threelights
Member
Yeah, I posted before I saw the prices.
Revengeance is only 80% for another 20 hours or so too.
So I bought it =P
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Vergil teased for DMC4:SE! (Also, DmC Definitive Edition trailer)
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Yeah, I posted before I saw the prices.
Revengeance is only 80% for another 20 hours or so too.
So I bought it =P
badcrumble
Member
Nero's not a very good character from a story POV either. He and Vergil are both delightful as far as gameplay is concerned, of course.
At the end of DMC4, Nero might be in a good place to have *future* good character development depending on how where they take him. Gotta get rid of Kyrie, though, she's the most boring damsel-in-distress love interest that ever boringed, and this in a series that traditionally does a decent job of half-decent female supporting characters.
They messed up with Kyrie but otherwise Nero wasn't so bad. But like you said, gameplay more than made up for that.
EDIT: saw your edit, yeah Nero definitely has potential. Such a shame they wasted Gloria's character like that.
badcrumble
Member
Ehhhh. Gloria's not a very good character design *or* character. Bizarre waste of Trish. DMC4 was way too concerned with adding tons of cheesecake factor to Trish and Lady in a way that did them both a serious disservice.
It'd be fun to have had her as a boss fight, though.
badcrumble
Member
Cheesecake in the sense of the gratuitous T&A factor, not in the sense of having a slightly silly personality.
The only one that was questionable was Lady imo, looked like a whole lot of bad influence from Dante over the years.
Her no BS design and character stood out in DMC3.
Astral Dog
Member
Nero was the coprotagonist though,Dante still got half of the game, i was not talking about a game with Dante and Vergil as protagonists, that would be different and work well.
I meant from a story perspective, gameplay of course would be good.
Kyrie added a sweet side to Nero that he otherwise would not have, they just need her for the ending/opening and thats it.
badcrumble
Member
Definitely agree that it's more of an issue for Lady's character. Looooove her personality and character design in DMC3.
See what you mean but it could be very good honestly since they could approach new story angles, themes and locations. Like Vergil fighting his way through the Netherworld after DMC3 or something of the like.
Gameplay-wise he is also wide open to new ideas since his overall arsenal pales in comparison to Dante's.
badcrumble
Member
Not to delve to deep into the deeply shameful practices of fanfic and caring about game lore, but I'd like for DMC5's central story to be about Vergil trying to take over Nero's body, not understanding why Dante doesn't want him to come back in that kind of way, and so on. End it with Dante banishing Vergil from Nero's body, feeling kinda sad about it, then saying "fuck this" and fighting his way through hell to pull Vergil back into the physical realm himself. Something like that. It'd be a fun way to involve all three of them in the story and give all three of them their own character motivations/conflicts.
Nah, don't do it. Only reason to play DMC1 is to see how the genre started and how much it has progressed. The underwater level while somewhat inoffensive, still brings the games pace to screeching halt and only cements the fact that DMC1 was intended to be a resident evil game from the beginning. There was a plane and shump section near the end of the game, they were pretty bad. On top of all that the camera is the most atrocious piece of shit I've ever had to deal with. It fucks you over on mostly all the boss battles and even in normal combat. This combined with the fact that enemies can easily hit you off-screen and how much damage they do on any difficulty above normal. Makes for an extremely frustrating experience. The combat system is also very clunky and more puzzle based in a way; as in, once you know an enemies weakness it's super easy to kill them. Weapon switching is also very clunky(wouldn't be so bad if they threw some invincibility frames in there), the combo scoring doesn't work as you think it would, the combo variety in the game is severely limited, and the soft lock-on's main purpose is to fuck you over(especially with shadows).
Would be interesting but carries the problem of having to play the game with Vergil in Nero's body, which sort of still makes it more about Nero hehe.
Thanks bro, I'll leave it be
As someone who does regular DMC4 giveaways, the game has never dropped below 75% on Steam in the past year. It has dropped slightly lower on other sites.
badcrumble
Member
I mean, my hope is kinda that it'd end up giving us fully playable Vergil, Nero, *and* Dante. And Lady and Trish, while we're at it. But that's because (as I've said elsewhere) I want DMC5 to focus on taking missions from a shop rather than having a formal chapter-based campaign structure. A bigger number of shorter, frequently more challenging missions, basically.
