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Vgtech's Assassin's Creed Valhalla Comparison PS5 vs XSX

I’m sorry but if you think a remaster of a almost 12 year old game is a great example of next gen then we’re done here. Unless of course you think that next gen just means updated graphics lol.

There’s not a single “next gen” game yet. Literally everything on both consoles is cross generation and/or multiplatform game, and a remaster of a 12 year old game with the same gameplay and design.

What exactly is next gen about demons souls? Personally I’d put any of the games with 120fps or ray tracing as better examples of next gen than it.

This guy is a known troll, his just salty xsx is not as powerful as he wanted lol dont know why u guys are replying to him lol. He says DS looks bad lol, its best looking next gen game by a mile so far.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I’m sorry but if you think a remaster of a almost 12 year old game is a great example of next gen then we’re done here. Unless of course you think that next gen just means updated graphics lol.

There’s not a single “next gen” game yet. Literally everything on both consoles is cross generation and/or multiplatform game, and a remaster of a 12 year old game with the same gameplay and design.

What exactly is next gen about demons souls? Personally I’d put any of the games with 120fps or ray tracing as better examples of next gen than it.
giphy.gif
 
You've got an Assassin's Creed game which has never been the benchmark of competent and performative development, and then you have a typical Japanese game which comes with the usual host of questionable optimization and odd performative targets and resolutions. These are not the kind of games you want to fall on your sword over. These are not the kind of developers you want to bank on properly leveraging or making effective use of hardware.

People like to jump the gun, there's stark differences in the hardware in these systems and as usual computational differences will make themselves known to great effect. It's not a question of if, it's a question of which game will begin the steady stream of divergences.

EbazmTq.gif
 

JTCx

Member
Were “we”? I certainly wasn’t. Find me a single post of mine where I even mentioned assassins creed is going to prove the superiority of the Xbox. Go on, my post history is an open book. If you’re going to make that accusation you better back it up, which should be easy since you already apparently have my post where I said it :)

“Put up or shut up” I believe the saying is. I’ve never said anything remotely like that.
You know what you said :messenger_sunglasses::messenger_ok:
 

pratyush

Member
It's early days and it won't matter much as we move forward. Both consoles are equally good and have advantages and disadvantages which will balance the field.

But man it feels so good to finally shut up morons who were shouting from rooftops about Tflops without even understanding what it means.
 
I looked at the numbers and I was like "whaaat," I just read the summary. The numbers flew over my head, it seems amazingly detailed. A lot of work seems to have gone into this, great work!
 

cryptoadam

Banned
So far they both seem pretty close to each other. Both cost the same amount of money so having pretty much equal performance is expected.

At the end it comes down to the eco system and controller. And guess what in 2 years we gonna get the pro versions anyways LOL.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
while it’s still early days, have you reversed your opinion on how Sony and Cerny architected their console?

it’s performing better than a console with 2TF more and also more memory bandwidth

the gap was never huge but a lot of people shrugged off the idea that higher clocks, SSD speeds, and other efficiency improvements throughout the console would be a more meaningful difference at less of a cost

Never doubt Cerny lol. I agree the rollout of info was maddening as a hardcore fan but the results so far speak for themselves
Not really. I mean I still think had they gone for a $499 price tag, they couldve easily hit our dream 14 tflops target.

That said, it seems the xsx is running into some kind of bottleneck here with extra CUs. AMD is using infinity cache in its rdna 2.0 GPUs with higher CUs to try and get more performance out of them whereas MS simply added more CUs just to hit the 12 tflops number. So i suspect they are hitting into the same limitations the Vega cards ran into at the end of the GCN era. Maybe Sony knew about this and decided it wasnt worth the extra cost in silicon?

