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[Poodlestrike]

Marvel is, pound for pound, a lot more dangerous, but 40k has (to overextend the metaphor) way, way more weight to throw around. Armies numbering in the quadrillions, swarms of aliens multiple orders of magnitude larger than that... Marvel superscience can only go so far until they die the death of a thousand cuts, IMO.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

I love both universes and after reading Infinity, I want to see this happen.

Shuma-Gorath and the multi-angled ones join the Chaos and wreck havoc on all aspects of reality.

The Tyraninds find themselves on a stalemate against the Annihilation wave and join forces to wipe out the living.

The Emperor summons his ultimate champion, Captain America to lead humanity's forces against the impossible... but is betrayed by the ultimate man... Doom.

So much potential there

 

[Coriolanus]

Marvel is, pound for pound, a lot more dangerous, but 40k has (to overextend the metaphor) way, way more weight to throw around. Armies numbering in the quadrillions, swarms of aliens multiple orders of magnitude larger than that... Marvel superscience can only go so far until they die the death of a thousand cuts, IMO.

Marvel got bona fide reality warpers by the buttload. Numbers are meaningless.

That is how lopsided this is: in order to even entertain the slim possibility of 40k winning, youd have to make it 40k vs Earth, and even then nothing in 40k comes even remotely close to being able to deal with molecule man and franklin.

 

[Ebris]

Oh damn, I just realized something, guys.

The Warp is psychoreactive. It is the culmination of all sapient, psychic thought and emotion, creating what is essentially pure, unlimited potential and change. Anything is possible in it, but its strength is correlated to the realms it borders.

In Warhammer 40k, daemons are hideously strong. Lesser daemons can tear space marines limb from limb, while greater daemons are capable of razing entire solar systems or driving them insane with a thought. In comparison, the Warp in Warhammer Fantasy (the Realms of Chaos) are far more toned down. Even the strongest greater daemons in that setting are only capable of destroying a country, which is piddly compared to their brothers in the grimdark galaxy.

That is just the Warp in the 40k galaxy - a single galaxy. What happens if it suddenly borders not just the Marvel 616 universe, but all of them, due to how they are intrinsically connected? The Chaos Gods are fueled not just by emotion, but the concepts they personify. Think of all the conflict, change, deconstruction and excess that are thrown around in the Marvel universes. Think of the dreams and ambitions of godlike entities that would pool into the Warp, churning it and feeding the entities within.

That is something to think about, I reckon.

 

[Coriolanus]

Warp stuff.

Willed out of existence.

There you go.

Seriously, y'all aint getting how broken mahvel is.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

I love both universes and after reading Infinity, I want to see this happen.

Shuma-Gorath and the multi-angled ones join the Chaos and wreck havoc on all aspects of reality.

The Tyraninds find themselves on a stalemate against the Annihilation wave and join forces to wipe out the living.

The Emperor summons his ultimate champion, Captain America to lead humanity's forces against the impossible... but is betrayed by the ultimate man... Doom.

So much potential there

Better to die for the Emperor than live for yourself that would be bad ass, but cap would need some of that Grey Knights gene seed , he is puny compared to an 8ft tall super dooper human space marine.

 

[Member876]

lol... what have I done? Finally decided to start and finsh Horus saga and ordered Horus box set. I guess, I know what I'm reading this month.

Can't wait to get my own box.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Willed out of existence.

There you go.

Seriously, y'all aint getting how broken mahvel is.

That's the thing.

The Warp and the Chaos that live in it can't be willed out of existence. The warp is compromised over everything that created the universe and living creatures, which the Chaos Gods have dominion over. Every action serves to only strengthen the Chaos Gods.

Let's talk about Richard Franklins. His power is to literally change things to how he see fits. Tzeentch feeds off that-and in turn he becomes stronger than Franklin Richards, and the Warp changes and molds into something that will only feed off Franklin Richards. It'll be that shadow in his eye, where even if he thinks he extinguishes it, it'll simply be looming in his new reality.

