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[Cyborg]

BC is not relevant for me.
I never play old games when something new comes out

 

[Striek]

no, the way ps4 is going to be always online

I don't see the difference.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Hmm...actually, I may have been getting a bit carried away about this probably working with existing 360s, if it works over the network.

That would require video encoding and streaming etc. - and might not be possible on vanilla 360s unless they can squeeze the necessary into the existing OS footprint. That might not be possible. It's possible the new mini 360 has hardware to handle this if existing 360s AV hardware cannot manage it on its own.

Hmm. We'll see.

Wake-on-lan should be possible with 360 as it is... (it was possible on PS3?) ... the alternate OS mode for communicating with Durango would be a software/firmware issue only. However the above stuff around video encoding etc. might raise problems that only new hardware can solve, if the solution works over the network. If it works via some other HDMI-in or AV signal management trickery, it may be possible with some 360s but not all. And I think the HDMI-in will be reserved for other devices.

Apple TV part:

A FCC ruling in 2010 mandates that after June 2 2014 all cable companies must provide a gateway device for the home that allows HD streaming to consumer devices (other countries are following this). Every display device be it TV, Computer, Phone, Tablet will need either built in or provided by a set top box, the extended DLNA rendering RVU via home network. The Xbox 720, PS4, and Xbox 360/ARM will have this TV ability built in using ARM low power components.

The current version of the PS3 can support RVU but with power requirements that exceed what will be allowed in California and some countries. There is a cite for a 22nm Cell that likely is going to be married to ARM components and will mirror the Xbox 360/ARM feature set.

The new set of FCC rules (from 2010), set to be made mandatory by June 2, 2014, also clarifies what capabilities are expected of the HD streams:

recordable high-definition video => DVR ability in both "always on" consoles without a TV tuner needed using RVU.
closed captioning data
service discovery
video transport
remote control command pass-through

DLNA Premium Video Profile, an HD-compliant version of the secure-streaming standard set to be ratified in 2013, was suggested as one possible option for cable companies.

Xbox 360/ARM as RVU renderer and Xbox 360 Gaikai like local server

Now with every home having a network with every device having RVU/ video display, hardware sharing resources becomes practical.

The likely scenario is a Xbox 360/ARM in another room attached to a different TV providing RVU ability and through the home network Xbox 360 emulation to the Xbox 720 and the 720 would be providing 720 emulation to the Xbox 360/ARM Gaiki like.

Sony has a patent from 2010 to do this for PS3 emulation to the PS4. It's just missing local display ability/RVU and HDMI:

There is a need for a large Hard disk on the network, a blu-ray/DVD drive on the network, a Cable company Gateway device, DLNA server, DVR... All CE devices can share resources and the next step might be sharing CPU resources with a Game console being the most powerful CE platform in the home.

I've read of a use case where a Blu-ray player can wake on Lan and RVU serve playing a Blu-ray disk to a RVU enabled TV in another room.

 

[keit4]

I don't view this as positive news, frankly. I guess a BC add on is good for people that want BC, but it's also going to inflate the initial price of the console. Also, if this thing is on par with the PS4 in terms of price I'd have no idea why anyone would not choose the PS4. It would bury the Durango worldwide from the get go.

Inflate the initial cost? It's an add-on. You are not forced to buy it.

I think Durango will be cheaper than the PS4 without the BC module, something like this:

Durango ~ $350-$400
Durango + Xbox mini ~ $500
PS4 ~ $400-$450

 

[Sounddeli]

Inflate the initial cost? It's a standalone product. You are not forced to buy it.

I think Durango will be cheaper than the PS4 without the BC module, something like this:

Durango ~ $350-$400
Durango + Xbox mini ~ $500
PS4 ~ $400-$450

correction

 

[Maxwell House]

I actually kind of like the idea of connecting an X360 to the Durango for BC. Now, imagine if Microsoft decided to not only use the Durango for passing off the image to the display, but also did some kind of post-processing to the X360 game visuals? I'm talking about antyaliasing injectors and things like that. Imagine playing those jagged 720p titles with better AA.

