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[VGC] Halo Infinite developer concedes ‘the community is out of patience’

Yes, because Halo Infinite in comparable to Goldeneye. Really astute comparison.

Both were high water marks for quality and ambition in the FPS genre for their day. Both have gameplay loops that can't entertain modern audiences.
 
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TrebleShot

Member
this game is one of the enigmas of modern gaming times.

Over hyped and when delayed the hype seemed to boost it further.

What was delivered is bargain bin shite.
 
343i “10 year plan? Hell yes gonna kick back for 9 years”



Every game release is broken, each launch has less content than before and we're a long way off from anything meaningful but the industry media says crunch is bad. Cheers, 9 to 5 for ten years it is then. Job security regardless of repeat performance metrics must be nice.

I was in a party chat last night with 6 of us, all Halo buddies for a long time. 1 of them hasn't even installed Infinite at all despite having Gamepass too, just doesn't give a shit when Apex Legends is around. 2 of them do shitty challenges when a cosmetic comes up they want but bitch about the game the whole time then don't play for large durations at a time. Those same 2 don't watch the show at all and laughed their asses off/got angry when they asked me to give them a run down of the show and heard what the first 2 episodes have/don't have. Myself I don't play Infinite anymore, campaign or multi; game is a shit show of exactly why 343 don't understand classic Halo in terms of maps, modes, matchmaking, content and more. It's terrible netcode and management decision in and out of the game are not a title I want to play. Out of the other 2 only 1 has played the campaign and enjoyed it but doesn't want to revisit multiplayer at all. He calls it the game that should not be named. The last doesn't give any shits about Halo at all and just plays Apex, hasn't touched Infinite after playing together for 13+ years and we've done countless ODST firefight, Halo 3 coop, Reach/4 multi and more.

None of our kids, half of them above have kids, play Halo at all. None of our kids played the campaign for Infinite (there is no coop to play with our kids), none of them play multiplayer at all. All those kids (8 of them from 3 parents in the chat) went from playing minecraft and nintendo to fortnite and Apex over the years. They literally have no reason to play Halo. Between minecraft, Fortnite and Apex you have better gameplay, better maps, more content more often, variety of characters/skins and modes of play that do everything Halo could do in its last few releases. Forge is in fortnite for them, watching my son and his friends do what we used to do in Halo customs/forge was interesting for this Halo fan to see that torch pass long ago. Apex shits on Halo's competitive scene and ranked play. Apex's netcode also shits on Infinite.

When you look at the population for Halo spikes when they launch or release content they're not attracting new players at all. It's the old fans having their quick fill and then not being retained or helping to grow the playerbase. Crossplay and Gamepass inflated those numbers, for awhile. It's why you keep seeing the drop off a cliff with 343 games. There isn't that hook and stream of content to keep you playing. You cannot build anything in Halo Infinite. You don't share activities like Destiny, Fortnite or Apex when you drop, loot, flow through maps and attack or flee etc. It's a rinse and repeat McDonalds Halo now. This grows old very quickly just like MLG playlists did of old. Had Halo released a BR or some PvE style content there would have been something new to the franchise while delivering a stream for retention.

How this company missed either of the BR or the PvE opportunities with the backing of Azure intrinsic to 343/MS is fucking beyond me. The beauty of a full blow PvE mode with progression, loot and story content on the regular was more than enough to do a Destiny style game and bring something to the table and could have been built from 343's experience with Azure and Halo 5's very well received firefight and mode. Bungie gave us RAIDs, LAIRs, strikes, world events, multiple planets, lore (ok somewhat in game I'll admit) and fucking cool art simulations to play in over recent years.

In, now pushing towards 7 years, fucking Infinite cannot even get good maps, vehicles that even work in maps designed around them, spawns that create fair and fun/competitive gameplay or working netcode for a large part of things. No shit we're out of patience. You fucked MCC, you've ditched all of the Halo lore since that terminals dump in Halo 4 so you freed up your own writers and now we've got an incomplete game, taking massive time to correct, adding fuck all new that's really replayable or shared with friends and a TV show 10 years too late that just throws the whole fucking universe into the sun so you get a fresh start again.

Another words the last 10 years from 343 is basically a giant fuck you to massive Halo fans everywhere. This is what fan investment gets you? Zero continuity in terms of story, character, universe, gameplay, features. Let alone games that actually work as best in class from supposed top tier studios and platforms.

So you say 10 year plan. Fuck you, you've had 7 years and you've given us dick.

May be I woke up on the wrong side of the cryo tube today but this is what they've done to Halo. Love has turned to hate in many aspects and it flip flops to and fro. I'm hoping the TV show really starts to kick some goals and that Infinite's new mode is really something special but again I think of what I would have done with Halo in the last 7 years of development and hundreds of millions of dollars and I get angry. I get angry at what could have been...no...what should have been.
 
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jigglet

Gold Member


Every game release is broken, each launch has less content than before and we're a long way off from anything meaningful but the industry media says crunch is bad. Cheers, 9 to 5 for ten years it is then. Job security regardless of repeat performance metrics must be nice.