You can't really kill or wish away a Chaos God. Again, Tzeentch for example. If for whatever reason the Marvel Universe touched the W40K universe, then Tzeentch has known about it. His intelligence and power is such that it would probably be revealed that all the magic in the Marvel Universe came from Tzeentches machinations from millenia ago. So how do you stop Tzeentch? You stop wanting change. You stop hoping. You stop being afraid of the future. He is literally fed off the act of wanting change, of wanting to see what tomorrow holds, of being afraid, of wanting knowledge, etc. Everyone and everything that has emotions or thoughts like that inadvertently feeds Tzeentch-The more strong-willed people feed him more than someone weak, and it all serves to increase his dominion over the Warp. It's why the Chaos gods fight constantly-If ones dominion over the Warp becomes too strong, then they start bending reality to their will.

Khorne feeds off violence and bloodshed. As long as you have your super heroes killing or destroying, then he'll be fed in power at a magnitude greater than what the super heroes output. Galactus destroys a planet? Khorne is that much stronger. A whole galaxy is wiped out? Than Khorne is that much stronger.

Slaanesh feeds off desires and lust. Even the strongest knight couldn't strike him down when Slaanesh took the form of a pure, beautiful, young androgynous child. One look at him, and he'll have you in his palm immediately.

Nurgle feeds of death. Even if the heroes killed off every invader possible, then Nurgle gets that much stronger. Everyone who's ever been sick has felt his touch already. As such in the back of your minds, you feel Nurgle-many people who know about the Chaos gods in the W40K universe know that when they die they'll simply go over to Nurgle.

No Marvel hero can simply 'wish' them away-because that would be eliminating the Warp, and if the Warp acts the same in the W40K universe, then the second it touches the Marvel universe, the Warp becomes part of it's universe and it becomes necessary in order to continue existing. As long as Marvel super heroes have basic emotions, then the Chaos Gods will continue to be fed and grow stronger. That is the reality of the Warp. Even if a situation arised where Marvel pushed back the warp into it's proper universe, than the Marvel Universe would continue to be tainted by the presence of the Chaos Gods, simply because they affect everything and everyone as long as those people continue to dream, hope, lust, war amongst each other, and die.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

lol... what have I done? Finally decided to start and finsh Horus saga and ordered Horus box set. I guess, I know what I'm reading this month.

knowledge is power, hide it well.

 

[kamorra]

I only know the tabletop game. Where would one start to get in the 40k Universe?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I only know the tabletop game. Where would one start to get in the 40k Universe?

Anything by Dan Abnett is fan-fucking-tastic. Gaunts Ghosts is my go to~

 

[Coriolanus]

No Marvel hero can simply 'wish' them away-because that would be eliminating the Warp, and if the Warp acts the same in the W40K universe, then the second it touches the Marvel universe, the Warp becomes part of it's universe and it becomes necessary in order to continue existing. As long as Marvel super heroes have basic emotions, then the Chaos Gods will continue to be fed and grow stronger. That is the reality of the Warp. Even if a situation arised where Marvel pushed back the warp into it's proper universe, than the Marvel Universe would continue to be tainted by the presence of the Chaos Gods, simply because they affect everything and everyone as long as those people continue to dream, hope, lust, war amongst each other, and die.

You're forgetting that the warp is 40k's paranormal reality. Mahvel got one of that too. Either characters belong to one or the other. You're also assuming that the paranormal entities in mahvel would even allow the chaos gods to come over.

And yes, franklin could close the warp.

Even then you got shit like the Living Tribunal and the infinity gauntlet, that can rewrite the rules of reality as they see fit.

In 40k there is no infinity gauntlet, so once the warp is in place, yeah, tough cookie. Then again, 40k also has no reality warpers, only very high level mages.
40k has no omnipotents.

40k also has no reliable way to travel to the past.

This is a good thing, btw. Means that GWS never let their writers go *completely* pants on head retarded. Aside from CS Goto and the guy that wrote the new grey wardens book.

 

[kamorra]

Anything by Dan Abnett is fan-fucking-tastic. Gaunts Ghosts is my go to~

We're talking novels here right? Not comic books? It doesn't matter with which book I start? I literally know almost nothing about 40k.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I only know the tabletop game. Where would one start to get in the 40k Universe?

Gaunt's Ghosts by Dan Abnett (frankly, anything of his is probably gold) and Ciaphas Cain (Sandy Mitchell). Both present very different, but very similar perspectives on the setting, so it's good to go for both so you get the full picture. Then move on to some of the Space Marine stuff.

 

[Ebris]

Actually, inside the Warp, it's full blown reality warping. Even in areas just contaminated by the Warp the laws of reality are utterly turned inside out.

