Support NeoGAF

[dralla]

Have you seen another single player game on the "HD twins" that has a compelling, well paced, well acted, well written single player like Uncharted, besides Bioshock?

Also, do you honestly expect Uncharted 2 to be shorter and less varied than the first game? Do you think that Uncharted 2's voice acting and writing will be effected by multiplayer?

Resistance 2, maybe you've heard of it?

 

[RoboPlato]

The more I think about this the more I'm warming up to the idea. I'll have to see what they show tomorrow and get a taste of the beta before I'm fully convinced but I have faith in ND.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Resistance 2, maybe you've heard of it?

Different games, different developer. And let's not pretend that Resistance was a tremendously remarkable single player game in the first place.

I'll be a bit disappointed if it's just regular DM/TDM/CTF, as Uncharted has everything in place for a fun and unique MP experience.

 

[Guled]

Resistance 2, maybe you've heard of it?

ND had more then a year to make this game, and even then its not trying to do as much as R2

 

[-viper-]

Well acted? Well written?

But yeah, Gears of War has a good single player experience which was the point he was trying to make

Also, Epic took 2 years to develop Gears 2, and their studio size is roughly the same as Naughty Dog.




Hmm...well most of those games had a tacked on multiplayer.

Gears of War's multiplayer is a bit better than those games, but still pretty flawed. I'm holding onto the hope that ND can manage to deliver a compelling multiplayer game. I know the single player will be good. Multiplayer is still up in the air at this point. I'm certainly glad they're giving it a try, though.

Killzone 2 has an awesome single player AND multiplayer.

 

[Shurs]

Resistance 2, maybe you've heard of it?

Please, that's such a stupid argument. The first Resistance had multiplayer as well, it also had a silent protagonist. Apples and oranges argument on your end.

 

[DestinRL]

well written?

anyway a proper example is gta4, MGS4, Lost Planet, Darkness, and Orange Box. A MP game can still have a great SP

Wait...the Darkness has great multiplayer?

 

[JoJo13]

Resistance 2, maybe you've heard of it?

Resistance 1 didn't have multiplayer?

The only real addition to R2 was a co-op mode.

But I'm of the opinion that R2's single player didn't really suffer due to the multiplayer. R2's development seemed to be rather flawed from the get-go with the direction they were taking it.

 

[Shurs]

well written?

anyway a proper example is gta4, MGS4, Lost Planet, Darkness, and Orange Box. A MP game can still have a great SP

Wait...the Darkness has great multiplayer?

Read the quote again.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Well acted? Well written?

At least as good as Uncharted. Maybe part of the problem here is that Uncharted has been given a largely mythical reputation of uniquely remarkable excellence, although that certainly wouldn't explain why people are suddenly so skeptical of Naughty Dog's abilities as to compare the company to studios like Free Radical.

 

[-viper-]

Resistance 1 didn't have multiplayer?

The only real addition to R2 was a co-op mode.

But I'm of the opinion that R2's single player didn't really suffer due to the multiplayer. R2's development seemed to be rather flawed from the get-go with the direction they were taking it.

Doesn't help the fact that Insomniac do YEARLY releases. Naughty Dog on the other hand are taking two years, not one year.

 

[Shurs]

At least as good as Uncharted. Maybe part of the problem here is that Uncharted has been given a largely mythical reputation of uniquely remarkable excellence, although that certainly wouldn't explain why people are suddenly so skeptical of Naughty Dog's abilities as to compare the company to studios like Free Radical.

Ignore the straw man. As if adding multiplayer is somehow going to mess with voice acting, plotting and dialogue.

 

[AnnSwag]

I’m not sure how I feel about Uncharted 2 having multiplayer. Don’t know if the game really needs it.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

What I don't get is why people are assuming that the enhanced multiplayer is what caused the shortcomings of the single player in Resistance 2. The most critical of the issues it had, such as the lack of weapon wheel and the near total submission to Popular FPS Design, seemed like design decisions, not the results of shared resources.

 

[JoJo13]

At least as good as Uncharted. Maybe part of the problem here is that Uncharted has been given a largely mythical reputation of uniquely remarkable excellence, although that certainly wouldn't explain why people are suddenly so skeptical of Naughty Dog's abilities as to compare the company to studios like Free Radical.

It's nowhere near as well written/acted as Uncharted. It's one key area that puts Uncharted above the Gears series in my view.

