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[The Gorby Congressmanz]

Firstly, you example isn't less than 2 years. Virtua Fighter 3 released July of 1996, whereas Grand Prix Legends was October of 1998.

Secondly, crush Model 3? lol... It looks ridiculously basic compared to an equivalent Model 3 racer from two years prior.

Like... seriously?



Then show it looking better then. How hard can this be?

I think you have to be a crazy fanboy to think Scud Race looks better than GPL, and i though everyone would at least admit THAT. So it seems we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Spladam]

Did you look at my above post at all with the gif?

No, your gif was not up when I started typing that.
Also, lol.

Dude, I had GP legends and Power F1, and you were SUPER LUCKY if you had a machine that could run that at 30fps. I have some fond memories of racing that Type 49 on Monza, trying to beat Jim Clark's record time in that car.

But no dude, that game was the apex of PC gaming at the time and did not touch the model 3 graphics. Also, it was released in 98.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

I think you have to be a crazy fanboy to think Scud Race looks better than GPL, and i though everyone would at least admit THAT. So it seems we will have to agree to disagree.

Why are you making me do this. I love Papyrus' games.

Back on-topic, (I will just ignore TheGorby from now on), it's kind of sad Sega never made a Virtua Racing game for Model 3.

 

[deadscreensky]

Did you look at my above post at all with the gif?

Grand Prix Legends has a hard cap of 36fps. It runs about half the speed of Model 3 games like Scud Race. (Fans later patched it, but we're talking 1998.) So no, it didn't offer anything approaching the smoothness of 1996 racing titles. It literally could not.

I'm really curious what sort of games you feel were on par or only a small step down from VF3 in 1996. I gamed on all major platforms at that time, and I certainly never saw that. Quake's visuals did some amazing things with lightmaps, but when it comes to model detail, framerate, or even just large environments it's not even close. We really need some examples to take your argument seriously.

Just stop and use some logic for a bit. Something like Model 3 was designed almost top to bottom to play videogames. That's what the hardware was entirely dedicated to doing, and very little expense was spared. The software was written completely for the hardware's capabilities. Suggesting games written to run on mass market PC hardware of that day were on par is silly.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

You really need to watch some Scud Race footage.

There is no pop-up. Polygon count is much higher. It runs at 60fps.

Yes I've played and seen scud race at through the arcade. GPL is more impressive. Scud Race only has like 4 tracks and theres' tons of flat and bland textures in the backgrounds and objects.

But anyway we seem to not be getting anywhere so I'll let you guys continue with VF3.

Speaking of which odd how the Dreamcast port is so poor.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

Why are you making me do this. I love Papyrus' games.

I posted a gif showing graphics, you intentionally post a crap picture at a bad anagle? I can do that with Noami games to thats kind of shitty dude.

Well I see that the fans are loose so I definitely know this conversations not going anywhere. Well please excuse me and continue with the original topic.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

Grand Prix Legends has a hard cap of 36fps. It runs about half the speed of Model 3 games like Scud Race.

Which was done ON PURPOSE, read up on the game.

This will be the last I talk about it, already we have people posting bad pictures, so clearly you guys aren't interested in anything even looking decent outside model 3.

 

[nkarafo]

Yes I've played and seen scud race at through the arcade. GPL is more impressive. Scud Race only has like 4 tracks and theres' tons of flat and bland textures in the backgrounds and objects.

What does that have to do with anything?

Also, what? Backgrounds use a ton more polygons compared to GP...

GP uses a more realistic looking color palette and lighting to make it look more photo-realistic. But that's just art direction. That's what you like more. Scud Race is definitely much more busy and demanding than this. I mean, the pop-up alone and the simpler backgrounds in GP are so obvious. And you also have to take into account the performance (60fps) which was one of the things that made arcades stand out.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

I will refresh this thread and get it back on topic by making this statement:

Odd how the Dreamcast port of VF3 is so bad, I wonder what happened? Anyone know?

 

[nkarafo]

Odd how the Dreamcast port of VF3 is so bad, I wonder what happened? Anyone know?