Outside of it, though, yeah, even the strongest of Alpha+ psykers couldn't compare to someone like Franklin Richards.

 

[Coriolanus]

Actually, inside the Warp, it's full blown reality warping. Even in areas just contaminated by the Warp the laws of reality are utterly turned inside out.

Outside of it, though, yeah, even the strongest of Alpha+ psykers couldn't compare to someone like Franklin Richards.

Thats because it is a paranormal realm. Different rules. Franklin can just sever the connection.

Worst comes to worst, victor travels to the past and removes whatever caused the warp to appear.

Now im wondering what kinda shit Xavier could do to the astropaths if he still were alive.

Tbh Tzeentch is all hype. Dude been around for 20k+ years and still hasnt managed to get rid of nurgle.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

You're forgetting that the warp is 40k's paranormal reality. Mahvel got one of that too. Either characters belong to one or the other. You're also assuming that the paranormal entities in mahvel would even allow the chaos gods to come over.

And yes, franklin could close the warp.

Even then you got shit like the Living Tribunal and the infinity gauntlet, that can rewrite the rules of reality as they see fit.

In 40k there is no infinity gauntlet, so once the warp is in place, yeah, tough cookie. Then again, 40k also has no reality warpers, only very high level mages.
40k has no omnipotents.

40k also has no reliable way to travel to the past.

This is a good thing, btw. Means that GWS never let their writers go *completely* pants on head retarded. Aside from CS Goto and the guy that wrote the new grey wardens book.

I dunno about the warp being paranormal , WH40K seems to be monistic , one type of existence even if they are differentiated like the warp or space or even daemon like beings or the necrons putting their "consciousness" into bodies of metal.

But they are all within the galaxy the warp is a part of the world not separate from it, unlike say when GR is away from his host they are completely in another transcendent existence not reliant on physical existence. In WH40K the empire of man traverse the warp because the dying Emperor still guides them through the warp every jump, even if the warp is paranormal the Empire of Man have relied on the god Emperor to get through , and he's a fully corporeal being.

 

[Ventilaator]

Guys what's a good first 40k book to read, I'm reading this thread and the 40k universe sounds cool as fuck.

EDIT: Oh wait I'm seeing suggestions above already

 

[Coriolanus]

The Empire of Man have relied on the god Emperor to get through , and he's a fully corporeal being.

You do know how the emperor came to be, no?
Wouldnt call that a fully corporeal being.

Wouldnt even call it a being nowadays. Dude's no more a being than a bag of bones is.

Also seem to recal chaos gods being mighty worried about the kind of shit the emperor could pull.

Then theres that starchild theory that never went anywhere afaik

 

[DonasaurusRex]

You do know how the emperor came to be, no?
Wouldnt call that a fully corporeal being.

Wouldnt even call it a being nowadays. Dude's no more a being than a bag of bones is.

Also seem to recal chaos gods being mighty worried about the kind of shit the emperor could pull.

Then theres that starchild theory that never went anywhere afaik

what that the warp made a baby? Ughhh

I think' he's basically entombed though he still lights the astronomican right? Somethings there.

Wish they brought him back in some form of the expanded universe , a game or something so GW can do that story they can't do in the books or table top game.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

If nothing else, this thread has piqued my interest in the 40k universe. I've only started reading some of the lore from the site that someone linked above, and it's pretty deep.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tzeentch

Tzeentch and the other Chaos Gods sound a lot like the Marvel abstracts (Lord Order, Master Chaos, Love, Hate, Death, The Inbetweener, etc). They are a step above the "really big evil" guys like Mephisto, Shuma Gorath, Dormammu, Surtur, etc, and can't really be "destroyed" as such, they are intrinsic parts of reality. Still, Marvel has powers even higher than those (Eternity, Infinity Gems, Living Tribunal, Heart of the Universe, One Above All). You can't win a fight against reality itself.

If we're talking purely physical beings, Marvel isn't really written to be as crapsack as 40k, so the "good guys" win more often than not, and intelligent, civilized species like the Kree and Shi'ar win out more often than not in the end over abominations like the Brood or the Phalanx. Even the jerk species like the Skrulls are written with human-like motivations most of the time. If it were a purely physical confrontation 40k would certainly put up a hell of a fight.