Devil May Cry 1 is still my favourite in the series. While DMC3 and DMC4 are god tier for the combat, I find DMC1 more preferable because of the environments, set pieces, enemies and atmosphere. It's a short game for sure but it's a well structured one. I find it to be a lot more challenging on DMD than any of the others too and it had plenty of replay value to help negate the length of the story mode.
The Resident Evil origins can be felt and I think that's a good thing. For good or bad it certainly sticks out in the series.
The Resident Evil origins can be felt and I think that's a good thing. For good or bad it certainly sticks out in the series.
Not sure it's worth dealing with the other frustrations for that
Is there any easy way to unlock everything in the PC version?
Kind of don't feel like unlocking all the difficulties, moves, health, DT etc. again. It's also the thing I'm not looking forward to in DMC4SE.
Yeah that devil hunter/shop format would be really good and they can probably fit all of them in without getting too fancy with the story. All it would take is a cutscene or two in DMC4SE to set things up for Vergil in DMC5.
Like you mentioned, there are a lot of characters they can use so DMC has that advantage of variety that other games in the genre don't. And all of them have their own fighting styles instead of being clone characters ala Devil Hand in God Hand or Jeanne in Bayonetta.
i think her DMC4 characterization is actually pulled over from the DMC anime, where she's usually dragging dante along on jobs because he's kind of a bum when there's only minor cases.. since the dmc4 thing takes place in a big case and she's not really there, you don't get to see the part where she's still super competent and not just a sidekick character
her dmc4 costume is way worse though. way too cheesecake-y when the original costume was already mega cheesecake-y.
Yeah, I still consider DMC1 to be one of the best in the series as far as level and enemy design goes. The combat is simple, but still very enjoyable. Not "clunky" at all. It also has by far the best soundtrack and art direction.
I replayed it earlier this year 3 times in a row, finished DMD and had a blast.
I actually don't have a problem with Lady's evolution of character in DMC4. In DMC3, she was just pissed at everything, and understandably so. Years of being a professional demon hunter and hanging out with Dante have eased that edge.
You could probably use a trainer or download a save file. I don't know one off the top of my head.
You could probably use a trainer or download a save file. I don't know one off the top of my head.
badcrumble
Member
The devil hunter shop thing would also be a cool way to let you spend orbs earned with one character on getting another recently-earned character up to speed, see decorations/trophies in the shop, more closely link the idea of taking missions and buying abilities, et cetera.
badcrumble
Member
And I think that more bite-sized (but potentially more challenging) missions would be a good riff on the way that Bayonetta grades you on individual battles as well as an overall chapter - and, like Bayo 1/2's Rodin superboss, it'd allow for a much broader difficulty curve and difficulty levels above and beyond what we've been used to in the series so far. It'd mean your challenge would be "survive just this one encounter" rather than "survive several encounters in a row," and that means that the difficulty of a single encounter could be tuned up much, much higher, while also making it easier to concentrate on individual problem spots if you want to SS every single mission.
Not to mention it'd result in cutting out cruft like laser dodging.
Dominic_Shade
Member
While it's true that DMC1 is somewhat dated compared to later entries, it's still one of the quintessential of the "difficult but fair" action game styles, and there are certain things you mention here that I find a bit strange.
1) The fixed camera angles are not an impediment in battles because all enemy attacks that can potentially hit you off-screen are accompanied with distinct sound cues. Marionettes spin their shotguns before they open fire. Shadows let out a subtle "bubbling" sound before they spike you from afar. And you can hear a quiet "vrooom" just before Phantom lets loose with a fireball. A successful DMC1 player pays attention to both aural and visual tells in order to beat levels without taking damage, which is nothing unnatural in the DMC franchise.
That said, I completely get it if you find rigid camera angles in general a bother. It's no good to have your perspective changed on you in the heat of combat just because you were closing in on someone. This became less of a bother for me once I had the audio cues memorized, but I do prefer the free third-person camera of the later games.