Dreamcast + Naomi are the same, Dreamcast having less RAM iirc. I never accepted the notion that Naomi is more powerful than the Model 3. Naomi 2 maybe but Naomi 1... i never saw something as impressive as Scud Race or Sega Rally 2 on it. To me, Model 3 looks like a better polygon pusher. Naomi only has more modern effects.

Add to that how the Dreamcast had to run some crappy Windows version on top of that.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Odd how the Dreamcast port of VF3 is so bad, I wonder what happened? Anyone know?

It wasn't in-house, and wasn't going to be released at all but some ex-AM2 people at Genki wanted it on the system if I remember right.

So out-sourced and rushed for launch is what we got.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

I will refresh this thread and get it back on topic by making this statement:

Odd how the Dreamcast port of VF3 is so bad, I wonder what happened? Anyone know?

It was outsourced to Genki, apparently AM2 was working on bringing it to Saturn. Sega mismanaged it incredibly.

 

[petran79]

I will refresh this thread and get it back on topic by making this statement:

Odd how the Dreamcast port of VF3 is so bad, I wonder what happened? Anyone know?

Even worse was that they did not utilized the analogue stick and did not map shortcuts to the triggers. DC gamepad is only for patient players.

Still I prefer this to VF4 and 5.
Here characters have few moves and are straightforward. In 4 and 5 they added so many moves that it felt like Tekken and Soulcalibour.

 

[Crayon]

I'm going to say scud/super kills gran prix legends graphically. Kills it.

emulated:

on arcade m3 board:

This exquisite racing game is a total sex machine. I could play it all night.

 

[Spladam]

It was outsourced to Genki, apparently AM2 was working on bringing it to Saturn. Sega mismanaged it incredibly.

Yeah, Sega was dropping the ball left and right back then, so much potential lost to profound mismanagement. At least we had a beautiful and smooth playing Soul Calibur.

 

[Synth]

I think you have to be a crazy fanboy to think Scud Race looks better than GPL, and i though everyone would at least admit THAT. So it seems we will have to agree to disagree.

You have to be taking the piss. Nothing in that GP Legends gif is superior to Scud Race. Not geometry complexitry. Not textures. Not lighting. Not even fucking framerate... hell the best thing about that GP Legends gif is the hands on the wheel... and Scud Race did THAT better also, with smoother animations and a more detailed model.

I will refresh this thread and get it back on topic by making this statement:

Odd how the Dreamcast port of VF3 is so bad, I wonder what happened? Anyone know?

The Dreamcast version of Virtua Fighter 3tb was a rushed port by Genki.

 

[RAIDEN1]

....Bit like how they rushed the port of Daytona USA for the Saturn...only with less-pop-up!

 

[Spiral Insanity]

I still would have liked to see AM2's take on VF3 on Saturn. I think it could have looked great in its own way, kind of like that Saturn Shenmue prototype.

Nice to see those Scud Race gifs. Wish I still had the EDGE issue where it was on the cover. It just looked unbelievable.

 

[Log4Girlz]

You have to be taking the piss. Nothing in that GP Legends gif is superior to Scud Race. Not geometry complexitry. Not textures. Not lighting. Not even fucking framerate... hell the best thing about that GP Legends gif is the hands on the wheel... and Scud Race did THAT better also, with smoother animations and a more detailed model.

The Dreamcast version of Virtua Fighter 3tb was a rushed port by Genki.

Sadly,I think it's time they saw a doctor for their eyesight.

 

[AmyS]

Here are some videos of Scud Race running at 60fps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt4B5euclmQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rad0FWu9xrI

What PC game could touch that level of polygon count + performance, even 2 years later?

You're right. Absolutely nothing could. Not even remotely close.

 

[Crayon]

All Hail Super GT.

I want to find a cab right now and play it.

 

[PdotMichael]

Comparing PC hardware for sub $1000 to high-end arcade hardware is quite silly.

It wasn't until Sega gave up on high-end arcade hardware in the post Naomi era that PC hardware became a match to arcade hardware.

 

[Synth]

Comparing PC hardware for sub $1000 to high-end arcade hardware is quite silly.

Especially when you consider that games were made specifically for the specs of high-end arcade hardware, whilst basically nobody pre-Unreal was doing that for PC.

