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[VGC] Halo Infinite developer concedes ‘the community is out of patience’

STARSBarry

Gold Member
I don't know about you people, but I will happily shrug and wait 10 years for another Halo or Gears game to play for a week and uninstall forever; as soon as Microsoft shits out a bag of money for a new Quake game, or the acquisition of Sega.

I heard there doing that next Wednesday.
 
I just don't understand how they've managed to do this again, Halo 5 had the exact same problems, great gameplay but missing loads of features and basically not having any maps.

Great gameplay can only carry a game so far, especially a multiplayer shooter, you need content and maps if you want people to stay, and 4 months after launch they haven't added ANY content yet? Something needs to be done, I don't know what exactly but there's 0 excuse for a Halo game to have so few maps and missing basic features, I mean that's basically one of the main things that popularized the games, having tons of content, a full fledged campaign as well as tons of game modes and maps. I have minimal problems with campaign other than lack of coop and no replaying missions, but the absolute barebones multiplayer is beyond unacceptable, especially considering Halo's vast history of amazing maps.
 

PhaseJump

Gold Member
I heard there doing that next Wednesday.

 
Its literally the only thing that matters in a multiplayer game.

It's certainly the most important thing, but when you play the same 4 maps over and over again and can't even choose to play certain game modes without doing the game modes with multiple, not even great gameplay can fix that. It's why I fizzled out of Halo 5 and why I"m fizzling out of Infinite, I want to play this game, but they won't even do the basic thing of remastering some Halo 4/5 maps and putting them in, let alone getting some of the older maps in. And I'm not saying I only want old maps because I actually really like the maps in Halo Infinite and 5, there's just not enough of them and remastering old maps is a quick and easy way to add to the map count
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member


If you need more content to burn through, you're gameplay isn't good enough.

If Halo Infinite shipped with 20 maps, it would have been dropped just as quickly by the public.

Having more content gives variety and can extend a games longevity. Don’t know why your trying to convince us that less is more. Maybe play a few great multiplayer games with great content and come back to us.
 

ethomaz

Banned


If you need more content to burn through, you're gameplay isn't good enough.

If Halo Infinite shipped with 20 maps, it would have been dropped just as quickly by the public.
I think when he mean more content he means modes and not just modes.

You can have Chess, Go, Tetris, etc… multiplayer can have a lot of modes… well even in that picture you posted you can play several type of games.

And I agree even maps can give some gameplay differences… there are maps with more hidden spots, others more open, other more transversal, etc.
 
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ZehDon

Member
... If Halo Infinite shipped with 20 maps, it would have been dropped just as quickly by the public.
The public dropped it because: the net code doesn't work, the progression system is fucking garbage, the monetisation system is trash, custom games are broken, the game employs random game modes, random maps, random weapons and random vehicles, the game prevents social interactions by design, the game is missing basic features like co-op, the game is missing legacy features like custom game browser, and the game is missing complex features like Forge. On top of that, exacerbating the underlying fundamental issues, the game shipped with the smallest amount of content in any Halo game in franchise history, while also shipping with the largest amount of bugs, while taking the longest time to develop.

The public were clearly very happy with the gameplay, which is why the flights were received so exceptionally well, and the game had a stellar launch with terrific word of mouth. 'Halo's back, baby!'. No one was happy with 343i's buggy broken hollow predatory disaster of a game, which took about two weeks to sink in.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
Having more content gives variety and can extend a games longevity. Don’t know why your trying to convince us that less is more. Maybe play a few great multiplayer games with great content and come back to us.

Just another mindless console warrior. Dude will defend this game until this final breath.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
Just another mindless console warrior. Dude will defend this game until this final breath.

People wonder why multiplayer games get new maps and modes added to them. It’s to extend the longevity of the title. Sure great gameplay is the priority but you need to have a steady flow of new content to keep people engaged. Playing the same few maps over and over again will get boring after a while.
 

ZywyPL

Gold Member
People wonder why multiplayer games get new maps and modes added to them. It’s to extend the longevity of the title. Sure great gameplay is the priority but you need to have a steady flow of new content to keep people engaged. Playing the same few maps over and over again will get boring after a while.

