game.

At the bare minimum it should be hyper cancelable. Right now you can only THC cancel it.

 

[Frantic]

Give me patch note wording to work with. I dislike having to translate everyone's suggestions into patch notes. I'm the record keeper, not the translator.

Peekaboo currently has 54 frames of hitstun off a clean hit, so I suppose:

+ Trick "Peekaboo" causes a set amount of 60 frame hitstun, decreasing by 10 frames every use in a combo.

This will give it a decent amount of combo use, since as it is the hitstun drops so rapidly you can't even combo after it after three-four hits.

As for Hopscotch... I'm not really sure what to do with it to make it easier to combo after a grounded hit without making the recovery faster than it already is. Maybe cause a stagger on counterhit?


Also, can we remove the 'Foot Dive' crosses up in the corner for j.S? I don't mind it with j.H for setups, but j.S crossing up is just guess work.

 

[Karsticles]

Also, can we remove the 'Foot Dive' crosses up in the corner for j.S? I don't mind it with j.H for setups, but j.S crossing up is just guess work.

Why do you guys keep hating on a bad point character? :-(

 

[Sigmaah]

No way in hell am I gonna stand for j.S still allowing full combos off of a random YOLO hit. No fucking way lol.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yea no more fixes on j.S, the hit box nerf and tech time is enough.

I would say add hyper cancel to Missiles on point and debate it being special cancelable.

No way in hell am I gonna stand for j.S still allowing full combos off of a random YOLO hit. No fucking way lol.

Calm down son, it's way less derp now.

 

[Karsticles]

No way in hell am I gonna stand for j.S still allowing full combos off of a random YOLO hit. No fucking way lol.

YOU PLAY ZERO. How can you ever complain about what people can get combos off of?! It's like you have never looked in a mirror sir!

Yea no more fixes on j.S, the hit box nerf and tech time is enough.

I would say add hyper cancel to Missiles on point and debate it being special cancelable.

Eh, it's already THC cancelable. That's not a big change since Doom tends to be last on teams. With everyone being gung-ho on nerfing his j.S, he'll always be last, and that will never matter.

 

[Frantic]

Yea no more fixes on j.S, the hit box nerf and tech time is enough.

Oh, the hitbox was nerfed? I didn't catch that(too busy thinking about Trish).

Yeah, you can leave j.S the way it is then.

But he does need some better point capabilities. Maybe make his j.L hit more than just the tall crouching characters?

 

[Dahbomb]

This improves his point game and with THC only someone like DiosX has to burn a lot of meter to make it safe... and he uses HM in neutral a lot. I think its a very fair change.

Its not fair to Doom that every single characted except Zero/Vergil got both their point and support game buffed while he is sitting their holding double nerfs.

I would say let him have special cancel Hidden Missiles. Its a big buff but he probably needs it now. You can improve his j.L too but I am wary of him getting instant over heads.

 

[Karsticles]

Actually, another idea:
Hidden Missiles being special cancelable might be a bit lop-sided. What if we made it dash-cancelable instead?

 

[Dahbomb]

I guess.... Hidden Missiles are now dash and hyper cancelable.

You can also improve his hyper scaling, its at 25% now although I am pretty sure that is intentional due to Sphere Flame.

I also think point Rocks could use some buff.

 

[Karsticles]

I definitely think some change to point Hidden Missiles is in order, but I'd like to hear a lot of ideas an opinions.

My concern about special-cancelable Hidden Missiles is that it could completely rock characters like Morrigan, and Doom already prefers to be in the air. So it's not like he'll be chucking them out all that often. It's better if we give him more of an approach method through the dash cancel.

 

[Frantic]

How about making Butter Gun dash cancelable on block/hit, and maybe special cancelable as well? Give him something straight to throw out where he can then dash cancel it to catch them as they fall? Maybe?

