JosephManderley
Member
I think there is a chance they may not launch PS4 until late 2014. Infact I'd say that is pretty likely given their new targets and how expensive console launches are.
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VG24/7: Sony doubles down on games, confirms 10,000 lay-offs
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MightyHedgehog
Member
Even putting everything they have on their DD channels wouldn't give them a huge boost like that. PSN in the next Playstation is probably going to be very slim for free stuff compared to the future PSN+, as that's the major subscription driver they'll want to put their energy into promoting, given success and still-growing subscription base for XBL Gold. Otherwise, how is a greater focus on subscription revenue going to happen in a meaningful way to contribute to that goal? They already offer video and music services, so I guess I'm missing what they could possibly do. In any case, with Vita lying there dead, flopping around for air, Sony's going to have to spend a lot more money while getting nothing back for years if they want to avoid a pure, multi-billion dollar loss with the platform. The fourth PS will be very powerful, but not costly, like PS3...so, I expect that it will be still close to the next XBOX in terms of capability. The services (and exclusives) are the main differentiators right now and definitely for the next-gen. Sony would do well to try and fully unify their network across all platforms by sharing more than music and video options, but also their games. It's the only way to shave the cost and risk for so many platforms needing so much unique, exclusive content.
I don't think so. They need to launch head-to-head with MS or face increasing irrelevancy among new buyers for the next-gen. They need to suck up whatever they need to ensure it's release window does not give MS too much of an advantage, which is large and more difficult to overcome as subscriptions will only help retain and grow their base with less reasons to pay another platform holder for their content and services as they get increasingly more for their Gold membership. MS isn't going to start at zero when they're going to try and carry every XBL member forward to the next platform, guaranteed. Sony needs to get their current sub base going to the next platform sooner than later...which means that PS3 will be mostly abandoned for the fourth PS as they need to focus their first party stuff there, I think.
Nice to see Sony's in gaming for the long haul.
I agree about the mobile division, it seems the riskiest of the lot. At least I hope it doesn't include their notebooks/tablets; such a waste.
Doesn't sound like they've totally stopped TVs, but at least they've cut it considerably.
Well, it's dangerous either way. PSX and PS2 were the weakest of their generations, and also the most successful.
I agree about the mobile division, it seems the riskiest of the lot. At least I hope it doesn't include their notebooks/tablets; such a waste.
Doesn't sound like they've totally stopped TVs, but at least they've cut it considerably.
Well, it's dangerous either way. PSX and PS2 were the weakest of their generations, and also the most successful.
FY14 = April 2014 - March 2015, so that period ranges from 5-6 months after PS4's release. With a cut-price PS3, PS3 software should still be a decent profit driver at that point.
The Vita business is likely to be profitable then - it is now? - the question is if it will be a substantial one or not.
And the PS4 business may well be profitable overall, or reach profitability, during that period, even if hardware is losing a little bit...but I still would challenge why this implies an underspecced PS4.
have you seen the new Sony Xperia line? it's very good for the price
Lagspike_exe
Member
The only way to be sure that they will be profitable with the PS4 launch is to break even on hardware day 1. I believe they'll try a Dual SKU similar to Vita approach, where the cheaper $399 will slightly lose money while the $499 SKU will be a decent profit maker. I'd be really interested in seeing Vita numbers and what sort of net result they achieved with this strategy. If they are breaking even on hardware right now they'll probably do great over the course of the entire life cycle, despite relatively low numbers during the launch period.
I have no doubt they'll try to monetize the living hell out of PSN. But hardware sales for the PS4 will make up a huge chunk of their revenue. Even at break-even, that means the margin on the remaining revenue has to be that much higher to arrive at an 8% total including the hardware revenue. There's just no way to reach that margin on a PS4 that's losing money. Even with a break-even PS4, they would probably need to be selling Nintendo-like levels of 1st-party software to reach a margin like that with such a huge chunk of revenue not producing any returns at all.
Compared to Sampsung Phones and Iphone, it's crap.
They need to copy Iphone as simple as that. Give me Vita phone and I will get it day one
bigtroyjon
Member
Because we aren't simply talking about them being profitable, we are talking about a profit margin that will be higher than every year except 1 in the the dominating PS2 era. And Sony lost a big chunk of cash in the first year the PS2 hit the market, despite the PS1 and PS2 both selling well.
That early on in a console life cycle, revenue will be highly concentrated in hardware so they will need to be making a decent amount of money on hardware in order to achieve that kind of margin.
