-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ventura Beat: Nintendo Switch graphics are based on Nvidia's Maxwell Architecture
- Thread starter jbug617
- Start date
He's made a bunch of little edits since the article went up. For example, he changed the comment about Nintendo having "cartoon graphics".
Okay, this needs to be nipped in the bud right now. A mobile SoC isn't likely to cost more than $50 or so. It alone isn't going to be the difference between $200 and $300. In fact, by using an older process the chip needs more cooling and a larger battery, which offsets any cost savings. This is before considering that they may have done something with the chip to deal with the limited memory bandwidth. In other words, you should still expect $250 minimum, with up to $300 being on the table.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I mean, I'm all for freaking the fuck out, but just because it's Maxwell doesn't necessarily mean it's similar to the X1 chip, or has the inherent problems of it.
osiris3355
Banned
James Scott
Banned
3DS and Vita are still $200. Wii U is $300.
Maxwell doesn't mean the system is considerably weaker.
The article doesn't really know what it is saying. Maxwell and Pascal don't have performance differences, only wattage differences and slightly higher clocks.
For instance, Maxwell when in the dock could run 1.3ghz while Pascal could run as high as 1.5ghz. The difference here is ~670gflops vs ~770gflops, half precision for these is 1340gflops vs 1536gflops but half precision can't be used in its entirety, a mix of single precision is absolutely needed, meaning you won't get 1.3 or 1.5tflops out of these chips but 1-1.2tflops and this is the highest end. Maxwell and Pascal also out perform GCN in XB1 and PS4 by up to 40% flop to flop, this means that even that 1tflop from maxwell could match XB1.
I'm tired of this idea that Maxwell and Pascal are going to be completely different chips, the reason Pascal is better is because it runs higher clocks with less power usage with cheaper chips than Maxwell, but we know that Maxwell and Pascal run stable at 1.3 and 1.5ghz respectfully, heck if it really was maxwell at 16nm, I'm not sure they couldn't push 1.5ghz stable.
Also unless the source is an Nvidia or Nintendo engineer, I don't see how they would even know if it is maxwell or pascal, and does anyone think that Nintendo would miss this holiday with maxwell? I mean that tegra chip is ready to go, has been for the last 18 months, so why wouldn't they just put it out this holiday, why would developers not get final hardware until just recently and talk about a frame rate increase (which we can even see in the Zelda footage we saw.
With all that said, this sounds fake, Pascal is Cheaper, Smaller and runs less hot than Maxwell, and when we know that the device has "x" ALUs than the performance difference is small beyond what I just mentioned.
For instance, Maxwell when in the dock could run 1.3ghz while Pascal could run as high as 1.5ghz. The difference here is ~670gflops vs ~770gflops, half precision for these is 1340gflops vs 1536gflops but half precision can't be used in its entirety, a mix of single precision is absolutely needed, meaning you won't get 1.3 or 1.5tflops out of these chips but 1-1.2tflops and this is the highest end. Maxwell and Pascal also out perform GCN in XB1 and PS4 by up to 40% flop to flop, this means that even that 1tflop from maxwell could match XB1.
I'm tired of this idea that Maxwell and Pascal are going to be completely different chips, the reason Pascal is better is because it runs higher clocks with less power usage with cheaper chips than Maxwell, but we know that Maxwell and Pascal run stable at 1.3 and 1.5ghz respectfully, heck if it really was maxwell at 16nm, I'm not sure they couldn't push 1.5ghz stable.
Also unless the source is an Nvidia or Nintendo engineer, I don't see how they would even know if it is maxwell or pascal, and does anyone think that Nintendo would miss this holiday with maxwell? I mean that tegra chip is ready to go, has been for the last 18 months, so why wouldn't they just put it out this holiday, why would developers not get final hardware until just recently and talk about a frame rate increase (which we can even see in the Zelda footage we saw.
With all that said, this sounds fake, Pascal is Cheaper, Smaller and runs less hot than Maxwell, and when we know that the device has "x" ALUs than the performance difference is small beyond what I just mentioned.
GhostTrick
Banned
Maxwell isn't the problem. Well sure, Pascal is more power efficient so it means higher clocks possible or better battery life. But a 4SMM Maxwell would be nearly twice faster at the same clock than a 2SMM Pascal. What will matter in the end is the core count/clockspeed.