I was in a party chat last night with 6 of us, all Halo buddies for a long time. 1 of them hasn't even installed Infinite at all despite having Gamepass too, just doesn't give a shit when Apex Legends is around. 2 of them do shitty challenges when a cosmetic comes up they want but bitch about the game the whole time then don't play for large durations at a time. Those same 2 don't watch the show at all and laughed their asses off/got angry when they asked me to give them a run down of the show and heard what the first 2 episodes have/don't have. Myself I don't play Infinite anymore, campaign or multi; game is a shit show of exactly why 343 don't understand classic Halo in terms of maps, modes, matchmaking, content and more. It's terrible netcode and management decision in and out of the game are not a title I want to play. Out of the other 2 only 1 has played the campaign and enjoyed it but doesn't want to revisit multiplayer at all. He calls it the game that should not be named. The last doesn't give any shits about Halo at all and just plays Apex, hasn't touched Infinite after playing together for 13+ years and we've done countless ODST firefight, Halo 3 coop, Reach/4 multi and more.

None of our kids, half of them above have kids, play Halo at all. None of our kids played the campaign for Infinite (there is no coop to play with our kids), none of them play multiplayer at all. All those kids (8 of them from 3 parents in the chat) went from playing minecraft and nintendo to fortnite and Apex over the years. They literally have no reason to play Halo. Between minecraft, Fortnite and Apex you have better gameplay, better maps, more content more often, variety of characters/skins and modes of play that do everything Halo could do in its last few releases. Forge is in fortnite for them, watching my son and his friends do what we used to do in Halo customs/forge was interesting for this Halo fan to see that torch pass long ago. Apex shits on Halo's competitive scene and ranked play. Apex's netcode also shits on Infinite.

When you look at the population for Halo spikes when they launch or release content they're not attracting new players at all. It's the old fans having their quick fill and then not being retained or helping to grow the playerbase. Crossplay and Gamepass inflated those numbers, for awhile. It's why you keep seeing the drop off a cliff with 343 games. There isn't that hook and stream of content to keep you playing. You cannot build anything in Halo Infinite. You don't share activities like Destiny, Fortnite or Apex when you drop, loot, flow through maps and attack or flee etc. It's a rinse and repeat McDonalds Halo now. This grows old very quickly just like MLG playlists did of old. Had Halo released a BR or some PvE style content there would have been something new to the franchise while delivering a stream for retention.

How this company missed either of the BR or the PvE opportunities with the backing of Azure intrinsic to 343/MS is fucking beyond me. The beauty of a full blow PvE mode with progression, loot and story content on the regular was more than enough to do a Destiny style game and bring something to the table and could have been built from 343's experience with Azure and Halo 5's very well received firefight and mode. Bungie gave us RAIDs, LAIRs, strikes, world events, multiple planets, lore (ok somewhat in game I'll admit) and fucking cool art simulations to play in over recent years.

In, now pushing towards 7 years, fucking Infinite cannot even get good maps, vehicles that even work in maps designed around them, spawns that create fair and fun/competitive gameplay or working netcode for a large part of things. No shit we're out of patience. You fucked MCC, you've ditched all of the Halo lore since that terminals dump in Halo 4 so you freed up your own writers and now we've got an incomplete game, taking massive time to correct, adding fuck all new that's really replayable or shared with friends and a TV show 10 years too late that just throws the whole fucking universe into the sun so you get a fresh start again.

Another words the last 10 years from 343 is basically a giant fuck you to massive Halo fans everywhere. This is what fan investment gets you? Zero continuity in terms of story, character, universe, gameplay, features. Let alone games that actually work as best in class from supposed top tier studios and platforms.

So you say 10 year plan. Fuck you, you've had 7 years and you've given us dick.

May be I woke up on the wrong side of the cryo tube today but this is what they've done to Halo. Love has turned to hate in many aspects and it flip flops to and fro. I'm hoping the TV show really starts to kick some goals and that Infinite's new mode is really something special but again I think of what I would have done with Halo in the last 7 years of development and hundreds of millions of dollars and I get angry. I get angry at what could have been...no...what should have been.

I work in this industry and crunch is just part of the game. IT / technology is a project driven industry - lots of peaks and troughs. There are throughs where you’re sitting there surfing the web for months at a time while you wait for the designers to finish. Then the designers will have troughs where they wait weeks or months for the next build. Same with the testers. Same with the architects etc etc. It’s relaxing as fuck, I have time to sit here posting shit half the year. But the trade off is when it comes time to work, yes you can be hit with 12-15 hour days for months on end but that’s just pay back for sitting there posting memes on Neogaf all day. It’s just part and parcel of the way software is made. If these liberals want a strict 9-5 job I’m sorry this isn’t the industry. Go become a doctor. Go become a lawyer. Go work at whatever job. It pisses me off that these newly graduated virtue signalers sign up for this life but go ohhhh no crunch is evil! STFU. Most of us get paid $100-300k a year. Suck it up and earn that money. They pay me so well to do what I do, when they ask me to work overtime or weekends, who the fuck am I to say no? Would I rather work at McDonald’s? Yeah no thanks.