BR games showed people can play a single node on a single map for years, as long as they're having fun. Sorry but skins, dances, charms etc. are not strictly "content" that makes the game fresh.
 

01011001

Gold Member
played the game yesterday, wanted to play team slayer... after 5min of not finding a match I exited the game.

after that, I hopped onto MCC, searched for a Team Slayer match in Halo Reach, found a game in literally 10 seconds. then I switched it to Halo 2, again only with team slayer checked, and found a match in 3 seconds.

this speaks for itself I think. people only play Infinite to unlock the free stuff due to the FOMO design of how its free unlocks are designed. this means the already tiny playerbase will only play the current mode they have to in order to unlock stuff. and yesterday apparently noone needed to do team slayer challenges at the time I wanted to play that mode.

yes another way how the progression/challenge system completely ruins this already awful game
 
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MasterCornholio

Gold Member
BR games showed people can play a single node on a single map for years, as long as they're having fun. Sorry but skins, dances, charms etc. are not strictly "content" that makes the game fresh.

Are you talking about Fortnite because that game received content over the years. And yes things like skins and new weapons can give people an incentive to continue playing the game. Great gameplay isn’t the only ingredient you need to have a successful multiplayer game. If that was true Halo Infinite wouldn’t have seen these drops in the charts. Which I believe is what people are discussing here.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
BR games showed people can play a single node on a single map for years, as long as they're having fun. Sorry but skins, dances, charms etc. are not strictly "content" that makes the game fresh.

BR Games actively change up the maps, constantly. What are you on about?
 

ZywyPL

Gold Member
Are you talking about Fortnite because that game received content over the years. And yes things like skins and new weapons can give people an incentive to continue playing the game. Great gameplay isn’t the only ingredient you need to have a successful multiplayer game. If that was true Halo Infinite wouldn’t have seen these drops in the charts. Which I believe is what people are discussing here.

The game could've launched with 100 maps and 30 playlist, and it still wouldn't matter due to all the network issues, the game is just a pain in the ass to play at its current state, so no wonder 343 is prioritizing exactly that before they start feeding the game with more content.
 
The public dropped it because: the net code doesn't work, the progression system is fucking garbage, the monetisation system is trash, custom games are broken, the game employs random game modes, random maps, random weapons and random vehicles, the game prevents social interactions by design, the game is missing basic features like co-op, the game is missing legacy features like custom game browser, and the game is missing complex features like Forge. On top of that, exacerbating the underlying fundamental issues, the game shipped with the smallest amount of content in any Halo game in franchise history, while also shipping with the largest amount of bugs, while taking the longest time to develop.

The public were clearly very happy with the gameplay, which is why the flights were received so exceptionally well, and the game had a stellar launch with terrific word of mouth. 'Halo's back, baby!'. No one was happy with 343i's buggy broken hollow predatory disaster of a game, which took about two weeks to sink in.

I read your list of complaints and I think two things...

1. We played CTF on Blood Gulch for 2 years in high school. Halo was awesome back then.

2. Why your list of complaints weren't major talking points in November 2021. Instead, everyone was shouting that "Halo was back, baby!"

Again, I refer to a Cliff Bleszinski interview where he did a referendum on why Lawbreakers failed and he gave a list of BS answers ("people associate me with XBox"), when in reality it died because the game wasn't any good. Functional is not good.

Love makes people blind. I don't love IP so I can usually see through hype, marketing, and honeymoon periods better than most.
 
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th4tguy

Member





Seems like 343 really fumbled the big momentum they had late last year with this game. It was received very well and had a huge player base that seems to have dwindled to nothing.

I think the truth is that the game just came in way too hot and what they got out in time was the best it was gonna be for awhile. I do wonder if season 2 can regain some of the momentum whenever it launches
When you have to build the engine and tools along with the game, you often run into long delays.
Imagine being a level designer and everyday not knowing if the item you are working on will have to be put on hold for a week plus because the tools or engine just doesn’t support what you needed to do yet.
 

ethomaz

Banned
BR games showed people can play a single node on a single map for years, as long as they're having fun. Sorry but skins, dances, charms etc. are not strictly "content" that makes the game fresh.
Maybe you need to check multiplayer communities and to to a better understanding Free 2 Play multiplayer community.