Beat me to it.
They are also way behind. Samsung and LG are going quad-core, Sony just went to dual-core with a S-LCD screen while the others have AMOLED and IPS screens for ages. Should've skipped dual-core if it was gonna take them that long to release one and go straight with a Vita specced phone or at least something similar.
shinra-bansho
Member
Based on that graph, game looks to generate ~35B yen in operating income in fiscal 11; despite PS3 price reduction and PSV launch.
except you really don't need quad-core and it is an quite a batter drainer. Sure ICS was the first android to take advantage of mutli-cores so there was no need to release dual core phones last year. Sure Snapdragon S4 dualcore seems to match the performance of Tegra 3 (Sony has already stated they will use the S4 chip in their next flagship to be released during the autumn).
Further, thanks to the CPU they're using their phones are cheaper than the competition. Never mind the fact that they still manage to offer smooth experience thanks to the software optimization and also able to bring ICS to all their 2011 phones as opposed to, say, Samsung.
Also you've got a lot of innovation with WhiteMagic or Floating Touch technologies and an iconic design that differentiates itself from the iPhone wannabes (though i would have been happier had they stuck with the curve design of the 2011 line).
Lastly, if their roadmap is to be believed they will launch a phone for 160 euros this summer. That could work wonders for them.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Magic!
TBH this is just a generic statement. Basically it means nothing and reading anything into it (gaming wise) is just guessing.
Sony will reduce TV portfolio by 40 percent in 2012, look to commercialize OLED and Crystal LED TVs
How do you fix a problem like Sony's chronically ailing TV business? New company CEO Kaz Hirai reckons the answer lies in streamlining the number of products offered, by a full 40 percent during the fiscal 2012, and focusing on the development and introduction of new high-end displays such as OLED and Crystal LED. We loved our first sighting of Sony's Crystal LED prototype at CES in January this year, so Kaz's vision definitely strikes the right note with us. Additionally, the company's Bravia brand retains a cachet of high quality among TV buyers, so moving the entire portfolio up in the price and quality range seems like an entirely feasible goal for Sony to pursue.
In hard financial terms, Sony will look to reduce the fixed costs of its TV production arm by 60 percent by 2013, with a view to returning to profitability for the first time in nearly a decade during that fiscal year. Operational costs should also drop by 30 percent if all goes to plan. Other ways in which Sony promises to enhance its Bravia TV range include better audio and better integration with the company's mobile products, both of which have a lot of promise, but aren't as concrete as the pledge to keep driving toward turning OLED and Crystal LED TVs into a retail reality. Kaz is cautious, and notes that LCD is still by the far the biggest and most important market, but you've got to be excited to see this grand Japanese company advancing into higher-tech displays.
http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/12/2943081/sony-tv-roadmap-2012-oled-crystal-led
I can't express how much I hate my Galaxy S.
This is the worst product I have ever owned. I regret buying it every signle day, and eagerly await for a chance to replace it.
I don't know about the next Galaxy phones, but Galaxy S was definitely overhyped just because it was seen as the first true "Iphone Killer".
This is the worst product I have ever owned. I regret buying it every signle day, and eagerly await for a chance to replace it.
I don't know about the next Galaxy phones, but Galaxy S was definitely overhyped just because it was seen as the first true "Iphone Killer".
if vita makes profit on every system then its great....
sales will also pick up later,especially in japan when the psp dies
shinra-bansho
Member
Hmm, sounds like a good approach short of abandoning TV altogether. Still not convinced consumers will bite with OLED and cled.
All the things you mentioned here are a foreign language to Joe Consumer. The Xperia S is specced well behind a bunch of current phones, but is still doing good because most people who buy phones don't care. The people who care about specs are the 1%.
Himynameischris
Member
I just browsed through the Sony mobile site and they have some really cool stuff, like that smart watch and NFC chips. I loved that wireless headset that hooks up to your phone, I guess prices aren't out but if I end up getting a sony phone I would totally check out some of that stuff.
True, Joe Consumer will probably get the Galaxy S2/S3 or iPhone 4S anyway. But I care, so they lost a potential customer. How "good" is it doing? It isn't even released in the US and in the UK Vodafone will not offer it. Their mobile phone sales has been dropping like a rock since 2007. And their market share has shrunk to 1.8% last year. Hmm....I guess Joe Consumer cares after all and the people who do not care are in the 1(.8)%. Hope Kaz will turn things around, because their mobile division doesn't look good atm.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
aha,ps4 will be "important" then.....
