All next gen CPUs are going to be less powerful than Cell in terms of FLOPs.
Cell is a HPC chip, these consoles will be using consumer crap
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vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
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Cell is a HPC chip, these consoles will be using consumer crap
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
Purely in terms of FLOPs, that Steamroller rumour would put it at ~100 GFLOPs (~1/2 of Cell and ~8x Wii U).
Well, I have no idea what he means
What was that thing back in the day where people use to say the cell was pushing like 1.8TF or something lol.
Devkits tend to change as they progress. Alpha <> Beta <> Final
Pretty much what I'm expecting. I have a feeling the customization MS is doing for Durango is linked to Surface tablet streaming, that AR patent, and Kinect 2.0. They're likely trying to find ways of incorporating that processing into the GPU without being a detriment to games performance. It'll also likely need a stronger CPU for the Windows 8 integration.
Orbis will likely have the stronger GPU and the faster RAM may even give it a slight advantage in that area, depending on bandwidth and OS footprint. All in all it should be pretty similar in practice between the two systems.
I do find it funny that one of the most common rumors about Sony's specs is all of the devs yelling at them for more RAM about a year ago.
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
Yea, can't wait for VG247 article on the January dev kits.
then 1.8 tfops is not x10 Ps3 as that comment implies. It's around x7 in that case
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yep that is for certain still a next gen Cell with a few fixes would have been amazing to see .
There have been advances in GPU efficiency in the past 8 years so I think it's fair to say it would probably be about 10x PS3 in practice, GPU wise.
No basically according to this rumor both systems will be based on APUs, everything is integrated in a single big chip with a unified memory system.
While Microsoft will have a single GPU, Sony has two GPUs, one of them is 'flexible' and coupled to the CPU and can be used for GPGPU depending on applications.
Overall Sony is supposed to have a more powerful GPU (1.84 Teraflops versus 1.2-1.5 Teraflops).
Quite frankly it's not like any of the two system can be considered a beast if it's true.
We're talking about systems 5X more powerful overall than previous systems and if true I wouldn't expect them to be launched at a high price unless they're packed with cameras, sensors, expensive controllers and such.
Cell was was not an optimal solution for drawing things on screen. However, it was a beast at certain things like physics, animation, etc. This new CPU however, is much more powerful, you have nothing to worry about. This is just a far more conventional design.
Just in raw numbers. Efficiency in GPUs has dramatically increased in recent years and many devs think that they can push console optimization even further than previous gens with modern shaders.
EDIT: Beaten by Durante
Alright so being the partly non tech guy that I am......Ram would help with making it a faster OS with more features?
Nope. Longer.
-_- This shit again. Stop looking at total Flops as indicators of overall performance. RAM Bandwith, ALU's, etc. did they stop mattering? The PS4 has 4 GB of GDDR5. That is twice the amount of GDDR5 found in a GTX 680. :-O C'mon son -_-
Also total FLOPs in 2012 are exponentially more efficient than the ones in 2005.
Proelite
Member
Those are target specs. Dev kits have much much better specs that ones in the link. :/
Either way I am not buying it when it comes to MS at least. We heard what Crytech and Epic had to say. Sony will most likely ignore it, MS won't. I expect 2.5flops at least from MS. 1.2? Lol Sony fanboy wish(I am sony guy btw) imo
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
Imagine the textures possible in a closed environment corridor game like COD with 4GB ram dedicated to video.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yeah i know i not worry about would , just would have like to see the changes they would have done with Cell if they had used it again .
Not if PS4 = 4GB of GDDR5 & Next Xbox = 8GB of DDR3
Higher bandwith RAM would insure faster texture streaming, better framerates, ultra fast load times, larger worlds, more NPCs etc.
More RAM would have more detail in a scene, larger variety in textures, and more variation.
I think both the PS4 and 720 will hit atleast 2TF.
Always remember that Crytek has been in Microsoft's ear alot recently. They are supposedly making Ryse for Durango. Then there's Epic.
Sony could raise the TF to bring parity or greater than the Durango.
Both the 1.5 and 1.84 numbers are from really old rumors, possibly when they were targeting 2012 for launch. Both those numbers could have shifted up some. I was just joining in on some speculation that's on the lower end to keep my expectations in check. I'm still thinking we'll see between 2 and 2.5
James Sawyer Ford
Member
GPU efficiency + even increased GPU efficiency thanks to 4GB of lightening fast RAM will make a huge impact.