My cousin keeps playing more Freefire than Fortnite, and maybe I put money in his account, just because there he can have the Alok skin with his emotes… Alok is more known here in Brasil than the Travis guy they put on Fortine.

So these skins are things that makes he wants to play the game… there are famous skins that he wanted to buy too…

BTW for him GTA is the second come to come to earth… he venerate GTA games… well all his friends to be fair… he is around 10 years old… everybody at that age only plays what all friends plays and thinks is cool.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
When you have to build the engine and tools along with the game, you often run into long delays.
Imagine being a level designer and everyday not knowing if the item you are working on will have to be put on hold for a week plus because the tools or engine just doesn’t support what you needed to do yet.
To be fair that is the excuse Bungie give to migrate from Destiny to Destiny 2.
But it never felt like Destiny 2’s updates and new content were faster or constant than Destiny.
 
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And yet, you keep defending this game. I wonder why that is? (Rhetorical question, we all know why that is).

I'm fascinated by people's inability to see how rapidly our industry is changing. Multiplayer is headed towards a new brave frontier and we have people swearing that cosmetics and net code, rather than uninspired, repetitive gameplay loops, are why people are dropping Halo.

The only thing I can compare it to is how most 2D games started bombing once the N64 and PSX took hold. We literally can't go back.
 

th4tguy

Member
I just don't understand how they've managed to do this again, Halo 5 had the exact same problems, great gameplay but missing loads of features and basically not having any maps.

Great gameplay can only carry a game so far, especially a multiplayer shooter, you need content and maps if you want people to stay, and 4 months after launch they haven't added ANY content yet? Something needs to be done, I don't know what exactly but there's 0 excuse for a Halo game to have so few maps and missing basic features, I mean that's basically one of the main things that popularized the games, having tons of content, a full fledged campaign as well as tons of game modes and maps. I have minimal problems with campaign other than lack of coop and no replaying missions, but the absolute barebones multiplayer is beyond unacceptable, especially considering Halo's vast history of amazing maps.
It’s because they are maintaining the engine at the same time. Some studios can better handle that but 343 has proven they can’t.
They should have just transitioned to unreal.
 

th4tguy

Member
To be fair that is the excuse Bungie give to migrate from Destiny to Destiny 2.
But it never felt like Destiny 2’s updates and new content were faster or constant than Destiny.
We have no idea how much existing framework had to be redone. Going from a cross gen engine to a current only gen version of the engine prompted a rework/write of a lot of areas of code that just didn’t take advantage of current technologies.

From the outside, we don’t see any difference, but under the hood, it’s practically new code. Better code. More future proof code.
Of course working on a live service game and dealing with all the Activision politics that we’re going on probably didn’t help.
 
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Razvedka

Member





Seems like 343 really fumbled the big momentum they had late last year with this game. It was received very well and had a huge player base that seems to have dwindled to nothing.

I think the truth is that the game just came in way too hot and what they got out in time was the best it was gonna be for awhile. I do wonder if season 2 can regain some of the momentum whenever it launches
343i should be shuttered. They've had enough opportunities. I've been a Halo fanatic since I was 11, and I just need these guys to go away.

Microsoft now has a crazy stable of talent. Shit, let ID make a Halo game. Why not?
 
What other games have shown I.e. SoT, No Man's Sky, is proof that games can recover and build the momentum they lost.

Halo Infinite is in a different camp than those games. Those were new IP and had no prior history of disappointing or misleading fans, because they had no fans to begin with.

343i have a history of messing Halo up in one significant way or another ever since they took over the franchise, and now they've gone as far as to piss off the hardcore fanbase with Infinite. Once you piss off your hardcore fans, they don't tend to come back, at least not for VERY long time.

When the IP is new and just building up a fanbase, if that fanbase ends up pissed they'll be more forgiving since, again, it's a new IP. Even so, No Man's Sky never got the attention once fixed like it did when it launched, same with Sea of Thieves really. I just think SoT benefited from having Microsoft as a publisher so when milestones were reached, people took notice, and the PotC expansion was probably the first time for many in years actually having it hit home "Yeah, this game still exists.". No Man's Sky hasn't gotten that type of boost it seems.

