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[AcademicSaucer]

The U.S.-led coalition in Iraq and Syria appears to have used white phosphorus-loaded munitions on at least two occasions in densely populated areas of Mosul and in the Islamic State’s de facto capital of Raqqa, according to videos posted online and human rights groups.

The often-controversial munitions are common in western militaries and are used primarily to create smoke screens, though they can also be dropped as an incendiary weapon. When a white phosphorus shell explodes, the chemical inside reacts with the air, creating a thick white cloud. When it comes in contact with flesh, it can maim and kill by burning to the bone.

While international humanitarian law stipulates that civilians must be protected from all military operations, it also says that countries must take even more care when using white phosphorus. Additionally, because of the weapon’s ability to cause grievous and inhumane injuries, rights groups caution against using white phosphorus to kill enemy troops if other weapons are available.

On Thursday, footage posted by the activist group Raqqa is Being Slaughtered Silently showed the signature spread of airburst white phosphorus munitions — probably M825 series 155mm artillery rounds — exploding over eastern Raqqa, the same area where U.S.-backed Syrian fighters made advances earlier this week.

U.S. Army Col. Ryan Dillon, a spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition fighting in Iraq and Syria, would not confirm the use of the munition but said in an email that the U.S. military uses it in “accordance with the law of armed conflict” and that white phosphorus rounds are “used for screening, obscuring, and marking in a way that fully considers the possible incidental effects on civilians and civilian structures.”

“The coalition takes all reasonable precautions to minimize the risk of incidental injury to non-combatants and damage to civilian structures,” he said.

“White phosphorus should not be air burst over populated areas due to its indiscriminate effect but it’s not clear from available information that civilians are in the area,” Wareham said. “The [Iraqi Security Forces] is claiming that it used white phosphorus to protect civilians. As such, more information is needed to determine whether the white phosphorus use here is lawful.”

Many videos in the source

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...eas-in-iraq-and-syria/?utm_term=.57ef79cabf82

 

[Ushay]

Isn't the use of chemical weapons banned?

 

[dan2026]

They really just don't care do they?

 

[Windam]

what in the fuck not even Hitler used chemical weapons

 

[moggio]

I'm sure no civilians will be harmed, guys!

 

[Flai]

what in the fuck not even Hitler used chemical weapons

White phosphorous is often used for smoke-screening and illumination purposes.

 

[jakonovski]

The moral decay was inevitable given who is CinC.

 

[Nerazar]

They really just don't care do they?

It's Raqqa, the heart of the IS. Whoever lives there now is a "citizen" and probably a follower of their state.

But it's still drastic to use white phosphorus. Aren't there any other ways of deploying smoke screens?

 

[NEO0MJ]

White phosphorous is often used for smoke-screening and illumination purposes.

The poster was being cheeky and was referencing a US official who said that, even though it's false.

It's Raqqa, the heart of the IS. Whoever lives there now is a "citizen" and probably a follower of their state.

Aren't some of the people there forced to stay by IS?

 

[Xando]

The moral decay was inevitable given who is CinC.

The US has been using white phosphorus since Vietnam.

Hell, they used white phosphorus bombs to burn german and japanese cities in WW2.

It's Raqqa, the heart of the IS. Whoever lives there now is a "citizen" and probably a follower of their state.

I'm sure the female Yazidis slaves kept by ISIS in raqqa love living there.

 

[King Tubby]

I really hope no civilians got hurt, but who are we kidding?

Also, for any technical sticklers, white phosphorus is not considered a chemical weapon. It's classified as an incendiary weapon.

 

[Dinokill]

what in the fuck not even Hitler used chemical weapons

You can't be serious, right?

 

[dripdripsplash]

It's Raqqa, the heart of the IS. Whoever lives there now is a "citizen" and probably a follower of their state.

But it's still drastic to use white phosphorus. Aren't there any other ways of deploying smoke screens?

People are killed for trying to leave Raqqa. Don't be an ass.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

White phosphorous is often used for smoke-screening and illumination purposes.

You can't be serious, right?

The poster was being cheeky and was referencing a US official who said that, even though it's false.

That official is none other than White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeGM41aktoA

 

[Tacitus_]

 

[Wenger'sBakedBaguettes]

White phosphorous is often used for smoke-screening and illumination purposes.

In this situation smoke-screening was needed. The report from Mosul came from a Kurdish TV crew, and keep in mind that Kurdish journalists have a long history of starting smear campaigns, spreading lies and spreading propaganda both in Iraq and abroad against the central government. This is all while keeping silent about the Kurdish dictatorship they live under. Kurdish reporting on anything non-Kurdish in Iraq should be taken with a grain of salt considering how many times they've been exposed for lying. One probably shouldn't even trust them on Kurdish issues either since their media is tightly controlled and ran by Massoud Barzani (and his mafia), their dictator and God.

