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UN says discrimination embedded in Australia - GAF was right

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ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
Yeah sure, had nothing to do with Labor suckin ass and a whole host of other shit.......... was all because no one likes boat people.

This tard, smh.


Labor sucking arse/mining/Rudd alone didn't give the swing, and you're kidding yourself if rampant xenophobia wasn't a good part of the liberal result.

Labor being shit/mining tax/Rudd knifing/Boats- 4 biggest issues IMO, any one of them taken out and we'd have Gillard still. Boats are just the easiest.

And I like boat people. But then again I'm not a fuck off we're full racist idiot, so yeah. Anyone who actually agrees that they need to be sent back either is misinformed, or just afraid of browns. Do some research on the matter.
 

speedpop

Has problems recognising girls
Salazar said:
Bad title, Speedpop.
I copied it word for word from the ABC. Then I simply added the tail-end because most Australians on GAF have a kneejerk reaction when it comes to criticism of their country from others.

Reprise said:
It's not as bad as it's made out to be. Yes there are idiots, but they are present in every culture and try as hard as you can you just can't kill dumb.

Where I used to work I called it the UN, basically because there's one person from each country represented and everyone got on along alright (except with management but that's a different story). I'd say this aspect of getting along is strong throughout the community.

The intervention in the NT is a tough one, there was rampant child abuse and abuse of alcohol which forced the governments hand to try and stop it. I haven't followed too closely since it started but I hope it has helped things somewhat and can be ended soon.

The Indian student thing from what I can recall was a media beat up, many major cases which were attributed to Australians were actually caused by fellow Indians themselves, but that never got as high headlines. The fact the media kept pushing this made it worse, as the dumb idiots (who were from different backgrounds not just Anglo) saw the headlines and probably thought "hey durr lets rob/bash up this Indian guy for fun".

There is a bit of backlash against immigration at the moment, a little from the durrr side but also strong considered reasons as well. Immigration tends to cause new residents to either move to Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane (cause thats where most of the jobs are at the moment).

In Sydney our government response to infrastructure has been somewhat lacking (to put it mildly) with barely any public transport being built to the western suburbs (where a majority of Sydneysiders live). Also there have been environmental reasons as we only have one major water dam to service the entire basin. After the drought we had recently it was clear we were approaching the limits on how many people we could sustain in the Sydney basin.

Coupled with increased immigration (both skilled and refugee) many people are seeing themselves priced out of the property market and forced to rent which pretty much goes against the "great australian dream" of buying your own 1/4 acre block home. Frustration breeds resentment and so on.

Hopefully the NBN (Fibre broadband across the country) gets through the current political turmoil as it can help create new regional centres and take the strain off the major cities.
I basically agree with all of this.
 
seanoff said:
No, not even close. This is a report that points out some tensions. What a shock, country with millions of people has some problems. often with a minority of people on either side.

take muslims, some really don't help themselves by refusing to fratenise with non-muslims because of some obtuse, probably misunderstood verse in some book wirtten 1400 yrs ago. if you don't want to be part of the wider society, why should the wider society pander to your whims.

This is only a minority that do that, but it does give pause to everyone else when dealing with someone from the middle east because you have no idea of the reaction you're going to get, so up go the defences.


The problems with the blackfellas are very deep and insoluble in the short term. Blackfellas were nomadic, tribal peoples who lived in scattered family groups and lived off the land. there was little of the pointers we use to define a modern society. no towns, little or no organised agriculture, no roads, very little trade, etc. it is a completely different thing to what most of us know. many of them esp in the NT have been catapulted into this different society within the last 40 - 50 yrs and many are struggling to cope.

how to solve this is difficult.

i'll take education. many community schools have an appalling attendance record, often because the kids are taken out for cultural activities, or to go to their homelands. but something has to give and it's the education. hard to survive in a modern world, if you can't read and write or add up.

so what's it to be education or culture. you choose. it's been too hard for us. if you force education, you're accused of killing the culture. If you let the culture run, you're accused of neglecting education. no fucking win option if you are a whitefella/yellowfella in govt.

i like you.