I still think more tflops is better. There is a bottleneck in the PS5 somewhere because Spiderman isnt able to run at 1440p 60 fps with ray tracing. Demon Souls is 1440p 60 fps without ray tracing and watch dogs doesnt have a 60 fps mode either. maybe more tflops wouldve helped them push more pixels with ray tracing on? hard to say looking at how much the xsx is struggling but I suspect their APIs are shit at the moment. the console isnt really poorly engineered like the x1 was.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Not really. I mean I still think had they gone for a $499 price tag, they couldve easily hit our dream 14 tflops target.

That said, it seems the xsx is running into some kind of bottleneck here with extra CUs. AMD is using infinity cache in its rdna 2.0 GPUs with higher CUs to try and get more performance out of them whereas MS simply added more CUs just to hit the 12 tflops number. So i suspect they are hitting into the same limitations the Vega cards ran into at the end of the GCN era. Maybe Sony knew about this and decided it wasnt worth the extra cost in silicon?

I still think more tflops is better. There is a bottleneck in the PS5 somewhere because Spiderman isnt able to run at 1440p 60 fps with ray tracing. Demon Souls is 1440p 60 fps without ray tracing and watch dogs doesnt have a 60 fps mode either. maybe more tflops wouldve helped them push more pixels with ray tracing on? hard to say looking at how much the xsx is struggling but I suspect their APIs are shit at the moment. the console isnt really poorly engineered like the x1 was.

Bluepoint went on record saying it was manpower for no RT, and didn’t want to take people away from the core rasterization experience, FWIW.

These consoles won’t be RT powerhouses, but with creative usage and tricks they will still shine. Maybe Pro revisions will have a boost on the RT spectrum.
 
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killatopak

Gold Member
So far they both seem pretty close to each other. Both cost the same amount of money so having pretty much equal performance is expected.

At the end it comes down to the eco system and controller. And guess what in 2 years we gonna get the pro versions anyways LOL.

When I preordered my XSX I was kinda hoping for an immediate advantage until the Pro versions. Reason being I kinda bet the PS5 Pro will be a lot better than Xbox Series Double X. Simple reason being you can always increase TF, Bandwidth and storage space but Xbox will be stuck on a slower SSD due to compatibility with the base versions and proprietary expansions.

So far it will be my Gamepass and Bethesda machine. I’m still kinda waiting but it will probably be my main BC machine if the BC comparisons still favor it.
 

Md Ray

Member
Assasins have always been CPU bottlenecked games. That explains why there is a graphics parity.Qq
Don't expect massive resolution differential like it was on the One X and Pro going forward. There will be titles where the PS5 will outperform SX, like this one. TF, again, isn't the only metric to judge a GPU's perf.
 
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Md Ray

Member
Not really. I mean I still think had they gone for a $499 price tag, they couldve easily hit our dream 14 tflops target.

That said, it seems the xsx is running into some kind of bottleneck here with extra CUs. AMD is using infinity cache in its rdna 2.0 GPUs with higher CUs to try and get more performance out of them whereas MS simply added more CUs just to hit the 12 tflops number. So i suspect they are hitting into the same limitations the Vega cards ran into at the end of the GCN era. Maybe Sony knew about this and decided it wasnt worth the extra cost in silicon?

I still think more tflops is better. There is a bottleneck in the PS5 somewhere because Spiderman isnt able to run at 1440p 60 fps with ray tracing. Demon Souls is 1440p 60 fps without ray tracing and watch dogs doesnt have a 60 fps mode either. maybe more tflops wouldve helped them push more pixels with ray tracing on? hard to say looking at how much the xsx is struggling but I suspect their APIs are shit at the moment. the console isnt really poorly engineered like the x1 was.
Spider-Man is native 4K, 30fps with RT. And dynamic 4K, 60fps with RT reflections off.
 
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Yet the PS5 has better framerate performance with either the same or some instances better resolution.

They both average 60fps my dude, and have roughly the same resolution for that matter. The Series X version has more screen tearing and that's the only real substantial difference.