I'd be surprised if Durango doesn't do post-processing on 360 titles when using this setup. I am guessing that when we play 360 titles on the Durango plus mini setup that the games are going to look much better due to this.

 

[Alx]

this is the dumbest thing ever. If the new xbox only needs to be online to play online stuff, it means all the 'always on' stuff is nonsense.

It's still true for the mini if it has to stay connected to validate games on demand, like the current 360 does.

So why did MS leave that to stew and create bad word of mouth for so long? It would have been a trivial thing to correct via leaks/anonymous comments.

Where do you think those leaks are coming from ?
The rumors have been running for some time, but things got wild only recently, with the twitter thing and the story reaching non specialized press. I suppose it requires some time to prepare a controlled leak in reaction to such a situation, but everything considered, it didn't take too long.

 

[Phonomezer]

I'd be surprised if Durango doesn't do post-processing on 360 titles when using this setup. I am guessing that when we play 360 titles on the Durango plus mini setup that the games are going to look much better due to this.

I would be impressed if that were the case. I'd also be more inclined to revisit some older 360 games like Alan Wake.

 

[Taker666]

Inflate the initial cost? It's an add-on. You are not forced to buy it.

I think Durango will be cheaper than the PS4 without the BC module, something like this:

Durango ~ $350-$400
Durango + Xbox mini ~ $500
PS4 ~ $400-$450

Unless you want to play games online for the generation of course..in which case-

PS4 ~ $400-$450
Durango ~ $700 -$750
Durango + Xbox mini ~ $850

 

[Sounddeli]

There were rumors of forward-compatibility, stating that 360 games on the 720 would have improved draw distance, higher frame rates and faster speed, together with taking advantage of new controller functionality and other hardware developments.

 

[Poona]

If this is true, I will start to slowly and carefully back off from my anti-Durango stance. But I'm ready to get mad again at the drop of a hat!

More seriously, who the hell is going to buy the Xbox Mini? Does Apple TV even sell well?

I'm buying it just for the bc alone. If it provides other things, then bonus.

 

[Satchel]

I'd be surprised if Durango doesn't do post-processing on 360 titles when using this setup. I am guessing that when we play 360 titles on the Durango plus mini setup that the games are going to look much better due to this.

Fuck me I hope so. Would give my entire 360 collection a new lease of life.

 

[gofreak]

Apple TV part:

A FCC ruling in 2010 mandates that after June 2 2014 all cable companies must provide a gateway device for the home that allows HD streaming to consumer devices (other countries are following this). Every display device be it TV, Computer, Phone, Tablet will need either built in or provided by a set top box, the extended DLNA rendering RVU via home network. The Xbox 720, PS4, and Xbox 360/ARM will have this TV ability built in using ARM low power components.

The current version of the PS3 can support RVU but with power requirements that exceed what will be allowed in California and some countries. There is a cite for a 22nm Cell that likely is going to be married to ARM components and will mirror the Xbox 360/ARM feature set.

Xbox 360/ARM as RVU renderer and Xbox 360 Gaikai like local server

Now with every home having a network with every device having RVU/ video display, hardware sharing resources becomes practical.

The likely scenario is a Xbox 360/ARM in another room attached to a different TV providing RVU ability and through the home network Xbox 360 emulation to the Xbox 720 and the 720 would be providing 720 emulation to the Xbox 360/ARM Gaiki like.

Sony has a patent from 2010 to do this for PS3 emulation to the PS4. It's just missing local display ability/RVU and HDMI:

There is a need for a large Hard disk on the network, a blu-ray/DVD drive on the network, a Cable company Gateway device, DLNA server, DVR... All CE devices can share resources and the next step might be sharing CPU resources with a Game console being the most powerful CE platform in the home.

I've read of a use case where a Blu-ray player can wake on Lan and RVU serve playing a Blu-ray disk to a RVU enabled TV in another room.

