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[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I urge everyone to spread the tidbit of news about Bell's insurance plan. Its a piece of information no one seems to give attention to but is the clutch factor in how bullshit everything is.

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpI...tem_sku=VasIntInsurance&region=ON&language=en

Bell offers 40gb for $5, instead of paying the normal $2/gb overage charge. Do you guys realize how much this is? 12.5 cents per gigabyte. $25 for 200gb. Bell has this available to all customers. Even if 90% of their customers do not go over their cap limits, all this bandwidth is available regardless. Instead, we get UBB.

Well, you might get what you want today:

Another hearing @ 330-530 pm, featuring TekSavvy's Rocky Gaudrault & George Burger, Primus' Matt Stein, Jean-Francois Mezei (the sexy Habs fan from Vaxination Informatique), and many more.

 

[faust666]

I urge everyone to spread the tidbit of news about Bell's insurance plan. Its a piece of information no one seems to give attention to but is the clutch factor in how bullshit everything is.

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpI...tem_sku=VasIntInsurance&region=ON&language=en

Bell offers 40gb for $5, instead of paying the normal $2/gb overage charge. Do you guys realize how much this is? 12.5 cents per gigabyte. $25 for 200gb. Bell has this available to all customers. Even if 90% of their customers do not go over their cap limits, all this bandwidth is available regardless. Instead, we get UBB.

1. That's what UBB is, which is why you aren't getting the reaction you think you should be seeing.

2. That's similar to the UBB plan teksavvy is preparing to offer if this ever goes through.

How can you fight for something when you don't even know what you're fighting for?

 

[Threi]

I urge everyone to spread the tidbit of news about Bell's insurance plan. Its a piece of information no one seems to give attention to but is the clutch factor in how bullshit everything is.

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpI...tem_sku=VasIntInsurance&region=ON&language=en

Bell offers 40gb for $5, instead of paying the normal $2/gb overage charge. Do you guys realize how much this is? 12.5 cents per gigabyte. $25 for 200gb. Bell has this available to all customers. Even if 90% of their customers do not go over their cap limits, all this bandwidth is available regardless. Instead, we get UBB.

Yeah right now im on the 25GB plan + 80GB extra, works out cheaper than the listed plans on the website.

This was for a while though, so I guess they had this plan in their head for a long while.

 

[Firestorm]

They can't monitor Optik (yet) since the same internet line that feeds your computer feeds the TV, they have no way to currently differentiate between the two.

If that were the reason they could have monitored the Turbo lines before which they didn't. They can't monitor usage period afaik.

 

[Dunlop]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...-of-internet-usage-regulators/article1898151/

any exposure to this issue is a good thing. Very perturbed about the timing of the whole Wind Mobile thing

 

[YYZ]

I urge everyone to spread the tidbit of news about Bell's insurance plan. Its a piece of information no one seems to give attention to but is the clutch factor in how bullshit everything is.

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpI...tem_sku=VasIntInsurance&region=ON&language=en

Bell offers 40gb for $5, instead of paying the normal $2/gb overage charge. Do you guys realize how much this is? 12.5 cents per gigabyte. $25 for 200gb. Bell has this available to all customers. Even if 90% of their customers do not go over their cap limits, all this bandwidth is available regardless. Instead, we get UBB.

They will just argue that it's insurance so you pay less ahead of time as with any other insurance, which itself is not bullshit. The prices themselves are bullshit.

 

[Stumpokapow]

They will just argue that it's insurance so you pay less ahead of time as with any other insurance, which itself is not bullshit. The prices themselves are bullshit.

Insurance is bullshit when the insurance company is also the company you're buying insurance against!

 

[YYZ]

Well, that's true, but then there's no way in hell that I would want bandwidth insurance from a third party because it legitimizes the false premise that bandwidth is scarce and even needs insurance. That would be taking even more steps backwards.

 

[rabhw]

Well, you might get what you want today:

Another hearing @ 330-530 pm, featuring TekSavvy's Rocky Gaudrault & George Burger, Primus' Matt Stein, Jean-Francois Mezei (the sexy Habs fan from Vaxination Informatique), and many more.