2) Knowledge of an enemy weakness is one thing; the ability to capitalize on said knowledge is another. I find this criticism subjective because execution varies from player to player, and facing an advanced configuration of enemy types can vastly complicate a player's tactics - just like DMC3+4. It's possible that there are players who are able to pick up on the intricacies of DMC1 faster than others, but I wouldn't necessarily call this a flaw of the game, particularly since the number of enemies who can be defeated with critical hits are quite small compared to the total number of enemies in the game.
Also IIIRC, certain enemies have their weaknesses disabled on DMD. I believe the Shadows are one such foe.
3) The delayed weapon-switching is a non-factor. DMC3's weapons are meant to complement one another; for instance, Rebellion's lack of air control is made up with Cerberus, whose lack of a "Stinger" and rising launcher is offset by Rebellion. Meanwhile, DMC1's weapons can stand on their own; a player could conceivably beat the entire game exclusively with either Alastor or Ifrit (barring the Mundus fights, of course). DMC1 doesn't encourage high-speed swapping and stylish combos the way DMC3 does because a player doesn't need to do either in order to get S ranks.
4) I'm not sure what you mean by "soft-lock". Could you elaborate? My biggest problem with DMC1's lock-on system is that there's no way to switch targets, but other than that, it works just like the later games.
The only frustrating thing about the game is the water level. And even that isn't that long, and I think it's much better then say, DMC4's various filler backtracking/dice game/disappearing platforms sections.Not sure it's worth dealing with the other frustrations for that
I played DMC1 for the first time this year and it's my favourite. It's simpler but there's something pure about the design. I think it's a really fun game.
Neff
Member
Yeah, I'd advise against listening to any anti-DMC1 advice. The game's still solid and fun.
I played through FFVI twice without realising you could hold a button to run :/
Great post.
And the best in the series.
I just wanted to say that I only discovered you could switch between alastor and ifrit by clicking the right stick just this year. I felt like one of those people who played through RE4 without realizing you could run.
I played through FFVI twice without realising you could hold a button to run :/
Great post.
Yeah, DMC1 is great.
DMC1 is fairly basic, but there are a ton of intricacies to it, such as enemy weaknesses and critical hits. DMC1 is dripping with atmosphere, even with a relatively muted story. It may help to keep in mind that DMC1 was supposed to be a Resident Evil title.
DMC1 isn't the strongest combat title. The combat is responsive, feels meaty, was very deliberately placed, and set the stage for more... but the structure is almost Zelda-esque, and the combat, while finely tuned, doesn't have the same level of variety that you're probably used to. However, every weapon and move has specific uses.
There is depth to the combat, it's just less pronounced and more subtle. Approaching enemy encounters involves crowd management and prioritization. All enemies have certain weaknesses you can exploit (Blades can be killed with one Helm Breaker to the back). There are some more "advanced" techniques like shotgun hiking, shotgun twitching, twitch combo resetting, cancelling DT during DT moves to gain meter, etc, etc... but the combat isn't as free flowing as you're used to because it's the game that started it all.
DMC1 is fairly basic, but there are a ton of intricacies to it, such as enemy weaknesses and critical hits. DMC1 is dripping with atmosphere, even with a relatively muted story. It may help to keep in mind that DMC1 was supposed to be a Resident Evil title.
DMC1 isn't the strongest combat title. The combat is responsive, feels meaty, was very deliberately placed, and set the stage for more... but the structure is almost Zelda-esque, and the combat, while finely tuned, doesn't have the same level of variety that you're probably used to. However, every weapon and move has specific uses.
There is depth to the combat, it's just less pronounced and more subtle. Approaching enemy encounters involves crowd management and prioritization. All enemies have certain weaknesses you can exploit (Blades can be killed with one Helm Breaker to the back). There are some more "advanced" techniques like shotgun hiking, shotgun twitching, twitch combo resetting, cancelling DT during DT moves to gain meter, etc, etc... but the combat isn't as free flowing as you're used to because it's the game that started it all.
I think Nero has potential to grow as a character, but the best part on his end were his interactions with Dante I thought. I feel it might have been better if we had more background on him as well as Kyrie, though I suppose that's never really been a huge thing in DMC.