Its really hard because it has gotten to that point, where the Aboriginal people want to keep their culture and live off the land and stuff, but at the same time they want all the things that the rest of the country has to offer (jobs, education, hospitals etc). And something's gotta give. They can't live it both ways because it's just destroying them. Its all well and good for the UN to say "hey there's a problem here" but we've known that for years. But no one knows what the solution is, because you're damned if you help and damned if you don't.

I know this is probably going to make me very unpopular but a few weeks ago my lecturer opened the lecture with welcome to country. basically he thanked the traditional owners of this land, the aboriginal people who used to live where my University now sits. And I rolled my eyes. I felt kinda bad about it, but i can't help it. To me it just seems like lip service.
What's the point of acknowledging them if you aren't going to do something? And really welcome to country brings all sorts of guilt along with it. (sort of like "They are the TRUE owners of this land, until all you people came and STOLE it!") I think it creates an even bigger divide, when i think what we're trying to do is bring everyone together. Instead of this whole "they are the real owners, and you stole their land" thing, i think it would be more productive to look forward. We're all here now, we're all Australian. Not ignoring the past, but maybe forgiving each other.

We are a country of immigrants. Racial clashes, as unfortunate as they are, are bound to happen sometimes. If not from European settlers, from another group of immigrants.
 

nib95

Banned
I am not at all surprised by this lol. Australia is a bit backwards in this regard compared to much of the Western World.
 

Salazar

Member
nib95 said:
I am not at all surprised by this lol. Australia is a bit backwards in this regard compared to much of the Western World.

Jeepers, do you think different countries in the Western world face different situations ?
 

ItAintEasyBeinCheesy

it's 4th of July in my asshole
harSon said:
I don't know much about him but he seems like a complete dick, or at least that's the impression I got with a quick Google search. He seems pretty comparable to many of the crazy right wing politicians in the United States, which is not exactly a compliment, depending on which way you lean of course.

Nope.


teacupcopter said:
And I like boat people. But then again I'm not a fuck off we're full racist idiot, so yeah. Anyone who actually agrees that they need to be sent back either is misinformed, or just afraid of browns. Do some research on the matter.

:lol :lol

Do some research on why people are afraid of brown people?

:lol :lol
 

Shanadeus

Banned
Ripclawe said:
The Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu: “Multiculturalism has seemed to imply, wrongly for me, let other cultures be allowed to express themselves but do not let the majority culture at all tell us its glories, its struggles, its joys, its pains,” he said.




If by "harmonious" just gloss over differences and have to change just so others can feel welcome, no thanks. Multicult is a warped idea that you can live and let live and just keep quiet about certain aspects that go against the majority norms and culture.

Now Assimilation is a much better fit for society because newcomers have to fit it and you get a different kind of another culture. Multiculturalism as it is practiced today just promotes a wretched form of tribalism.
Holy shit you're serious. :lol

"Newcomers have to fit in"?

I need to get off this planet.
 

Coeliacus

Member
shanshan310 said:
Its really hard because it has gotten to that point, where the Aboriginal people want to keep their culture and live off the land and stuff, but at the same time they want all the things that the rest of the country has to offer (jobs, education, hospitals etc). And something's gotta give. They can't live it both ways because it's just destroying them. Its all well and good for the UN to say "hey there's a problem here" but we've known that for years. But no one knows what the solution is, because you're damned if you help and damned if you don't.
The important distinction is that some want to live traditionally and some want the benefits of modern society, and aboriginal leaders need to represent both wishes. It annoys me when people dismiss them as the 'want their cake and eat it' mentality.