 

[Blargonaut]

Marvel always wins, simply because their works are the epitomes of exaggerated power fantasies all neatly wrapped up in an impenetrable shitstorm of horrific continuity that oh-so conveniently allows their fanbase to 120% Perfect Counter any fictional challenger(s).

Warhammer 40K, despite also containing quite outlandish and fantastic concepts, is far more grounded and 'realistically' portrayed by its writers in the sense of how the majority of their conflicts, both large-scale and small, are resolved; mostly via martial or tactical prowess, with any fantastical elements being tastefully used as accentuating plot spices, as opposed to Marvel's trademark regularly-scheduled quantum blow-out handwaviums.

No fiction on Earth exists that can fight Marvel. The trick is to position yourself between two of Marvel's properties and provoke one of them into firing at you, upon which you sidestep and allow the projectile to strike the other Marvel property, triggering a civil dispute that you merely observe from the shade as the two defence forces tear into each other with hot friendly fire like enraged Doom imps. Only Marvel can 'win' against Marvel. That's the sad truth.

Basically,

...I guess if it came down to it, if both Marvel and WH40K universes were absolutely committed to fighting each other in a un-turncoat-able total-war type of scenario; both sides would utterly annihilate each other, until all that remained was a brief stalemate between Marvel's cosmic/supernatural beings and WH40K's Warp/Chaos Gods, just before some Marvel property inevitably sticks a celestial syringe up its own ass and extracts a bullshit marinade to soak the 41st Millenium in.

 

[Darg]

Beyonder? Beyonder.

 

[SliceSabre]

How could you convince the people in the 40k Universe to stop killing each other in absurd numbers long enough to actually fight the Marvel Universe?

 

[Abounder]

How could you convince the people in the 40k Universe to stop killing each other in absurd numbers long enough to actually fight the Marvel Universe?

Orks and Tyranids will eventually overrun everyone anyway

 

[HK-47]

How could you convince the people in the 40k Universe to stop killing each other in absurd numbers long enough to actually fight the Marvel Universe?

New faction, just another day at the office. Marvel heroes probably couldn't even get involved without beating the shit out of each other 5 times first.

 

[Slayven]

You say this "Warp" is full of gods and demons, a place of psych energy?

Elder Gods of Limbo, gone. No more mutants style.

 

[Coriolanus]

And that is why the Red Skull should have stolen Xavier's nuts instead.

 

[Slayven]

And that is why the Red Skull should have stolen Xavier's nuts instead.

And some Summer's juice. You know how those Summer's genes amp shit.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Marvel universe has and always will be ridden with OPed characters. There's just too many trump cards in the Marvel universe for Warhammer to stand a chance...but I would like to know how many space marines wolverine can take on at once...

 

[Schweinehund]

Marvel always wins, simply because their works are the epitomes of exaggerated power fantasies all neatly wrapped up in an impenetrable shitstorm of horrific continuity that oh-so conveniently allows their fanbase to 120% Perfect Counter any fictional challenger(s).

Warhammer 40K, despite also containing quite outlandish and fantastic concepts, is far more grounded and 'realistically' portrayed by its writers in the sense of how the majority of their conflicts, both large-scale and small, are resolved; mostly via martial or tactical prowess, with any fantastical elements being tastefully used as accentuating plot spices, as opposed to Marvel's trademark regularly-scheduled quantum blow-out handwaviums.

No fiction on Earth exists that can fight Marvel. The trick is to position yourself between two of Marvel's properties and provoke one of them into firing at you, upon which you sidestep and allow the projectile to strike the other Marvel property, triggering a civil dispute that you merely observe from the shade as the two defence forces tear into each other with hot friendly fire like enraged Doom imps. Only Marvel can 'win' against Marvel. That's the sad truth.

Basically,




...I guess if it came down to it, if both Marvel and WH40K universes were absolutely committed to fighting each other in a un-turncoat-able total-war type of scenario; both sides would utterly annihilate each other, until all that remained was a brief stalemate between Marvel's cosmic/supernatural beings and WH40K's Warp/Chaos Gods, just before some Marvel property inevitably sticks a celestial syringe up its own ass and extracts a bullshit marinade to soak the 41st Millenium in.

I dunno mang, thought robot is pretty dumb power wise. Cosmic shit (cosmic multiverse in Thought Robot's case) is the worst.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

So Warhammer 40k would destroy the Halo universe right?

