OldJadedGamer
Banned
Yup, if they don't improve their services in PAL then they have lost Europe before they even launch there.
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VGLeaks: Durango GPU detailed
- Thread starter phosphor112
- Start date
Yup, if they don't improve their services in PAL then they have lost Europe before they even launch there.
Uhm... I know this thread is already a bit weird, but wow.
mugurumakensei
Member
They realize that its not feasible. These consoles are likely being produced at 28nm and at least for the foreseeable future 22nm and below seem to cost more due to yield problems. So releasing a 600 dollar money losing behemoth would be terrible business since it would be that price for 6-7 years.
That's my assumption, but then you could have said the same this generation and the best selling franchise has been sub-HD the entire time.
This is why 720p will likely wind up being standard. The average consumer didn't mind CoD's sub-HD res. Bumping everything to a minimum of 720p with less tearing/better IQ will still wow them, and give more system power for the bells and whistles.
what other gen does this remind me of...
Elginer
Member
OK, I agree with you. Now we've we've reached massive wtf levels.
Salacious Crumb
Junior Member
Your link's busted.
Oh I wasn't challenging all your assertions. 3DS for example sells better than PSVita.
Baconsammy
Banned
Do we know that they didn't (and failed)? Maybe Microsoft scanned the landscape, saw one development house after another crashing and burning, saw Wii and Kinect succeed, and decided the focus shouldn't be on expensive games because expensive huge games are dinosaurs. So here's a box with access to tons of services and will also play games in an attractive way. And oh yeah, don't forget to buy an XBL subscription. It's possible that what we believed to be two new next gen consoles similar in power and scope may turn out to be false. Perhaps Microsoft and Sony really are diverging.
Considering most devs build past hardware and downscale to fit - one gets downscaled a bit more than the next to achieve performance parity (framerate locks, AA, etc).
I don't see how scaling back detail in one over another will cost more money. If you can explain this instead of making blanket statements I would appreciate it.
I'm also not talking about multiple engines per hardware kit - I'm strictly talking about overall fidelity. One version of SUPER GAME X will push more detail in models, textures, etc. Doesn't have to be a different engine.
Edit:
I'm genuinely curious about how it will cost more money to downsize on a single platform using the same engine. It's not like engines have a "must be this tall to ride" sign for assets. Things can be scaled back for performance.
they might target 1080p, but there will be 720p games. absolutely. fancy graphical effects and lighting will always be more impressive to the larger audience than native rendering resolution.
AstroNut325
Member
Durango bringing the weak sauce. Orbis will be mine. Durango too... But after I can get it for less than $200 without subscription.
And apps and services don't mean much when it comes to MS. They will simply put those apps and services behind a pay wall.
And apps and services don't mean much when it comes to MS. They will simply put those apps and services behind a pay wall.
Top brass has changed a bit in 5 years.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Since I have to spell it out.
You responding "buh buh look at move it sucked" in response to a comment about how impressed people are gonna be with PS4s next gen graphics is such a blatant and obvious example of a basic strawman. It baffled me that you would deny it whilst trying to maintain that you know what it means.
I won't even comment on the rest of your drivel filled rant.
You don't spend a lot of time around the PC crowd do you? There's some in the last of us thread saying how ugly it is. They're notorious for being like that.
Personally even though I am a PC gamer I'm apparently really easy to please with graphics. I still think Watch Dogs is currently the most impressive next gen game I've seen because of the detail in it that wasn't in 1313, assuming the demo wasn't faked like Far Cry 3.
1st Course
Member
I don't know how anyone can be happy with the specs in the OP to be honest, when the 360 launched it had a better GPU than any PC GPU back then, if the rumors are true this time it (next xbox) will feature a GPU that is barley comparable to a mid-range PC GPU.
gollumsluvslave
Member
Hehehe!
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Oh dear...