Way too many people rushing to write off an entire generation based on the wash of a comparison we see here.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
They both average 60fps my dude, and have roughly the same resolution for that matter. The Series X version has more screen tearing and that's the only real substantial difference.

Way too many people rushing to write off an entire generation based on the wash of a comparison we see here.

The stats are in this damn thread in the OP.
 

TJC

Member
Xbox is using GPU is built of CDNA listen to Moore's lore is dead he's been saying this for month's. MS went that way as it's best for servers and eventually it will be the main xcloud option.
 
The stats are in this damn thread in the OP.

And both consoles average 60fps.

This was the same in NXGamer's analysis, and other frame rate tests have found similar. There is no "better" frame rate version, they both dip on occasion, but largely they sit at 60fps.

But do continue to act like 0.1 percentiles matter.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
When someone asked about a 1080p/60 with RT on Twitter, Insomniac responded with “🤔

So maybe a patch down the road? Insomniac seems to be good like that.
but i dont want a 1080p 60 fps mode for RT. thats way too low. any game thats running at native 4k 30 fps should be able to do 1440p 60 fps with or without ray tracing. the fact that the ps5 is having issues with that is my issue with going with Cerny going with a smaller gpu.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
And both consoles average 60fps.

This was the same in NXGamer's analysis, and other frame rate tests have found similar. There is no "better" frame rate version, they both dip on occasion, but largely they sit at 60fps.

But do continue to act like 0.1 percentiles matter.

Okay, ignore the evidence in the OP to my theory. This is a tech comparison discussion after all.

Not knocking either one, so no need to play obtuse and handwave the nitty gritty these threads are known for. MS will be okay.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
but i dont want a 1080p 60 fps mode for RT. thats way too low. any game thats running at native 4k 30 fps should be able to do 1440p 60 fps with or without ray tracing. the fact that the ps5 is having issues with that is my issue with going with Cerny going with a smaller gpu.

That doesn’t mean it will be that exact resolution, but they acknowledged the desire for a 60/RT mode by the fanbase. So who knows, maybe 1440p, maybe even higher with dynamic and temporal they have a good grasp on from the gen prior.
 
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Vick

Gold Member
They both average 60fps my dude, and have roughly the same resolution for that matter. The Series X version has more screen tearing and that's the only real substantial difference.
The most substantial difference is SX struggling during crowded scenes while PS5 remains locked in the same instances.

acv-ps5vsxsxvsxss.png


Marginal difference for sure, but in the DMC Thread you laughed at a user suggesting PS5 might indeed be the better engineered console (like developers were saying for almost a year), have you changed your mind on that?
 
The most substantial difference is SX struggling during crowded scenes while PS5 remains locked in the same instances.

acv-ps5vsxsxvsxss.png


Marginal difference for sure, but in the DMC Thread you laughed at a user suggesting PS5 might indeed be the better engineered console (like developers were saying for almost a year), have you changed your mind on that?

They both absolutely average 60fps, it's in the OP. It was the conclusion to NXGamer's analysis too


gk6YVtI.jpg



I can post screenshots of singular frame dips from PS5 but it means nothing, they all drop frames but the average is still 60fps.

The situations in which both versions drop frames vary, but they both do and they both sit at 60fps enough that it makes up for that.

Marginal difference for sure, but in the DMC Thread you laughed at a user suggesting PS5 might indeed be the better engineered console (like developers were saying for almost a year), have you changed your mind on that?

Gonna need receipts for that.

Developers finding it easier to develop for the PS5 is one thing, as Xbox changed its GDK and PlayStation didn't - largely being the same to develop for as the PS4 but with vastly increased headroom. But developers saying it's a "better engineered console" than Series X is another statement entirely.

I really hope you're not talking about Matt from Reeee.

As for my opinion, I think the PS5 is a great piece of kit that punches above it's weight, but it's early doors. Pushing parity in two early cross-gen games isn't indicative of anything, even if I personally believe we'll see parity for a while.
 
