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[Flesh Into Gear]

yep

But he gets my respect for speaking out. I love it.

 

[WasabiKing]

Sure, he could use a little more restraint in his language (El Cliffy B has the same issue IMO), but I think it's high time the journalistic side of the fence to start showing a more credible face, stop regurgitating press releases and start thinking harder about how the review process works so it's fairer on the consumer, the publishers, and themselves.

you can start by crushing "blogs." New version of media my ass.

 

[McBradders]

you can start by crushing "blogs." New version of media my ass.

True, mass media diaries were really never going to be anything -but- the internet version of car crash television.

 

[shuri]

Jaffe's outspoken character could have just as easily upset the dev teams he works with at Sony, not necessarily Sony execs. Jaffe is ironically Sony's best PR person outside of Phil H. ATM, so I'd think execs wouldn't care as much.

But the dev teams Jaffe works with have the privilege/curse of working in his shadow. He may not do it intentionally but he grabs the spotlight nevertheless which may raise issues of jealousy or may have people concerned that their little $10 downloadable game project is garnering more attention than they'd personally like to see. Hype that could backfire and then they're the ones left with CAC on their resume, without Jaffe's rockstar status.

Post of the thread.

 

[Kintaro]

Take it down a notch. Don't get all Jaffe on me, I made a joke that you couldn't take and now you're using my status on an online forum as an insult. I simply found what you said as funny and you just didn't take it the right way. As for Thompson, he's only really attacked developers for making violent games, or for them/journalists/other members of the industry jabbing him personally, nothing else. If he started talking about God of War I'm sure it'd be about the sexual and violent themes more than the fact that Jaffe is profane on his personal blog. Even if he did, well then I'd be wrong, but that's not really the issue anyway. All I'm saying, and as I've stated before, is that it was funny that you described it as if Sony was running for president.

First, your joke was poor. Lets get that out of the way. No one laughed with you, you started a slow clap and no one clapped with. That's what prompted me to call you Junior, Junior. It's a rite of passage on the forum. Don't like it? Tough.

Second, I merely pointed out what could happen. In any other industry, do you see company reps doing interviews and letting loose with a blur of swearing during the interview? No. If you did, they would be fined or fired. Period. In Sony's case, the media is coming down on them for PS3's performance on one front, and on another front their own stupid PR. Jaffe, a developer for a Sony owned company, is running around cussing up a storm. Like I said, *IF* someone wanted to roll with it, they could. Therefore, no one could blame Sony *IF* they got pissed with him.

This isn't hard to understand, and it's all conversation anyways. However *something* happened, and now Jaffe isn't talking anymore. That speaks volumes for a man who couldn't stop doing it.

Both devs and gaming press need to take a step back and choose their words more carefully.

 

[EternalGamer]

Jaffe just needs to tone down his language and his critique would have appeared totally reasonable. His complaint is valid--complaining about a developer willing to go an extra mile and delay their product by a week in order to address a criticism is absurd. And such small delays certainly don't justify referring to him as a little girl that doesn't want to let go of his doll. ******* has clearly engaged in both name calling and ridiculious hyperbole, both of which are incredibly unprofessional.

Nevertheless, that doesn't justify Jaffe's stooping to an even lower level of immaturity by cussing out the editor. My advice for him would be the next time he gets angry w/ someone, write up the version with all the "f-cks" he wants in it to get out the aggression, and then go back and edit it out before actually posting it for the entire world to see.

 

[distrbnce]

Jaffe's outspoken character could have just as easily upset the dev teams he works with at Sony, not necessarily Sony execs. Jaffe is ironically Sony's best PR person outside of Phil H. ATM, so I'd think execs wouldn't care as much.

But the dev teams Jaffe works with have the privilege/curse of working in his shadow. He may not do it intentionally but he grabs the spotlight nevertheless which may raise issues of jealousy or may have people concerned that their little $10 downloadable game project is garnering more attention than they'd personally like to see. Hype that could backfire and then they're the ones left with CAC on their resume, without Jaffe's rockstar status.

Well since your entire post is wild pessimistic speculation, I'll play along.

I wouldn't think anyone on the dev team would have a problem with their game garnering attention, and it's only a good thing for them and their resumes that issues are being addressed before release.

The only impression I have of CAC though is the guys going crazy about it on 1up Yours.

 

[thanks]

First, your joke was poor. Lets get that out of the way. No one laughed with you, you started a slow clap and no one clapped with. That's what prompted me to call you Junior, Junior. It's a rite of passage on the forum. Don't like it? Tough.

