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Uncharted 3 |OT| All Developers Dream, But Not Equally

R

rhino4evr

Member
arne said:
As I mentioned in a follow-up, it wasn't just the actual unlockables/modifications, but the system that enabled us to do so started to be problematic. That's why it was all cut instead of just non-cosmetic changes. It was definitely a difficult decision to make.
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Any chance of seeing this stuff in the eventual "game of the year" edition?

It always reminded me of Debug mode In Sonic 1 which let you do whatever you wanted but caused multiple game crashes
 
T

Toki767

Member
Wario64 said:
Well judging by 1 line of dialogue, it sounds like the Uncharted series occurs in real time (as in, Drake Fortune events happened literally 4 years ago). Unless I misinterpreted the one scene I'm talking about. Would help if I could rewatch the cutscenes. Fix this shit Guerilla!
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4 years passed between all 3 games. Don't think they ever said how much time passed between 1 and 2 so it'd be hard to judge between 2 and 3.

Just finished the game though.

So are Nathan and Elena married or engaged? Kind of sad they didn't include a flashback scene of the proposal.
 
B

Bazhard

Banned
NateDrake said:
HHG did a UC3 rap: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nyu7JWvoe4&feature=youtu.be&t=56s

May have some footage that can be considered spoilers.
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Ugh i finally forgot about this guy and you have to bring him up?

guy is a disgrace to "gaming journalism" and i put " before and after for a reason, because gaming journalism in itself is somewhat of a joke, but HHG? guy is just straight up a walking, talking stereotype. And what's up with that stupid wrestling belt? and before someone comes in all lolumadbro? nope, just wondering how the fuck this guy is still relevant.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
Liquid_015 said:
Wow, that is strange. I also pre-ordered the CE of UC3 and amazon is telling me the estimated delivery date is November 1st.
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I order it today maybe thats why?

brandonh83 said:
Subway says my delivery estimate is anywhere between around the first of December to January.
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Damn.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Loudninja said:
Damn.
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I mean let's not kid ourselves here if it doesn't get here by Monday I'm going to make a last-minute Gamestop trip, but it would have been nice if they treated this like they treated the Gran Turismo 5 and inFamous 2 promotions.
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
brandonh83 said:
Says 8-10 weeks, but there's no way I'm waiting for it. Whenever it does get here I guess I'll just trade it in toward Final Fantasy Versus XIII.
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Good idea. Reminds me of when I was 11 and I collected 8 proof of purchases of kellogs Pops cereal for some Ren and Stimpy shorts.....and I didn't get them for 7 months.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
BruceLeeRoy said:
Good idea. Reminds me of when I was 11 and I collected 8 proof of purchases of kellogs Pops cereal for some Ren and Stimpy shorts.....and I didn't get them for 7 months.
Click to expand...

Be sure to drink your Ovaltine.
 
S

Samus4145

Member
brandonh83 said:
Says 8-10 weeks, but there's no way I'm waiting for it. Whenever it does get here I guess I'll just trade it in toward Final Fantasy Versus XIII.
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If the subway copies aren't punched just return that copy from where you buy the other one
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Samus4145 said:
If the subway copies aren't punched just return that copy from where you buy the other one
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I'm hoping that's the case, yeah. It will definitely help ease my budget so I mean I'm still glad I won it. But I'm not waiting that long to play it.
 
M

Mr.Swag

Banned
Anyone else going to just beat this in one sitting? I don't plan on going to class wendesday lol.

Replaying U2 right now. Goty 09
 
G

GillianSeed79

Member
Put my pre-order down today. Work's going to be hell next week, so I don't know much I'll be able to play. Can't wait, though, I've been on a near media blackout since the reveal.
 
B

Bigfoot

Member
hey_it's_that_dog said:
It's been explained (by Arne, community manager) that all the cheats/skins have been removed from single player due to causing too many bugs.

Some people seem to have accepted this excuse immediately but I remain skeptical about the skins part at least.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it does seem a bit fishy claiming everything (engine changes, weapons, and skins) need to be grouped together. I don't see how they are related or how skin changes and weapon select would cause major bugs that couldn't be resolved.

If anything, this statement by Arne kind of knocks ND programmers god status down a peg and shows that they are only human if they couldn't figure it out.
 
M

madmaxx350

Member
Porthos said:
Yeah, it does seem a bit fishy claiming everything (engine changes, weapons, and skins) need to be grouped together. I don't see how they are related or how skin changes and weapon select would cause major bugs that couldn't be resolved.

If anything, this statement by Arne kind of knocks ND programmers god status down a peg and shows that they are only human if they couldn't figure it out.
Click to expand...

As a programmer in training, i can only laugh at that line.
 
B

Bigfoot

Member
madmaxx350 said:
As a programmer in training, i can only laugh at that line.
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As a programmer for a living, I don't see why. Any bug can be fixed with enough time and skill.

Edit: What I meant by my statement is that ND aren't amazing programmers that can do anything as some make them out to be. They are definitely very good and some of the best in the gaming industry but sometime statements made by Uncharted-GAF seem to put them leagues above other game programmers.