shanshan310 said:
I know this is probably going to make me very unpopular but a few weeks ago my lecturer opened the lecture with welcome to country. basically he thanked the traditional owners of this land, the aboriginal people who used to live where the University of Queensland now sits. And I rolled my eyes. I felt kinda bad about it, but i can't help it. To me it just seems like lip service.
What's the point of acknowledging them if you aren't going to do something? And really welcome to country brings all sorts of guilt along with it. (sort of like "They are the TRUE owners of this land, until all you people came and STOLE it!") I think it creates an even bigger divide, when i think what we're trying to do is bring everyone together. Instead of this whole "they are the real owners, and you stole their land" thing, i think it would be more productive to look forward. We're all here now, we're all Australian. Not ignoring the past, but maybe forgiving each other.
It's not just lip service. It's showing respect, and it's also raising awareness, which is pretty much all that can be done at this point. I get the 'Obama' approach to race and moving forward, I really do, but I think it's up to the aboriginal community to decide if they want that as it makes the assumption that they just want to leave the past behind. The best we can do is hope that they want to.

Aboriginal communities interact with a very small portion of Australia's total population. Most of our generation in particular has been raised on a steady diet of American 'we are the world' multiculturalism, but most have never seen nor met aboriginals let alone see them on a daily basis, so typically the general population's stance is anywhere between sympathetic and apathetic. The real racism springs from typical fear in the low income areas where aboriginal communities exist. A friend of mine spent some time up in the NT and she said that most of the violence involving aboriginals was amongst themselves, and the tension it creates continues the cycle. It's shit.

As far as other racist concerns come, the muslim issue seems to be the same as in Europe, where newspapers are bringing up stupid concerns about the burka as a security issue in banks, while the occasional islamic religious/community leader makes idiotic comments about how scantily clad women are asking to be raped. What I understand far less is the bashings of Indian students that have become more frequent in the last few years.

Oh, and for whoever mentioned the 'blackface' thing that happened a while back... My grandfather used to have a dog he named as the 'n' word. His reasoning... it's a black dog. Growing up it didn't even occur to me that it was a slur. We didn't have civil rights movements here and farming communities where I grew up simply didn't have any race variation at all. I'm pretty sure that whole incident was born out of complete insensitivity. Never mind that it happened on a reunion show that began like 40 years ago. :lol

Shanadeus said:
Holy shit you're serious. :lol

"Newcomers have to fit in"?

I need to get off this planet.
Amusingly, the only person I've met that strongly believes this is my sisters French boyfriend. :lol
 
speedpop said:
I copied it word for word from the ABC. Then I simply added the tail-end because most Australians on GAF have a kneejerk reaction when it comes to criticism of their country from others.
I'm probably counted amongst those kneejerkers. My main issue is that every thread about this problem seems to be filled with sanctimonious tut-tuting from people who act as though the issue is unique to Australia.
 
Shanadeus said:
Holy shit you're serious. :lol

"Newcomers have to fit in"?

I need to get off this planet.

well, i think to a point they should. I mean, if they don't its not bother to me. But they're the ones missing out. Imagine coming to a country and refusing to speak the language or interact with the society they have chosen to live in and follow its norms. How isolating. I think it's important to keep their culture, but refusing to fit in creates problems for you. If you moved to a different country wouldn't you want to do the same?
 
Zanken said:
What I understand far less is the bashings of Indian students that have become more frequent in the last few years.



Amusingly, the only person I've met that strongly believes this is my sisters French boyfriend. :lol

The Indian bashings were mostly committed by Indians on other Indians. In one case an Indian set his car on fire to try and get an insurance payout he burnt himself then told the media that a bunch of Aussie rednecks beat him and tried to set him on fire.
 