What about Star Wars?

 

[MacNille]

So Warhammer 40k would destroy the Halo universe right?

What about Star Wars?

There would be nothing left when they are done,

 

[Violet_0]

If nothing else, this thread has piqued my interest in the 40k universe. I've only started reading some of the lore from the site that someone linked above, and it's pretty deep.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tzeentch

check out http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tzeentch

I've been refreshing my memory about the 40k universe and the sheer amount of content there dwarfs lexicanum. I read some articles about Genestealers and Cypher (one of the more interesting Chaos champions that I remember) and they have entire paragraphs about a subspecies of Genestealers that I never even heard about

like this funny, random bit of lore

Even stranger, whilst the survival instincts of the other Genestealer strains leads them to flee the oncoming arrival of their parent Hive Fleets, Ymgarl Genestealers actively seek them out, as if they hope to once again hear the comforting presence of the Hive Mind that has long been absent from their thoughts. They spread across the galaxy searching for these inhabited planets that lie in the path of an approaching Hive Fleet. However, the Hive Mind has no desire to reabsorb their biomass or genetic legacies, lest their known instability spread throughout all of the bioforms in the Hive Fleet. Once the target world has had all of its biomass devoured, the Ymgarl Genestealer brood is abandoned by the Hive Mind, forced once more to enter hibernation.

even the Tyranids, who only care about absorbing all biomass from a galaxy, are like fuck no let's ditch those freaks

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Orks and Tyranids will eventually overrun everyone anyway

i think the orks are supposed to be clearly the main force but they fight each other so much its futile to think they will ever overcome the other factions.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

So Warhammer 40k would destroy the Halo universe right?

What about Star Wars?

could crush them both. star trek too.

 

[Violet_0]

So Warhammer 40k would destroy the Halo universe right?

What about Star Wars?

we had that thread already
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418556

 

[spootime]

lol... what have I done? Finally decided to start and finsh Horus saga and ordered Horus box set. I guess, I know what I'm reading this month.

Can't wait to get my own box.

Nice dude, theres at least three readable books in there.

 

[spootime]

So Warhammer 40k would destroy the Halo universe right?

What about Star Wars?

Lol. Like one small exploratory fleet from warhammer would destroy everything in the halo universe.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Man even the Imperial Guard, mortal as they are, can clean up everything Marvel.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Man even the Imperial Guard, mortal as they are, can clean up everything Marvel.

the Kree Accuser Corps could kill the guard on its own, and I love the guard and its legions of soldiers, and mechanized divisions but they have the space marines for a reason , they cant deal with all those guys on their own.

 

[Maledict]

The idea that 40K is somehow more realising makes me giggle. Armies where commanders duel to the death on the battlefield using chainsaws, with no helmets and clear markings identifying them, whilst all around troops are shooting weapons with one tenth the range of modern earth weaponry.

That's one thing that bugs me about all these conversations re 40K - if you strip out the world killing weapons like Exterminatus, then the actual weaponry used by the imperium is on a magnitude weaker than current modern day warfare weapons. They seem to have a far lower range, and despite their cool names and described abilities have a very low mortality rate when used on standard, unarmoured troops. Combine that with the ridiculously small number of space marines actually in existance (far, far too small to actually do anything other than Exterminatus a planet in rebellion) and the Imperium is far weaker in gameplay than it describes itself.


To be fair, some of that is presumably down to gameplay balance - you read what Elder, or Necron, weapons actually do and there's no possible way a human or space marine could beat them on the battlefield. One side with machine guns with exploding bullets, the other side with monofilament webs, black hole generators, and weapons that destroy you on a molecular level - in science terms, Eldar, Necrons and probably Tau should be able to cleave through human armies (inc space marines) like they aren't there.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

The idea that 40K is somehow more realising makes me giggle. Armies where commanders duel to the death on the battlefield using chainsaws, with no helmets and clear markings identifying them, whilst all around troops are shooting weapons with one tenth the range of modern earth weaponry.

That's one thing that bugs me about all these conversations re 40K - if you strip out the world killing weapons like Exterminatus, then the actual weaponry used by the imperium is on a magnitude weaker than current modern day warfare weapons. They seem to have a far lower range, and despite their cool names and described abilities have a very low mortality rate when used on standard, unarmoured troops. Combine that with the ridiculously small number of space marines actually in existance (far, far too small to actually do anything other than Exterminatus a planet in rebellion) and the Imperium is far weaker in gameplay than it describes itself.