Baconsammy
Banned
It's called an example. I know you desperately want my example to be a strawman, but it isn't. Someone stated that once people see the specs, the battle is essentially over. That is dumb. Dumb beyond words. Especially given the history of Move, Kinect, Vita, Wii, 3DS. The general public don't care. Nor should they.
I don't know, man.. With this specs, it sure feels like MS will bet on upscale and public ignorance to market "1080p games".
In motion? Well yeah.
Having said that, there are games such as silent hill 2 [ or am I thinking of 3?] that tend to surprise, graphically, long after generations are over.
Not sure if serious.
As a PC/Console gamer I get impressed by both, truthfully. Some console games blow me away even though I can throw down BF3/Ultra/60.
Then again I must be easy to please, like you. Fine by me
mugurumakensei
Member
Eh relative to each other, Orbis does have the better specs but I wouldnt call Durango weak sauce compared to Orbis. We've just entered a stage where the best performance is hard to shrink down without being costly. Maybe in 10 years when stacking and sub 22nm yields can finally be mass produced reliably.
Edit: and i say this even as someone who will not buy durango but will buy orbis. Sony and Nintendo fullfill my console and handheld needs (Japanese games). MS does not. PC fulfills my western game needs.
I didn't say this. You saw it because you wanted me to say that. You seem to have a habit of twisting my comments in these Xbox threads.
I quoted someone who was basically downplaying a spec advantage by saying "jaws will drop regardless", which may be true, but to say that a noticeable advantage won't provide a noticeable difference from the 1st parties is ridiculous.
Again, and I feel like I have to keep saying this to people in Xbox threads, sales were not a part of that discussion.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
The point being, the overwhelming majority of the gaming public does not care about spec sheets. If MS and Sony release games that look like a generational leap above the 360 and PS3 then those consumers will be very happy with the systems.
The posting of PC screens in comparison to screens from the "underpowered" systems doesnt matter because those people dont look for PC screens or even care about them.
Baconsammy
Banned
They can bet on that all they want, but if they're going services-focused, they have to realize that Sony is not a threat. Apple is. And Apple will handily crush them if they're not offering something completely spectacular that Apple can't. And in doing so they'll lose core gamers to Sony, and services to Apple. Hard to imagine they'd be that stupid, but after the PS3/Vita/Wii U/Zune/Vista/Kin decision making, it's hard to put anything past any company.
I see, one fits in the pocket while the other one doesn't.
If I'm not mistaken then the Durango GPU looks like an AMD 7700 series and the Orbis like an AMD 7800 series. If so then the difference is pretty big as an 7850 has twice the FPS as a 7770. (both use GDDR5, but the 7700 series have 72MB/s bandwith while the 7800 series have 153.6 because of a bigger bus and higher clock speed)
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I'm sure the tech is there but I kinda see what he mean, Samaritan doesn't look that much better
Just because it support it doesn't mean it will have power to do that. Same as Gforce FX5xxx series of GPU which were DX9 compatible. Most of they were just shit in doing DX9 games.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Does anyone even use Apple tv? Ive never seen one outside of a Best Buy.
I think a lot of people are really underestimating what this console will be capable of, and are simply looking for numbers which they think they can easily compare. I'm no tech guy, but just looking at the diagrams and reading the article, Durango seems more heavily designed around caches/low latencies (read: really fast local processing) than I imagined. That's not something to take lightly.
(This is a similar kind of design philosophy Nintendo used with GameCube - that allow such a modest console to pull of some incredible feats - but obviously on a much larger scale now)
People seem to be insisting that Orbis will simply be unmatched by Durango every step of the way, but I'm predicting a much more heated contest than that. Also, given how much more mature the Durango's toolset is expected to be, out of the gate - with MS's ownership of DirectX API and all - I wouldn't even be surprised if Durango shows up at E3 with arguably better looking games. If that happens, just remember, you heard it here first! ;p
(This is a similar kind of design philosophy Nintendo used with GameCube - that allow such a modest console to pull of some incredible feats - but obviously on a much larger scale now)
People seem to be insisting that Orbis will simply be unmatched by Durango every step of the way, but I'm predicting a much more heated contest than that. Also, given how much more mature the Durango's toolset is expected to be, out of the gate - with MS's ownership of DirectX API and all - I wouldn't even be surprised if Durango shows up at E3 with arguably better looking games. If that happens, just remember, you heard it here first! ;p
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
grimshawish
Banned
Surely they've noticed Kinect has basically...died?