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Md Ray

Member
And both consoles average 60fps.

This was the same in NXGamer's analysis, and other frame rate tests have found similar. There is no "better" frame rate version, they both dip on occasion, but largely they sit at 60fps.

But do continue to act like 0.1 percentiles matter.
VG Tech went a bit further into the game and the difference is, PS5 holds 60fps near 100% of the time whereas SX holds it less than 90% of the time. It's less consistent than PS5 at roughly identical resolution and identical visuals.
 
They both absolutely average 60fps, it's in the OP. It was the conclusion to NXGamer's analysis too


gk6YVtI.jpg



I can post screenshots of singular frame dips from PS5 but it means nothing, they all drop frames but the average is still 60fps.

The situations in which both versions drop frames vary, but they both do and they both sit at 60fps enough that it makes up for that.



Gonna need receipts for that.

Developers finding it easier to develop for the PS5 is one thing, as Xbox changed its GDK and PlayStation didn't - largely being the same to develop for as the PS4 but with vastly increased headroom. But developers saying it's a "better engineered console" than Series X is another statement entirely.

I really hope you're not talking about Matt from Reeee.

As for my opinion, I think the PS5 is a great piece of kit that punches above it's weight, but it's early doors. Pushing parity in two early cross-gen games isn't indicative of anything, even if I personally believe we'll see parity for a while.


There were just some rumors of some insiders, who said that PS5 is so easy to develop for. But no names, nothing, we don’t know who exactly said that. Could be only first party devs. Who knows?



Going forward I can totally see XS being easier to develop for, since it supports all RDNA 2.0 features and DX12 ultimate, since most Devs develop for PC and console it will be way easier for them to do this.

But for that the SDK etc. must be finished before the games are released.
 
Not really. I mean I still think had they gone for a $499 price tag, they couldve easily hit our dream 14 tflops target.

That said, it seems the xsx is running into some kind of bottleneck here with extra CUs. AMD is using infinity cache in its rdna 2.0 GPUs with higher CUs to try and get more performance out of them whereas MS simply added more CUs just to hit the 12 tflops number. So i suspect they are hitting into the same limitations the Vega cards ran into at the end of the GCN era. Maybe Sony knew about this and decided it wasnt worth the extra cost in silicon?

I still think more tflops is better. There is a bottleneck in the PS5 somewhere because Spiderman isnt able to run at 1440p 60 fps with ray tracing. Demon Souls is 1440p 60 fps without ray tracing and watch dogs doesnt have a 60 fps mode either. maybe more tflops wouldve helped them push more pixels with ray tracing on? hard to say looking at how much the xsx is struggling but I suspect their APIs are shit at the moment. the console isnt really poorly engineered like the x1 was.

60fps and ray tracing is incredibly demanding, that was never a reasonable expectation going into this gen lol

a 14 TF console would increase the power and cooling, increase the chip size, increase the memory bandwidth required and possible total RAM size, and maybe even drive you into an infinity cache design

that’s not a 499 console, that’s 599. Neither company was willing to go there

TFs clearly aren’t the end all be all
 
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Vick

Gold Member
I can post screenshots of singular frame dips from PS5 but it means nothing, they all drop frames but the average is still 60fps.

The situations in which both versions drop frames vary, but they both do and they both sit at 60fps enough that it makes up for that.
Well that's not really correct, as today's analysis suggest, and as we've seen there's CPU bound instances in which only XS drops, and for a consistent amount of time.

Gonna need receipts for that.

Developers finding it easier to develop for the PS5 is one thing, as Xbox changed its GDK and PlayStation didn't - largely being the same to develop for as the PS4 but with vastly increased headroom. But developers saying it's a "better engineered console" than Series X is another statement entirely.

I really hope you're not talking about Matt from Reeee.
What's wrong with Hargett now? He just proved being 100% right all along and writing "from Reeee" will not undermine his knowledge i'm afraid.