Uncharted is actually one of the few games that gets the storytelling right, while games like Gears, KZ2, R2, and Halo 3 feel much more forgettable on the storyline front. Uncharted feels more genuine and authentic than any of these games, chiefly due to the acting of the characters and the spectacular facial animation, but also with the way that each character really has great personality and ND did its best to bring this human element out of their characters. It looks and feels less like a videogame and more like a hollywood production.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I'd argue that the banter between all the members of Delta Squad is easily on par with the best of Uncharted, both in terms of writing and delivery. Subsequently, both games succeed brilliantly in providing snapshots of Hollywood stereotypes, and basic if largely uninspired Hollywood productions. I'd also argue that the story in Gears is at least as engaging as the story of Uncharted, albeit of a different nature.

Now, no game showcases how good Gears is at what it does quite like Killzone 2.

 

[JoJo13]

The delta squad banter, while amusing, did little to help present the overarching storyline which is completely forgettable and not very cohesive or convincing in the slightest. You also don't really find much bond amongst the delta squad, despite the cheesy one liners. Gears 2's problem is that they then threw in MORE characters to the mix which ultimately served very little purpose in furthering the story. Gears' story is the weakest aspect of the series. I was hoping that it would be improved (like they said) for the sequel, but ultimately the story presentation was just as awful.

There's also the issue of production values, and Uncharted's cutscenes are much better produced than Gears of War. The facial animation alone looks far more believable than the rather 'uncanny valley' cutscenes in Gears.

It's not even close, imo.

 

[.GqueB.]

Gears of War, for one.

There were too many gifs to choose from so...

But seriously, this is the classic "we wont know until we know" type arguement so its barely worth having. Im just pointing out why people would be (or are) responding to this so negatively. My only rebuttal against said negativity is this:

...its naughtydog...

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

There's also the issue of production values, and Uncharted's cutscenes are much better produced than Gears of War. The facial animation alone looks far more believable than the rather 'uncanny valley' cutscenes in Gears.

If that's not Uncanny Valley then I don't know what is. Technically, that's not a slam against the game as it suggests that it's close enough to the real thing to appear particularly unsettling, but if we are going to claim that Uncharted somehow does not fall into said valley, then I think we're back to talking about this largely mythical reputation of excellence.

As for the story and the quality of the writing, it's pulp adventure with a decent cast. Which it is supposed to be, but it's hardly the remarkable Hollywood production it is sometimes described as. Gears is every bit as accomplished of a sci-fi blockbuster as Uncharted is of an adventure flick.

 

[DestinRL]

Read the quote again.

Yeah but Darnkess sucked.... I mean most of the other games were good. Gears didn't have a very good story either.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Yeah but Darnkess sucked.... I mean most of the other games were good. Gears didn't have a very good story either.

And Uncharted did? Charming scoundrel and his shady pal search for legendary treasure, and drop witty remarks along the way. There is also a feisty dame. Also, a powerful enemy, a lower level treasure hungry dude and pirates.

But Then!

(dun dun dun)

A Mystery!

 

[-PXG-]

If you're playing Gears for the story, you're missing the point of the game. It's not supposed to be that deep, just big dudes on anabolic steroids, killing ground dwelling reptile men, with chainsaw guns. It's not meant to be Shakespeare.

 

[Pojo]

Resistance 2, maybe you've heard of it?

Would you people shut about about R2? It was an excellent game with loads of polish. I would have changed a few things and much prefer split screen co-op (which, ironically, takes LESS effort to do than the mode they implemented), but they created a fun SP campaign that was far more varied than the first and had a decent multiplayer component.

The only reason I was bummedis because they took out split screen elements in favor of online stuff. I don't think it impacted the SP one bit. People never raved over R1s SP, which I also liked.

Uncharted multiplayer is going to be awesome. The only thing I don't like about the idea is splitting up trophies over online modes, so don't make it too hard ND!

 

[DemonSwordsman]

If that's not Uncanny Valley then I don't know what is. Technically, that's not a slam against the game as it suggests that it's close enough to the real thing to appear particularly unsettling, but if we are going to claim that Uncharted somehow does not fall into said valley, then I think we're back to talking about this largely mythical reputation of excellence.

As for the story and the quality of the writing, it's pulp adventure with a decent cast. Which it is supposed to be, but it's hardly the remarkable Hollywood production it is sometimes described as. Gears is every bit as accomplished of a sci-fi blockbuster as Uncharted is of an adventure flick.

I like how people throw around uncanny valley when they dont have a proper criticism.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I like how people throw around uncanny valley when they dont have a proper criticism.

It might be because the term itself serves that purpose.

 

[Pojo]

I like how people throw around uncanny valley when they dont have a proper criticism.

The only thing uncanny about Uncharted is how amazing it looks. Compare these cutscenes with the choppy, badly animated scenes in Gears of War. You'll appreciate it more.