Will this one be streamed on CPAC like last week's?

 

[big_z]

Will this one be streamed on CPAC like last week's?

i hope so but i dont expect the circus of stupid to return. im sure the crtc, bell and friends have assembled a team of sleazeball dickbags to make sure they look like the victim in all this. hopefully those on our side have taken some time to review the subject at hand and familiarize themselves with the lingo.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

I hope this hearing goes better than the last one. TekSavvy has a chance here to tell it like it is.

 

[YYZ]

I'm reading on dslreports.com that the room it's scheduled to be in has no video capabilities. Everything must be recorded at least on audio though and there should be an audio stream. The first hearing was originally scheduled in a room without video as well.

 

[Zombie James]

The CRTC is asking for public comments until April 29th (click submit on notice 2011-77). One easy point of attack:

In the statement from the CRTC, Mr. von Finckenstein said the commission’s review would be governed by two guiding principles:

1. As a general rule, ordinary consumers served by Small ISPs should not have to fund the bandwidth used by the heaviest residential Internet consumers, and

2. It is in the best interest of consumers that Small ISPs, which offer competitive alternatives to the Large Distributors, should continue to do so.

“With these principles in mind, we will be reviewing our decisions with fresh eyes and look forward to hearing the views of Canadians,” he said.

Principal #1 is flawed.

 

[dream]

Any word on a stream?

 

[Decado]

Looks the same as it is now - that Extreme pack is the same price, same speed, and same cap as I have now.

Phew.

I just have "high speed". What I want to know is whether they'll start actually enforcing their cap. Pretty sure I routinely go way over my "cap" and have never been charged or warned.

Also, I assume the 60 and 100gb plans are data transfer total, not just download.

 

[Zombie James]

Hope someone's archiving the meeting.

 

[YYZ]

Hope someone's archiving the meeting.

this is a government-type meeting. EVERYTHING is archived.

 

[Threi]

Please note that we have identified an issue that may cause Internet usage shown on this site to be incorrect in some cases. In order to ensure we provide reliable information to all our clients, the usage tracker will be unavailable while we resolve the issue. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Now i could hope that this means that they finally noticed that their tracker is always roughly 10-15% higher than what is reported on my router...but i know better.

 

[YakiSOBA]

Explain something to me...

Right now I have rogers with a 60gb limit... after this ruling (if it comes to pass), it doesn't matter what my contract with rogers is, they will be eliminating the 60gb limit and making it 25gb?

Will they then turn around and re-sell a 60gb limit for MORE than what I'm paying now, since 25gb is the new standard?

edit: hmm I actually have 95gb/month and I have rogers extreme it says... currently paying 59.99 - 30% off promotional for the next 24 months. So, does this mean after this potential ruling, they will shrink that 95gb to 25gb?

 

[EvilMario]

Explain something to me...

Right now I have rogers with a 60gb limit... after this ruling (if it comes to pass), it doesn't matter what my contract with rogers is, they will be eliminating the 60gb limit and making it 25gb?

Will they then turn around and re-sell a 60gb limit for MORE than what I'm paying now, since 25gb is the new standard?

This is DSL only right now, but if it passes, cable will follow.

The idea is right now (if it comes to pass), you'll pay a base price for the 25gb ($35~ish), and then you'll have the chance to buy 'insurance' blocks for extra space.

 

[somuchwater]

Explain something to me...

Right now I have rogers with a 60gb limit... after this ruling (if it comes to pass), it doesn't matter what my contract with rogers is, they will be eliminating the 60gb limit and making it 25gb?

Will they then turn around and re-sell a 60gb limit for MORE than what I'm paying now, since 25gb is the new standard?

You're confusing separate things. Yhe UBB ruling being discussed has nothing directly to do with what caps Rogers enforces. Your cap won't change as a result of these proceedings, which are about what big ISPs can charge the smaller ones that deliver service over Bell/Rogers' networks.

Easy mistake to make though since everyone is confusing things

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

The CRTC is asking for public comments until April 29th (click submit on notice 2011-77). One easy point of attack:



Principal #1 is flawed.