1-day.jpg


Now want to downplay even one of the most knowledgeable individuals who ever worked on a console (responsible for what's imo the best looking game ever)?

There are plenty examples.




Pushing parity in two early cross-gen games isn't indicative of anything, even if I personally believe we'll see parity for a while.
Sorry maybe i'm reading this wrong, but are you suggesting developers are intentionally downgrading their games on Xbox?
 

Dogman

Member
You've got an Assassin's Creed game which has never been the benchmark of competent and performative development, and then you have a typical Japanese game which comes with the usual host of questionable optimization and odd performative targets and resolutions. These are not the kind of games you want to fall on your sword over. These are not the kind of developers you want to bank on properly leveraging or making effective use of hardware.

People like to jump the gun, there's stark differences in the hardware in these systems and as usual computational differences will make themselves known to great effect. It's not a question of if, it's a question of which game will begin the steady stream of divergences.

EbazmTq.gif
Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. You're literally waiting for the perfect game to come along to fit your narrative.

You'll just have to keep waiting
 
Well that's not really correct, as today's analysis suggest, and as we've seen there's CPU bound instances in which only XS drops, and for a consistent amount of time.

It's in the OP of this thread too, right under statistics. You do know what average frame rates are, yes?


What's wrong with Hargett now? He just proved being 100% right all along and writing "from Reeee" will not undermine his knowledge i'm afraid.

lol no way, you were talking about Tales from my Ass Matt? Dude isn't a dev, at absolute most he's a janitor at a studio and he's gotten just as much wrong as right, if not moreso, in the past.

And yes, posting on Reee makes me question anyone's sanity, if we're being honest. Place is downright delusional.

1-day.jpg


Now want to downplay even one of the most knowledgeable individuals who ever worked on a console (responsible for what's imo the best looking game ever)?

Sorry, I asked for receipts on the statement "PS5 is a better engineered console than the Xbox Series X", I'm not seeing that here.

PS5 is a well engineered console, despite its bulk, and nobody is denying that. I don't expect Pessino to make statements about Xbox as he's never developed for one. He's a PlayStation developer, a second party man, it's Obama giving Obama a medal.

There are plenty examples.




Had a read through these, nowhere does it state that the PS5 is a better engineered console than the Xbox Series X. The PS5 is to be praised for it's architecture being so development friendly, but that's a different statement entirely.


Sorry maybe i'm reading this wrong, but are you suggesting developers are intentionally downgrading their games on Xbox?

You're reading it wrong.

This game is releasing on almost 10 different platforms and isn't particularly optimised on any of them. I think the PS5 could do better here too, they don't even seem to have employed it's SSD I/O to it's fullest, as load times are similar with Series S/X.

Parity is easier because the consoles are so close, so devs will aim for it. There will be instances where one or the other is a hairsbreadth ahead, like Series X in DMC5SE, or PS5 here in Valhalla, but it's a wash. It's ultimately close enough to be parity in both cases. That doesn't mean either console has it's version optimised, but it's good enough.
 
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kyoji

Member
Never thought any different. It's obvious to any objective thinker that this comparison proves very little other than what we already knew. Multiplatfom games will be largely identical.
lol so much back tracking with this statement. Ive been reading for weeks from you and your laughing emoji buddys on here how series x was just going to over power ps5 , people came with logical information into threads and all you guys wanted to do was laugh. And now that the real world results has hit and not this paper spec shit, you and the brigade are already making excuses. You def. were not saying multi plats would be identical, or close. you aint fooling no one man gtfoh.
 

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
lol so much back tracking with this statement. Ive been reading for weeks from you and your laughing emoji buddys on here how series x was just going to over power ps5 , people came with logical information into threads and all you guys wanted to do was laugh. And now that the real world results has hit and not this paper spec shit, you and the brigade are already making excuses. You def. were not saying multi plats would be identical, or close. you aint fooling no one man gtfoh.
Receipts?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Saw this coming a mile away and called it a few weeks back, this will be the new excuse or alibi for if ps5 achieves parity with multiplats or is better. "the tool set isnt ready , its was rushed, theyre still working on it" etc... lol pathetic excuse really.