We've never gotten a clear picture on all that Sparda did after all and he's always been shrouded in mystery. A game starring him could be really cool, though perhaps maintaining the mystery would be better.
It was his depiction along with Vergil's that irritated me more than Dante in DmC. I actually blame some of it on that whole Nephilim twist on the story they put in, which always seemed a bad choice. Also seemed like one of the few ways they could justify Vergil being how he is in the game. I don't consider DMC Vergil all that heroic in any fashion, but he has a few lines which add some depth to him and his motivations for seeking power.
We've never gotten a clear picture on all that Sparda did after all and he's always been shrouded in mystery. A game starring him could be really cool, though perhaps maintaining the mystery would be better.
It was his depiction along with Vergil's that irritated me more than Dante in DmC. I actually blame some of it on that whole Nephilim twist on the story they put in, which always seemed a bad choice. Also seemed like one of the few ways they could justify Vergil being how he is in the game. I don't consider DMC Vergil all that heroic in any fashion, but he has a few lines which add some depth to him and his motivations for seeking power.
threelights
Member
DMC1 is the least character action of the series.
But not to say that's bad, it's pretty good actually.
Animations are pretty bad though (at least compared to 3 and 4).
But not to say that's bad, it's pretty good actually.
Animations are pretty bad though (at least compared to 3 and 4).
PensivePen
Member
I'm gonna throw my hat into the "DMC1 holds up" ring as well. Especially those boss battles. I actually like Nelo 3 more than Vergil 3 from a battle design perspective even if I think the latter more because of the story. The only thing unfortunate about DMC1 is the controls for the NA PS2 version, which are changed to the series standard in the HD collection (even if that version has a lot of subtle differences from the original).
After years of playing RE1-3 fixed cameras do not bother me in the slightest. I could see how it might be a problem for some people though. Saying DMC2 is better than anything is just total malarkey though.
After years of playing RE1-3 fixed cameras do not bother me in the slightest. I could see how it might be a problem for some people though. Saying DMC2 is better than anything is just total malarkey though.
This is objectively wrong, and voids any credibility you may have had. No Devil May Cry is worse than DMC2, and I include DmC when I say that.
It's not just the camera.
*The underwater section
*The limited repeated boss fights (Hope you enjoy facing the same bosses 3-4 times each)
*The dumb nightmare boss which was basically running around the map hitting the lights and waiting for the core to pop but when you moved to avoid its attack, the camera would fuck you over making you getting hit
*Final Boss was a starfox 64 like level
And I disliked the castle's level design.
At least in DMC 2 the camera,level design, and underwater section was improved. Sure, the helicopter boss fight was awful but it's not like the game made you fight it multiple times in a single playthrough.
Astral Dog
Member
No, you must be joking, even if DMC has aged, and it did, you cant say something like DMC 2 surpass it, the enemy design, combat system, boss battles, art direction, music, is still more enjoyable.
Am not sure about the last two, but im guessing they are, i did not play more than a few hours of DMC 2.
GamingMajic
Member
I second that.
I remember playing it when i was a kid and quite liked it. I played it again when the HD collection came out, I just couldnt see what i liked about it the first time. Its just bad.
I think it may be because i appreciated any game i managed to get my mum to buy back then, so i probably brainwashed myself into liking it.
All the magazine previews and trailers of the game got me super hype for it too.
I've played a shit ton of DMC2. The game is ass in every respect and it's bosses are an affront to action gaming.
this is not how to get people to take you seriously
BeautifulMemory
Member
DMC2 is so trashy it shouldn't even be considered a game. There's nothing in that game. No soul. No personality. No style. No passion. Just spam shoot.,
DMC1 is still godlike. Combat is simplistic but you need to make use of almost every single move and when you use DT. Every enemy encounter requires you to be calculating. This game is arguably the only game in the series that feels like Dante is trapped in a world filled of demons and you must fight your way out like the legendary demon hunter. You gotta be smart of knowing when to use melee and range weapons, and which type to use. The mix between horror and action still hasn't been replicated to this day. And every single battle against Vergil is breathtaking, especially the last encounter. This game is dated in the sense that it came out in 2001, the design approaches behind it are still impressive.