Submitted what I hope is a scathing comment on the situation.

Said that we, the people, pay the CRTC, not Bell and Rogers.
They are supposed to look after us not them. Mentioned how other industrialized countries have faster speeds with no caps and no overage charges.

Really hope more will stand up if the CRTC tries to push this through. The fact that old fucking farts who know nothing about how the Internet or ISPs work and are writing pieces on this in newspapers is disgusting. They make it look as if Bell is the victim, that light users are subsidizing heavy users, and that the Interwebs is going to run out! Oh noes!

Sheesh, the fuck happened to imvestigating and presenting facts you ignorant shits.

 

[YakiSOBA]

Ohh.. I see... I hope it all works out then. I'm stuck with rogers for 2 more years, but with 30% off everything. @95gb/month, I'm pretty okay until the contract expires.

...Then i'm switching FO SHO.

 

[Globehopper]

Shaw has this linked from their homepage (for BC, at least):

The topic of Internet usage and billing is a diverse subject with many potential solutions. At Shaw, we value the voice of our customers. We will be hosting customer discussions sessions throughout February and March in service areas across Canada to engage in open dialogue on this topic.

Until this thorough consultation with customers has taken place, Shaw will not proceed with Internet usage billing. To date no Shaw Internet customer has received a bill for any usage based charges.

http://www.shaw.ca/Internet/New-Data-Usage/?WT.mc_id=C796A1718S98

I guess they got more heat than they expected...

 

[Lard]

Submitted what I hope is a scathing comment on the situation.

Said that we, the people, pay the CRTC, not Bell and Rogers.
They are supposed to look after us not them. Mentioned how other industrialized countries have faster speeds with no caps and no overage charges.

Really hope more will stand up if the CRTC tries to push this through. The fact that old fucking farts who know nothing about how the Internet or ISPs work and are writing pieces on this in newspapers is disgusting. They make it look as if Bell is the victim, that light users are subsidizing heavy users, and that the Interwebs is going to run out! Oh noes!

Sheesh, the fuck happened to imvestigating and presenting facts you ignorant shits.

Said much the same thing, and how the idea that Canada support its internet traffic is ludicrous when countries like South Korea handle multiple times the amount of traffic we have just fine.

The CRTC should be fining Bell and Rogers, not handing them the keys to Canada's online networks.

 

[a176]

They will just argue that it's insurance so you pay less ahead of time as with any other insurance, which itself is not bullshit. The prices themselves are bullshit.

The argument is that bell continues to tell the public, the CRTC, and thus the gov't, that bandwidth is ridiculously expensive and that they need to cap EVERYONE, despite they themselves offering a ridiculously cheap bandwidth package at 12.5cents per gigabyte.

 

[a176]

Ohh.. I see... I hope it all works out then. I'm stuck with rogers for 2 more years, but with 30% off everything. @95gb/month, I'm pretty okay until the contract expires.

...Then i'm switching FO SHO.

I was on that same better savings plan. When I realized the savings I would get by switching to teksavvy, I immediately cancelled the service. I had to pay ($9 savings x # of months) back to rogers but honestly, the savings from teksavvy covered that in 2 months worth of time. Another couple months will cover the modem.

 

[durendal]

I'm listening to the meeting here: http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/ParlVu/ContentEntityDetailView.aspx?ContentEntityId=7272

I only have audio. I'm not sure if there's video available.

 

[Shambles]

I'm listening to the meeting here: http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/ParlVu/ContentEntityDetailView.aspx?ContentEntityId=7272

I only have audio. I'm not sure if there's video available.

Thanks for the link. It's a shame there's no video but this is good as well.

 

[DopeyFish]

Did I miss it? They're talking about taxes for me? (cpac tv)

edit: nevermind... seperate meeting

 

[EvilMario]

I'm listening to the meeting here: http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/ParlVu/ContentEntityDetailView.aspx?ContentEntityId=7272

I only have audio. I'm not sure if there's video available.

Thanks. Listening now.