 

[Microsofts Hunert Smoke]

Atari Games Arcade (then brought by Midway iirc) had San Francisco Rush and that was the closest to Model 3 there was, and that includes the fact Midway wasn't putting as much investment in arcade hardware as Sega and instead were creating engines for consoles and PC. Scud Race and Sanfrancisco Rush were racing games providing quality you were NOT going to get on any computer platform with any configuration, or home gaming console.

In fact,1996 was likely the last time you could say Arcades had a massive gap compared to other available hardware. I remember in the 80's when i placed Hard Drivin' and though consoles wouldn't touch it in over half a decade, and I wasn't wrong. After 1996 the gap was closing and by the 2000's arcades were not even a think outside japan.

 

[nkarafo]

Atari Games Arcade (then brought by Midway iirc) had San Francisco Rush and that was the closest to Model 3 there was, and that includes the fact Midway wasn't putting as much investment in arcade hardware as Sega and instead were creating engines for consoles and PC. Scud Race and Sanfrancisco Rush were racing games providing quality you were NOT going to get on any computer platform with any configuration, or home gaming console.

In fact,1996 was likely the last time you could say Arcades had a massive gap compared to other available hardware. I remember in the 80's when i placed Hard Drivin' and though consoles wouldn't touch it in over half a decade, and I wasn't wrong. After 1996 the gap was closing and by the 2000's arcades were not even a think outside japan.

Rush looked too janky compared to something like Scud or Sega Rally 2. It didn't feel nearly as smooth or elegant. And i don't think it even came close to that level of detail either.

 

[AmyS]

This speaks for itself.

 

[Sapiens]

no it wasn't, it was less than two years first of all, and there were already games that were almost on par. Even in that time span most devs, arcade or PC were still not at VF3 levels so the time excuse, especially one so short doesn't even work here. Especially with people saying that the Model 3 was generations ahead. I don't understand why it's hard to admit games were on par when it was only a few in the first place. As I said you had a good PC you were not that far behind.

I mean in less than two years from VF3 PC already crushed the model 3 but even outdoing the Noami (at launch).

Are you serious with hat gif????

 

[Microsofts Hunert Smoke]

Rush looked too janky compared to something like Scud or Sega Rally 2. It didn't feel nearly as smooth or elegant. And i don't think it even came close to that level of detail either.

Rush ran smooth in the arcades. It had goof draw and handle mutliple things going on at the same time well. Id say it and Scud Race while the former is on more powerful hardware, are both pretty impressive.

Sega Rally came out two years later so it better have beaten down SFR.

Are you serious with hat gif????

I will give him it looks better than most PC and all console games but it doesn't touch the arcades.

 

[Tain]

No, you absolutely were not.

On PC, Quake II would probably be your graphical showpiece in 96, and you're still two years away from the first Unreal game. Virtua Fighter 3 made a mockery of literally everything graphically at the time.

Quake II wasn't until December '97, so it's even more of a stomping than that.

 

[AmyS]

no it wasn't, it was less than two years first of all, and there were already games that were almost on par. Even in that time span most devs, arcade or PC were still not at VF3 levels so the time excuse, especially one so short doesn't even work here. Especially with people saying that the Model 3 was generations ahead. I don't understand why it's hard to admit games were on par when it was only a few in the first place. As I said you had a good PC you were not that far behind.

I mean in less than two years from VF3 PC already crushed the model 3 but even outdoing the Noami (at launch).

LOL.

 

[Synth]

Quake II wasn't until December '97, so it's even more of a stomping than that.

Yea, I realised that afterwards, but instead of correcting myself, I just switched to using Quake I as an example in follow-up posts.

I'm legitimately surprised anyone would seriously argue that PC gaming in 1996 was on Model 3's level though... and to bring GP Legends as your ammo just seems like a joke tbh.

 

[Microsofts Hunert Smoke]

Yea, I realised that afterwards, but instead of correcting myself, I just switched to using Quake I as an example in follow-up posts.

I'm legitimately surprised anyone would seriously argue that PC gaming in 1996 was on Model 3's level though... and to bring GP Legends as your ammo just seems like a joke tbh.

Didn't Grand Prix come out in 1998?