Easily ~10X PS3 performance
Easily ~10X PS3 performance
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
That comment that everyone is discussing did say there's two GPUs - one 0.5 and the other 1.3 for combined 1.8TF. Are they both on a single chip? (and if so, why?)
As for some other comments, I don't know how reasonable is to expect a 2.5TF GPU integrated on the same chip with the CPU, which is what seems both MS and Sony are doing. And I'm not sure why they are making things this way in the first place to be honest.
It's not unlikely that X720 will have some edram for that reason alone.
gundamkyoukai
Member
If Sony listen to there first parties i don't think anybody has anything to worry about .
Listening to Epic and Crytech is good but Sony has a huge amount of devs close to home that can lead them in the right way .
That makes all sort of games.
Yeah. I can see this. I remember in an Epic interview where things would start to get interesting for UE4 at 2TF. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I would listen to Crytek before any first party, because it was blatantly obvious this gen how the current gen consoles were not powerful enough to run CryEngine 3 as intended without compromise. IMO
First Party devs just build engines around the strengths and weaknesses of a console.
You only need 1Tf for fully featured UE4. The 2.4 number was an estimate they threw out for running Samaritan in real time on UE3. Using UE4 will likely have better results than UE3, depending on your focus. I think they may have been highballing the number a bit to try to influence things a bit more. If people heard that number they'd be expecting it and the hardware devs would feel some pressure to aim for it.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Maybe ProElite can explain what he meant by that.
But I think dev kits currently have 1.3 discrete GPU + .5 GPU inside the APU
But the final console will have both chips integrated into one 1.84 TF chip?
Yes, I expect X720 will have some solution to deal with bandwidth concerns, of course. I just don't think it can match 4 GB of GDDR5 on bandwidth at all.
Blood is thicker than water in this case. I think they are only giving their flagship studios, all of there attention and the others will get a simple "well look into it" mentality.
yes they asked for 2.5 flops.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
The key thing is "unique" or "never seen before" experiences. e.g., Kinect, that Xbox display MS showcased with Samsung in CES 2013. PrimeSense demo video has a sample presentation that illustrates a few movie + Kinect ideas for casuals too.
If it's the same old, same old gaming concept, the core gamers may be ok (perhaps somewhat lethargic), the mainstream press may not take it kindly.
I can see where Sony can deliver a unique concept, but it's hard to say if Sony will go there at this point. These SDK h/w specs war is too limited to really see what these nextgen boxes can do to core gamers, and casuals.
Proelite
Member
Bingo.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
yeah, see this is where stuff is getting confusing.
we suddenly have a few "insiders" in the thread confirming old information even though there's been ample "evidence" posted over the past few weeks that suggests things have evolved even further than the old info. that includes a few pinches of salt with jeff_rigby's educated guesses.
MWS Natural
Member
RAM speed > RAM amount? I thought I saw a interview from a dev who just wanted a shitload of RAM.
Edit:
Nevermind, just seen thruway's post. I guess it's down to type of game they are developing.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Fits oh too well.
It's overall bandwidth that matters, which can be accomplished either through speed or sheer number.
Exentryk
Member
I don't want gimmicks. Console, controller and a good game. That's it.
said same yesterday
McHuj
Member
Seems like a APU consisting of a standard 4 core x86 + standard GPU with access to really fast ram would be simpler to develop for than 8 slower cores + GPU with slower main memory and embedded ram to manage (plus any other additional hardware blocks).
I wonder if we could see Sony come out with an architecture that's more developer friendly than what MS is coming with.
I wonder if we could see Sony come out with an architecture that's more developer friendly than what MS is coming with.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I'm just wondering how accurate these rumors are?
Seems like it sources back to ProElite.
Are you an insider? Did you recently see something leak about the PS4, and should we hear about it soon?
Seems like it sources back to ProElite.
Are you an insider? Did you recently see something leak about the PS4, and should we hear about it soon?
No comment. ^_^
The vendors clearly have to balance their needs. There should be a few ideas that appeal to core gamers and casual ones, plus genuinely useful.
Kinect didn't really deliver on its promises fully but it's a start.
Graphics Horse
Member
Proelite has been posting information and disinformation to avoid leaks tracing back to the source. It's smart and a good way to avoid the MS or Sony ninja van.
The leaks source back to VGleaks. The 4 GB of GDDR5 is a recent inclusion.