(Not looking down on anyone that works at McDonald’s, I respect anyone that does whatever it takes to put food on the table for their families)
 
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I work in this industry and crunch is just part of the game. IT / technology is a project driven industry - lots of peaks and troughs. There are throughs where you’re sitting there surfing the web for months at a time while you wait for the designers to finish. Then the designers will have troughs where they wait weeks or months for the next build etc etc. It’s relaxing as fuck. But the trade off is when it comes time to work, yes you can be hit with 12-15 hour days for months on end but that’s just pay back for sitting there watching YouTube for months. It’s just part and parcel of the way software is made. If these liberals want a strict 9-5 job I’m sorry this isn’t the industry. Go become a doctor. Go become a lawyer. Go work at whatever job. It pisses me off that these newly graduated virtue signalers sign up for this life but go ohhhh no crunch is evil! STFU. Most of us get paid $100-300k a year. Suck it up and earn that money. They pay me so well to do what I do, when they ask me to work overtime or weekends, who the fuck am I to say no? Would I rather work at McDonald’s? Yeah no thanks.

Same goes here. I have contractors I keep on projects as the same goes. I have ups and downs myself as well. One thing is for certain if a project falls behind like Infinite has you get your ass and everyone else's ass around you working. Cakewalking it ain't gonna cut it. If you mismanaged so poorly you're blowing out the deadline and missing 50% of the requirements still you bet your ass it's crunch time.

The opposite it true, if you're great at your job, take the arvo off. Post wins on the board and help others out hey take a holiday. Etc. I agree with the idea of managing right up front and avoiding unrealistic crunch but the other end of the scale needs to balance as well, if that fails crunch is the equaliser. I also agree with giving employees a vested interest e.g. stock options and such so passion, hard work, a sense of team and all that bubbles up to the forefront. Totally agree with what you say about pay as well. If you're pushing $100-$300K overtime is part of your package already. You're also taking great family holidays and all that to balance the life scales too.
 
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jigglet

Gold Member
Same goes here. I have contractors I keep on projects as the same goes. I have ups and downs myself as well. One thing is for certain if a project falls behind like Infinite has you get your ass and everyone else's ass around you working. Cakewalking it ain't gonna cut it. If you mismanaged so poorly you're blowing out the deadline and missing 50% of the requirements still you bet your ass it's crunch time.

The opposite it true, if you're great at your job, take the arvo off. Post wins on the board and help others out hey take a holiday. Etc. I agree with the idea of managing right up front and avoiding unrealistic crunch but the other end of the scale needs to balance as well, if that fails crunch is the equaliser. I also agree with giving employees a vested interest e.g. stock options and such so passion, hard work, a sense of team and all that bubbles up to the forefront. Totally agree with what you say about pay as well. If you're pushing $100-$300K overtime is part of your package already. You're also taking great family holidays and all that to balance the life scales too.

I think all these people who sympathize with these anti-crunch people have no idea what they’re paid. If they did they would not be so sympathetic. Architects can fall out of bed and get thrown $200-300k job offers. Junior testers and developers are getting signed up right out of collage with zero experience and getting 50-80k easily and an easy pathway to six figures if they’re not idiots.

And the smart ones will jump ship to enterprise software and make even more.

Here’s the world’s smallest violin from jigglet.
 
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azertydu91

Hard to Kill
Console War brigading. That is all game awards are for anyhow (besides children who need validation for their purchases).
No I don't think so, it could be an explanation though but I would bet more on short term memory and this is not pejorative or anything , it's just how most human brains works.You just downloaded, played and liked a game , there's a poll about which game you liked the most and since you are still in honeymoon period you vote for the last thing you think of.That's why those award should be done in like june for the previous year.Just to let the honeymoon phase die, if those awards took place during among us hype it would've been that game or fall guys or Rocket league.
Exactly like if you asked me right now what is my favorite restaurant I'd probably pick one I went to in the last few month though objectively there's probably a lot of other places I enjoyed more.Sometime you just need time to know how you truly liked something.

Edit : We should look if there is a correlaion between rank of gaf gotys and release date, I'm sure we'd easily find one.
 
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How did it win goty on gaf tho? That’s real gamers. Or is something shady afoot?

On first glance the package of Infinite for beta and launch felt like a huge return to form for Halo. After dozens of games and weeks you realise how hollow and messed up things are. The honeymoon period gave this enough time for fans to will it to GAF GOTY, I never agreed with that. Then all the other elements start to layer in e.g. progression sucks, matchmaking sucks, maps and vehicles are nowhere near the quality of H2/H3 days etc. The more you play the more you realise your headshot didn't register, you were matched wrong in ranked, you're sick of an AR in an open map like Behemoth. Your friends are complaining about desync, you get stuck after swaps forced to pray to RNG gaming gods that on your 25th game it will be the mode you need to get that armour. You get a big party together and it falls apart night after night due to not being able to join or dropouts or BTB failed to load. You start to read and look for studio communications and time repeats from MCC flashbacks.