Not sure what your point is wrt what I was saying. Mandates about systems being able to stream video wouldn't or cannot necessarily apply to systems that weren't built to do this.

Per the VGLeaks article, anyway, this will only work with the new 360. And I'd guess that's at least partially because some or all existing 360's don't have the requisite streaming resources, at least if it was going to be done over the network. The new 360 will obviously have whatever interface is necessary to do this, though it sounds like it'll be happening through a proprietary interface rather than over the network.

 

[Reiko]

I'd be surprised if Durango doesn't do post-processing on 360 titles when using this setup. I am guessing that when we play 360 titles on the Durango plus mini setup that the games are going to look much better due to this.

DO EET Microsoft.

 

[Sounddeli]

Forward Compatibility????

The third Xbox installment will be "Forward Compatible" which will provide graphical and performance updates to Xbox 360 titles. This ranges from increased draw distance, improved framerate, or perhaps even new DLC. This would be the equivalent of upgrading your PC video card to allow for higher graphical settings. This, of course, will only apply to games still in development for the 360.

http://kotaku.com/5063787/rumor-next...ard-compatible

 

[rouken]

There were rumors of forward-compatibility, stating that 360 games on the 720 would have improved draw distance, higher frame rates and faster speed, together with taking advantage of new controller functionality and other hardware developments.

this would be so awesome if true. it will definitely be an advantage versus those who are questioning why the add on exist in the first place when they can play their current 360.

 

[Phonomezer]

Forward Compatibility????



http://kotaku.com/5063787/rumor-next...ard-compatible

New thread tbh

 

[Reiko]

New thread tbh

Old article, I think.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I can see improved fps happening, the rest, not so much. That would basically mean it wouldn't be emulated or a simple hardware solution, it would be a reworked per-title base.

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

Forward Compatibility????



http://kotaku.com/5063787/rumor-next...ard-compatible

Maybe GTA V would do this? (If true.)

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

Sony has to offer a similar design now then if true. Excellent Idea really. I will be much more inclined to buy!

If its true about making 360 games look better OMG Megaton!

 

[Satchel]

Oh man, in just one day of rumours this console has gone from "Yeah, I'll eventually get it" to "FUCK ME GIVE IT TO ME NAO!"

 

[Reiko]

I can see improved fps happening, the rest, not so much. That would basically mean it wouldn't be emulated and it would be on a per-title base.

Gears of War in 60fps? That would be too much for some to handle.

 

[Phonomezer]

Gears of War in 60fps? That would be too much for some to handle.

60 fps console Dark Souls... give it to meee

 

[dragonelite]

Oh man, in just one day of rumours this console has gone from "Yeah, I'll eventually get it" to "FUCK ME GIVE IT TO ME NAO!"

All you have to do is say the right words and not the wrong words.
Gonna keep my avatar until Microsoft event is done and said all those things themselves before reverting.

 

[Alx]

It's not clear how close the connection between the mini and Durango is. If Durango only does post-processing of the video stream, then it won't allow bigger drawing distances or higher framerates (except with motion interpolation).
I suppose that for ingame upgrades, you would need both consoles to share some memory and process, which sounds complicated.

 

[Phonomezer]

It's not clear how close the connection between the mini and Durango is. If Durango only does post-processing of the video stream, then it won't allow bigger drawing distances or higher framerates (except with motion interpolation).
I suppose that for ingame upgrades, you would need both consoles to share some memory and process, which sounds complicated.

Maybe the new 360 is the one with 8GB DDR3

lol

 

[Reiko]

60 fps console Dark Souls... give it to meee

I hope this happens.

 

[Router]

Well, this could explain how the leaks have been all over the place lately. Interesting that its been a long time since any mention of the set-top box though. Probably what... September 2012?

 

[Striek]

Forward Compatibility????

I was like what ze fuck!!?!

But then...

...2008 article.

I don't even know how this is possible except if programmed for on a per title basis anyway. Which obviously they weren't doing in 2008 and would be well known by now.