This happens frequently when civilians are escaping towards the security forces from ISIS, not just in Mosul but in other areas that were liberated as well. There's been plenty of times when civilians have been shot dead by ISIS snipers as they were escaping towards ISF. As usual most Kurdish journalists reporting on non-Kurdish Iraq are full of shit with ulterior motives.

 

[Mondrian]

You can't be serious, right?

Hopefully just some Sean Spicer-level sarcasm

 

[enzo_gt]

It's Raqqa, the heart of the IS. Whoever lives there now is a "citizen" and probably a follower of their state.

But it's still drastic to use white phosphorus. Aren't there any other ways of deploying smoke screens?

Uh, what? They occupied Raqqa, didn't just move everyone out and move themselves in. and those people aren't necessarily extremists now because the occupying force is.

 

[Imperfected]

From the pictures that looks more consistent with a smokescreen than a carpet bombing.

If you're going to incinerate someone with the stuff you generally don't just do it a little.

 

[ChemicalCutthroat]

In some engagements, ground attack fighters like the A-10's will use phosphorous rockets to light up an area to verify targets before making an attack run. But that is usually all we use them for.

I still remember that bit from Spec Ops: The Line... that disturbed me quite a bit.

 

[Syder]

what in the fuck not even Hitler used chemical weapons

Sick reference, bro.

 

[Abinash117]

In this situation smoke-screening was needed. The report from Mosul came from a Kurdish TV crew, and keep in mind that Kurdish journalists have a long history of starting smear campaigns, spreading lies and spreading propaganda both in Iraq and abroad against the central government. This is all while keeping silent about the Kurdish dictatorship they live under. Kurdish reporting on anything non-Kurdish in Iraq should be taken with a grain of salt considering how many times they've been exposed for lying. One probably shouldn't even trust them on Kurdish issues either since their media is tightly controlled and ran by Massoud Barzani (and his mafia), their dictator and God.



This happens frequently when civilians are escaping towards the security forces from ISIS, not just in Mosul but in other areas that were liberated as well. There's been plenty of times when civilians have been shot dead by ISIS snipers as they were escaping towards ISF. As usual most Kurdish journalists reporting on non-Kurdish Iraq are full of shit with ulterior motives.

Is that Facebook account owned by the Iraqi military?



Anyway, if the US military used white phosphorus as a weapon in this situation, I would think there would reports of civilians or ISIS burning.It would definitely be used as propaganda by ISIS.

 

[jakonovski]

Anyway, if the US military used white phosphorus as a weapon in this situation, I would think there would reports of civilians or ISIS burning.It would definitely be used as propaganda by ISIS.

I don't think I've seen ISIS ever use that sort of propaganda. They seem so depraved that it simply doesn't occur to them to use it like that.

 

[Dopus]

Edit: Wrong person I was responding to.

 

[darkinstinct]

U.S. Army Col. Ryan Dillon, a spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition fighting in Iraq and Syria, would not confirm the use of the munition but said in an email that the U.S. military uses it in “accordance with the law of armed conflict” and that white phosphorus rounds are “used for screening, obscuring, and marking in a way that fully considers the possible incidental effects on civilians and civilian structures.”

We consider the effects, we just don't care about them.

 

[polyh3dron]

that's just our harmless buddy willie pete, don't worry about him he's harmless

 

[Skyzard]

They've been using it for a while:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4440664.stm

 

[shamanick]

Where is The Line for the US govt

 

[Raylan Targaryen]

The often-controversial munitions are common in western militaries and are used primarily to create smoke screens, though they can also be dropped as an incendiary weapon.

Why not use something else, or create something that could serve as a smoke screen instead of having to use an incendiary weapon to serve as a smoke screen?

 

[marrec]

So we're going to sit here and pretend that this doesn't look consistent with white phosphorus air bursts and there aren't multiple ones in the same area?

This was Iraqi forces using it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4vL51RQjKs

I mean, if it was used as a screen for escaping civilians though?

 

[Skyzard]

Why not use something else, or create something that could serve as a smoke screen instead of having to use an incendiary weapon to serve as a smoke screen?

Doesn't come with the extra chemical weapon benefits.

"Shock and awe"

 

[gutter_trash]

Sean Spicer's own words

 

[Dopus]

I mean, if it was used as a screen for escaping civilians though?

It's currently being investigated so I'll wait to see the results.

Firing it into dense urban areas, it wouldn't be surprising if there were casualties when it is deployed. And I'm not sure that I would be particularly surprised if it was indeed being used as a weapon.