You get the idea. The glimmer of that wonderful Halo fun/competitive/wacky sandbox was there, sparkling and bright. The more you play the more you realise the maps how broke the systems and decisions are around that core sandbox affect your enjoyment. The less your friends play and the longer it seems before you could even look to play what you want from this Infinite Halo sandbox.

There is a huge audience there wanting/willing Halo to be great, it was sullen for for long enough, it went dark for long enough and then it showed a great engine trailer and a course correct from gameplay trailer to beta. Launch and post launch is where is went from GOTY in terms of campaign and multi to "what was I thinking" getting sucked into this Halo. Once that initial shine wore off the campaign is hugely less replayable, especially without coop and the multiplayer is lacklustre and not working well. The sum of the missing or broken parts has taken toll on the overall package. The game's random nature isn't fun going into the 100th or 1,000the time playing it where pinnacle games like Halo 2 or Halo 3 remain to this day infinitely more replayable (pun intended).
 

CuNi

Member
I work in this industry and crunch is just part of the game. IT / technology is a project driven industry - lots of peaks and troughs. There are throughs where you’re sitting there surfing the web for months at a time while you wait for the designers to finish. Then the designers will have troughs where they wait weeks or months for the next build. Same with the testers. Same with the architects etc etc. It’s relaxing as fuck, I have time to sit here posting shit half the year. But the trade off is when it comes time to work, yes you can be hit with 12-15 hour days for months on end but that’s just pay back for sitting there posting memes on Neogaf all day. It’s just part and parcel of the way software is made. If these liberals want a strict 9-5 job I’m sorry this isn’t the industry. Go become a doctor. Go become a lawyer. Go work at whatever job. It pisses me off that these newly graduated virtue signalers sign up for this life but go ohhhh no crunch is evil! STFU. Most of us get paid $100-300k a year. Suck it up and earn that money. They pay me so well to do what I do, when they ask me to work overtime or weekends, who the fuck am I to say no? Would I rather work at McDonald’s? Yeah no thanks.

(Not looking down on anyone that works at McDonald’s, I respect anyone that does whatever it takes to put food on the table for their families)
I too work in IT and I honestly cannot confirm anything of what you wrote.
In our company, we are allowed to work whenever we want but not earlier than 6AM and no later than 11PM and as long as we are available for possible team meetings (whenever they are scheduled) we are completely free to decide how we spread out the work thorughout the day.

No one is allowed to take overtime except if it's allowed by the project manager, but we rarely ever need overtime. I think I took less than 20h of overtime in the whole year of 2021. We have both own products we develop and contractual work and neither has ever needed crunch in any shape or form.
I said it once and I will say it again. Crunch is not a necessity as some try to paint it as. Crunch is simply the result of either poor planing, managing or bad communication between sales and development.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
No I don't think so, it could be an explanation though but I would bet more on short term memory and this is not pejorative or anything , it's just how most human brains works.You just downloaded, played and liked a game , there's a poll about which game you liked the most and since you are still in honeymoon period you vote for the last thing you think of.That's why those award should be done in like june for the previous year.Just to let the honeymoon phase die, if those awards took place during among us hype it would've been that game or fall guys or Rocket league.
Exactly like if you asked me right now what is my favorite restaurant I'd probably pick one I went to in the last few month though objectively there's probably a lot of other places I enjoyed more.Sometime you just need time to know how you truly liked something.

Edit : We should look if there is a correlaion between rank of gaf gotys and release date, I'm sure we'd easily find one.

I agree with you to a point, but correlation does not equal causation. Many people on GAF were tearing into Halo Infinite, rightfully, as it was an unfinished and insulting mess of a title. The only people that were defending it were ardent console warriors.

Personally I would rather have a “GAF GotY“ discussion thread, where people discuss what their personal game of the years are. No polls, no lists, no “voting“ on shit. Its fun to have those kinds of conversations, but when people try to push a “site wide” claim, it always boils down to the two types of people I despise.
 

jigglet

Gold Member
In our company, we are allowed to work whenever we want but not earlier than 6AM and no later than 11PM and as long as we are available for possible team meetings (whenever they are scheduled) we are completely free to decide how we spread out the work thorughout the day.

No one is allowed to take overtime except if it's allowed by the project manager, but we rarely ever need overtime. I think I took less than 20h of overtime in the whole year of 2021. We have both own products we develop and contractual work and neither has ever needed crunch in any shape or form.
I said it once and I will say it again. Crunch is not a necessity as some try to paint it as. Crunch is simply the result of either poor planing, managing or bad communication between sales and development.

It seems like you’ve interpreted “overtime” as in paid overtime. I don’t know what it’s like in the US but we don’t do that. It’s “unpaid” here (Australia). Paid overtime is not something that happens here unless you’re a contractor. Contractor rates are insane here, roughly 1.5-2x permanent. I did it for nearly 10 years and made a mint. But permanent gives you holidays, sick leave, career progression etc. Contracting here is great when you’re young or very experienced and can start charging uber high rates (2-2.5k a day).
 
