VendettaRed07
Member
People have explained it. You can chose to accept the logic or not. In the end black voters are the ones who get to decide who to vote for and the only ones it has to make sense to is them.
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Vermonts Black Leaders: We Were Invisible to Bernie Sanders
- Thread starter n00bsauce87
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People have explained it. You can chose to accept the logic or not. In the end black voters are the ones who get to decide who to vote for and the only ones it has to make sense to is them.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This just proves that Bernie is so color blind that he literally cant even see black people.
You're talking about a guy who said "Sandra Bland would be alive if she were a white woman." You're not going to get more explicit than that.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
However this should make it clear to himself and his supporters that racism is a problem far bigger than just financial equality.
ultratruman
Banned
No, he shouldn't.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Exactly, and listen it's good to talk about fiscal inequality. But in the context of discussing Black issues in America it's disingenuous to talk about that to the exclusion of other factors.
Have you even read the conversation in this thread?
soundscream
Member
?
The message didn't fly with his black constituents in Vermont, so he should continue with the same message while trying to gain black support on a national level..........
Yeah that's the ticket!
Edit: Did we just get a MLK quote in here, where did I put my bingo card?
Mammoth Jones
Member
That's that condescending "I know what's best for you, shut up" shit...
I'm telling you.....
Gotdatmoney
Member
If he wants to win over black voters he probably should take steps towards it yes. The default vote is going to Hillary. Its on him to bring people to his corner. Not for the people to magically open their eyes and see him ss the saviour.
You mean despite a LONG history talking about minority issues and racism?
MikeBreezy92
Member
Its less about Hillary and more about being critical of Bernie. Hilary doesn't do anything better tbh but that's kinda the point. Neither candidate has really come out in force about the injustices of POCs in America. They are either silent or have bad history with POC (Hillary) or using a single idea to compensate(Sanders)
This is simply a criticism of Bernie, has nothing to do with Hillary tbh.
Crimson_Gold
Member
The constituency in Vermont never had a chance to get to know Bernie and what he's about. Same issue you see on a national level. /s
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yup. I get that inequality is his focus. Its a good focus to have. But we're at a point where literally being asked on a debate stage about racial issues turns into a conversation on Wall Street
VendettaRed07
Member
He should if winning the primary is something he is interested in.
jackissocool
Member
Its origins really go back to the Bacon Rebellion, and back then it was a means to keep the lower class divided. Clearly the origins of racism are purely a matter of class - the current best of racism has grown beyond that but is still very strongly rooted in it.
Of course it is. But the whole "would that end racism" business is a silly distraction that does little more than marginalize other, legitimate issues. Like, seriously, what is going to end racism? I don't know that I've seen any serious, actionable policy proposals from anyone that would actually do anything about deep-seated racism. How can one "end" racism?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
No one's suggesting that's possible.
I think you're seeing people ask what a person can do about it and taking it all the way into talk about ending it.
Or as if that is the only options Bernie has, either only talk about income equality or solve racism, when it comes to talking to AA.
Gotdatmoney
Member
No one has asked Bernie to end racism. But if your platform about how you are the best candidate for black voters is economics and they see it differently then why wouldn't you listen to their voice? Like, there are tons of systemic issues that candidates could propose policy on.
boiled goose
good with gravy
To say that Bernie is somehow worse than other politicians is disingenuous.
To say he runs from racial inequality issues is also unfair. Dude was arrested protesting this shit
To say that maybe as a Senator he should have reached out more might be fair. Sure.
To say he runs from racial inequality issues is also unfair. Dude was arrested protesting this shit
To say that maybe as a Senator he should have reached out more might be fair. Sure.
That apparently didn't translate into anything for Vermont.
Again I don't think it's that interesting for politics to just be about "talking about things".
Well, I took the "is that going to end racism" quote from Hillary. I have a hard time viewing this conversation outside of the context of an election in which we're choosing between two candidates.
I suppose I don't agree with the narrative that he's ignoring these issues. Has he made combating racism the main issue in his campaign? No. Nobody has. Has he spoken on it? Has he made policy proposals regarding these issues? Yes, I believe so.
Segregation was everywhere just in the south it was written down. Most of everywhere else it was implied. Up north you still have a lot of segregation in neighborhoods to this day.
soundscream
Member
Lets just put this into play before anyone else gets some ideas.
Gotta love how the reply to "Sanders action in Vermont don't paint him as a supporter to black people's plight" is "But he walked with MLK!"
My mistake, I misread.
I'm talking about Hilary, not Bernie.
Maybe not running but we just had a debate where he turned every race question into a rant about billionaires and wall street. At best he needs to develop some nuance
Crimson_Gold
Member
Apparently that one arrest is enough to overcome any criticism he'll ever face. Must have been a damn good arrest
Abinash117
Member
She has been campaigning for minority support since around her announcement. If just talking about 2016 elections.
adamsappel
Member
Bernie just seems deaf to anyone that doesn't jump aboard his income-inequality-solves-everything train. Other politicians have said he doesn't work well with them on other issues, and it looks like it extends to everyone.
I don't understand the math here. Typo?