Halo Infinite seems like the straw that broke the camel's back (the camel's back being the core community's patience/acceptance of 343i as a developer on Halo). I don't see a path of recovery for Halo Infinite unless:

-Effectively use a new big Season update (All usual MP options, Forge mode, Campaign co-op, new Story Campaign content) to soft-relaunch the game​
-Fix the ridiculous battle progression​
-Normalize MTX prices​

and they (343i) might be able to salvage their reputation among the core fanbase and maybe even draw back some of the casual fans. But they need to take care of their hardcore/core fanbase first and foremost. If they can't do that, they probably can't do anything for the game to really bring in casuals like a Battle Royale, because let's say they just skip all that stuff I said but bring out a good BR mode.

Okay, fine...at what cost? They probably just alienate even more of the core fanbase, and now the franchise loses its foundation to hop on the hot new thing. What if having a BR isn't enough anymore, where would they go having left their foundation in shambles? I think that's when you seriously look at a future where 343i is just no longer making Halo games, maybe some of the team join other Microsoft Gaming studios like iD Software, Bethesda, Obsidian etc. Maybe there's a good case to be made for reforming 343i as an internal technical support studio. Let them assist in helping other studios get their games developed faster.

And maybe...you either just let another studio take on Halo (again, maybe iD Software, etc.) if they're interested, or you just focus on Halo outside of gaming. Worst case, you retire the Halo brand altogether.

One thing for sure though I think 343i is going to undergo some massive changes in structure once the ABK deal fully goes through. And maybe some "other" changes need to be made at the upper management levels of XGS altogether, maybe do something about Matt Booty 🤔...
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
The game could've launched with 100 maps and 30 playlist, and it still wouldn't matter due to all the network issues, the game is just a pain in the ass to play at its current state, so no wonder 343 is prioritizing exactly that before they start feeding the game with more content.

I thought you said the gameplay was just fine. I was always under the impression it was the lack in content that’s causing the player numbers to drop.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Halo Infinite is in a different camp than those games. Those were new IP and had no prior history of disappointing or misleading fans, because they had no fans to begin with.

343i have a history of messing Halo up in one significant way or another ever since they took over the franchise, and now they've gone as far as to piss off the hardcore fanbase with Infinite. Once you piss off your hardcore fans, they don't tend to come back, at least not for VERY long time.

When the IP is new and just building up a fanbase, if that fanbase ends up pissed they'll be more forgiving since, again, it's a new IP. Even so, No Man's Sky never got the attention once fixed like it did when it launched, same with Sea of Thieves really. I just think SoT benefited from having Microsoft as a publisher so when milestones were reached, people took notice, and the PotC expansion was probably the first time for many in years actually having it hit home "Yeah, this game still exists.". No Man's Sky hasn't gotten that type of boost it seems.

Halo Infinite seems like the straw that broke the camel's back (the camel's back being the core community's patience/acceptance of 343i as a developer on Halo). I don't see a path of recovery for Halo Infinite unless:

-Effectively use a new big Season update (All usual MP options, Forge mode, Campaign co-op, new Story Campaign content) to soft-relaunch the game​
-Fix the ridiculous battle progression​
-Normalize MTX prices​

and they (343i) might be able to salvage their reputation among the core fanbase and maybe even draw back some of the casual fans. But they need to take care of their hardcore/core fanbase first and foremost. If they can't do that, they probably can't do anything for the game to really bring in casuals like a Battle Royale, because let's say they just skip all that stuff I said but bring out a good BR mode.

Okay, fine...at what cost? They probably just alienate even more of the core fanbase, and now the franchise loses its foundation to hop on the hot new thing. What if having a BR isn't enough anymore, where would they go having left their foundation in shambles? I think that's when you seriously look at a future where 343i is just no longer making Halo games, maybe some of the team join other Microsoft Gaming studios like iD Software, Bethesda, Obsidian etc. Maybe there's a good case to be made for reforming 343i as an internal technical support studio. Let them assist in helping other studios get their games developed faster.