Naughty Dog has always been at the top of the game when it comes to cutscenes using the in-game assets. See: Crash 2, Jak and Daxter 2, Uncharted.

 

[mr_nothin]

If that's not Uncanny Valley then I don't know what is. Technically, that's not a slam against the game as it suggests that it's close enough to the real thing to appear particularly unsettling, but if we are going to claim that Uncharted somehow does not fall into said valley, then I think we're back to talking about this largely mythical reputation of excellence.

As for the story and the quality of the writing, it's pulp adventure with a decent cast. Which it is supposed to be, but it's hardly the remarkable Hollywood production it is sometimes described as. Gears is every bit as accomplished of a sci-fi blockbuster as Uncharted is of an adventure flick.

I hate that cutscene...it's like the ugliest cutscene in the game. ewww

 

[JoJo13]

If that's not Uncanny Valley then I don't know what is. Technically, that's not a slam against the game as it suggests that it's close enough to the real thing to appear particularly unsettling, but if we are going to claim that Uncharted somehow does not fall into said valley, then I think we're back to talking about this largely mythical reputation of excellence.

As for the story and the quality of the writing, it's pulp adventure with a decent cast. Which it is supposed to be, but it's hardly the remarkable Hollywood production it is sometimes described as. Gears is every bit as accomplished of a sci-fi blockbuster as Uncharted is of an adventure flick.

I never claimed Uncharted was perfect and without its moments of unbelievability with regards to subtle human nuances, but ultimately its far better than most games I've played. Even in the video you posted (which is probably the worst cutscene in the game as Elena looks awkward), you can see that they spent a lot of attention getting subtle facial animations correct. It doesn't work all the time, but it's a lot more refined than what is offered in most games, including Gears.

It's a heck of a lot better than this, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOZBdTwr3kU

The storyline in Uncharted is kept simple, and it shines with the characters and personality, something that feels a bit more human and believable than something like Gears where all the characters seem to represent some sort of stereotype. It also manages to have better storyline direction than Gears, which is often all over the place. The enemies and their motives are recognizable, and it flows well. I can't say the same for Gears.

I'd also say the writing quality is a lot better in Uncharted (along with the voice acting) because, again, it feels believable. As a pulp adventure, I enjoyed Uncharted more than I did the latest indiana jones flick. Gears still has a long ways to go before it can even come close to some of those B-quality 80s flicks, in my view. I could also do without the cheesy love segments that were completely unnecessary.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

And the result was a well produced, anonymous adventure with an anonymous main character, expected NPCs and and unassuming, predictable plot fit for a TV adventure. Nothing wrong with that, but there is something to be said about the fact that such an adventurer manages to be a more vanilla and less interesting of a character than one that is designed to be a grunt.

By the way, about the Uncanny Valley, it's my opinion that Gears never really approaches it due to it being firmly video game cutscene material. Well directed, well acted and with a good story to present, but the production, animation and such is definitely video game of the action comic sort. Naughty Dog attempted to cross the bridge, and by nearly succeeding they really thrust themselves into the Uncanny Valley with full force.

 

[Guled]

Yeah but Darnkess sucked.... I mean most of the other games were good. Gears didn't have a very good story either.

have you played Darkness, the SP was really great

 

[EktorPR]

What the fuck is happening here? Now we have comparisons to Starbreeze (which I respect, but c'mon...they aren't fucking Naughty Dog) and weak jabs at Uncharted's production values and story? Give me a fucking break, GAF.

 

[Akia]

Why would it affect the 'scope, scale, and overall density'? Let's face it, the Uncharted formula is not rocket science -- they've established the core mechanics and basic gameplay features. All that they're really doing for the sequel is refining those mechanics and then developing a series of set pieces and kill boxes while fleshing out story segments in between. The bulk of the production, at this point, would have to be art-related (developing new levels, set pieces, etc), but it should have no affect on the density or scale of those individual levels.

Maybe I have higher expectations for what they could accomplish with a sequel. There are more gameplay mechanics they could introduce into the "kill boxes" instead of just relying solely on what they made for Uncharted 1. They've already announced that there are more things to climb but what if there were more things to explore past the main story. Different NPC characters past the one's that want to kill you. That give you side objectives that introduce you to more areas in the world. In general, I want to see something more than just a linear 3rd person shooter.

Secondly, a multiplayer mode will likely rip out art assets already created for the single player and tweaked slightly. It will take some development resources to implement, for sure, but more on the networking side of things and not the art side of things.

My point is that the developers creating the single player are probably going to be less focused on creating single player assets that don't translate into something they can copy&paste into multiplayer.