DMC1 is still godlike. Combat is simplistic but you need to make use of almost every single move and when you use DT. Every enemy encounter requires you to be calculating. This game is arguably the only game in the series that feels like Dante is trapped in a world filled of demons and you must fight your way out like the legendary demon hunter. You gotta be smart of knowing when to use melee and range weapons, and which type to use. The mix between horror and action still hasn't been replicated to this day. And every single battle against Vergil is breathtaking, especially the last encounter. This game is dated in the sense that it came out in 2001, the design approaches behind it are still impressive.
BeautifulMemory
Member
There are a lot of moves to play around with. And yellow orbs should never be a concern at a DMC game.
And the checkpoint system...it's not handholding like modern games and is actually pretty generous given that missions are not long in general. I'm not saying "get good" but that this is one of the games where you are rewarded for learning and being good at the game.
PensivePen
Member
I didn't see anything about it being mentioned here, but someone elsewhere pointed out that there are lighting differences between the Japanese trailer of the special edition and the existing version of the game.
Astral Dog
Member
I dont think we can say anything conclusive based on that clip,
Nero 's hair looks worse on next gen
.
I can go with this interpretation, some of Dante got to them, they must be dead inside, or insane.
Monocle
Member
What in the actual fuck.
PensivePen
Member
I imagine that's probably just youtube video artifacting. I was mainly referring to the shadow differences, which are clear enough to be less ambiguous. But you're right in that we should wait to see more.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
I think DMC1 is definitely a superior game than 3, and probably 4 as well. It has less.......player options, which a lot of people just refer to as "combat", but the way your abilities interact with enemies and their movesets (what I would refer to as combat) makes the game much more consistently interesting than the latter games. On top of that it has stronger pacing than 3 and especially 4.
The bosses are fantastic (in this subgenre, I will say I think only 3 has a better lineup of bosses). It's true that the bosses being repeated is a bit of a downer (although the way each one of them grows over the course of the game keeps things exciting), but when every one of those six bosses is absolutely excellent, that's really pretty irrelevant.
I'm always kind of baffled by people bringing up the swimming sections as though they affect the game at all. You spend like two minutes underwater over the entire course of the game (a bit more if you do the underwater secret mission), and the three times you have to fight underwater, you win just by looking at the nearest enemy and mashing triangle for four seconds. I won't say they're especially good and the game wouldn't be hurt if they were removed, but they have such an incredibly small impact on the game that it's bizarre to see people treat them like Bayonetta's vehicle segments. (On that note though, I do think that the Space Harrier-like fight with Mundus is actually very well designed. It's definitely bizarre to implement a genre shift like that for the final boss, but there are enough nuances to the fight to make it solid. And then the fight with him in the lava fight is excellent, so I don't see an issue.)
To say DMC2 is superior to DMC1 shows a total lack of taste. Very embarrassing.
The bosses are fantastic (in this subgenre, I will say I think only 3 has a better lineup of bosses). It's true that the bosses being repeated is a bit of a downer (although the way each one of them grows over the course of the game keeps things exciting), but when every one of those six bosses is absolutely excellent, that's really pretty irrelevant.
I'm always kind of baffled by people bringing up the swimming sections as though they affect the game at all. You spend like two minutes underwater over the entire course of the game (a bit more if you do the underwater secret mission), and the three times you have to fight underwater, you win just by looking at the nearest enemy and mashing triangle for four seconds. I won't say they're especially good and the game wouldn't be hurt if they were removed, but they have such an incredibly small impact on the game that it's bizarre to see people treat them like Bayonetta's vehicle segments. (On that note though, I do think that the Space Harrier-like fight with Mundus is actually very well designed. It's definitely bizarre to implement a genre shift like that for the final boss, but there are enough nuances to the fight to make it solid. And then the fight with him in the lava fight is excellent, so I don't see an issue.)
To say DMC2 is superior to DMC1 shows a total lack of taste. Very embarrassing.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Less bloom?