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CuNi

Member
It seems like you’ve interpreted “overtime” as in paid overtime. I don’t know what it’s like in the US but we don’t do that. It’s “unpaid” here (Australia). Paid overtime is not something that happens here unless you’re a contractor. Contractor rates are insane here, roughly 1.5-2x permanent. I did it for nearly 10 years and made a mint. But permanent gives you holidays, sick leave, career progression etc. Contracting here is great when you’re young or very experienced and can start charging uber high rates (2-2.5k a day).

I have the luxury to talk criticaly about issues from the comfort of the EU, which has quite good regulations about work and overtime etc.
Unpaid overtime is, except for extreme exceptions, illegal here. In other situations that are not the exception, you are not even forced to do overtime. You have your work contract that states your weekly amout of hours you have to work and anything above that is not mandatory, and you cannot be fired for not doing overtime.
 

Bar81

Member
Not sure why people are surprised/frustrated unless they actually believed the nonsense MS/343 was putting out and after all the times they've lied, you gotta take some personal responsibility at this point for believing anything coming out of their mouths. After the E3 debacle, the game needed a couple of years of work before it would be ready. Of course, MS went for a half measure and once the graphics were not shit and they had some core gameplay mechanics down, they released a sandbox (which is pretty fun for what it is) without an actual single player campaign a year later (and pretended it was an actual single player campaign). Until fall of this year, don't expect anything near a finished product for this game - don't listen to or believe anything 343 tells you otherwise.
 

ethomaz

Banned
No I don't think so, it could be an explanation though but I would bet more on short term memory and this is not pejorative or anything , it's just how most human brains works.You just downloaded, played and liked a game , there's a poll about which game you liked the most and since you are still in honeymoon period you vote for the last thing you think of.That's why those award should be done in like june for the previous year.Just to let the honeymoon phase die, if those awards took place during among us hype it would've been that game or fall guys or Rocket league.
Exactly like if you asked me right now what is my favorite restaurant I'd probably pick one I went to in the last few month though objectively there's probably a lot of other places I enjoyed more.Sometime you just need time to know how you truly liked something.

Edit : We should look if there is a correlaion between rank of gaf gotys and release date, I'm sure we'd easily find one.
That is why GAF used to redo the GOTY Awards after some time but I don’t remember the results changing a lot for the #1 but the others places have some surprises.

That is how MGS4 won GOTY 2008 in 2009 and GOTY 2008 again in 2011 I believe.

Edit - Found it:


 
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ethomaz

Banned
I work in this industry and crunch is just part of the game. IT / technology is a project driven industry - lots of peaks and troughs. There are throughs where you’re sitting there surfing the web for months at a time while you wait for the designers to finish. Then the designers will have troughs where they wait weeks or months for the next build. Same with the testers. Same with the architects etc etc. It’s relaxing as fuck, I have time to sit here posting shit half the year. But the trade off is when it comes time to work, yes you can be hit with 12-15 hour days for months on end but that’s just pay back for sitting there posting memes on Neogaf all day. It’s just part and parcel of the way software is made. If these liberals want a strict 9-5 job I’m sorry this isn’t the industry. Go become a doctor. Go become a lawyer. Go work at whatever job. It pisses me off that these newly graduated virtue signalers sign up for this life but go ohhhh no crunch is evil! STFU. Most of us get paid $100-300k a year. Suck it up and earn that money. They pay me so well to do what I do, when they ask me to work overtime or weekends, who the fuck am I to say no? Would I rather work at McDonald’s? Yeah no thanks.

(Not looking down on anyone that works at McDonald’s, I respect anyone that does whatever it takes to put food on the table for their families)
I work on TI too.
But I don’t have the same experience.
There is overtime? Yes, but it is communicated with time to you plan and if you decline or already have some compromises they will find another person that can cover that overtime.
Plus the overtime is fully paid by Brasilian’s laws (+50% your hour value… 100% after 10pm or holidays/weekends).
So you won’t be forced or be caught in surprise.

I don’t have that well inactive periods because if my hours are free I start to help others projects… so I have my 40 hours per week full always full filled.

Edit - I forget to say my workload is flexible… so I need to reach 40 hours per week but I can for example do these 40 hours anytime I want unless it is an schedule meeting or something like that has others persons involved… but for example I do personal things at morning and start to work at 1pm and got until 10pm (there is 1 hour for dinner)…. Or work 6 hours today and tomorrow 10 hours… I manage my work schedule and there is no controller (it is a trusting relationship).
 
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CuNi

Member
Also to contribute something to the thread.

I bought this game close to release date on steam for full price. Why? Because, and I said this many times over, I'm a sucker for Halo. Always was and most likely always will. Do I regret spending that money. No. Would I advise anyone to drop 60€ on this game? Hell no.

This is a perfect gamepass game. It baits you with nostalgia, tries to jump on a currently more relevant open world focus for games and, in its core, is a solid shooter.
Its just the execution that lacks... Heavily. There could be many reasons for this. Some argue that old gen holds it back, which maybe is true. Maybe 343i is just a terrible dev. Also a possibility. I don't really know.