But people shluld be really wary of their expectation when it comes to Switch. The device is already a best case scenario when it comes to Nintendo handhelds or even handhelds in general.
But people shluld be really wary of their expectation when it comes to Switch. The device is already a best case scenario when it comes to Nintendo handhelds or even handhelds in general.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Hold that L like a burrito breh lol
boiled goose
good with gravy
The author making stealth edits and not documenting changes is extremely slimy and unethical.
Made mistakes? Own up to them. At this point he could be using gaf as editors lol. Someone please screencap both versions and tweet them to him and broader press.
Made mistakes? Own up to them. At this point he could be using gaf as editors lol. Someone please screencap both versions and tweet them to him and broader press.
Hmmmm...well whatever they do I hope it's a good enough balance of power to portability to both attract portable customers and bring new software into the ecosystem.
Only thing that has me worried going by the posts in here are battery and heat concerns with maxwell? Is that what the issue is?
It sounds like the device will be close enough in power to get the games I think it needs/want it to get; really doesn't seem this rumor makes it sound less powerful than we thought.
Only thing that has me worried going by the posts in here are battery and heat concerns with maxwell? Is that what the issue is?
It sounds like the device will be close enough in power to get the games I think it needs/want it to get; really doesn't seem this rumor makes it sound less powerful than we thought.
vasametropolis
Member
I don't believe it because they won't sell any units at that price. If they are targeting that price, they are truly lost.
AquaWateria
Member
Is there any examples of rumors like this making stealth edits?
OrbitalBeard
Member
The device will sell just fine at $250-$300 if it has the software to back up that price.
Yeah I agree, though I'm not sure there is a need for graphics to be as high as possible. I feel like X1 with a better memory solution would be fine, if it's handling DS3 already, I don't know if any of this matters.
JordanN
Banned
I don't really care about the source but I don't see how this is an argument for them to not use older arch.
As I posted last page, Nintendo already follows a linear design philosophy. It's not about what make sense to us, they only design things to their needs.
This idea has never been challenged since the N64.
It's not a very common or professional journalistic practice to stealth edit the article in such a manner. Usually you'd include edit notices or at least a changelog with explanations
boiled goose
good with gravy
With rumors such as this it's particularly unethical. Throw something out there and edit when corrected. Shameless...
We know it was a younger new team on Switch rather than the "old guard" Pascal does make sense from a price, battery life and the small performance upgrade. Again though, Maxwell at 16nm is basically Pascal, I don't even know of any features missing between these... X1 already added all the pascal features I know of.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Since the Famicom, really. N64 was just the first time their philosophy was visibly at odds with the rest of the industry.
This is the one time in a long ass time I felt Nintendo didn't cheap out on the specs. Having a portable that's at least Wii U level is still great to me. I'm not sure how much more power people were expecting either way. I'd be scared to see the current price and battery life of a portable that reached XB1 levels. If this didn't have the handheld factor I could agree with the disappointment, but considering what the Switch is I'm not disappointed at all
To an extent, although N64's controller with its six button configuration was a clear gesture of deference toward developers of fighting games, which were still a phenomenon at the time N64 was under development (only to have the N64 get almost no fighting games in the end).
SimpleCRIPPLE
Member
Stop being reasonable.
X1 is 4 to 5 times more powerful than Wii U, docked we are looking at even more. Mobile has just been crazy the last few years.
JordanN
Banned
In retrospect, N64 was actually the most progressive system they made.
If we were to apply their philosophy, the system should have been like the Sega Saturn, that focused on the "tried and true sprites" instead of the "completely new and industry changing polygons".
But they did use cartridges when CD's were becoming commonplace so meh, it was still a Nintendo designed product.
ProtomanNeo
Member
Either most of the people didn't read the article, don't know what they're talking about, or are being purposely obtuse.
LordOcidax
Member
I am more surprised that this thread still rolling... Gaf have a lot of tech guys that can spot the contradictions pretty quickly... Also the Gamexplain guy says in the video about the leak that Maxwell is smaller, cheaper and cooler than Pascal... is really weird...
James Scott
Banned
I think you might be going a bit too far here. 2-3x is what we've heard.
AKI wrestling games were the best fighting games of that generation though.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Don't get me wrong, I love that Nintendo does its own thing.