 

[PdotMichael]

What a strange hill to die on.

 

[Crayon]

Omg AmyS with the magazine scans. Like it was yesterday. Nostalgia overload.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

I always felt VF4 was a significant step back.

 

[AmyS]

The original arcade San Francisco Rush: Extreme Racing in 1996 on Atari Flagstaff hardware (using the equivalent of a Voodoo 1 board with 2 texture mapping chips and more graphics RAM)
was a hot 30fps mess compared to any Model 3 game.

 

[The Gorby Congressmanz]

The original arcade San Francisco Rush: Extreme Racing in 1996 on Atari Flagstaff hardware (using the equivalent of a Voodoo 1 board with 2 texture mapping chips and more graphics RAM)
was a hot 30fps mess compared to any Model 3 game.

"Closest to model 3" isn't the same as "Better than a model 3 game". he was just pointing out that those SFR and Scud in 1996 outclassed everything else.

Edit: People in this thread take things too serious.

 

[Microsofts Hunert Smoke]

"Closest to model 3" isn't the same as "Better than a model 3 game". he was just pointing out that those SFR and Scud in 1996 outclassed everything else.

Edit: People in this thread take things too serious.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? You agreed with me that Scud Race and San Francisco Rush were better graphically than most other software on any other platform in 1996. That would mean you admitted and gave up on the idea that PC was on par in 1996,

 

[AmyS]

Omg AmyS with the magazine scans. Like it was yesterday. Nostalgia overload.

You know what's coming next, right? Awesome

note: Those are renders ^ of course (just so nobody thinks they're being passed off as real-time!).

 

[nkarafo]

Man, i miss those days when we compared graphics by polygon counts...

I wonder how many polys a 1080 ti can manage.

 

[∀ Narayan]

What a strange hill to die on.

lmao

My exact thoughts!

 

[oneida]

DOA5 is VF6

VF5FS is more like VF6 than DOA5.

 

[Bucket-o-roadkill]

no it wasn't, it was less than two years first of all, and there were already games that were almost on par. Even in that time span most devs, arcade or PC were still not at VF3 levels so the time excuse, especially one so short doesn't even work here. Especially with people saying that the Model 3 was generations ahead. I don't understand why it's hard to admit games were on par when it was only a few in the first place. As I said you had a good PC you were not that far behind.

I mean in less than two years from VF3 PC already crushed the model 3 but even outdoing the Noami (at launch).

..Come on, holy cow.

 

[Dragon1893]

I've been gaming for 28 years and the moment I saw VF3 for the first time stands out in my mind as one of the most mindblowing. Truly ahead of its time.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Omg AmyS with the magazine scans. Like it was yesterday. Nostalgia overload.

Yeah, the last 'golden age' of arcade, imo. Glorious.

 

[Mutagenic]

Damn, I had that copy of the magazine with the Model 3 article in it. I miss the magic of the arcade.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Unless you had a pc. If you had a good pc you were on par. Consoles were always weaker than the arcades.

PCs weren't anywhere near what Sega was doing until well into the 2000s.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

From your perspective, what was the atmosphere like when you was with everyone watching the VF3 demo at E3?

I just noticed that I hadn't replied to this only four years later... Everyone who came through that intersecting path stood still and watched that demo and there was always a crowd standing in front of it through all of the show. It was a graphical showcase that towered so far above everything else at that year's show that it didn't seem real and other attendees I talked to while waiting in lines at meal breaks were split on it being legit real time and everyone was wondering how something that even remotely looked like it would even come to a home platform, like the powerful and still-unreleased N64 that was playable on the floor. No one seriously considered that Saturn could bring it home fully intact, anyway. Sega having it run on a huge wall of monitors out in front of their booth ensured that it was difficult to miss if you were in that hall and, along with N64, it was the highlight of the show for pure amazement factor.

 

[Beil]

I see the glorious PC Master Race are busy rewriting gaming history. Not only is it the most powerful gaming platform now, but it was always the most powerful gaming platform.

 

[Mung]

Unless you had a pc. If you had a good pc you were on par. Consoles were always weaker than the arcades.

Lol. What utter rubbish. Pc graphics were poor compared to this. I remember I had both.