I think the issue is, there is no one singular issue with infinite which could be attributed to the current situation but rather dozen of small to medium problems that brought it to where it is now.

Single-player and multiplayer seems to be stuck in a eternal loop where sp only gets releases pushed back constantly and a total silence on possible future updates, which kills confidence in what is supposed to be a live gaas. On the other hand we have mp that also barely had new content and most of it was either a limited event or part of the shop. No one is really happy with where the game is at and I think the lack of communication is adding to the fuel.

I feel like weekly updates, akin to Factorios FFF would help mend some wounds and relieve some of the stress that exists between fans and developers, but I think everyone agrees that they have a long and steep road if they truly want to keep this game relevant short term before we even consider this to be a "10 year game".
 

TheShocker

Member
I just beat the campaign….it’s better than 4/5. But right when the story got good, the game ended. I understand there will likely be story DLC, but that was disappointing.

The real meat and potatoes of why I don’t like this game lies in the bare bones, poor connection, ‘live service’ without the live service multiplayer.

343 stripped out everything that has made halo great over the years and somehow managed to create the best playing core mechanics of halo MP in infinite. And to top it off, they’ve been dead silent to the community and are growing more and more incompetent by the day.

I try to play a couple matches a day but I just feel like this is an awesome playing, but empty soul version of what a halo game is.

I have zero confidence in 343i at this point to fix it.
 

ethomaz

Banned
I too work in IT and I honestly cannot confirm anything of what you wrote.
In our company, we are allowed to work whenever we want but not earlier than 6AM and no later than 11PM and as long as we are available for possible team meetings (whenever they are scheduled) we are completely free to decide how we spread out the work thorughout the day.

No one is allowed to take overtime except if it's allowed by the project manager, but we rarely ever need overtime. I think I took less than 20h of overtime in the whole year of 2021. We have both own products we develop and contractual work and neither has ever needed crunch in any shape or form.
I said it once and I will say it again. Crunch is not a necessity as some try to paint it as. Crunch is simply the result of either poor planing, managing or bad communication between sales and development.
I agree.
I don’t think I did that much hours of overtime in 2021 too… maybe 10-12 hours only… needs to be approved before the execution and the cost go to clients so they don’t like to ask for overtime unless it is really needed.
And it is not by surprise too… it is planed plus you can decline it… it is not forced… and always paid.

BTW overtime by itself doesn’t mean it is crunch work… there are others key points that make it be viewed as crunch like no overtime payment, forced overtime, etc etc etc.
 
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ZehDon

Member
Good, now mock your fans even more like EA and see how it ends up.
They already are starting to. In an update blog post, they made fun of people for pointing out that 343i's paid cosmetics weren't aligned to the player models correctly, sitting askew and looking wrong.
 

jigglet

Gold Member
I have the luxury to talk criticaly about issues from the comfort of the EU, which has quite good regulations about work and overtime etc.
Unpaid overtime is, except for extreme exceptions, illegal here. In other situations that are not the exception, you are not even forced to do overtime. You have your work contract that states your weekly amout of hours you have to work and anything above that is not mandatory, and you cannot be fired for not doing overtime.

Ok yeah things are obviously different there.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Also to contribute something to the thread.

I bought this game close to release date on steam for full price. Why? Because, and I said this many times over, I'm a sucker for Halo. Always was and most likely always will. Do I regret spending that money. No. Would I advise anyone to drop 60€ on this game? Hell no.

This is a perfect gamepass game. It baits you with nostalgia, tries to jump on a currently more relevant open world focus for games and, in its core, is a solid shooter.
Its just the execution that lacks... Heavily. There could be many reasons for this. Some argue that old gen holds it back, which maybe is true. Maybe 343i is just a terrible dev. Also a possibility. I don't really know.

I think the issue is, there is no one singular issue with infinite which could be attributed to the current situation but rather dozen of small to medium problems that brought it to where it is now.

Single-player and multiplayer seems to be stuck in a eternal loop where sp only gets releases pushed back constantly and a total silence on possible future updates, which kills confidence in what is supposed to be a live gaas. On the other hand we have mp that also barely had new content and most of it was either a limited event or part of the shop. No one is really happy with where the game is at and I think the lack of communication is adding to the fuel.

I feel like weekly updates, akin to Factorios FFF would help mend some wounds and relieve some of the stress that exists between fans and developers, but I think everyone agrees that they have a long and steep road if they truly want to keep this game relevant short term before we even consider this to be a "10 year game".
Interesting points.

Can you say the Gamepass model to have affected the decisions behind development of Halo Infinite?
 

ethomaz

Banned
It seems like you’ve interpreted “overtime” as in paid overtime. I don’t know what it’s like in the US but we don’t do that. It’s “unpaid” here (Australia). Paid overtime is not something that happens here unless you’re a contractor. Contractor rates are insane here, roughly 1.5-2x permanent. I did it for nearly 10 years and made a mint. But permanent gives you holidays, sick leave, career progression etc. Contracting here is great when you’re young or very experienced and can start charging uber high rates (2-2.5k a day).
I can talk about Brasil only.