TekSavvy ripping them a new one. Explaining that a comparison to gas/electric doesn't work and straight out saying 'Bell's policy is to eliminate competition from the market'

 

[Shambles]

One thing that puzzles me is that as often as the comparison to gas and electricity comes up no one ever compares bandwidth to something that is far more accurate such as roads and transportation. How would it be fair to charge people an extra tax for those who go over a cap of having a 1 hour commute to work? Being on a road does not cost the city anything since the money has already been spent to build the road initially.

 

[Somewhat Damaged]

I liked that
"how should you be charged from bell"
"by the actual cost, thank you next question" paraphrased

 

[Slavik81]

One thing that puzzles me is that as often as the comparison to gas and electricity comes up no one ever compares bandwidth to something that is far more accurate such as roads and transportation. How would it be fair to charge people an extra tax for those who go over a cap of having a 1 hour commute to work? Being on a road does not cost the city anything since the money has already been spent to build the road initially.

Roads are generally paid for via a tax on gasoline, which amounts to a usage-based fee.

 

[The Super Bob]

This sounds pretty bad, feel sorry for all the Canadians this is going to affect. Caps are a stupid idea and shouldn't be around like this in 2011.

Over here in England I pay £19.50 per month for unlimited broadband at 8mbps, along with free calls in afternoons and weekends for the home phone.

 

[EvilMario]

So, now they had the small ISPs speak, and I'm guessing they're bringing in the 'big boys' for a rebuttal?

TekSavvy/Primus touched upon most of my major points, even though I was late into listening.

1) UBB works, but it's the cost that's killing us.
2) Comparing bytes to gas/electric does not work. There is not production value for a byte.
3) Bell is trying to eliminate competition from the market by price small ISPs out, making them basically outsource Bell internet.
4) In Europe and other countries, the 'last mile' is free and open, allowing for competition and no stranglehold.

 

[DopeyFish]

This sounds pretty bad, feel sorry for all the Canadians this is going to affect. Caps are a stupid idea and shouldn't be around like this in 2011.

Over here in England I pay £19.50 per month for unlimited broadband at 8mbps, along with free calls in afternoons and weekends for the home phone.

Funny you should bring that up, they just used British telcos as comparison

Wish they used Australian though

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

The smackdown by the first round of witnesses was great. Hopefully when Konrad hears it he wakes up. Not gonna bother listening to the second round.

 

[Shambles]

Roads are generally paid for via a tax on gasoline, which amounts to a usage-based fee.

Only indirectly. Gas tax goes towards many different areas in addition to roads and roads are paid for by many sources other than gas tax. The notion that roads are built based on our gas consumption is incorrect. It would be just as accurate to say that roads are paid for by us eatting big macs through increased corporate taxes due to increased income that eventually filters down to funds allocated for roads.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

post some updates. Some of us can't follow the stream =P

 

[a176]

wow @ this guy "mr. anderson" i didnt catch the company, but a great speech with pure facts about his business and how the internet works. applause.

 

[EvilMario]

Last fellow was a bit nervous with his fast reading, but made some good points.

Is this all small ISPs today?

 

[YYZ]

Was the first guy from PIAC or second guy? I missed the intros.

 

[DopeyFish]

the small ISPs are tearing apart the incumbents

basically driving home the point that all they are using is the last mile.... the least part of congestion... everything else is theirs

 

[DopeyFish]

oracom brought out the virus / uncontrolled bandwidth

thank you sir for making one point that needed to be said

 

[Shambles]

I like how the current speaker finally brings up that if the problem is congestion at peak times, anything more than traffic control during peak time is nothing but profittering.

 

[TheExodu5]

I like how the current speaker finally brings up that if the problem is congestion at peak times, anything more than traffic control during peak time is nothing but profittering.

It's about time someone points out the obvious.

 

[Cold-Steel]

wow @ this guy "mr. anderson" i didnt catch the company, but a great speech with pure facts about his business and how the internet works. applause.

 

[DopeyFish]

this french guy is pissed

 

[EvilMario]

I wish people would bring up the literal cost of a gb. Some of these people demonize UBB, but it's simply the cost that they charge that is insane.

Not like Bell wants to charge $0.20-$0.30 per gb for customers, which is a large markup, because the average user only uses 15gb per month.