And of course time was a factor. I wasn't really making a knock against ND, more against those on GAF that give them this "god-status".
 
M

madmaxx350

Member
Porthos said:
As a programmer for a living, I don't see why. Any bug can be fixed with enough time and skill.
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But wouldn't that mean more time till I get the game, and the way he worded it made it sound like it was one of those things that you come to when you code, as in you go one way to reach a goal and there's a bug that comes up that, to fix, you'd have to literally start over and go another direction, in their case like major engine revision. I wouldn't want to have to wait for the game, sorry.
 
T

thuway

Member
Porthos said:
As a programmer for a living, I don't see why. Any bug can be fixed with enough time and skill.

Edit: What I meant by my statement is that ND aren't amazing programmers that can do anything as some make them out to be. They are definitely very good and some of the best in the gaming industry but sometime statements made by Uncharted-GAF seem to put them leagues above other game programmers.

And of course time was a factor. I wasn't really making a knock against ND, more against those on GAF that give them this "god-status".
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Stupid post is stupid.

If you read some of the articles about the dev cycle on this game, you'll realize they've been working to the bone till the very last day. They pushed gold back a week. Top tier AAA games with massive, expansive, single players are not easy to do in two years.
 
D

d0c_zaius

Member
Porthos said:
As a programmer for a living, I don't see why. Any bug can be fixed with enough time and skill.
Click to expand...

Not true at all. Sorry.

It's not like we look for things to remove, but sometimes we have to make calls like that.

All we (and specifically I) can hope is that the content provided is enough of a value to justify the price, which I think it overwhelmingly is.
 
G

gundamkyoukai

Member
Porthos said:
As a programmer for a living, I don't see why. Any bug can be fixed with enough time and skill.

Edit: What I meant by my statement is that ND aren't amazing programmers that can do anything as some make them out to be. They are definitely very good and some of the best in the gaming industry but sometime statements made by Uncharted-GAF seem to put them leagues above other game programmers.

And of course time was a factor. I wasn't really making a knock against ND, more against those on GAF that give them this "god-status".
Click to expand...

Gaf put them above others because of how the games look .
ND always get the best out the system they are working on .
 
S

Shadow780

Member
The camera work from
junk yard to cruise ship
sequence is absolutely amazing, I was on the edge of my couch the whole time, as far as cinematic game goes this is simply top-notch.
 
T

Toki767

Member
baekshi said:
Hardly, I found two in Co-Op Arena, but the game won't just start up. :\
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I just played a round of Co-Op Arena. I like the changes they did. There's no more time limit. Instead your team just gets 15 lives to finish 10 waves.
 
W

WebScud

Member
arne said:
As I mentioned in a follow-up, it wasn't just the actual unlockables/modifications, but the system that enabled us to do so started to be problematic. That's why it was all cut instead of just non-cosmetic changes. It was definitely a difficult decision to make.
Click to expand...

That's a bummer. I really enjoyed them in the previous games, but I can understand what you mean having just finished the campaign. There are some spots where that stuff just wouldn't work. I know Uncharted 2 had the tweaks on uncompleted difficulty bug, too.

I'm glad the gameplay stats and treasures carry over through the difficulties. I also like that Crushing unlocks after a playthrough on Normal. I don't know if that stuff happened in the previous games since my play method was Normal > Very Easy with Tweaks > Hard > Crushing. Maybe I never noticed.
 
U

Uno Venova

Banned
highluxury said:
Jeez... you guys can bitch about anything.
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Loosing something that greatly increased the replayability of the SP being gone is not worth complaining about. I wonder what it does take for "bitching" to be acceptable.
 
D

d0c_zaius

Member
WebScud said:
That's a bummer. I really enjoyed them in the previous games, but I can understand what you mean having just finished the campaign. There are some spots where that stuff just wouldn't work. I know Uncharted 2 had the tweaks on uncompleted difficulty bug, too.

I'm glad the gameplay stats and treasures carry over through the difficulties. I also like that Crushing unlocks after a playthrough on Normal. I don't know if that stuff happened in the previous games since my play method was Normal > Very Easy with Tweaks > Hard > Crushing. Maybe I never noticed.
Click to expand...

It did not. This is one of the things we changed from U1/U2 to U3. Also, wassup WebScud from the NDI boards!

Grisby said:
That's an acceptable complaint man. Especially when previous UC games have been packed with it.
Click to expand...

Yea, its valid and understandable when some features get removed that were in the previous titles. As I mentioned previously all we can do is make the experience the most refined as possible while hoping the new content and features help make up for the things that couldn't be included.
 
L

LowEndTorque

Member
Porthos said:
They are definitely very good and some of the best in the gaming industry but sometime statements made by Uncharted-GAF seem to put them leagues above other game programmers.
Click to expand...

They are leagues above most other programmers.

It's true that there is a lot of crazy hyperbolic praising of ND which probably disgusts a lot of people on gaf, and understandably so.