Key initiatives to transform the electronics business are:
1. Strengthening core businesses (Digital Imaging, Game, Mobile)
2. Turning around the television business
time will tell...
Infinite Justice
Member
as said before Godspeed Kaz, Godspeed.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Oh dear.
Phonomezer
Banned
This doesn't really inspire much confidence.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Good thing that Sony are releasing an AMOLED phone with screens from their partnership with AOU bearing fruit. Also let's remember that Japan Display Inc. (in which Sony have a 10% stake) will turn on their OLED production in Q1 2013. Technical details about the screens are unknown.
Also they are said to be using Symbian S4 (Pro?) for the LT29i Hayabusa and the Mint (which doesn't have a model number yet). Both are said to come out in early Q3.
CadetMahoney
Member
Can't wait for the upcoming NPD's. Wonder if we'll see sales increase or decrease over time for Sony.
specialguy
Banned
Is that really going to help them againt the absolute monster that is Samsung, though? "good"? Even HTC and LG struggle against the Samsung beast. The Galaxy S 3 is going to be an absolute monster and every Galaxy S phone sells more than the last. Phones imo are practically devolving into Apple vs Samsung (Android).
Wtf? How does Vita bring profit if lowered price means bigger losses? Do you think they will suddenly sell so much Vita software that it covers the losses from hw? And where's the Vita software that sells?
I hope it works out. When Sony was master race of the game world, things just ran smoothly. None of this gimmicky bullshit, just pure gaming non-stop... and the largest, most varied library of games under any roof, still to this day. All at a loss leading price for consumers.
I hope they can turn it around, but man Vita and their ongoing PS3 problems don't inspire hope. I love Vita, but I think gaming dedicated handhelds are on the decline and the days that a $250+ gaming dedicated handheld would ever have been viable are gone altogether (if they ever existed in the first place). I hope they know what they're doing for PS4.
I hope they can turn it around, but man Vita and their ongoing PS3 problems don't inspire hope. I love Vita, but I think gaming dedicated handhelds are on the decline and the days that a $250+ gaming dedicated handheld would ever have been viable are gone altogether (if they ever existed in the first place). I hope they know what they're doing for PS4.
You just reaffirmed what I just said, Sony are way behind the competition. OLED phone in 2013? Samsung had those back in 2010.
Symbian, what is that? Nokia OS? Or do you mean Snapdragon S4?
MightyHedgehog
Member
Those days aren't ever coming back. The mass market of today is the target of these huge corporations, not those that adore the traditional games of the 90s and early 00s. Sony needs success as fast as they can achieve it, so it's all "gimmicky bullshit" from here on out with Sony.
In that year (if you mean 2003-2004, 8.6% operating margin), SCE was sinking a lot of money into R&D and bespoke semiconductor development for two future platforms. So I'm not sure that year represents some best ever, never-to-be-repeated scenario just because it was in PS2's hey-day. The business and their expense base was quite different then than it appears to be now so that needs to be considered also.
That's not to say this target for FY14 isn't very ambitious - I think it is - but drawing a line between it and the make-up of PS4's hardware based on historical comparisons is a little difficult IMO given how much their approach has changed. My guess is that PS4's business/expense strategy will follow Vita's quite closely. Smaller losses (vs PS2/PS3), relatively small R&D outlay. No big new bespoke tech (which both of their two previous home platforms carried, bespoke silicon aside). This doesn't have to imply 'underspecced' - although maybe we have different ideas of what that means.
Maybe Sony should release a Windows Phone 7 based phone, cos there's still a big space to grow in comparison with the Android OS. In addition, WP7 only supports single core processors. They could easily build a cheap phone to compete with others.
According to many analysts, WP7 will beat Android in 2013 and/ or overtake iPhone in 2015. I don't know if I should believe this...
http://www.pyramidresearch.com/points/item/110509.htm?sc=PP051011_SMRT
http://www.isuppli.com/Mobile-and-Wireless-Communications/News/Pages/Lumia-900-Introduction-to-Trigger-Smartphone-Renaissance-for-Nokia-and-Microsoft.aspx
According to many analysts, WP7 will beat Android in 2013 and/ or overtake iPhone in 2015. I don't know if I should believe this...
http://www.pyramidresearch.com/points/item/110509.htm?sc=PP051011_SMRT
http://www.isuppli.com/Mobile-and-Wireless-Communications/News/Pages/Lumia-900-Introduction-to-Trigger-Smartphone-Renaissance-for-Nokia-and-Microsoft.aspx
Another Wii?? what's that even mean???