All while pretending only one will improve their toolsets and pipelines, the other will stay stagnant from launch, what you see now is what you will only
get.
:pie_invert:
 

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Saw this coming a mile away and called it a few weeks back, this will be the new excuse or alibi for if ps5 achieves parity with multiplats or is better. "the tool set isnt ready , its was rushed, theyre still working on it" etc... lol pathetic excuse really.
Still waiting on those receipts. You seem very triggered, are you okay?
 

Vick

Gold Member
It's in the OP of this thread too, right under statistics. You do know what average frame rates are, yes?
I do, and i see a difference. You don't?

lol no way, you were talking about Tales from my Ass Matt? Dude isn't a dev, at absolute most he's a janitor at a studio and he's gotten just as much wrong as right, if not moreso, in the past.
It's the only Matt i recall saying that, so who you were referring to?

And yes, posting on Reee makes me question anyone's sanity, if we're being honest. Place is downright delusional.
Guess it's one of the few things we can agree on.

Sorry, I asked for receipts on the statement "PS5 is a better engineered console than the Xbox Series X", I'm not seeing that here.
I think it's obviously implied though, no?

I don't expect Pessino to make statements about Xbox as he's never developed for one. He's a PlayStation developer, a second party man, it's Obama giving Obama a medal.
He wasn't working for Sony when he tweeted that, and he didn't developed for a PS5 either, so what's the point?

You're reading it wrong.

This game is releasing on almost 10 different platforms and isn't particularly optimised on any of them. I think the PS5 could do better here too, they don't even seem to have employed it's SSD I/O to it's fullest, as load times are similar with Series S/X.

Parity is easier because the consoles are so close, so devs will aim for it. There will be instances where one or the other is a hairsbreadth ahead, like Series X in DMC5SE, or PS5 here in Valhalla, but it's a wash. It's ultimately close enough to be parity in both cases. That doesn't mean either console has it's version optimised, but it's good enough.
Oh ok, we can agree here.

Still waiting on those receipts. You seem very triggered, are you okay?
Dude, i'm constantly getting notifications about your "empathy" left under all my messages. Sounds like you're really not in a good position to ask others if they're triggered.
 

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I do, and i see a difference. You don't?


It's the only Matt i recall saying that, so who you were referring to?


Guess it's one of the few things we can agree on.


I think it's obviously implied though, no?


He wasn't working for Sony when he tweeted that, and he didn't developed for a PS5 either, so what's the point?


Oh ok, we can agree here.


Dude, i'm constantly getting notifications about your "empathy" left under all my messages. Sounds like you're really not in a good position to ask others if they're triggered.
I have empathy for you as you are clearly emotionally disabled. Why are you responding to me anyway, when I didn't even quote you?
 
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Outrunner

Member
I’m sorry but if you think a remaster of a almost 12 year old game is a great example of next gen then we’re done here. Unless of course you think that next gen just means updated graphics lol.

There’s not a single “next gen” game yet. Literally everything on both consoles is cross generation and/or multiplatform game, and a remaster of a 12 year old game with the same gameplay and design.

What exactly is next gen about demons souls? Personally I’d put any of the games with 120fps or ray tracing as better examples of next gen than it.

Stop being ridiculous for fucks sake. You are making yourself look like a clown. 🤡
 
Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. You're literally waiting for the perfect game to come along to fit your narrative.

You'll just have to keep waiting
lmao, it's not an unknown, and it's not waiting for the perfect game. It's waiting for the inevitable succession from better and more evolved development teams.

These architectures are not a mystery, how they function are not questionable. Better is better, and it will be reflected in game code.
 
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