 

[Woo-Fu]

If you can't use WP for smoke then you can't use fuels in any of your vehicles either. All chemicals, all can be used as weapons.

 

[Skyzard]

If you can't use WP for smoke then you can't use fuels in any of your vehicles either. All chemicals, all can be used as weapons.

It's just like driving a car!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxfPCPA2d60

God.

 

[Woo-Fu]

It's just like driving a car!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxfPCPA2d60

God.

Considering cars have been used for mass killings recently you might want to pick a different example.

Any shells of any type fired over a population center pose a danger to civilians, regardless of what they're carrying. You can be killed by casing fragments. Which means you don't fight at all in those areas and cede the territory to insurgents/guerrillas meaning you never achieve your objectives or you define acceptable risk and plan your missions around it.

If it were easy, simple, and/or safe, the fighting would have been over centuries ago.

 

[marrec]

It's currently being investigated so I'll wait to see the results.

Firing it into dense urban areas, it wouldn't be surprising if there were casualties when it is deployed. And I'm not sure that I would be particularly surprised if it was indeed being used as a weapon.

I wouldn't be necessarily surprised... however there are more effective munitions to use as weapons if the goal is enemy casualties.

If you want to screen civilian escape in a dense urban area with multiple sniper posts though... it seems like this would be the most effective method.

We'll have to wait and see what an independant investigations finds.

 

[Skyzard]

Considering cars have been used for mass killings recently you might want to pick a different example.

Fucking hell.

 

[Zyae]

what in the fuck not even Hitler used chemical weapons

This is not true.

 

[gutter_trash]

This is not true.

Sean Spicer said those words, that is why that poster is posting it.

a jab at Spicer

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Assad uses chemical weapons, must be stopped....

Uses chemical weapons

 

[marrec]

Assad uses chemical weapons, must be stopped....

Uses chemical weapons

White phosphorus isn't a chemical weapon tho?

 

[Dopus]

White phosphorus isn't a chemical weapon tho?

This is a good take on it.

https://sites.duke.edu/lawfire/2016...ever-be-used-that-way-probably-not-but-maybe/

 

[Skyzard]

White phosphorus isn't a chemical weapon tho?

It is if it's used against people, which it is, despite claims. US have stated how they're free to use it to flush out the enemy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4440664.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions#Effects_on_people

I'll spare you the images.

 

[notsol337]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK224560/

White phosphorus is not a chemical weapon. It's an obscuring agent. If a white phosphorus grenade is set on top of something and set off, it'll burn through things. Airburst white phosphorus is not used as a weapon. The US prefers to drop bombs and fire missiles into areas it wants to kill people in.

 

[marrec]

This is a good take on it.

https://sites.duke.edu/lawfire/2016...ever-be-used-that-way-probably-not-but-maybe/

It is if it's used against people, which it is, despite claims. US have stated how they're free to use it to flush out the enemy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4440664.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions#Effects_on_people

I'll spare you the images.

Clearly when used as an anti-personnel munition it's terrible, I'm not debating that.

However if it's being used to screen civilian escape from sniper nests I have no problem with its deployment.

 

[Beerman462]

It is if it's used against people, which it is, despite claims. US have stated how they're free to use it to flush out the enemy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4440664.stm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions#Effects_on_people

I'll spare you the google image results.

From the looks of the image in the OP this was an airburst and the white phosphorus burnt up before it hit the ground leaving the smoke screen aka it's intention. People are looking into this too deep.

 

[N7.Angel]

America, are you still the good guy ?

 

[Skyzard]

^ they haven't been for decades

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK224560/

White phosphorus is not a chemical weapon. It's an obscuring agent. If a white phosphorus grenade is set on top of something and set off, it'll burn through things. Airburst white phosphorus is not used as a weapon. The US prefers to drop bombs and fire missiles into areas it wants to kill people in.

I understand that the article sounds scary, but this is not a chemical weapon attack. The smoke from white phosphorus reaches air temperature and is a lung irritant in the same way that wood smoke is. If you want to prevent people from getting shot, use white phosphorus. The smoke defeats thermal imagery.

It is a chemical weapon. Classifying as anything else, pretending they don't use it on people is bullshit. It causes severe burning, sticking to the skin and death by inhalation, and the US uses it on people:

The US state department had earlier said white phosphorus had been used in Falluja very sparingly, for illumination purposes.

Col Venable said that statement was based on "poor information".

"The combined effects of the fire and smoke - and in some case the terror brought about by the explosion on the ground - will drive them out of the holes so that you can kill them with high explosives," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4440664.stm

 

[Mulberry]

I use to work for a guy who got hit in the face with a WP grenade. It happened in WWII and the results weren't pretty.