Second, I merely pointed out what could happen. In any other industry, do you see company reps doing interviews and letting loose with a blur of swearing during the interview? No. If you did, they would be fined or fired. Period. In Sony's case, the media is coming down on them for PS3's performance on one front, and on another front their own stupid PR. Jaffe, a developer for a Sony owned company, is running around cussing up a storm. Like I said, *IF* someone wanted to roll with it, they could. Therefore, no one could blame Sony *IF* they got pissed with him.

This isn't hard to understand, and it's all conversation anyways. However *something* happened, and now Jaffe isn't talking anymore. That speaks volumes for a man who couldn't stop doing it.

Both devs and gaming press need to take a step back and choose their words more carefully.

I never said it wasn't a bad joke.

Well in the music and movie industries you see artists flying off the handle all the time, and no one points to the companies they work for saying "just look at the filth they're hiring!". They're all creative entertainment industries, there's some leeway for that kind of thing.

Both devs and gaming press do in fact need to take a step back and choose their words carefully, but to a certain extent. At least as far as developers go. Blogs (especially joyshit) shouldn't really be considered gaming press. The "professional ones" should count as press however, the kotaku's, the game | lifes, the n'gai croal level up's, etc.

 

[Midas]

On PSN for a low price. $600+ worth of game right there.

It would be worth $59.99! But a PSN release would do.

 

[thetrin]

I do enjoy Jaffe's games quite a bit, but I really think his message would have been more palatable had he not sworn so much. I swear like a ****ing sailor myself, but there's a time and place for it, and it's hard for people to take you seriously when you do.

I don't get how gaffers are saying he's the man because of this. He could've laid the smack down in a far more subtle manner, and not only achieved the same effect, but probably also gotten a little more outside respect.

 

[kaching]

Well since your entire post is wild pessimistic speculation, I'll play along.

Wha? Jaffe himself said, " My stylings have upset some folks within the biz I care very much about..." How is it any kind of wild stretch to consider that it might be the dev teams he works with that he refers to as such?

I wouldn't think anyone on the dev team would have a problem with their game garnering attention, and it's only a good thing for them and their resumes that issues are being addressed before release.

We regularly talk about games that get overhyped around here, which in turn has an impact on the assessment of the abilities of the dev team in question to properly scope and control their game projects. Jaffe has the luxury of having celebrity and perhaps deeper resume than members of his team may have, so if he gets a little out of control with CAC, it's merely a fluke for him, easier to smooth out with future projects (or just go quiet and rest on the laurels of his earlier work). Others simply may not have this luxury, where CAC may represent a much more significant contribution to their resume and as such would be more sensitive to critical backlash.

The only impression I have of CAC though is the guys going crazy about it on 1up Yours.

That's nice. Not really germane in a response to my comments though since I haven't passed any kind of judgment on the game itself.

 

[Kintaro]

Both devs and gaming press do in fact need to take a step back and choose their words carefully, but to a certain extent. At least as far as developers go. Blogs (especially joyshit) shouldn't really be considered gaming press. The "professional ones" should count as press however, the kotaku's, the game | lifes, the n'gai croal level up's, etc.

I think this generation is going to be a true test for gaming journalism to be honest. The Wii is really ****ing things up in the gaming world, so how will these sites cover that? Should be interesting.

 

[Lord Error]

Sooo, is CaC being released tomorrow or not?

******* made an analogy simply comparing him to a girl who didn't want to let her doll go. Did they ever say he was a girl or CaC was garbage bin crap? No.

So as long as I tell someone that they are like crap/garbage/whatever, and don't tell them they are that, I'm not insulting them, correct? If only words worked like that.

 

[Mad Decent]

Vlad Cole for Joy.stiq made me leave.
Robert Summa made me leave Destructoid.

Same here... especially with Destructoid

 

[Mike Works]

i love jaffe, and anyone chastising him for anything other than perhaps the overuse of swear words (which i personally adore) is a ****ing idiot

he's getting made fun of by a "professional" site for going back and fixing his game based on reviews from similar websites. that's seriously ****ed up beyond imagination.

i've never played any of jaffe's games, i have no personal stake in any of his business, amd i've never read joystick before, but i fully support his rant.

 

[fanduck]

http://www.[Fill in the blank].com/2007/05/02/jaffe-swears-off-blogging-was-it-something-we-said/

Ooh goodie, they responded. Just as I suspected, Jaffe misread/overreacted...