 

[TheKayle]

this would explain a lots of wrong rumors IMHO

(hey i know this is my first post so ..HI GUYS and sorry for my poor english)

anyway this xbox mini is taking us back again on the two sku rumors right?

 

[Reiko]

this would explain a lots of wrong rumors IMHO

(hey i know this is my first post so ..HI GUYS and sorry for my poor english)

anyway this xbox mini is taking us back again on the two sku rumors right?

This correlates with the 2 sku rumor from Thurott

 

[Dunlop]

Unless you want to play games online for the generation of course..in which case-

PS4 ~ $400-$450
Durango ~ $700 -$750
Durango + Xbox mini ~ $850

It's cute that you think Sony will not be charging for online this gen. They are bleeding for money atm and can see the Billion(s) MS have made off of LIVE.

I don't think either will charge for MP but the rest will be paywalls

 

[derFeef]

It's shaping into something good? Somehow weird...

 

[Sounddeli]

Remember the 56 pgs of leaked doc?


- XBOX 360 "limitations".

It cites Xbox 360′s limitations as “no full fidelity AAA Games + Kinect V1 sensor,” no support for a full range of XTV platform scenarios, lacking modern entertainment capabilities (“Blu-ray, Native 3D,” and “2x1080p in/out&#8221, and the inability to run “multiplexed or concurrent applications and services.”

- XBOX 720 "specs".

The document says the XBOX 360 successor will boast six times the performance of Xbox 360, have a “native XTV/video STB,” “V1/V2 Kinect sensor processing,” “connectivity for glassses/sensors/peripherals,” “dedicated resources for next gen gaming,” “dedicated resources for Xbox 360 gaming,” and “true 1080p and full 3D.”

 

[hgarrett54]

Yeah, I thought they'd do something like this. "Always online" doesn't necessarily mean it will lock offline play.

 

[dragonelite]

This correlates with the 2 sku rumor from Thurott

But where is my dual apu mang?
Can't a man dream about his ducktaped dual apu.

 

[Phonomezer]

Is it possible for the 360 to get an internal redesign as well? Perhaps that's why Microsoft were rumoured to be working with IBM again on their "next console".

Sorry if wrong, I stopped following the Durango speculation threads due to the amount of bullshit in them.

 

[mrklaw]

I wonder if this would work in reverse? If the mini 360 is streaming 360 games to durango, couldn't the durango stream durango games to the mini 360?

So you can play durango games on any TV in the house that has a mini 360 hooked up to it? That'd be more compelling to me than weird BC support.



edit: how would it make 360 games look better? You already have latency from video encoding, you want to add more by post-processing compressed video? urgh. All the game playback is happening on what is likely to be a vanilla 360 chipset with dedicated video encoding hardware support

 

[Nemesis121]

2 days ago everyone thought Nextbox was horrible, now all of a sudden i am willing to buy it, people need to stop believing all these fucking rumors and wait for MS to officially unveil their system...

 

[Sounddeli]

But where is my dual apu mang?
Can't a man dream about his ducktaped dual apu.

I still suspect Dual APU's in the 720, by the xTV being a standalone device and the 720 being able to essentially do the same thing as the xTV device.

 

[abracadaver]

Could the xbox mini be as small as a wii ? Or even like apple tv if it doesnt include a dvd drive ?

 

[TheKayle]

now i ask
is impossible to get for that price (vgleaks talk around 149$) a 1.2tf mini xbox scenario
seeing that there isnt dvd and other stuff could be possible?

i mean and if all the leaks get confused by this two skus?

 

[Mogwai]

Could the xbox mini be as small as a wii ? Or even like apple tv if it doesnt include a dvd drive ?

I don't see why not. The disc drive in the Wii makes up for a huge part of its total size.

 

[Shaneus]

But what about all those people who said they wouldn't forgive MS for not confirming the always online rumours, regardless of whether they're true or not? Are they still bitter? I must know!