But how many other games out there can you list that within a 2 year development cycle with relatively small core team of staff and facing huge expectations on the heels of one of the most critically acclaimed games of this generation, manage to outdo it's predecessor graphically as hands down the best looking game on consoles, all the while managing to add more contextual animations, crazier set pieces and cinematics, better puzzles, completely re-vamped multiplayer with tons of additions/depth added, more co-op content etc. etc.. How many other developers do you know that can pull shit like this off? Give full credit where credit is due.
 
E

EloquentM

aka Mannny
Tricky I Shadow said:
No single player unlocks and not being able to watch cut-scenes is definitely disappointing. Why did no one mention this before? : (
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We didn't know until people started beating the game.
 
B

Bigfoot

Member
d0c_zaius said:
Not true at all. Sorry.

It's not like we look for things to remove, but sometimes we have to make calls like that.

All we (and specifically I) can hope is that the content provided is enough of a value to justify the price, which I think it overwhelmingly is.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying and agree that compromises need to be made, but I still stand by my statement that any bug can be fixed with time and skill.

In my industry we have to ship bug-free and full featured because peoples lives depend on it, so we will ship as late as necessary. I realize gaming is different and more time constrained, so of course things need to be pulled. I'm just disappointed it was the rewards system as I enjoyed it in UC1 and 2.
 
D

d0c_zaius

Member
Porthos said:
I understand what you are saying and agree that compromises need to be made, but I still stand by my statement that any bug can be fixed with time and skill.

In my industry we have to ship bug-free and full featured because peoples lives depend on it, so we will ship as late as necessary. I realize gaming is different and more time constrained, so of course things need to be pulled. I'm just disappointed it was the rewards system as I enjoyed it in UC1 and 2.
Click to expand...

And as I said, 7 years in the game industry has shown me bugs you can't fix regardless of time and skill. There are other circumstances involved than just those two factors. But its a circular debate at this point. I wish I could be specific but its just not possible.

But I do understand (and as a player, share) your disappointment about this feature being not carried over.

edit: reading that paragraph below does not bring back good memories...
 
S

SolidSnakex

Member
ND had a much more serious problem to worry about near U3's gold master

Wells relates, "We were three days from gold master -- a [few] weeks ago -- and our lead programmer comes in with Christophe and [game director] Justin Richmond, and they shut the door. I'm like, 'Why are we having a closed door conversation so close to gold master?' He sits down with the most depressed look on his face, and he says, Guys, I took the game home, and it's a mess.'" The problem: the game performs just fine -- for the first half. After reaching the halfway point, numerous bugs would crop up. Objects would disappear. Walls would flicker in and out of existence. Nathan could find himself in a hall devoid of anything -- geometry, texture, lighting, etc.

Wells continues, "All of these bugs point to the exact same problem in our streaming system. We are streaming stuff constantly; we're abusing the PlayStation 3 like a bad child. We're streaming audio, music, animation, video, levels, textures, everything. We're filling the memory, and about halfway through, it gets jammed up so that when we ask for a texture, it's not there; we ask for an animation, and it's not there." Balestra interjects to note that the reason this bug came up was because the programmer happened to play the game on an older test unit -- most of Naughty Dog's Quality Assurance team were using newer debug hardware and hence weren't running into this issue. The developers realized that a lot of fans still probably play games on launch-era PS3 systems, and this bug could end up ruining a lot of players' experiences.

Balestra remembers having an intense two-hour-plus discussion with lead programmers Travis McIntosh and Christian Gyrling to nail down exactly what triggers the game's meltdown at the halfway point, and they concluded that somehow, the streaming system was causing the PS3's hard-drive to fragment, which therefore led to lots of seeks when requesting data, and said seeks would cause the "traffic jam" that Wells described earlier. Wells notes, "Even though it's literally past the day that we told Sony, 'We're not changing the code anymore, trust us,' we went in and changed the most fundamental and frequently called function in the game."

The lead programmers made a tweak to the code and then burned a new disc with the revisions. Then they had two testers play the old and new code side-by-side; one tester played the old code on a relatively old system while the other tester played the freshly fixed version on the oldest PS3 in the office. Wells finishes, "Right away, we notice that one system is doing better while the other is pretty bad. There was this [specific] threshold we were looking for, 3000, and we knew that was when things would get bad. The number kept creeping up and up, and right when both systems hit 3000, we saw that one guy would go around a corner, and nothing in the world existed -- while the other guy went around the corner, and everything was fine."
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http://www.1up.com/features/mapping-uncharted-3-drake-deception?pager.offset=7
 
A

arne

Member
badcrumble said:
Any chance it could get patched in at a later date? I know you're going to say "no," but I have to ask.
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Well, the studio is pretty empty today, but that question of what could get patched in has been raised by a few of us if it's at all possible. Although that is specific to the cutscene viewer. Everything else I know has no chance to getting patched in, since that entire system of SP game modifications isn't present to begin with.
 
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