 

[Yoboman]

Damn I totally thought this was going to be a n*ggers vs. Jaffe thread

Spoiler

Damn naggers, I hate them so much

 

[Stealth]

http://www.[Fill in the blank].com/2007/05/02/jaffe-swears-off-blogging-was-it-something-we-said/

Ooh goodie, they responded. Just as I suspected, Jaffe misread/overreacted...

I just deleted joy.stiq from my bookmarks when I saw that they quoted every nice thing they said about Jaffe at the end of that article. This is like a pre-school fight over someone stealing your crayons.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I don't mind Jaffe's language, I think we can all be tired of the uneven line of kiddy safe and PR speak that gaming inhabits. And he's got some great vision for the industry and creating new game ideas. I think he's proven he has the talent and vision to supply interesting entertainment for all of us for some time to come. But he seems to be lacking some internal balance between being a lightning rod for transition, and accepting some of his role as an outspoken gaming icon who participates in fandom in all it's blustery bullshit. I sort of wish he could find a way to be more comfortable with allowing that access in blogs and interviews without becoming a parody of the typical Console Warrior. It gets him love around the some dark internet corners, but it also is beginning to seem a bit childish.

 

[truly101]

You know the issue isn't so much that Joy..stiq likened him to a girl that won't let go of her favorite doll, its more that David Jaffe was irritated that Jo.y.stiq insinuated he postponed the game because he's some sort of paranoid perfectionist that won't let go, when in reality he pushed it back to fix a potentially game breaking bug found by IGN.

You have several game editors who wish developers would listen to them when they bring problems to their attention. Jaffe did just that, got shit for it and is pissed, whether they said he was a little girl or not probably wouldn't have made too much of a difference, though it didn't help.

 

[Miniboss1232]

Well, Jaffe's proved one thing... It's easier to market your game when you forcefully put yourself in the public spotlight.

For some reason, I'm reminded of John Romero. Odd...

 

[MrSardonic]

Apparently I care. I care enough no to buy his games because of the way he comes across.

That's because you are an extremely unusual, moralistic, and sheltered individual who seems to have a problem with swearing in general...leading to your puritanical rejection of any products tainted by individuals who fail to meet your precise, rigid, moral code.

Wow...it's official, Sardonic is Jaffe Jr. I bet you're going to grow up to be just like him

Perhaps you didn't notice the part where I clearly stated that I don't give a **** about Jaffe but that he is justified in being pissed off in this situation, even if people disagree over how he reacted.

Perhaps YOU should take a trip down memory lane. He took the game back in to make fixes to some things that were problematic in reviews.

This is the point I have been making and that you seem to have only just grasped. Perhaps you now realise why all your previous analogies were totally inappropriate and beside the point.

******* made an analogy simply comparing him to a girl who didn't want to let her doll go.

Their analogy was a clear attempt at insult by implying that Jaffe was trying to spare his game from the equivalent of a "garage sale bin". An analogy comparing him to a little girl who didnt want to let her doll go actually makes no sense in this context...you also seem to have totally missed the point of "insult via analogy".

For you to call me a fanboy, despite me not giving a **** about Jaffe, despite me not owning a PS3, despite me not considering Jaffe's games as to be up there with the very best, is symptomatic of your consistently poorly argued and shifting position.

But your argument is so damn thin that you have to stoop to personal attacks against me and dismiss my entire point simply because I didn't know one part of his pedigree.

Wrong. My argument doesn't depend on personal insults, despite the ease with which they could be directed at you, because it is quite clearly laid out in contrast to your "point"...which cannot even be described as a "point" because it has been shifting and incoherent.

In fact, it is you who is resorting to personal insults and side-stepping legitimate criticisms of your posts.

How you can justify his actions or how anybody can justify his actions, I'll never know.

Yet another straw man you've created. I didn't justify Jaffe's actions, just his right to feel agrieved in this situation.

 

[GhaleonEB]

http://www.[Fill in the blank].com/2007/05/02/jaffe-swears-off-blogging-was-it-something-we-said/

Ooh goodie, they responded. Just as I suspected, Jaffe misread/overreacted...

Pretty amusing response.

Now, we could take umbrage with your misreading of our post; we could point out the irony of you criticizing our lack of reading and research; we could even point out the irony of you misinterpreting our "little girl" simile and acting out like ... well, let's just forget about all that. We don't want to keep fighting! We just want to tell you that we like your candor, always have. In fact, in looking back at all that we've said about you and your projects, we found it to be overwhelmingly positive (shared with you below). In short, don't give up blogging. And definitely don't give up blogging over a simple misunderstanding! The industry needs more candid developers eager to address their fans and critics alike, not one less.