There are companies that forces unpaid overtime or make the employee take free days to compense the overtime.
But that is against the law and so it is made in the dark and the employee most of times enter with work lawsuit when out of the company.
In TI that seems to happen less and less and most if not all big companies not allow overtime that goes against the law.
There are smaller companies that still to it in the Dark but the risk is too big.

I have the luck of always had work in big companies so I never faced that overtime in dark against the law.

There are strong laws about paid overtime here… it can’t be constant because if you do it every month the law makes the company aggregate the overtime payment to your salary… so you start to receive that money even when you don’t do overtime anymore… for example if I receive $10k salary per month plus $3k overtime for 3 consecutive months then my salary start to be $13k and not $10k anymore… this salary is registered every month so the government has this data/tracking.

Of course there are a lot of freelancers or people that doesn’t have a registered salary but i always worked with a full registered salary so I can’t talk about how it works.
 
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It took until mid-February to fix Big Team after breaking it on launch day in December. That was probably my biggest issue with the game, the lack of content this entire time is just twisting the knife.

I still play Infinite, but I'm ready to stop if Season 2 is just more of the same and doesn't improve the overall MP experience.

Halo Infinite dev explains why they won’t be releasing exact remakes of classic maps:
November 2, 2021
"We all know that Halo’s multiplayer is just as important as the campaign, and this time there are plenty of new maps and a new battle pass to get stuck into.

However, devs have explained that they won’t be keeping up the series tradition of releasing exact remakes of classic Halo maps in favor of “spiritual reboots.”

Speaking in a sitdown with IGN, Lead Multiplayer Designer Andrew Witts of 343 Industries said that he and his team have discussed remakes of old maps but want to move away from them with Halo Infinite.

Instead, he said that Infinite’s multiplayer will focus more on subtle callbacks to old maps, rather than being a carbon copy. He mentions that the Big Team Battle Map Fragmentation is influenced by the Valhalla map and its remake Ragnarok."

I can respect that vision they had but based on how things have turned out, I think their stance on adding classic maps should be reevaluated for the sake of adding content when it is desperately needed.
 
This game is already dead, I don’t see anyone on my friends list playing it anymore and the news coverage on it has mostly been negative.

No one is waiting for Halo anymore, they should have had new content ready to go by now. It’s a Live service game, idk what they were thinking ….
 
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OZ9000

Gold Member
It all started with the first flights just being bot testing. That was a big ass red flag in my book and i knew this MP will flop.

The campaign was cool, big improvement over 5 but it was still very lackluster.
The cutscenes got very lazy and samey with this rotation camera style.
No action in this cutscenes, no big wow moments, anything.

Then some stuff was just shown through holograms or explained in audio logs instead of making interesting and cool campaign Missions that will show you this stuff.

The Infinity attack with Atriox could have been the first mission.

The "open world" did not feel like a big ass ring world. This samey biome got boring pretty fast, alongside the copy paste forerunner bases and missions.

With 4+ years of dev time i expected more, way more.
Just wtf is going on in that Studio?
They focussed on hiring for diversity instead of people who know how to make a decent game.
 

Freeman76

Member
The moment I first saw the Prometheans I knew 343 werent the right company to take Halo forward, so I was surprised at how good Infinite is, the campaign is acrually decent, but the fact there is no co op firefight modes is just inexcusable to me. I dont play competitive MP so I dont care about all that side of it, but the fact they didnt even bother with one of the communities favourite modes is beyond a joke. MS need to either hand it over to someone else or bring a competent team in to help 343.
 
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Filben

Member
I concede the multiplayer is fucking boring.

It's not even that I don't need to spend money on it because it's free, I don't want to spend my time on it.

I get that it's not easy to develop a multimillion dollar game but at least the concept should be right because that's what you do at the drawing board. And they really sucked at it.
 

anothertech

Member
They should just give it back to Bungie and release it on playstation. lol

But seriously. I loved the game. Hoped we'd have more single player content by now. And I've been harsh on 343i for a long time now... But seriously WTF. The multiplayer. The shit maps. And nothing all the way to April?

These guys are beyond fucked.
 

OZ9000

Gold Member
More like most of these staff are just woke and idiots the company was forced to hire for diversity and don’t know shit .

It shouldn’t take this for updates that were supposed to be in the fucking game that was supposed to be released 2 years ago .

Don’t blame the community for your and your fellow blue and purple haired idiots the knowledge and understanding of AAA development.

Go make a flappy bird or whatever and stop bitching.
The new AI had such a shit personality too.

'Yes, let's make her super bubbly. All the cool kids will love her'.

I preferred the OG Cortana.

The cutscenes were also shit. Halo 3/4/Reach felt more 'epic'.
 
Nothing you've written addresses anything in my post in a meaningful way.

Halo Infinite's gameplay is solid. Literally every other aspect of the game is questionable at best, hence its failure.
It's not my any measure a failure, its a live service game that unfortunately is taking longer than 343 expected to add meaningful content. Is the game where it needs to be right now of course not. They are working on it they will continue to work on it and eventually they will get there.