 

[Karsticles]

How about making Butter Gun dash cancelable on block/hit, and maybe special cancelable as well? Give him something straight to throw out where he can then dash cancel it to catch them as they fall? Maybe?

Butter Gun isn't special cancelable or dash cancelable?

I'm hesitant to Butter Gun nerfs, because it's already kind of a brain dead move that destroys a lot of characters and leads to good stuff. I'd rather look at the tools he doesn't use so much.

Honestly, I'd rather just not nerf the j.S hitbox.

 

[Frantic]

Butter Gun isn't special cancelable or dash cancelable?

Only j.S cancelable on block/hit.

Maybe allow him to 'hold' Molecular shield a bit on point? Y'know, so it's actually a shield in some cases. Maybe also increase the durability of the flying rocks a tad?

 

[Dahbomb]

On Rocks you can improve start up by 2 frames so it becomes 5/8/11. On frame advantage you need to improve L and M versions by 5 frame each (so it becomes M -3 and L version is -6).

J.S nerf should stay. It doesn't make him a better or worse character, it makes him a dumber character.

 

[Karsticles]

Only j.S cancelable on block/hit.

Maybe allow him to 'hold' Molecular shield a bit on point? Y'know, so it's actually a shield in some cases. Maybe also increase the durability of the flying rocks a tad?

I love the "hold" idea!

Doctor Doom:
*Hitstun reduced on s.M and s.H (fewer OTG relaunches).
*If Doom is hit during Hidden Missiles, missiles which have not yet gained their tracking property fail to do so.
*Hidden Missiles assist now fires 2 fewer missiles missiles.
*Plasma Beam no longer appears behind the point character.
*j.S untechable time decreased; still allows for full combos; posterior hitbox reduced slightly.
*Hidden Missiles is now special-cancelable.
*Molecular Shield inputs can now be held to keep the shield active for more frames before releasing the rock; 30 frames max.
*Hidden Missiles is now dash-cancelable.

Assists: Plasma Beam M, Molecular Shield H, Hidden Missiles

 

[Sigmaah]

YOU PLAY ZERO. How can you ever complain about what people can get combos off of?! It's like you have never looked in a mirror sir

Because we got rid of Zeros derpy shit by getting rid of soft knockdown on Raikousen, now he won't be able to get so called full combos from that dreaded move you all hate from a good height. If that's the case, Doom shouldn't have that ability either. (To be fair, I'm only imagining that this is what would play out) Especially if it's just ONE FUCKING BUTTON THAT ALLOWS THAT.

Y'all can have the hitbox the same, you can have it cross up idgaf as long as it does not allow you to get full combos off of one random YOLO button.

 

[Dahbomb]

You still have HM as special cancelable. It should be just dash and hyper cancelable.

Also my recommended improvements on his start up (2 frames) and recovery (5 frames on L and M) on Rocks.

And it should specify that the HM nerfs are assist version only.

Because we got rid of Zeros derpy shit by getting rid of soft knockdown on Raikousen, now he won't be able to get so called full combos from that dreaded move you all hate from a good height. If that's the case, Doom shouldn't have that ability either. Especially if it's just ONE FUCKING BUTTON THAT ALLOWS THAT.

Y'all can have the hitbox the same, you can have it cross up idgaf as long as it does not allow you to get full combos off of one random YOLO button.

You do realize many characters get big combos off of yolo buttons right?

 

[Karsticles]

Because we got rid of Zeros derpy shit by getting rid of soft knockdown on Raikousen, now he won't be able to get so called full combos from that dreaded move you all hate from a good height. If that's the case, Doom shouldn't have that ability either. (To be fair, I'm only imagining that this is what would play out) Especially if it's just ONE FUCKING BUTTON THAT ALLOWS THAT.

Y'all can have the hitbox the same, you can have it cross up idgaf as long as it does not allow you to get full combos off of one random YOLO button.

Zero is still a derpy character, and that will never change. Now he's just a reset-oriented derpy character.