Love,

The #!*?tards Your pals at *******

 

[Kittonwy]

Jaffe is actually listening to reviewers and is putting in extra time to fix his game before it is delivered to PS3 gamers, what did he do wrong again?

 

[hyp]

:lol Jaffetoid. Destructiod changed their whole front page because of this fiasco.

:lol d'toid - always a class act.

 

[----]

Jaffe was stupid to overreact like that. I agree with his words, but all this does is bolster *******; their story is probably getting bombarded with hits. Not to mention it makes Jaffe look unprofessional.

Well that's the impression he always gives off. He comes off as an immature hothead, possibly a heavy drinker and a narcissistic philanderer like Itagaki. Anyone who gives off as much nervous energy as he does makes me wonder if drugs are even in play. If you've ever seen him interviewed it's like he can't stop talking or slow down. I can't imagine working with this guy. He must be impossible to collaborate with on a team. Poor Sony PR they've got enough problems as it is, but to manage David Jaffe's mouth must be a nightmare. In the last week he's bashed two of the biggest game sites on the internet, Gamepot and J.oystiq.

Between Jaffe, Dyack, and Itagaki, game designers are really turning my stomach lately. Definitely not people to be proud of as members of this community. They are negative elements of the game community because of their pugnacious and irresponsible behavior. I feel bad for everyone that works with them. Can you imagine being on Jaffe's team and telling him one of his ideas for a game was really bad? Yikes.

 

[bishoptl]

Well that's the impression he always gives off. He comes off as an immature hothead, possibly a heavy drinker and a narcissistic philanderer like Itagaki. Anyone who gives off as much nervous energy as he does makes me wonder if drugs are even in play.

Nice. Out.

 

[mckmas8808]

Jaffe's outspoken character could have just as easily upset the dev teams he works with at Sony, not necessarily Sony execs. Jaffe is ironically Sony's best PR person outside of Phil H. ATM, so I'd think execs wouldn't care as much.

But the dev teams Jaffe works with have the privilege/curse of working in his shadow. He may not do it intentionally but he grabs the spotlight nevertheless which may raise issues of jealousy or may have people concerned that their little $10 downloadable game project is garnering more attention than they'd personally like to see. Hype that could backfire and then they're the ones left with CAC on their resume, without Jaffe's rockstar status.

Is is possible that most of the dev team likes that Jaffe acts and talks like this?

 

[Haunted]

Nice. Out.

 

[fernoca]

I love Jaffe..as developer..hehehehe.. Though, he's hot ...ehr..anyway...
I think he jumped the gun...too fast..and got too concerned about what others are saying...
(just like Dennis Dyack)...

Next time well see Hirai, Kutaragi or Miyamoto..replying to all the .gifs floating around them in this forum. :lol

 

[TheGreatDave]

I think Jaffe suffered from a case of giving ******* too much credit as writers. Seriously, they just say the first thing that pops in their head. Stealing content from other sites isn't fun unless a "humerous" writer has something else to fill two paragraphs.

Nobody can dislike Jaffe. He's like a walking ball of entertainment. Can't wait till they get him on EGM Live!

 

[Salmonax]

he's getting made fun of by a "professional" site for going back and fixing his game based on reviews from similar websites. that's seriously ****ed up beyond imagination.

They didn't make fun of him, though. They were trying to cast him as being very protective of Calling All Cars and he misinterpreted it as a shot at his masculinity and his game being bound for the bargain bin (which, considering it's a bargain title, makes no sense).

Mind you, they drew a terrible comparison, but neither party looks particularly good in this exchange.

 

[Ghengis Cohen]

Is is possible that most of the dev team likes that Jaffe acts and talks like this?

No

 

[SaggyMonkey]

Now we'll never have nice things.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Bah sites like ******* and Kotaku never host their own content anyway, so to me that's where you draw the line between Blog and "real" Game news site. it's also where you draw the line between "I give a **** what they say" and "I don't give a **** what they say". ******* would fall in the later. It's just some dudes that grab headlines from around the internet and post them with some random picture. Sounds like GAF right? Well yeah, but we don't call ourselves "journalists".

EA "gets it". To them the internet doesn't exist. More companies should act this way and they'd realize the world is much bigger than it seems. Plus, they wouldn't make stupid decisions based on a handful of gamers that do NOT correspond the average gamer anyway (they don't post on forums or leave comments on blogs).

 

[mckmas8808]

No

So it's impossible huh? How do you know? Are you on the dev team?

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I prefer a more John Carmack (id Software) approach to PR and communications with the community. I respect JC infinitely more.