Does Vermont incarcerate a higher percentage of its black population than other states? I wonder if that is a systemic racism issue (blacks are convicted in situations where whites are not; blacks are falsely accused at a higher rate; etc.) or if the minority population is so low that crimes committed by them are more easily solved. Is the black population spread across the state or concentrated?
I don't understand the math here. Typo?
Does Vermont incarcerate a higher percentage of its black population than other states? I wonder if that is a systemic racism issue (blacks are convicted in situations where whites are not; blacks are falsely accused at a higher rate; etc.) or if the minority population is so low that crimes committed by them are more easily solved. Is the black population spread across the state or concentrated?
dave is ok
aztek is ok
I love how people don't even need to mention MLK for you to shitpost over people mentioning it anymore
No typo. Slayven was saying there was twice as many black people in Vermont prisons than there are living in Vermont which is ridiculously false.
Vermont has a lot of black prisoners by percentage because it has a small number of prisoners, period. From 2007:
VendettaRed07
Member
"Seriously, whats going to fix the issues that you care about? It isn't possible. Sorry. You shouldn't even hope for it. Its a waste of time.
Now please vote for the candidate that will magically fix all of the problems i care about and talks about all the issues that are relevant to my interests. Ok?"
Can't figure out why black voters haven't flocked to Bernie. I mean, how do you turn an offer like this down.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Bernie's just using the same methods as anarchist crust punks. Get arrested once, become invulnerable to criticism about your inaction at all other times.
To convince me he cares, all it would take is something like "you guys are right, I haven't been doing enough. Here's a team I put together. We're listening now" and then actually listen and propose some new ideas based on that. It's not much, but it's something. I like self-awareness in politics.
soundscream
Member
Post #56 & 71
Lets just put this into play before anyone else gets some ideas.
You were actually too late.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Real talk. I mean I don't doubt his previous efforts. But the question to me is: what this dude actual policies that he'd implement to really make substantial headway into the problems facing Blacks in America.
His fallback to his main campaign theme doesnt resonate with me
Lol. Taking a lot of liberties there, per usual. Black voters can, obviously, vote for whomever they choose.
What kind of reductionist bullshit is this?
Beautiful.
Lets just put this into play before anyone else gets some ideas.
vicissitudes
Banned
In most of his speeches I've watched, he consistently brings up:
- Mass incarceration rates in the US, disproportionately black and latino. Blacks getting arrested for mild crimes such as marijuana possession. Advocates legalizing marijuana and reducing incarceration rates.
- Black people getting shot by cops, and the need to hold the police accountable. Also advocates bringing more diversity into the police force, and disarming the police.
- High unemployment rates among black youths, something like 51%. Advocates getting them jobs through infrastructure spending, and education through free college.
Although I haven't watched as many of Hillary's speeches, I almost never hear any of these issues addressed. Mostly just some passing lip service about "she will fight for equal opportunity for all people" and "body cameras."
Look, no president, not Bernie, not Hillary, can solve the racism in this country. It's ultimately up to each American to fight against the racist attitudes that pervades many citizens. When a black person is stared at in a store by others for fear of shoplifting, there's no president who can do anything about that. But, when looking at things a president could get accomplished to help fight against systemic racism, I don't see how Hillary comes out way ahead of Bernie on the issues.
all I'm saying is that racism and segregation were used strategically as a means of keeping people divided to the benefit of the wealthy who exploited them
Now, I feel like this is the point where people would point to his surrogates, campaign hires, additions to his criminal justice platform, etc... Then they'd get called out for whitesplaining and the cycle continues...
benicillin
Banned
Because of the small population of Vermont's prisons and the small population of blacks in VT all the statistics look worse than they are, but VT has a lot of the same problems most other places have in terms of racial bias. Blacks are more likely to get pulled over, to be asked to search their vehicle, to get arrested for something that a white person might not, etc, even worse because they stand out a lot more in what is otherwise a very homogenous state.
A lot of it is drug crimes, which is why the Vermont prison population has gone up a lot in the last couple years (stricter enforcement) and there would be many more white people in prison if they were pulled over, searched, etc at the same rates as black people.
Vermont is a great state but it's subject to the same problems that exist across America.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Didnt you know? We are all poor.
Yes racism is booming business, but it not some cabal doing it all
Most definitely his blind spot and disappointing. I think BLM did a lot of good to force him to confront his own problems.
Bernie's a good example of what often happens with white leftists in the US, in that they have good intentions but lack experience or knowledge about things outside of their own purview and sometimes get the blinders on so tightly that they just ignore stuff that doesn't apply to the theories they've already developed. It's why intersectionality is so important.
Bernie's a good example of what often happens with white leftists in the US, in that they have good intentions but lack experience or knowledge about things outside of their own purview and sometimes get the blinders on so tightly that they just ignore stuff that doesn't apply to the theories they've already developed. It's why intersectionality is so important.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It's the listening part that I think most people just do not get. Everyone says they're a good listener when asked. Self-awareness is key.
The problems Bernie has are in terms of rhetoric. Policy wise, he has a better record than Hilary and even several members of the Congressional Black Caucus. But early on, he gave way too many economic answers to questions on social issues, and the result was a perception that he just didn't care about the plight of black people, and this perception has become a monster that is out of his control now.
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