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

now i ask
is impossible to get for that price (vgleaks talk around 149$) a 1.2tf mini xbox scenario
seeing that there isnt dvd and other stuff could be possible?

i mean and if all the leaks get confused by this two skus?

No, it would be a waste of money since the mini unit seems to be primarily aimed at people who want a lot of the media functionality, but are not interested in paying the premium for next gen gaming capabilities.

 

[Reiko]

But what about all those people who said they wouldn't forgive MS for not confirming the always online rumours, regardless of whether they're true or not? Are they still bitter? I must know!

Offline gaming and PGR5 will make everything better

 

[Shaneus]

Sony's plan is BC via Gaikai.

Always online BC for PS4? God, Sony are DICKS.

Offline gaming and PGR5 will make everything better

Your jib. I like the cut of it.

 

[keit4]

Always online BC for PS4? God, Sony are DICKS.

Yeah, let's burn the internet.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Not sure what your point is wrt what I was saying. Mandates about systems being able to stream video wouldn't or cannot necessarily apply to systems that weren't built to do this.

Per the VGLeaks article, anyway, this will only work with the new 360. And I'd guess that's at least partially because some or all existing 360's don't have the requisite streaming resources, at least if it was going to be done over the network. The new 360 will obviously have whatever interface is necessary to do this, though it sounds like it'll be happening through a proprietary interface rather than over the network.

Yeah, a Xbox 360 or even a PS3 with games that are using 100% of the resources can't support this. The PS3 comes closer with SPUs able to convert frame buffer video to h.264 while the Xbox 360 I think would use the GPU to do this. Anyway this is h.264 over the home network and includes wifi as most homes will default to that. The Xbox360/ARM can likely support Gaikai like streaming to any RVU enabled device that has all the latest W3C browser recommendations which includes standards for Game controllers, same for PS4, Durango.

Resource sharing and standards open up other opportunities.

A use case might be putting the Xbox 360 disk in a new Sony Blu-ray player with ARM/trustzone support with a app installed that recognizes the Xbox 360 disk and using Trustzone confirms the encryption. It looks for the Xbox 360/ARM on the network and from that point a slightly more complicated APP + RVU scenario allows the Sony blu-ray player to display the game on the local HDMI/TV. Same for PS3/ARM with Sony Blu-ray player or same with a Android handheld as the display but Blu-ray player playing the disk and PS3/ARM or Xbox 360/ARM doing the game processing. With standards and everyone using a home network the only fence is a Ecosystem walled garden. The domain registration sony-microsoft.com might indicate both Microsoft and Sony have decided to lower the walls for each other.

With minor changes to the LAN adaptor hardware, the new Xbox 360 may support HSA distributed processing. This is not necessary for straight Xbox 360 Gaikai like serving. The new Xbox 360/ARM hardware will support 1080P and S3D so it's likely that downloadable games might have options for this and more in the future.

Microsoft is investing in TV in a big way with its next Xbox console as part of a fight for the living room. Multiple sources familiar with the company's Xbox plans have revealed to The Verge that Microsoft will introduce a feature that lets its next-generation console take over a TV and set-top box in a similar way to Google TV. We understand that the next Xbox will require an online connection to use the entertainment services, allowing them to be always-on for streaming and access to TV signals.

"Very similar to Google TV, but with Xbox gaming"

The functionality will work by taking a cable box signal and passing it through to the Xbox via HDMI, allowing Microsoft's console to overlay a UI and features on top of an existing TV channel or set-top box. We're told that this is a key part of the next-generation Xbox and that it will go a step further than Google's TV implementation thanks to Microsoft's partnerships with content providers. Extended support for various cable services will be rolled out gradually, but the basic functionality will be available at launch.

Coupled with this TV functionality, Microsoft's next-generation Kinect sensor will also play a role in the company's TV focus. The Verge has learned that the next Kinect will detect multiple people simultaneously, including the ability to detect eye movement to pause content when a viewer turns their head away from a TV. Microsoft is said to be using these capabilities as part of its UI and features for its TV plans.