They are diverging though; you are right. Am not sure why people were denying it just a month or so ago; there is a difference in what their planning to sell.
We'll see how MS plan to stand out in time.
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
It was shown several times running real time on PS3. Youtube it.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Again it's not about how much people expect individually, you don't have to go the subjective route to assess (heh, butts) a piece of hardware..
But when making an informed purchase you compare the value presented to what is available right now, not what was available 8 years ago.
I'm talking about price/performance, features and how technologically impressive something is.
When sony or ms go 'here is a 7770 equivalent gpu in a 499 euro box' (arbitrary numbers for arguments sake) you don't go my that is a step up from an xbox 360 take my money...
I'm sure stockholders would love you for this attitude and logic though, dang
Fact remains that it is 2013, a close equivalent both in performance and architecture to a 65W gpu (taking the 7970m orbis is supposed to be based on and ignoring that the orbis gpu is cut and downclocked for argument's sake) with 256bit bus is not cutting edge nor high end nor expensive.
Can you be happy with it? of course! but it is what it is (and the smart consumer will keep that in mind when they decide what they will pay for it)
Then when you compare the durango gpu to it you can still think it's enough for you, but you don't go rationalise that opinion by claiming it's great because it's a significant step up from xbox 360.
It still very much is what it is.
If people proclaim dissapointment or a neutral stance you don't counter with 'but it's still better than xbox 360/ps3
Imo informed purchases make for happy consumers and less buyer's remorse and less fanboy crap in general.
I'm already awaiting the trolls who will go red mist mode and divert with a 'well what were you expecting a 300W gpu in a console'
that is for another thread.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
What game is that anyways?
AstroNut325
Member
Can you elaborate on the gameplay mechanics and control scheme of Samaritan?
THE:MILKMAN
Member
He has better durango sources?
Early leaks of orbis are in the same ball park as now. They even said the same codename. Liverpool. And mentioned the proposed move from 2gb to 4gb.
I think Amd pushed for 8 core jaguar over quad core steamroller though.
note: sweetvar seemed to imply more resources going with Microsoft. And iirc correctly, even gaf verified devs called x3 'beastly.' So did ex game reviewers.
Well Gaf mods have "backed" VGLeaks afaik and if they both have the same docs.... And aegies also said the IGN story about Durango having HD6670 was true but for Orbis instead.
I haven't seen any evidence of Orbis aiming for, or a dev kit sporting, a HD6670 anywhere else correct me if I'm wrong.
Jaguar to Steamroller cores was a sideways move possibly because Steamroller wasn't ready? And the 2>4GB move was always an aim.
I haven't seen any other evidence of a spec bump.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Baconsammy
Banned
I do, but all I use it for is streaming from my Mac/iPad to my stereo system(TV). As a media player, it's incredibly deficient. Rumors point to them aiming much higher with their next device.
God I hope so.
I'm sure the tech is there but I kinda see what he mean, Samaritan doesn't look that much better
plus the fact that Samaritan is not going to be running at anywhere close to 1080p on these consoles and nowhere near close to 60fps either.
It just becomes that much less impressive when you realize that the jump doesn't look that significant and there won't even be a jump at all in terms of fps/resolution compared to current gen games.
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
I can elaborate on what Samaritan renders and the level of control? There have actually been free roaming Samaritan demo's. Versus.. a face. Veeeeery impressive.
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