And perhaps in the process of playtesting the multiplayer, this will make the single player experience better. Perhaps they find some aspect of the multiplayer is incredibly fun and engaging, and they want to add a similar experience in the single player.

Yeah, but I hope that the gameplay mechanics possible in the single player and multiplayer are different. As in there should be things that Nathan does that can't be recreated by "Random Multiplayer Model #9".

But those mechanics that cross over will be made better due to the playtesting. You have a point there.

I don't think Naughty Dog can really screw up the single player aspect of the game unless the cutscenes and story are not up to par with the original (unlikely). I loved the original because of the gunplay and the story -- how genuine the characters were. The great atmosphere that the art and music aided in creating this wonderful adventure tale. I don't think they can really screw that up with the sequel by adding a multiplayer component.

They can screw it up if they play the single player too safe. Uncharted 1 was great game as the first release of a brand new franchise. For the amount of time they had for the sequel and since they've already created a technology foundation for the game -- I'm expecting much more than Uncharted 1 mechanics + new location + new cut scenes. I think you've set your expectations too low. I worry that they're going to use all the new modes that they're creating for Uncharted 2 as an excuse if the single player doesn't defy fan expectations.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

And the result was a well produced, anonymous adventure with an anonymous main character, expected NPCs and and unassuming, predictable plot fit for a TV adventure. Nothing wrong with that, but there is something to be said about the fact that such an adventurer manages to be a more vanilla and less interesting of a character than one that is designed to be a grunt.

By the way, about the Uncanny Valley, it's my opinion that Gears never really approaches it due to it being firmly video game cutscene material. Well directed, well acted and with a good story to present, but the production, animation and such is definitely video game of the action comic sort. Naughty Dog attempted to cross the bridge, and by nearly succeeding they really thrust themselves into the Uncanny Valley with full force.

I don't know. I'm still wowed by the character models. You may be the first I've heard of speaking somewhat negative about them and dropping the "uncanny valley" jab. I mean... the characters show real emotion. they don't have that wide-eyed, stiff skinned robotic look that I normally associate with uncanny valley. Instead, I see wrinkles, human expression and other such details that bring it to life.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

What the fuck is happening here? Now we have comparisons to Starbreeze (which I respect, but c'mon...they aren't fucking Naughty Dog) and weak jabs at Uncharted's production values and story? Give me a fucking break, GAF.

You may see them as jabs, but they are really not. I liked Uncharted, enjoyed its little story and its familiar but enjoyable characters, but the popular (on GAF) opinion that it's some kind of one-of-a-kind cinematic wonder with a uniquely engrossing story is too far off my own experience with the game.

I don't know. I'm still wowed by the character models. You may be the first I've heard of speaking somewhat negative about them and dropping the "uncanny valley" jab. I mean... the characters show real emotion. they don't have that wide-eyed, stiff skinned robotic look that I normally associate with uncanny valley. Instead, I see wrinkles, human expression and other such details that bring it to life.

I didn't bring the Uncanny Valley factor into this discussion, dude. But it's certainly a better fit for Uncharted than it is for the game that the comment was originally made towards. And it's precisely because of those human, not quite lifelike expressions.

 

[Guled]

What the fuck is happening here? Now we have comparisons to Starbreeze (which I respect, but c'mon...they aren't fucking Naughty Dog) and weak jabs at Uncharted's production values and story? Give me a fucking break, GAF.

I'm saying if Darkness could have a good SP while also having MP, then there is no reason that Uncharted 2 can't

 

[JoJo13]

They can screw it up if they play the single player too safe. Uncharted 1 was great game as the first release of a brand new franchise. For the amount of time they had for the sequel and since they've already created a technology foundation for the game -- I'm expecting much more than Uncharted 1 mechanics + new location + new cut scenes. I think you've set your expectations too low. I worry that they're going to use all the new modes that they're creating for Uncharted 2 as an excuse if the single player doesn't defy fan expectations.

I think you've set your expectations too high, and by doing so Uncharted 2 will never live up to those expectations and you will ultimately blame it on the multiplayer when the final game comes out.

Uncharted 2 was never going to reinvent the wheel. If you are expecting anything more than Uncharted 1 mechanics + new locations + new cutscenes + better puzzles/platforming/stealth, then you're expecting something that Uncharted isn't.

You may see them as jabs, but they are really not. I liked Uncharted, enjoyed its little story and its familiar but enjoyable characters, but the popular (on GAF) opinion that it's some kind of one-of-a-kind cinematic wonder with a uniquely engrossing story is too far off my own experience with the game.