Carmack is a true professional engineer. I have no idea what he's like beyond what he exposes - and that's great. It's all legit, to the point - and interesting from a technical standpoint as well.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

lol...they actually got to him. What an over reaction, actually a totally unnecessary reaction.

I guess Jaffe can't really handle any criticisms in this online world, valid or invalid.

 

[fse]

I think Jaffe overreacted. Game had bugs, and got some low scores. He took it way too personal. Eh.

 

[fse]

lol...they actually got to him. What an over reaction, actually a totally unnecessary reaction.

I guess Jaffe can't really handle any criticisms in this online world, valid or invalid.

Kinda true. People always have different opinions. deal with it hehe.
his game has few maps, and apparently can be beat in 20 minutes. It also had two what I would call big bugs.

 

[spwolf]

So it's impossible huh? How do you know? Are you on the dev team?

no

I am sure dev team doesnt like Jaffe fighting for the game and believing in it... i am sure they would preffer that he ignores them and rather act like Jaffe-the-God of GoW fame and simply jump to another project, blaming this on everyone else.

How many game designers came to GAF and said Sorry?

 

[Y2Kev]

I think Jaffe overreacted. Game had bugs, and got some low scores. He took it way too personal. Eh.

That's explicitly not what he's talking about.

The game had two large bugs. Jaffe STOPPED the game from being available to the public so that he could FIX those bugs. He took flak for that.

 

[fse]

That's explicitly not what he's talking about.

The game had two large bugs. Jaffe STOPPED the game from being available to the public so that he could FIX those bugs. He took flak for that.

Didn't gamespot review the "final" game?

 

[frankthurk]

Didn't gamespot review the "final" game?

It reviewed the game they sent them I'm sure. And his response to that on his own blog was hardly an over-reaction. Have you even read the articles and blogs f_elz?

 

[FightyF]

1. Jaffe goes back and fixes bug in a game close to release
2. Everyone happy
3. Banned site posts analogy comparing Jaffe to a small girl who is unwilling to let go of her prized possession because she just loves it that much
4: Jaffe misses the point
5. Jaffe: "HURGHALURGALURGHAF*CK"
6. NeoGAF: "Ahahahah this guy is amazing, Hi5 Jaffe!"

Where in the above scenario between Jaffe completely missing the point of the article and then getting high-fives from GAF does he do something completely awesome? The banned site is a pretty awful website, but to anyone with a basic understanding of metaphor they really don't seem to have done anything wrong and were in fact saying something positive about Jaffe and Calling All Cars.

Seems to me he just felt that his manhood had been threatened by the little girl remarks and the RED MIST came down and then he started typing angrily on the internet.

Because the: "HRUGHALURGALURGHAF*CK" was more than just a random typing of letters. It was a funny remark regarding a joke site.

The way I look at it...this is very much the same way a comedian deals with hecklers.

What Jaffe said was perfectly acceptable. Sure, it was harsh, some expletives where thrown about...but it's not like he pulled a Micheal Richards/Kramer here...

 

[Y2Kev]

Didn't gamespot review the "final" game?

Obviously not, since changes have been made since the review went live.

 

[kaching]

Is is possible that most of the dev team likes that Jaffe acts and talks like this?

Umm, Yes? Is there anything in what I said that completely rules that out? Did I not use the word "may" enough?

But it doesn't really matter if *most* of the team is okay with it or even likes it because the point here is that Jaffe specifically indicated key people that are important to him in the biz didn't like how he was putting himself out there and he wants to respect their perspective on the issue. So if those people happen to be on one of his dev teams, it doesn't matter if they're in the minority.

 

[Beer Monkey]

That's explicitly not what he's talking about.

The game had two large bugs. Jaffe STOPPED the game from being available to the public so that he could FIX those bugs. He took flak for that.

I think he's now taking the biggest amount of flack for his response.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Yes, Jaffe is acting like a 12 year old brat on XBL, but I ****ing hate joy.stiq, so yeah...

**** 'em.

 

[Zen]

Wow Joystick....

Their response is basically, "we used a purposefully demeaning metaphor to describe the situation as we think it is... oh wait your mad at us? B-b-but we didn't really mean that! The metaphor was actually a metaphor for the metaphor that we clearly meant! I mean when you say something like

"Like a little girl struggling to keep her favorite doll out of the garage sale bin ..."

I mean we CLEARLY meant

"Someone who loves their product is going to fix a bug in it"

Sorry you misunderstood us!

Give me a ****ing break. You don't compare a game creator to a little girl and then the product they are working on to 'her favorite doll' and then say that bug fixing is equivalent to 'desperately hoping to keep it out of the garage sales bin'.