And maybe...you either just let another studio take on Halo (again, maybe iD Software, etc.) if they're interested, or you just focus on Halo outside of gaming. Worst case, you retire the Halo brand altogether.

One thing for sure though I think 343i is going to undergo some massive changes in structure once the ABK deal fully goes through. And maybe some "other" changes need to be made at the upper management levels of XGS altogether, maybe do something about Matt Booty 🤔...
Mmmh… I think No Man’s Sky got a good amount of people noticing and joining up with each big update they released for free.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
I'm fascinated by people's inability to see how rapidly our industry is changing. Multiplayer is headed towards a new brave frontier and we have people swearing that cosmetics and net code, rather than uninspired, repetitive gameplay loops, are why people are dropping Halo.

The only thing I can compare it to is how most 2D games started bombing once the N64 and PSX took hold. We literally can't go back.

Moving goalposts and strawman arguments. Got to love silly console warriors.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Mmmh… I think No Man’s Sky got a good amount of people noticing and joining up with each big update they released for free.

It might feel like that now, but it took years of work before that. Sure there was a small bump for Foundation, Pathfinder and Atlas, but it wasent until Next that people really started to come back, that was 2 years of constant updates with zero additions to cost or a push of an MTX store.

Thats what it took to get NMS to redeem itself in people's eyes... well some people's there are still those who say its still a cash grab to this day.

The key here is the intent behind the updates too, they didn't try and charge and call it an expantion or flood online with new digital cosmetics, they made a mistake and to this day release updates to try and deliver the title they always promised.

The biggest addition to Halo's Season 2 will be in its MTX shop, that's the core diffrence for that. It would be better to draw comparisons to Rainbow Six Siege as Ubisoft's focus there was around its long term MTX strategy much like Halo.

Unless of course 343i pull a radical shift out of no where, but they will be selling a Pizza skin for the AR for 15$ any day now is my bet.
 
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Mmmh… I think No Man’s Sky got a good amount of people noticing and joining up with each big update they released for free.

When was their latest update?

I know the community seems to love the game now, I just wonder how prevalent the idea among gamers as a whole is that it's a good game now, compared to the perception the game had at its launch. Mainly for people outside of the core community.

But that said, if the game's doing right by its core fanbase that's ultimately what matters. When or if Halo Infinite gets there is the big question.

So there is still no timetable for CO-OP campaign and the ability to replay missions, is that right?

They have a timeline to announce a timeline.

Yes, you read that correctly.
 
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ZywyPL

Gold Member
I thought you said the gameplay was just fine. I was always under the impression it was the lack in content that’s causing the player numbers to drop.

It's a mix of everything to be honest, but first and foremost 343 needs to bring the game to playable state, so that people won't rage quit and eventually leave the game all together. Then they can think about twraking/balancing the game, adding playlists, more maps, cosmetics, etc.
 

dvdvideo

Member
Oh great, another let's complain about halo thread. They delivered an excellent game (don't believe me, check out the scores), and they continue to improve it. So they aren't as fast as some would like, big deal.
Way, way more made out of this than it really is. Some of you act like this game is Star Citizen 2.0 and the sky is falling.
 

MasterCornholio

Gold Member
It's a mix of everything to be honest, but first and foremost 343 needs to bring the game to playable state, so that people won't rage quit and eventually leave the game all together. Then they can think about twraking/balancing the game, adding playlists, more maps, cosmetics, etc.

Weird I thought the issue wasn’t the playability of the game. This is the first time I’m hearing of network issues BTW. Is it as bad as the MCC when it first released?
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
When was their latest update?

They have had about 17 major updates in about five years plus a lot of minor ones. Some of these coincided with platform updates like adding PSVR/VR support, Xbox One support, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X support, XSX|S and PS5 support, etc… and now we will get a native Switch version too.

 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
But they need to take care of their hardcore/core fanbase first and foremost.
200% agree, in the darkest of dark days at Apple it was that focus (even more than MS’s cash infusion) that gave that company a new life and planted the seeds of the $3 Trillion company we see now (that and Jobs’s vision amongst other things). They rebuilt on their core customers first.
 