GhostTrick
Banned
Depends. If you consider this as a home console, yes it's slower than others. If you consider it as a gaming handheld, it's more than 10 times faster than the Vita and may even be faster than what a Vita 2 could've been.
Nintendo fans need to accept it: The Switch ain't gonna be running shit like Mass Effect Andromeda with the same graphics as the Xbox version.
It's a damn handheld. The fact that it's even being compared to consoles in terms of power is honestly incredible. Sure you can play it like a console, but even in console mode it's pretty much going to be an upclocked handheld with an HDMI out.
It's a damn handheld. The fact that it's even being compared to consoles in terms of power is honestly incredible. Sure you can play it like a console, but even in console mode it's pretty much going to be an upclocked handheld with an HDMI out.
The most damning part was in one paragraph it says games made for the Xbox One won't come for it but admit 2 paragraphs later that it is probably almost as powerful. Falling short of the Xbox One doesn't mean it can't play those games.
The truth of the matter is that pascal isn't that much better power wise than Maxwell on a clock for clock basis. The difference is all about how much PAscal reduces power consumption which would make the Switch terrible as a handheld but not necessarily as a console.
Interfectum
Member
huh
DecoReturns
Member
Nah, the Wii started their underpowered console philosophy kinda of thing.
Early days Nintendo use to try to have a console to challange others.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
We thought we were getting Perfect Cell but instead we're getting King Cold.
We thought we were getting Golden Frieza but instead we're getting Cyborg Frieza.
Is this a troll post? This is almost exactly what that other dude said.
If you've been following the threads, it's been 4-6x on average. There are some low balling folks who think 2x is where it will be, but based on the base hardware and active cooling, that just doesn't seem right. I doubt it will get anywhere near 6-10x, but we all may be surprised in the end. I'm thinking 4x is probably a safe bet, though.
GhostTrick
Banned
Basically gone from Super Perfect Cell (y'know with the zenkai boost after regeneration from blowing up) to Perfect Cell.
ME:A runs on Frostbite which is VERY scalable, it should be cool with Switch.
thenewjeva
Member
If that's the case, then I fully expect the Switch to essentially be a portable Shield TV, which is nowhere close to Xbox One levels, but would still be an impressive handheld. If we go by the price of the Shield TV currently, I think Nintendo might sell the Switch for $200, or $250 with a pack-in title. This means that it probably won't get many PS4/Xbox One ports (but were people expecting any different from Nintendo platforms?), but if the console is cheap enough and has a good selection of games at launch, it will at least gain an audience within the first year. Let's just hope they don't overprice this system again.
LordOcidax
Member
This thread is all about.. 1.Read the Thread title
2.Shit post about the Switch
3.Close the thread.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
I was gone for a few hours and this is what I walk into.
It's actually kind of boring when the person leaves and doesnt even try to follow up.
Anyways after what people have been saying im content now. Besides I have been looking at this more as a super handheld and with that im pretty good.
Most people don't expect that. Most also hope or suspect the mild difference in performance doesn't mean much.
I feel like this is a response to nothing that's generally been said in the switch speculation threads once those rumored devkit specs came out and the form factor was known.
Based on what we've heard from Laura Kate Dale, we may be looking at $250 by itself & $300 w/ the upgraded port of Splatoon.
" not so sure if the Switch is weaker than the Xbox One, as the performance may be close.."
" dont expect the highest-end games were seeing on the PS4 or Xbox One to run on the Switch."
"performance may be close."
These two statements don't add up lol. If it's in the same ballpark, it can get ports. If the 360 could get a nice looking (for the hardware) port of Rise of the Tomb Raider, which I consider one of the best looking games this gen, there's zero reasons Switch wouldn't get ports other than financial ones
" dont expect the highest-end games were seeing on the PS4 or Xbox One to run on the Switch."
"performance may be close."
These two statements don't add up lol. If it's in the same ballpark, it can get ports. If the 360 could get a nice looking (for the hardware) port of Rise of the Tomb Raider, which I consider one of the best looking games this gen, there's zero reasons Switch wouldn't get ports other than financial ones
Jaded Alyx
Member
LMAO this thread is ridiculous but this post takes the cake. What on earth made you think this made you right?? Jesus, the amount of crazy in here is off the scale. People making claims based on things they clearly don't have any clue about. Good lord.
Similar threads
- Locked