Meus Renaissance said:
Someone please enlighten me why there is opposition to multiculturalism in some parts of society. I'm a strong advocate of the idea that the only effective way to rid us of all forms of discrimination and prejudice, whether it be based on race, gender, culture or faith, is to encourage that diversity to become neighbours. One of the most consistent concerns raised about multiculturalism is the fear that it means failure to integrate yourself to the host culture or even that host culture being forgotten in the stampede of new ones. I understand that our heritage and tradition is part of our identity, but in the fear that we may lose sight of our history, we risk losing a harmonious future. People need to and can respect each other but it has to begin in acknowledging that whatever differences there are, they are minor to the bigger issue. Right now people are just focused on those differences rather than what they share in common. In my childhood, we had a group of friends from all backgrounds, multiple faiths, completely different sounding names with different types of home cooked foods; and yet we saw each other no differently than what we saw in the mirror.

I'm not sure if this particular story in Australia relates to specifically what I'm saying but it does echo of the similarities brought up here in debates about UK society. I've never understood this "way of life" counter-argument and I've never been fond of the characters that propagate it.

Bah, I'm off to eat my curry
The ever-powerful force of imperialism and colonialism has made multiculturalism almost unattainable for most of the world.
 

Shanadeus

Banned
shanshan310 said:
well, i think to a point they should. I mean, if they don't its not bother to me. But they're the ones missing out. Imagine coming to a country and refusing to speak the language or interact with the society they have chosen to live in and follow its norms. How isolating. I think it's important to keep their culture, but refusing to fit in creates problems for you. If you moved to a different country wouldn't you want to do the same?
I suppose it depends on what "fitting in" means.
Learning a new language or the laws of the new country isn't assimilation, that's just something that should be part of the requirements of entering the country. I generally find the idea of actual assimilation ridiculous - teaching immigrants cultural norms and behaviors which "native" aren't required to follow?

If I as a native Swede can completely ignore important cultural norms, Swedish foods and national traditions as well as celebrations then why shouldn't a newly immigrated Swede be able to do the same?

I look at things on an individual basis so many of these thoughts of enforcing mono-cultures and making sure the "main culture" stays intact are just insulting.
 

harSon

Banned
Seems like a dick to me:

- He's not against Abortion (or at least he claims not to be) but considers aborting a fetus and someone killing a pregnant woman's unborn child as comparable.

- He's against Embryonic Stem Cell Research

- He's against Gay Marriage and thinks Marriage should remain between a man and a woman

- He wants to give couples the option to opt into 'at-fault divorce', ie. you have to supply proof that something in your marriage is significant enough to prevent a healthy marriage.

- He's basically a Global Warming/Climate Change denier

- http://guttertrash.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/jesus-wouldve-shunned-boat-people-says-tony-abbott/

- His ridiculous views on 'Boat People' despite the fact that Australia takes in a negligible amount of Asylum seekers, well below much of the rest of the world, and it doesn't appear to be a big enough issue to make the predominant staple of one's campaign.
 

Salazar

Member
HarSon, you're right.

There are bigger dickheads than Abbott around (see Bob Katter), but he is an astounding cretin to be leader of a major party - lamentably, a potential PM.
 

artist

Banned
CurlySaysX said:
The Indian bashings were mostly committed by Indians on other Indians. In one case an Indian set his car on fire to try and get an insurance payout he burnt himself then told the media that a bunch of Aussie rednecks beat him and tried to set him on fire.
Quite a stretch there mate.
 

artist

Banned
Salazar said:
Less of a stretch than it is to inflate this into a nationally incriminating situation, you witless git.
india_kkk_cartoon_100108.jpg


There you go.
 

artist

Banned
Salazar said:
I am reluctant to spend energy on pseudo-dialogue with muppets, but what ?
You're one jumping to conclusions and wetting the panties, chill out. There was no need for any personal attack, how Australian of you.
 