Doctor Doom:
*Hitstun reduced on s.M and s.H (fewer OTG relaunches).
*If Doom is hit during Hidden Missiles, missiles which have not yet gained their tracking property fail to do so.
*Hidden Missiles assist now fires 2 fewer missiles missiles.
*Plasma Beam no longer appears behind the point character.
*j.S untechable time decreased; still allows for full combos; posterior hitbox reduced slightly.
*Molecular Shield inputs can now be held to keep the shield active for more frames before releasing the rock; 30 frames max.
*Hidden Missiles is now dash and hyper cancelable.

Assists: Plasma Beam M, Molecular Shield H, Hidden Missiles

 

[Sigmaah]

You do realize many characters get big combos off of yolo buttons right?

Yes but it's not as bad as Doom.

 

["God's Beard!"]

What, is Trish Magneto now?

It adds almost nothing to her combos except flexibility because her normals hitstun is already so low. It doesn't add much of anything to her pressure. It makes her air confirms work. It's only the one move.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";73024466]It adds almost nothing to her combos except flexibility because her normals hitstun is already so low. It doesn't add much of anything to her pressure. It makes her air confirms work. It's only the one move.[/QUOTE]
I'm joking because that's what was said to me when I said Shuma-Gorath's aerials should be dash cancelable, and I suggested it for the same reason: combo stability.

 

[Dahbomb]

Doctor Doom:
*Hitstun reduced on s.M and s.H (fewer OTG relaunches).
*If Doom is hit during Hidden Missiles as an assist character, missiles which have not yet gained their tracking property fail to do so.
*Hidden Missiles assist now fires 2 fewer missiles
*Plasma Beam no longer appears behind the point character.
*j.S untechable time decreased; still allows for full combos; posterior hitbox reduced slightly.
*Molecular Shield inputs can now be held to keep the shield active for more frames before releasing the rock; 30 frames max. Start up improved by 2 frames across all versions, L/M version now -6/-3 on block.
*Hidden Missiles is now dash and hyper cancelable.

Assists: Plasma Beam M, Molecular Shield H, Hidden Missiles

Made some minor adjustments, this is fine now.

Still feels like one additional buff would be warranted.

 

[Karsticles]

How about this?

Doctor Doom:
*Hitstun reduced on s.M and s.H (fewer OTG relaunches).
*Hidden Missiles (assist): missiles which have not yet gained their tracking property fail to do so.
*Hidden Missiles assist now fires 2 fewer missiles.
*Plasma Beam no longer appears behind the point character.
*j.S untechable time decreased; still allows for full combos; posterior hitbox reduced slightly.
*Molecular Shield inputs can now be held to keep the shield active for more frames before releasing the rock; 30 frames max; startup decreased by 2 frames across the board; all versions now +1 on block.
*Hidden Missiles is now dash and hyper cancelable.

 

[GuardianE]

Still feels like one additional buff would be warranted.

Really? His keepaway game has never been stronger. Doom on point already has sick conversions into huge damage that most of the cast wishes they had. Just because other characters are gaining those abilities doesn't neutralize the strengths that Doom already had. j.S has received only moderate nerfs. It's still strong.

 

[Dahbomb]

You can't have Rocks be +1 on all versions because L version would basically be a very good reversal as it would be safe. It should still be a usable reversal for getting rid of pressure but you need to commit to it and make a read with it.. if you mess up you should be forced to burn meter. Also +1 there is less reason to go for the heavier versions especially now that you can hold down the Rocks for more active frames.

 

[Fringot]

They're giving a Umvc3 tournament stream with the commentators being Maximillian and Dr. Doom of Online Warrior and Assist Me! Fame.

http://www.twitch.tv/capcomfighters

Are you guys talking about how to balance doom if after you were to nerf his divekick and missiles?

I sometimes wonder if his "poor" point game you mentioned is the balance to his very powerful and versatile missile assist.