I didn't bring the Uncanny Valley factor into this discussion, dude. But it's certainly a better fit for Uncharted than it is for the game that the comment was originally made towards. And it's precisely because of those human, not quite lifelike expressions.

It's not, but you excuse Gears of War's cutscenes for being...err...."videogamey?", therefore uncanny valley does not apply? Did you watch the cutscene I just showed you?

The character models and animation looked particularly bad, and far more off putting than the cinematic quality of even the worst Uncharted cutscene.

The only game this gen that can compete with Uncharted's cinematic production is MGS4.

 

[TTP]

From the SCEA Blog comments section

acmilanboy | April 26th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

Cant wait for some new uncharted info, some gameplay footage would be nice.

Jeff Rubenstein replied on April 26, 2009 at 5:40 pm

Then you’ll want to drop by the blog at about 9am tomorrow (Pacific).

Jeff also confirms MAG news this week.

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

You may see them as jabs, but they are really not. I liked Uncharted, enjoyed its little story and its familiar but enjoyable characters, but the popular (on GAF) opinion that it's some kind of one-of-a-kind cinematic wonder with a uniquely engrossing story is too far off my own experience with the game.



I didn't bring the Uncanny Valley factor into this discussion, dude. But it's certainly a better fit for Uncharted than it is for the game that the comment was originally made towards. And it's precisely because of those human, not quite lifelike expressions.

...different folks. I guess having just started a replay last night I'm just stunned by the performances of the actual models. It pulls me in. I also don't see Uncharted as trying to look realistic. It has a cartoony, yet still life-likeness (which I guess is where your "not so life-like" comment comes from). I think having that high stylzed look and bright colors should prevent such labels as uncanny valley since, like I said, it really isn't trying to be realistic.

 

[Loudninja]

From the SCEA Blog comments section





Jeff also confirms MAG news this week.

Going to be a great week :0

 

[overthehill99]

Oh trust me Jeff, I will be dropping.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Looks like the MAG and inFamous info will be coming in on Wednesday.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

It's not, but you excuse Gears of War's cutscenes for being...err...."videogamey?", therefore uncanney valley does not apply? Did you watch the cutscene I just showed you?

Yes, I'd absolutely "excuse" Gears of War 2 as it never really approaches realism. Uncharted occasionally does, making it all the more eerie than anything in an already mechanical scene.

And I'm not saying that Gears 2 has the same quality animation. It does however have a strong lead character spearheading a squad with other strong characters, and their in-game interaction is well written and well delivered. It excels much like Uncharted at what it does, providing an engaging campaign by way of matching character performance and writing with the on-screen action and overall plot. I'll agree with that the emotional stuff was really bad, but it was bad mostly because it was a poor fit for the game.

 

[Akia]

I think you've set your expectations too high, and by doing so Uncharted 2 will never live up to those expectations and you will ultimately blame it on the multiplayer when the final game comes out.

Uncharted 2 was never going to reinvent the wheel. If you are expecting anything more than Uncharted 1 mechanics + new locations + new cutscenes + better puzzles/platforming/stealth, then you're expecting something that Uncharted isn't.

I don't think they're too high. I think that Naughty Dog is capable of pleasantly surprising people who've already played Uncharted. All those things you listed are great but I hope they add enough new mechanics to differentiate this game from Uncharted 1. I want Drake to travel to different places in the world hunting treasure past the Himalayas. That plus all the other things that are expected from a new Uncharted game (new cutscenes+music+puzzles).

I'm not too worried about the character development since they've got that down pretty well. I just want them to surpass everyone's expectations on what a the next Naughty Dog single player experience can be. It would be easier on them if they had less modes on they're plate. But since they're spreading themselves out I'm worried they're just going to phone the single player in.

 

[blindrocket]

Hey, I heard that Uncharted 2 has multiplayer! Isn't that awesome!

 

[beast786]

Its already 27th here. I want to be electrified.

Come on... Let drake Loose

 

[DestinRL]

have you played Darkness, the SP was really great

Yeah, I'd put it up there with MGS4

/end sarcasm.

I didn't like Darkness at all.

 

[Shurs]

Yeah, I'd put it up there with MGS4

/end sarcasm.

I didn't like Darkness at all.

At least it tried to be unique.

 

[Das-J]

Looks like the MAG and inFamous info will be coming in on Wednesday.

It's going to be a very fun week!

 

[Shurs]

It's going to be a very fun week!

A taste?

 

[Fersis]

Hey, I heard that Uncharted 2 has multiplayer! Isn't that awesome!

Nope its the worst thing that happened to gaming!!!
The game is gonna sucks sooooo much.
</sarcasm>

Oh trust me Jeff, I will be dropping.

:lol