To be fair, some of that is presumably down to gameplay balance - you read what Elder, or Necron, weapons actually do and there's no possible way a human or space marine could beat them on the battlefield. One side with machine guns with exploding bullets, the other side with monofilament webs, black hole generators, and weapons that destroy you on a molecular level - in science terms, Eldar, Necrons and probably Tau should be able to cleave through human armies (inc space marines) like they aren't there.

whoa whoa one space marine chapter could probably take over earth as it is right now unless we wanted to uttlerly destroy ourselves to stop them. Your avg space marine shrugs off munitions from a tank...you know how much it was take to kill a squad of them? A squad that could deploy anywhere on earth and mual the shit out of our infrastructure. Outside of nuking ourselves we aren't stopping terminators. I assume you are talking about the space marines because the IG use mechanized divisions that would roll through the US like an offroad bike rally show. The sheer level of arms needed to stop space marines would leave us utterly decimated. Just because they have melee weapons mean nothing, a devastator squad isnt a force commander, a tactical squad is not an assault marine.

 

[Trojita]

Thats because it is a paranormal realm. Different rules. Franklin can just sever the connection.

Worst comes to worst, victor travels to the past and removes whatever caused the warp to appear.

Now im wondering what kinda shit Xavier could do to the astropaths if he still were alive.

Tbh Tzeentch is all hype. Dude been around for 20k+ years and still hasnt managed to get rid of nurgle.

The warp has existed since sentient life has existed. If anything the appearance of extremely powerful beings from marvel in the 40K universe, Good and Bad, would cause a whole host of instability in the warp. The warp is an extension of emotions and actions taken in the physical realm, a place of psychic energy. We could have a problem with people like Loki becoming servants of the forces of Chaos.

I think one of the only people that could probably even look at Slaanesh face to face would be Steve Rogers Captain America.

The Tyranids would be a massive problem for non-cosmic Marvel, way worse than the Brood.

 

[Parallax]

And that is why the Red Skull should have stolen Xavier's nuts instead.

And some Summer's juice. You know how those Summer's genes amp shit.

Jesus. Could you fucking imagine. Throw in some braddock and a sprinking of richards, and you have the most broken mutant known to man.

 

[Maledict]

whoa whoa one space marine chapter could probably take over earth as it is right now unless we wanted to uttlerly destroy ourselves to stop them. Your avg space marine shrugs off munitions from a tank...you know how much it was take to kill a squad of them? A squad that could deploy anywhere on earth and mual the shit out of our infrastructure. Outside of nuking ourselves we aren't stopping terminators. I assume you are talking about the space marines because the IG use mechanized divisions that would roll through the US like an offroad bike rally show. The sheer level of arms needed to stop space marines would leave us utterly decimated. Just because they have melee weapons mean nothing, a devastator squad isnt a force commander, a tactical squad is not an assault marine.

But they don't. A normal space marine has toughness 4, 1 wound, and a decent armour save but that's *it*. Tanks blow them up just as easily as unarmoured troops. Bolter guns are, by every comparable measurement, lower power than modern day weapons in terms of range and hitting power (their damage rate versus unarmoured humans, for example, is very low).

One space marine legion,. i.e. 1000 space marines, wouldn't be able to do anything against modern day earth without eliminating the planet. Even if they were as amazingly strong as you outline (and they aren't in gameplay terms, at all), 1000 marines doesn't get you anywhere against a planet with 6 billion people. There simply aren't enough of them to actually conquer the earth, never mind hold it, without resorting to weapons of mass destruction.

That's an flaw that a huge amount of sci-fi makes though - their numbers are often too small, and the logistics of conquering an entire world would be ferociously complicated and 1000 terminators isn't going to be able to do that simply due to the time it takes to actually get somewhere and do something. Conquering an entire planet would be astronomically difficult without the use of planet killing weapons (or the threat of them).

 

[Schweinehund]

So Warhammer 40k would destroy the Halo universe right?

What about Star Wars?

Dune vs Star Wars would be a better match.

 

[MistakenMobius]

But they don't. A normal space marine has toughness 4, 1 wound, and a decent armour save but that's *it*. Tanks blow them up just as easily as unarmoured troops. Bolter guns are, by every comparable measurement, lower power than modern day weapons in terms of range and hitting power (their damage rate versus unarmoured humans, for example, is very low).