Lunchbox

Banned
i remember around 07 reading on bbc some australians were making monkey chants at some cricket players from other countries and throwing stuff at them from the crowd

they somehow managed to get violence into fucking cricket :|
 

artist

Banned
Salazar said:
Can threads like this be locked when they devolve into categorically moronic trolling ?
I guess they will start banning the ones who resort to personal attacks. :D

Lunchbox said:
i remember around 07 reading on bbc some australians were making monkey chants at some cricket players from other countries and throwing stuff at them from the crowd

they somehow managed to get violence into fucking cricket :|
Dude when Muralitharan was bowling, a majority of the crowd booed him, in fact they still did even on his last tour. The same shit was given back to them by some equal bigots in India and we got some crybaby tears out of it. :lol Anyway, lets not get into cricket here, back on topic & hope the "couple" aggressive ones can be civil.
 

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
irfan said:
india_kkk_cartoon_100108.jpg


There you go.

actually they caught the people who did it. They cannot release many details of the crime as the perpetrators were under the age of 18 but the police have stated it was not racist in nature.


and muralitharan is a chucker and thats why people boo him :lol
-----

Also the UN finding Australia being racist against Aboriginals in the Northern Territory is unsurprising (the Northern Territory is the only place the Federal government may do this constitutionally). Aboriginals to Australia are what the Roma are to Europe. Some of the laws brought in to solve issues in the outback communities (molestation, massive unemployment, violence, paedophilia, children not attending school) has resulted in a massive curtailment of civil liberties directed to the people in set areas (which means they basically target only Aboriginals). Australia had to suspend certain parts of human rights and non-discrimination laws to bring in the intervention laws.
 

artist

Banned
i_am_ben said:
actually they caught the people who did it. They cannot release many details of the crime as the perpetrators were under the age of 18 but the police have stated it was not racist in nature.
I know, I did follow that story. I was merely posted that since Salazar accused me of doing that before actually did it, had no intentions either.
 
shanshan310 said:
well, i think to a point they should. I mean, if they don't its not bother to me. But they're the ones missing out. Imagine coming to a country and refusing to speak the language or interact with the society they have chosen to live in and follow its norms. How isolating. I think it's important to keep their culture, but refusing to fit in creates problems for you. If you moved to a different country wouldn't you want to do the same?

If you're a productive member of a society and abide by its laws and governing tenets but refuse to conform to its "norms", are you more or less of a citizen?

I say this not because I believe people should be living in this country unable to speak English - which is now something of a planetary trade language - or without an education - in fact, I vehemently think those things should be universal - but because the general outlook has been so skewed to the opposite extreme in the past, and terrifyingly, the recent past. From the super-extreme of the White Australia policy to the recent diminished guise of questions pertaining to the batting average of a cricket player being in the citizenship test - an honestly sad "test" of supposedly requisite "Australianess".

Shanadeus said:
I suppose it depends on what "fitting in" means.
Learning a new language or the laws of the new country isn't assimilation, that's just something that should be part of the requirements of entering the country. I generally find the idea of actual assimilation ridiculous - teaching immigrants cultural norms and behaviors which "native" aren't required to follow?

If I as a native Swede can completely ignore important cultural norms, Swedish foods and national traditions as well as celebrations then why shouldn't a newly immigrated Swede be able to do the same?

I look at things on an individual basis so many of these thoughts of enforcing mono-cultures and making sure the "main culture" stays intact are just insulting.

Agreed. A society is stronger for acknowledging that it has always entailed diversity on a cultural level and that it is understandable that its newcomers will do so, as well. Although, I think it's important that all cultural affectations should be respected, inclusive of the "majority culture". The uniqueness and cohesiveness of which is usually overblown. It's nowhere near the mythologically present belief that Confucianism is somehow the ancient norm of Asian people, an extremely diverse grouping of thousands of peoples and languages and religions - nowhere near that - but it is something which is often overstated to an odd degree.
 

$200

Banned
I really dislike some of those Aboriginese communities and their constant whining about pretty much everything.
 

Dead Man

Member
Salazar said:
And for an Anglophone island in Asia, Australia has managed alright. Splendidly, in some respects.

What Patrick Thornberry actually says is that discrimination is embedded in the treatment of Aborigines in the NT. Not that it is 'embedded in the Australian way of life'. That would be bullshit.