All they have to do is copy Apple? Isn't that what Samsung has done? And they are making bucket loads....
but seriously - too many fucking wrong decisions by Sony mostly through arrogance this generation...
when Apple makes decisions - they make the right choice because usually its the only sensible choice to make... I'm talking online infrastructure, pricing, design
Sony however spends money on Home, terrible PSN store to begin with, embarrassing PS2 online connectivity, move controllers, Sony stumble around but somehow get there in their end... but they take their freaking time....
To me its really obvious.... put out a decent competitively priced machine (next gen should be no more than $399, $500 in Australia), online movies to buy for cheap, massive hard drive space, CHEAP bite sized gaming (no more than $5 for games), triple AAA games at $39 ($50 in Australia), LOTS of downloadable content, especially for something like Singstar (get as many songs as possible - 2000 songs aint cutting it), add TV streams from other countries, BBC, Sports, NHK World, Bloomberg, Al Jazeera, MTV, you could even download the station's app for a fee if they could organise it. Make it something you turn on with your TV.
Let's face it - in Australia games are $100, no one buys them for that price anymore, they are $50 from the UK and I wait 2 or 3 months for them to get down to $30... very happy to wait the 2 or 3 months as there's WAY too many games these days on iPad, iPhone, DS, PSP, PS3, Wii, 360... no one can possibly play all these games and no one is going to buy them at exorbitant prices. You may as well bring the price down and get more people gaming early.
but seriously - too many fucking wrong decisions by Sony mostly through arrogance this generation...
when Apple makes decisions - they make the right choice because usually its the only sensible choice to make... I'm talking online infrastructure, pricing, design
Sony however spends money on Home, terrible PSN store to begin with, embarrassing PS2 online connectivity, move controllers, Sony stumble around but somehow get there in their end... but they take their freaking time....
To me its really obvious.... put out a decent competitively priced machine (next gen should be no more than $399, $500 in Australia), online movies to buy for cheap, massive hard drive space, CHEAP bite sized gaming (no more than $5 for games), triple AAA games at $39 ($50 in Australia), LOTS of downloadable content, especially for something like Singstar (get as many songs as possible - 2000 songs aint cutting it), add TV streams from other countries, BBC, Sports, NHK World, Bloomberg, Al Jazeera, MTV, you could even download the station's app for a fee if they could organise it. Make it something you turn on with your TV.
Let's face it - in Australia games are $100, no one buys them for that price anymore, they are $50 from the UK and I wait 2 or 3 months for them to get down to $30... very happy to wait the 2 or 3 months as there's WAY too many games these days on iPad, iPhone, DS, PSP, PS3, Wii, 360... no one can possibly play all these games and no one is going to buy them at exorbitant prices. You may as well bring the price down and get more people gaming early.
Antiquated hardware with a gimmick attached to hook gamers in.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
I didn't say they weren't behind the times, but they are at least jumping on the bandwagon at long last. Snapdragon, Sony don't make Symbian phones, they have at least dropped that dead weight. Got my words mixed up. D:
Just so you know the Sony Xperia S is the fastest selling phone in the UK over the last month that it has been out and Kaz specifically mentioned that they are going to halve the time it takes to develop phones so that they can respond to market needs much faster. That means from 2013 we should get a decent attempt at making a phone that competes properly with Samsung, again I think Sony should look at merging with Toshiba to bring proper foundry space in house and making their laptop lines more competitive it would also allow Toshiba to concentrate on their more profitable industrial goods line. Sony can't compete with Apple and Samsung until they start using their own SoC designs in their phones, stupidly they have and awesome one (Vita) but haven't used it for some unbeknownst reason.
Where did you get this data?
yes i dont think thats true
secondly they have put all their eggs on the android basket. Android market is a fickle one. Only one is making money and the others dont. First it was HTC. Now its Samsung. And because Samsung builts its own hardware and have better prices i dont see how in the near future this could change
I just cant see how sony mobiles will ever be able to take the 1st position from samsung ones. I dont think they can compete with HTC too.
Kenshin001
Member
Good to see they are intent on focussing on downloadable games on PSN. They are really lagging behind compared to XBLA and Steam. Don't know who is in charge of selecting and acquiring games for PSN but they are doing a poor job and should be replaced.
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