Just to say I've put the game away and I am waiting just like everyone else for improvements and more importantly real worthwhile content. It's absolutely not good enough but we all know the terrible development time Infinite had and the team needed a shake up obviously. If its not on track by the end of this year then Spencer should probably make some changes at 343 HQ.
 
They should just give it back to Bungie and release it on playstation. lol

But seriously. I loved the game. Hoped we'd have more single player content by now. And I've been harsh on 343i for a long time now... But seriously WTF. The multiplayer. The shit maps. And nothing all the way to April?

These guys are beyond fucked.
Sorry mate but Bungie are certainly not a team that should be held in such high regard anymore. Are we going to forget many problems Destiny and Destiny 2 had and continue to have? Massive delays on expansions, rehashed old content reused etc.
 
This is actually one of the most ignorant posts ive read on GAF in a while.
Actually he is right, gamepass can drop alot of shit, because they
Sorry mate but Bungie are certainly not a team that should be held in such high regard anymore. Are we going to forget many problems Destiny and Destiny 2 had and continue to have? Massive delays on expansions, rehashed old content reused etc.
Bungie since forever treat their fans like shit, and destiny its not an exeption, lets not forget destiny have shit content for years, like halo infinite
 
God, some of the comments here. I think 343 are due some criticism, but also praise, Infinite's campaign is great, I have played every Halo campaign and think it might be the best. If I had to pick one to play through again today, it'd be that one.

I've been playing Halo online since Halo 2, the first online Halo. Infinite's online is great fun. It plays really well.

Despite this, I haven't played in well over a month and neither have my friends list.

I don't honestly know what 343 are doing. It was pretty obvious that Infinite didn't have enough maps. I don't know what their teams are working on, but I would think that adding another half dozen maps should have been the priority. This is the frustrating part, imo. What are they doing, why does it take so long?

At this point, if they announced another ten maps, battlepass, whatever else, I don't know if it would be enough to get that momentum back, I think it would bring a lot of people back.

However, I reckon they'll probably offer 2 maps and a battlepass full of items that people don't have any enthusiasm for.

I have long defended Halo 5s multiplayer, Halo 4s campaign (really) and thought this was the one where they'd get it all right.

As is, give it to the Doom dev team. 343 move so slowly Id will probably have a game out before 343 even read the email saying they're off the job.
 
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Haggard

Member
They threw out a game where nothing but the (albeit great) core game mechanics was actually finished. A barebones empty copy-paste open world and a content-light multiplayer.
Did anyone actually expect this game to have legs?
I think 343 can be incredibly happy, that people praised the game at all when it came out.
After that they just continued the development hell this game obviously has been in for years.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
They threw out a game where nothing but the (albeit great) core game mechanics was actually finished. A barebones empty copy-paste open world and a content-light multiplayer.
Did anyone actually expect this game to have legs?
I think 343 can be incredibly happy, that people praised the game at all when it came out.
After that they just continued the development hell this game obviously has been in for years.
What was the state of the game when they did the gameplay reveal before the delay? 🤯
 
I feel like we are saying the same thing every year… and yet…
Game needs time to get new content, Infinite came out and was well received mostly, so 1 year to get good and significant new content should be enough time. If they can't do that then I'm all for 343 getting a reshuffle.
 
Game needs time to get new content, Infinite came out and was well received mostly, so 1 year to get good and significant new content should be enough time. If they can't do that then I'm all for 343 getting a reshuffle.
6 years, for 6 fucking years they made a subpar game with no content, all the fps withing 90 days get new maps, weapons and content, 343 for a decade show how incompetent they are, but all they care about its their stupid gender quotas and all that useless shit, halo infinite dont have a single mention of the tv series, but have a women month, thats how their prioritys are in that studio, they need to close up that garbage studio because AGAIN, another halo game is dead
 

Banjo64

Gold Member
Actually, he is not right. If 343 had released this after a 2yr development then he would have a point. He is just trolling

The fact that they needed 6yrs and they are still behind highlights just how fucking useless 343 are. Nothing to do with gamepass.
Not sure how it’s even got to this point considering Halo 4 had a great amount of map variety and Halo 5 was much more feature rich, with game modes like Warzone Firefight.

It’s as if the studio is regressing as time goes on.

The content pipeline is unbelievably poor and has cost them 95% of their player base. I don’t know how this hasn’t got Phil Spencer’s back up. Surely he has asked the 343 hierarchy what the fuck is taking so long? Covid doesn’t cut it when everyone else has adapted just fine.
 

Graciaus

Member
I was out of patience with 343 a very long time ago. 343's resume for me:

  1. Title update for Reach ruining the game
  2. Halo 4 - Garbage
  3. Master Chief Collection - Bought an Xbox just for this and the game didn't work correctly for years
  4. Halo 5 - Garbage
  5. Halo Infinite - Lol

Halo needs a new developer. I don't know how you can take a hit series and make it irrelevant.
 
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