Bad title, Speedpop.
Indeed. And on that note, I shall leave the thread before I become irate at the hypocrisy and ignorance shown.
 

GaryD

Member
The problem with Australians are we are so worried about looking like racists we usually end up being exactly that.

The issues that face aboriginal communities is something that is pretty much unstoppable at this point I fear. There are unfortunately cycles of domestic violence, sexual abuse, alcohol and other drug addiction that all efforts so far don't seem to have dented.

I come from a town with a large population of aboriginies (still not large compared to the white population though) and growing up with aboriginal friends, it gives you a bleak outlook into their community.

The real sad thing is they have such a rich historical culture and history. They also have a natural gift of great talent in many fields.
 
Dead Man said:
Indeed. And on that note, I shall leave the thread before I become irate at the hypocrisy and ignorance shown.

Precisely how I feel. Why speedpop whhhhhhhhhhhy.

$200 said:
Well we Asians get discriminated just as much. We don't go around all day complaining and asking for benefits from the government.

Your ignorance is astounding.
 

Fusebox

Banned
Aside from our historically shit treatment of our Aboriginals (and in that regard, Americans probably have a more shameful history than even us) the modern aspect of this story is just a typical racist vocal minority of arseholes that aren't any more indicative of Australians than terrorists are of Islam.
 

ItAintEasyBeinCheesy

it's 4th of July in my asshole
Lunchbox said:
i remember around 07 reading on bbc some australians were making monkey chants at some cricket players from other countries and throwing stuff at them from the crowd

they somehow managed to get violence into fucking cricket :|

That was India doing that to an Aboriginal player. Dont recall anyone in Australia doing it, if it was it would have been a couple of dickheads that got thrown out of the grounds, with India it was the whole crowd doing it.
 

Yamauchi

Banned
If people in the United States really felt bad about what their ancestors did to the Native Americans, they'd give them their damned land back. Same goes for Australia and their aborigines.

Point is, the victorious majority doesn't really care that much, so what's the point in even talking about it? You can either soothe your conscience by listening to some pretentious professor belittle you (a professor, by the way, who's probably done nothing for a Native American/aborigine in his life), or you can read some Nietzsche.
 
$200 said:
Well we Asians get discriminated just as much. We don't go around all day complaining and asking for benefits from the government.

smh

Long gone are the days when I have to apologise for being a white aussie, saying sorry for my bogan brethren, gotta figure it out for others too?

Reminds me of the people in springvale being polled on boat people and a bunch of vietnamese going "fuck em, send them back home"
 

Carton

Member
Zaro said:
The article is misleading because Australia is a shithole outside of the east coast.

Having lived on both coasts, I completely disagree. They both have their pros and cons, and there is a lot of overlap too.
 

HolyCheck

I want a tag give me a tag
Foxy Fox 39 said:
I didn't think so until I came here on gaf. After the KFC commercial and the black face thing...

It can't be though...cause Hugh Jackman and Nicole Kidman are so awesome.

Back up punk. That was not racist.

Lunchbox said:
i remember around 07 reading on bbc some australians were making monkey chants at some cricket players from other countries and throwing stuff at them from the crowd

they somehow managed to get violence into fucking cricket :|

wait, you mean
THE ugly spectre of racism has returned to cricket, with sections of the Vadodara crowd subjecting Australian all-rounder Andrew Symonds to monkey chants during yesterday's one-day international at the IPCL Sports Complex.
An Australian gets called a monkey, we're racist!

Also guys, it's Indigenous Australians or Aboriginal People, :) I think those are right, either way aboriginies = no no, lack of capital letters = no no
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
Syth_Blade22 said:
Also guys, it's Indigenous Australians or Aboriginal People, :) I think those are right, either way aboriginies = no no, lack of capital letters = no no
Correct. And Non-Indigenous Australians for the... well... Non-Indigenous Australians.
 
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