ZywyPL

Gold Member
Weird I thought the issue wasn’t the playability of the game. This is the first time I’m hearing of network issues BTW. Is it as bad as the MCC when it first released?

Dunno about MCC, never played it, but Infinite has some serious networking issues causing bullet hits not being registered, dying behind a corner, melee lunge, melee hits not being registered, and so on. But luckily 343 are fully aware of those issues and looks like they'll start addressing them eith Season 2 launch.
 
I’ll spin Infinite back up in 2 years. Hopefully they’ve pulled a No Mans Sky by then. At this point, I’m waiting for the “coop is never going to happen,” and “here’s a campaign DLC for $30,” announcements.
 
They have had about 17 major updates in about five years plus a lot of minor ones. Some of these coincided with platform updates like adding PSVR/VR support, Xbox One support, PS4 Pro and Xbox One X support, XSX|S and PS5 support, etc… and now we will get a native Switch version too.


Oh a Switch version could definitely help the game blow up if they do a decent bit of advertising and WOM is good. Can't think of any other games like NMS on Switch, it'd be able to carve out a niche fairly easy over there.

Dunno about MCC, never played it, but Infinite has some serious networking issues causing bullet hits not being registered, dying behind a corner, melee lunge, melee hits not being registered, and so on. But luckily 343 are fully aware of those issues and looks like they'll start addressing them eith Season 2 launch.

Did they know about these issues prior to December 8th, though? I mean they had multiple flights, these weren't issues in the flights, so why did they introduce things that made them issues in the full release?

It just seems they're being a bit slow in getting these fixes out; tho I'm really enjoying my time with it HFW launched with a decent number of issues too but GG got pretty much all of them patched and fixed in 2-3 weeks.

How does it take 343i 4+ months to fix these issues with netcode, hit detection etc. outside of straight-up sloppy prioritization when they don't seem to have an issue pushing out more and more monetized cosmetics? Just kind of speaks further to disorganization & misplaced priorities by upper management, even by Microsoft considering they're the publisher (they could force 343i to prioritize whatever they deemed necessary since they're funding and publishing the game, same with Sony and Polyphony on GT7's issues...fwiw Polyphony at least 100% owed up to their mistakes and are implementing fixes ASAP).
 

ZehDon

Member
I read your list of complaints and I think two things...

1. We played CTF on Blood Gulch for 2 years in high school. Halo was awesome back then.

2. Why your list of complaints weren't major talking points in November 2021. Instead, everyone was shouting that "Halo was back, baby!"

Again, I refer to a Cliff Bleszinski interview where he did a referendum on why Lawbreakers failed and he gave a list of BS answers ("people associate me with XBox"), when in reality it died because the game wasn't any good. Functional is not good.

Love makes people blind. I don't love IP so I can usually see through hype, marketing, and honeymoon periods better than most.
Nothing you've written addresses anything in my post in a meaningful way.

Halo Infinite's gameplay is solid. Literally every other aspect of the game is questionable at best, hence its failure.
 
Base game (online) is there but it desperately needed content after a month.

I've gone back to apex.... They seem to update their game frequently.
 
Nothing you've written addresses anything in my post in a meaningful way.

Halo Infinite's gameplay is solid. Literally every other aspect of the game is questionable at best, hence its failure.

Yeah, I just don't think Halo Infinites gameplay is solid like I no longer think Goldeneye (N64) gameplay is solid. Phenomenal for it's time, but poo today.

I don't know why people don't recognize how far and fast multiplayer advances.
 
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I don't think they ever even hinted that Infinite would get any kind of RT support.

Unlike Minecraft which actually *GOT* RT support "by accident" a week ago.
They sure did. One of the devs even talked about it in a video a while back. And they even noted when Halo Infinite came out that it was top priority and they'd be working with AMD directly on it.
 

ZehDon

Member
Yeah, I just don't think Halo Infinites gameplay is solid like I no longer think Goldeneye (N64) gameplay is solid. Phenomenal for it's time, but poo today.

I don't know why people don't recognize how far and fast multiplayer advances.
Yes, because Halo Infinite in comparable to Goldeneye. Really astute comparison.
 
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