One space marine legion,. i.e. 1000 space marines, wouldn't be able to do anything against modern day earth without eliminating the planet. Even if they were as amazingly strong as you outline (and they aren't in gameplay terms, at all), 1000 marines doesn't get you anywhere against a planet with 6 billion people. There simply aren't enough of them to actually conquer the earth, never mind hold it, without resorting to weapons of mass destruction.

That's an flaw that a huge amount of sci-fi makes though - their numbers are often too small, and the logistics of conquering an entire world would be ferociously complicated and 1000 terminators isn't going to be able to do that simply due to the time it takes to actually get somewhere and do something. Conquering an entire planet would be astronomically difficult without the use of planet killing weapons (or the threat of them).

That's called gameplay/story segregation

A legion is 10,000 space marine and is the pre heresy size. 1,000 space marine is a chapter.
Space marines are not their to keep and hold territories, that what the imperial guard is for.
Space Marines are there to decapitate the enemy of the Imperium

Space marine in 40k are elite troops and are actually really rare for the common man to meet.
Hell even Imperial Guard is an expeditionary corp and the local garrison are planetary militia that can vary from mediaeval soldier to system fleet with military mechanised forces

 

[spootime]

But they don't. A normal space marine has toughness 4, 1 wound, and a decent armour save but that's *it*. Tanks blow them up just as easily as unarmoured troops. Bolter guns are, by every comparable measurement, lower power than modern day weapons in terms of range and hitting power (their damage rate versus unarmoured humans, for example, is very low).

One space marine legion,. i.e. 1000 space marines, wouldn't be able to do anything against modern day earth without eliminating the planet. Even if they were as amazingly strong as you outline (and they aren't in gameplay terms, at all), 1000 marines doesn't get you anywhere against a planet with 6 billion people. There simply aren't enough of them to actually conquer the earth, never mind hold it, without resorting to weapons of mass destruction.

That's an flaw that a huge amount of sci-fi makes though - their numbers are often too small, and the logistics of conquering an entire world would be ferociously complicated and 1000 terminators isn't going to be able to do that simply due to the time it takes to actually get somewhere and do something. Conquering an entire planet would be astronomically difficult without the use of planet killing weapons (or the threat of them).

Couldn't you teleport 2 terminators into every seat of government on the planet at once from orbit?

 

[DonasaurusRex]

But they don't. A normal space marine has toughness 4, 1 wound, and a decent armour save but that's *it*. Tanks blow them up just as easily as unarmoured troops. Bolter guns are, by every comparable measurement, lower power than modern day weapons in terms of range and hitting power (their damage rate versus unarmoured humans, for example, is very low).

One space marine legion,. i.e. 1000 space marines, wouldn't be able to do anything against modern day earth without eliminating the planet. Even if they were as amazingly strong as you outline (and they aren't in gameplay terms, at all), 1000 marines doesn't get you anywhere against a planet with 6 billion people. There simply aren't enough of them to actually conquer the earth, never mind hold it, without resorting to weapons of mass destruction.

That's an flaw that a huge amount of sci-fi makes though - their numbers are often too small, and the logistics of conquering an entire world would be ferociously complicated and 1000 terminators isn't going to be able to do that simply due to the time it takes to actually get somewhere and do something. Conquering an entire planet would be astronomically difficult without the use of planet killing weapons (or the threat of them).

well for one I dont think the space marines would try and capture and hold territory they would be there to flatten opposition. Guns weapons, armor ..well theres a crap ton of them but i think its fair to say an ar 15 isn't stopping a space marine, let alone a tactical, or assault squad that will be on top of conventional forces. The problem with teh space marines is they will be in our back yard , we have plenty of powerful weapons yes, but will we use them on ourselves? Because from orbit the space marines have the ability to avoid the risk of getting in our faces. They can circumvent our navy and make our air force useless unless we decide we are going to bomb ourselves. So yes i feel thousands of superhumans in power armor landing from space could effectively maul our infrastructure and send the rest into decay from neglect. They don't fight conventional wars, the IG does, and they would rock our shit too, because again they are coming from space their base is some imperial space cruiser. They could have our nation dark quickly and the cost to stop them would be our society.